Re: Carbs and Physical Activity

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>no doubt sugar is total garbage that does very real damage beyond

>glycemic load btw, BUT, did the rise of diabetes not also coincide with the

>sudden increased consumption of PUFAs (via processed vegetable and seed

>oils)??

Exactly. It seems that sugar and excess PUFA consumption BOTH cause and/or

contribute to diabetes. I just couldn't resist getting in a little dig at

, even in absentia. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

I get lots of hard-to-find books by asking for an inter-library loan at my

public library. It's free. At least, that's how it works in Florida.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: Suze Fisher

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 7:40 AM

Subject: RE: Carbs and Physical Activity

>>>>Amazon lists six books for him, but five are out of print, and it's

unclear

whether any treat on diet extensively.

The Price-Pottenger Foundation has at least one of his books, but it's only

available for perusing in their library.

One reference I found sounds promising, if, that is, you can track down a

used copy somewhere: The Fat of the Land, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, The

MACMillan Company, 1956.

Otherwise it looks like we're limited to secondary sources like NAPD,

" Strong Medicine " by Dr Blake F. son, MD. and the like.

-------------->Thanks . I bet " My Life with the Eskimos " might have some

interesting info on their nutrition as well. But " The Fat of the Land "

definitely sounds intriguing! I also saw in my web search just now that some

of his books are out of print. He seems to have been a prolific writer as

i've come across a list of titles of his books that's quite long! (barnes

and noble) you can even buy a $40 book that's a *bibliography* of his works!

oh wait a minute, i just found a reference that says " the fat of the land "

has been re-named from " not by bread alone " and barnes and noble has that

one. this source also says this is the definitive book on pemmican! it's

mine - i just ordered it and also " My Life with the Eskimos "

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

-

[Guest guest]

At 12:54 PM 8/15/02 -0400, you wrote:

>-

>

>>That's true whether it's white rice, potatoes, white bread, pasta, or

>>dumplings.  It's *probably* even true for sugar.

>

>Has a truly healthy culture EVER been observed making use of white bread,

>pasta and/or sugar as a staple?

>

>

>-

I honestly don't see how potatoes can be included with grains except for the

glycemic level. It has no phytates and if the peel is left on the minerals are

not removed. Kind of my beef with the nutrition world doing this grouping.

Personally, yes they have been hybridized from what the Aztec grew but in the

state they are eaten they are an unprocessed food. All the others are not

whole

foods and even in their unprocessed forms give me a glycemic/digestive

reaction. Potatoes are native to this continent and all the others are not.

Likely why with my ancestry potatoes are the most tolerable.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>I honestly don't see how potatoes can be included with grains except for the

>glycemic level. It has no phytates and if the peel is left on the minerals are

>not removed.

They're not the same as grains, but if anything they're more

fattening. The important thing to keep in mind, I think, is that modern

starchy crops bear extremely little resemblance to foods we evolved

on. They're a product of thousands of years of highly selective breeding,

and as such have been changed to contain a much larger amount of energy

(starch) relative to other nutrients such as minerals. The idea that

anything is OK as long as it's a whole food is fallacious. Just look at

hybrids and GM foods. Now, I could be wrong about potatoes (and I expect

that they're probably OK in small quantities for truly healthy people) but

I don't think so.

-

[Guest guest]

At 03:25 PM 8/15/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Remember, it's not what's *in* the foods that's the problem; it's

>what's *NOT* in the *diet* that's the problem.

>

>

I agree wholeheartedly with most of that.

But what's *in* the food can be VERY problematic when it is phytates, lectins,

gluten (I still haven't heard of any healthy societies that eat wheat!).

Rice is a really interesting case point because it seems so harmless (other

than

it's lack of nutrients, which, as you point out, you can get from the stuff you

put on TOP of the rice) and the glycemic factor (which, as you also point out,

doesn't seem to be a problem for the populations that eat it).

Heidi

[Guest guest]

>>>>> The idea that

anything is OK as long as it's a whole food is fallacious. Just look at

hybrids and GM foods.

------->I (probably wrongly) assumed that it goes without saying (on this

list, at least) that GM foods are not what i'm referring to when discussing

the health benefits of *whole foods.* I'm referring to 'traditional' whole

foods. i realize that heirloom breeds are not so common anymore, but are, as

a rule, more nutritious than hybrids. so, i guess i need be sure to qualify

my statements regarding whole foods when i post about them. I certainly

didn't mean that loading up on GM and hybrid stuff was especially healthy!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>I'm referring to 'traditional' whole

>foods.

Understood, but even with that restriction, are all " traditional " foods

good? WAP found lots of traditional cultures which didn't meet his

standards for optimum health, and obviously none of them were consuming

modern hybrids let alone GM foods.

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

> FWIW, butter is a concentrated source of butyric acid - a 4 carbon (short

> chain) fatty acid, so also should burn up rather quickly as opposed to

being

> stored.

Butter is only about 2.6% butyric acid by weight, according to the USDA

database. Speaking of which, I've always wondered--what's the difference in

calorie density between fats composed of different fatty acids? I'd expect,

for example, an EPA triglyceride to have more calories per gram than a

butyric acid triglyceride, but how much? There's a fat substitute called

Benefat which works somewhat along these lines, replacing one or two

longer-chain tryglycerides with acetic, propionic, or butyric acid, but I

couldn't find figures for pure butyric acid. I assume that the reason that

they don't

http://ingredients.danisco.com/products/detail.jsp?pid=2_1_9

I checked the USDA database and it seems to confirm this. Salmon oil, with

all its very long chain fatty acids, has 9.02 calories per gram, while

coconut oil has only 8.62.

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

> ^^^^^dang! i always grossly misspell that! it's actually

" Triacylglycerol. "

It obviously wants to be misspelled.

[Guest guest]

You should be able to get an inter-library loan from any public library

where you have a library card. The further afield they have to look to get

it to you, the longer you will have to wait to get it. It shouldn't be a

problem unless the book is very rare or a first edition, etc. --- I'm a

librarian.

Robin

From: " Darmohray " <edarmohray@...>

Reply-

< >

Subject: Re: Carbs and Physical Activity

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:40:53 -0400

I get lots of hard-to-find books by asking for an inter-library loan at my

public library. It's free. At least, that's how it works in Florida.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: Suze Fisher

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 7:40 AM

Subject: RE: Carbs and Physical Activity

>>>>Amazon lists six books for him, but five are out of print, and it's

unclear

whether any treat on diet extensively.

The Price-Pottenger Foundation has at least one of his books, but it's

only

available for perusing in their library.

One reference I found sounds promising, if, that is, you can track down a

used copy somewhere: The Fat of the Land, Vilhjalmur Stefansson, The

MACMillan Company, 1956.

Otherwise it looks like we're limited to secondary sources like NAPD,

" Strong Medicine " by Dr Blake F. son, MD. and the like.

-------------->Thanks . I bet " My Life with the Eskimos " might have

some

interesting info on their nutrition as well. But " The Fat of the Land "

definitely sounds intriguing! I also saw in my web search just now that

some

of his books are out of print. He seems to have been a prolific writer as

i've come across a list of titles of his books that's quite long! (barnes

and noble) you can even buy a $40 book that's a *bibliography* of his

works!

oh wait a minute, i just found a reference that says " the fat of the

land "

has been re-named from " not by bread alone " and barnes and noble has that

one. this source also says this is the definitive book on pemmican! it's

mine - i just ordered it and also " My Life with the Eskimos "

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

-

[Guest guest]

Kat-

>I try to do raw dairy most of the time, but it gets to be a bit much. Our

>health food store sells a quart of raw milk for about $5.00, and they just

>got in the raw cream = 1 PINT for $9.99! Wish I had a cow!

I pay a lot for raw dairy, but all the prices I've heard about at health

food stores -- like a pint of cream for $10 -- are completely and totally

insane. If you can find a farm near you which sells raw pastured dairy,

you'll save a ton of money. If you can't, well, that's a good argument for

political activism. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

I agree, these prices are insane, and until about 6 months ago it was

against the law to sell raw milk here in LA. We finally won that one, but

the restrictions on the farmers make the prices so high. Seems weird how we

have to pay more for them Not to do something!

I live in LA so there are no farms around, we can't even have a goat in our

backyard even if we wanted to.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " Idol " <Idol@...>

< >

Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 11:21 AM

Subject: Re: Carbs and Physical Activity

> Kat-

>

> >I try to do raw dairy most of the time, but it gets to be a bit much.

Our

> >health food store sells a quart of raw milk for about $5.00, and they

just

> >got in the raw cream = 1 PINT for $9.99! Wish I had a cow!

>

> I pay a lot for raw dairy, but all the prices I've heard about at health

> food stores -- like a pint of cream for $10 -- are completely and totally

> insane. If you can find a farm near you which sells raw pastured dairy,

> you'll save a ton of money. If you can't, well, that's a good argument

for

> political activism. <g>

>

>

>

>

> -

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

>What is your

>background in?

An uneasy mix of art, engineering and computer science. <g>

>Or are you saying that fast

>paced aerobic exercise is not a good thing at all?

>If this is the case, I should do very well on this

>program... I hate aerobic exercise!!!

Basically yes, it looks to me like the singular goal of boosting the heart

rate is misplaced. There's nothing wrong with walking or sports, or even

training in the particular maneuvers and skills required for your sport(s)

of choice, but fitness training itself is something else again.

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