RE: ball canning jars and fermented veggies

[Guest guest]

Hi Suzie,

I usually make small batches and share..so they never last more than a couple of

month in the refrigerator. I had one that slipped to the back of the

refrigerator and it was over 6 months before I opened it, and it tasted great.

I fermented vegetable juice and one bottle was in the refrigerator for over 6

months (was great when I got around to it), one was stored in a cool area but

not refrigerated, and it was horrible after about 3 months.

It will be interesting to hear if anyone else has experience with fermenting,

canning and storing unheated veggies.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Suze Fisher

Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 12:24 PM

Subject: ball canning jars and fermented veggies

i just bought 2 dozen ball canning jars - a dozen of them with wide mouths.

OK, i want to ferment veggies over the next 6 weeks that i hope to last me

through a good portion of the winter. the growing season here in maine will

be ending soon and i want to take advantage of the delicious and nutritious

produce i get here. the idea of eating tasteless produce shipped in from CA

for the long maine winter is unappealing

so, for those of you experienced in fermenting veggies...about how long can

i expect them to last? i'm starting out tonight with kefirkraut (sauerkraut

made with kefir whey). any idea how long it will keep for? any suggestions

for fermented veggies that last a long time? i won't be able to get local

produce again until next june, unfortunately, so will ferment as much as i

can in the next month or so IF they will store well for a number of months.

thanks for any helpful hints!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 03:24 PM 8/11/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>so, for those of you experienced in fermenting veggies...about how long can

>i expect them to last? i'm starting out tonight with kefirkraut (sauerkraut

>made with kefir whey). any idea how long it will keep for? any suggestions

>for fermented veggies that last a long time? i won't be able to get local

>produce again until next june, unfortunately, so will ferment as much as i

>can in the next month or so IF they will store well for a number of months.

>

>

>thanks for any helpful hints!

According to my Mom, the kraut barrel was on the porch all

fall/winter/spring, and the kids grabbed handfuls whenever they felt like

it! She loved grandma's kraut barrel. They may have used more salt though.

She said it wasn't really good until it was a few months old.

A kraut-making group makes a big batch and then freezes it in baggies. I

don't think freezing would kill the probiotics, and it's a convenient

solution. They let it go a fairly long time in the garage though (a couple

of months?) I think cabbage goes slower, and the kraut people use more

salt. I suspect they were putting it up in the fall though, and in an

outside garage it wouldn't be very warm.

I've never had kimchi go bad in the fridge, and I've kept it a year or so

(commercial kimchi: mine doesn't last that long). I imagine at room temp it

would get very sour, maybe mushy. 50 degrees would be ideal, as in a root

cellar. I've not tried keeping it at room temp for a long time. The French

book mentions the vegies were stored " in the cellar " -- in canning jars --

for a long time (all winter, probably?). The Koreans buried their kimchi

jars out in the yard for the winter. Sally says they stay good " 6 months "

in the fridge, but that may be a quality issue, not a food safety issue

(i.e. how crispy it stays?). Or a legal issue? But I keep mine in the

fridge: it's convenient, no dust, no flies, etc., and haven't experimented

with warmer temps.

I can only say from my wine and beer experience that a lot of this stuff

stays just fine at room temp once it is acidic. With wine and beer the big

problem is lactobacilli and acetobacter making it too sour, and sometimes

mold. But with lids on, that isn't a big problem. So I'd think the issue

would be if it gets too sour or mushy, and the amount of salt probably

plays a big part.

>

Heidi

[Guest guest]

>>>>According to my Mom, the kraut barrel was on the porch all

fall/winter/spring, and the kids grabbed handfuls whenever they felt like

it! She loved grandma's kraut barrel. They may have used more salt though.

She said it wasn't really good until it was a few months old.

-------->what a wonderful image!

>>>>>A kraut-making group makes a big batch and then freezes it in baggies.

I

don't think freezing would kill the probiotics, and it's a convenient

solution.

---------->OK, i was wondering about this....have you, or has anyone here,

frozen their sauerkraut or other fermented veggies? if so, what were the

results?

>>>They let it go a fairly long time in the garage though (a couple

of months?) I think cabbage goes slower, and the kraut people use more

salt. I suspect they were putting it up in the fall though, and in an

outside garage it wouldn't be very warm.

---------->hmmm...i know i don't have a lot of space in my fridge for a

bunch of jars...but i DO have a shed. it gets to be whatever the outside

temp is. i might try that if i end up making big batches this fall/winter.

>>>>I can only say from my wine and beer experience that a lot of this stuff

stays just fine at room temp once it is acidic. With wine and beer the big

problem is lactobacilli and acetobacter making it too sour, and sometimes

mold. But with lids on, that isn't a big problem. So I'd think the issue

would be if it gets too sour or mushy, and the amount of salt probably

plays a big part.

----->thanks heidi! i think my next thing will be kombucha, but after that

i'd like to take a shot at beer.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Hi Suzie,

-----> " Suzie " ? oh well, it beats " suez. "

>>I fermented vegetable juice and one bottle was in the refrigerator for

over 6 months (was great when I got around to it)

--------->Kat, i'd like to kefir-whey ferment some veggie juice. do you

ferment just the juice, or do you add the pulp back in and ferment it all

together? do you add anything additional for the bacteria/yeasts to consume?

what ratio of kefir-whey to juice do you use? do you have a preference for

which veggies you like to use in the juice ferment?

thanks!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> ---------->OK, i was wondering about this....have you, or has anyone

> here,

> frozen their sauerkraut or other fermented veggies? if so, what were

> the

> results?

>

Suze,

I purchase my raw fermented veggies from a health food store. The brand

is Biolacto/Deep Root, a company in Quebec.

As they make their various (sauerkraut, carrots, beets, red cabbage,

daikon) fermented veggies seasonally, they do freeze them so they can be

distributed throughout the year. Their website says that freezing will

not alter the nutritional value (or the taste, color, & texture - if I

remember correctly).

Their website is interesting: www.biolacto.com .

Another nice thing is that you can order from them and they'll ship

directly to you. Until I start making my own, this is a convenient way

to get raw fermented veggies. It is a lot more expensive this way,

though...

They also sell sauerkraut juice. I wonder if that would be a good thing

to add to my beet kvass as it always gets mold?

[Guest guest]

> ---------->OK, i was wondering about this....have you, or has anyone

> here,

> frozen their sauerkraut or other fermented veggies? if so, what were

> the

> results?

>

Suze,

I purchase my raw fermented veggies from a health food store. The brand

is Biolacto/Deep Root, a company in Quebec.

As they make their various (sauerkraut, carrots, beets, red cabbage,

daikon) fermented veggies seasonally, they do freeze them so they can be

distributed throughout the year. Their website says that freezing will

not alter the nutritional value (or the taste, color, & texture - if I

remember correctly).

----------------->oooohhh....good info! i checked out the site -

interesting! this means i can make up big batches of fermented veggies and

freeze for winter. haha! no more tasteless, wilted california produce *this*

winter!

>>They also sell sauerkraut juice. I wonder if that would be a good thing

to add to my beet kvass as it always gets mold?

-------------->sounds like it.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 10:19 PM 8/12/02 -0400, you wrote:

>Suze,

>I purchase my raw fermented veggies from a health food store.  The brand

>is Biolacto/Deep Root, a company in Quebec.

>

>As they make their various (sauerkraut, carrots, beets, red cabbage,

>daikon) fermented veggies seasonally, they do freeze them so they can be

>distributed throughout the year.  Their website says that freezing will

>not alter the nutritional value (or the taste, color, & texture - if I

>remember correctly).

Suze wrote:

>----------------->oooohhh....good info! i checked out the site -

>interesting! this means i can make up big batches of fermented veggies and

>freeze for winter. haha! no more tasteless, wilted california produce *this*

>winter!

Somewhere I remember reading that freezing yogurt destroys the probiotic

bacteria so I never have unless for ice cream. I'm sure Biolacto has tested

their's frozen and there may be a difference between freezing on yogurt

culture

and lecto fermented culture.

Think I'll freeze yogurt then try to culture a batch from it after.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>>>>>Somewhere I remember reading that freezing yogurt destroys the

probiotic

bacteria so I never have unless for ice cream. I'm sure Biolacto has tested

their's frozen and there may be a difference between freezing on yogurt

culture

and lecto fermented culture.

Think I'll freeze yogurt then try to culture a batch from it after.

---->Wanita, kefir grains can be frozen and then thawed and they still

produce kefir! therefore, some bacteria apparently survive freezing.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...