RE: note to self...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/13/02 10:34:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

edarmohray@... writes:

> Somebody on a Kombucha chat group reported that a case of Kombucha he had

> been brewing exploded in his kitchen. He said that glass shards had stuck

in

> the wall everywhere, and that if he had been there at the time he would

> surely have been killed. He recommended leaving some air space at the top

of

> the jars, but, from what you say, Suze, that wouldn't work either. Anybody

> got any suggestions?

> Ed

The NT recipe says to cover a glass bowl with a dishtowl, suspended by strips

of masking tape.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Somebody on a Kombucha chat group reported that a case of Kombucha he had been

brewing exploded in his kitchen. He said that glass shards had stuck in the

wall everywhere, and that if he had been there at the time he would surely have

been killed. He recommended leaving some air space at the top of the jars, but,

from what you say, Suze, that wouldn't work either. Anybody got any suggestions?

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: Suze Fisher

Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:27 PM

Subject: note to self...

pay closer attention to kat when she's talking about exploding jars.

heh, just went to open up my 1/4 full kefir kraut jar and the the lid

literally exploded off the jar with a big *whooompf* when i just started to

turn it! scared the heck out of the min pin. i thought a tight lid would be

OK on a jar that was only 1/4 full of kefir kraut...NOT.

don't try this at home kids...keep the lid loose.

(thanking my lucky stars the *jar* didn't explode)

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

The problem with that method, is that Kombucha is a naturally carbonated

drink, and without the fizz, it's like any carbonated drink without the

carbonation. The trick is to get the carbonation, without the explosion.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@...

Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:37 PM

Subject: Re: note to self...

In a message dated 8/13/02 10:34:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

edarmohray@... writes:

> Somebody on a Kombucha chat group reported that a case of Kombucha he had

> been brewing exploded in his kitchen. He said that glass shards had stuck

in

> the wall everywhere, and that if he had been there at the time he would

> surely have been killed. He recommended leaving some air space at the top

of

> the jars, but, from what you say, Suze, that wouldn't work either. Anybody

> got any suggestions?

> Ed

The NT recipe says to cover a glass bowl with a dishtowl, suspended by strips

of masking tape.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

" " < >

Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 7:27 PM

Subject: note to self...

> pay closer attention to kat when she's talking about exploding jars.

>

> heh, just went to open up my 1/4 full kefir kraut jar and the the lid

> literally exploded off the jar with a big *whooompf* when i just started

to

> turn it! scared the heck out of the min pin. i thought a tight lid would

be

> OK on a jar that was only 1/4 full of kefir kraut...NOT.

So what, exactly, was in the jar?

[Guest guest]

At 10:26 PM 8/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Somebody on a Kombucha chat group reported that a case of Kombucha he had

>been brewing exploded in his kitchen. He said that glass shards had stuck

>in the wall everywhere, and that if he had been there at the time he would

>surely have been killed. He recommended leaving some air space at the top

>of the jars, but, from what you say, Suze, that wouldn't work either.

>Anybody got any suggestions?

>Ed

It depends on the jar, and the lid. The plastic lids that I get from GEM

cultures (and the ones that come with commercial kimchi), don't really seal

all that tight and will allow gas to escape. The Kimchi jars are also made

out of super-thick glass. I like to save them!

I bottled some cider I wanted fizzy in beer " EZ-cap " bottles, and they seem

to 'pop' if they get too much pressure (the gasket gives, with a loud

scream). But traditionally, if you want fizzy beer, you let it ferment dry

first, then add a measured amount of sugar. So it produces a measured

amount of gas.

If you don't want or need fizz, then just leave the lid a bit loose.

Traditional kimchi and kraut were NOT made in hermetically sealed

containers (they didn't exist back then!). The process is anaerobic, but

the water and leaves etc. on top seem to make it anaerobic enough. Shoot, I

had some cabbage out salting too long and it started to ferment right out

in the air.

To get fizz in kefir -- well, for kefir drinks I've been cheating -- I just

add some fizz water, then I don't have to worry about it. There are so many

people and kids running around here I don't want to deal with gassy jars of

a mixture of an unknown pressure. I get fizzy kimchi even if the lid is

loose (though kimchi does not develop pressure without the kefir whey), if

I put fish in it and daikon radish.

>

Heidi

[Guest guest]

So is the kombucha taste everyone raves about only acquired by sealing the

kombucha? What do other folks on this list do? Does anyone have a taste

they love, apple cider-ish, etc, from using a dishtowel? I'm going to make

some for the first time when I get back from vacation; I don't want to raise

my expectations on the taste too much higher than the results will be.

Chris

In a message dated 8/13/02 11:25:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

edarmohray@... writes:

> The problem with that method, is that Kombucha is a naturally

> carbonated drink, and without the fizz, it's like any carbonated drink

> without the carbonation. The trick is to get the carbonation, without the

> explosion.

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/14/02 7:49:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ------->the funny thing is, in regards to sauerkraut, NT says to cover the

> jar *tightly* with a lid. Does this work okay for regular ol' *whey*?

>

> is *kefir* whey so much more combustible than regular whey? then darn jar

> was only 1/4 full! maybe it's because *my* kefir whey tends to be quite

> acidic..?

could it be because kefir is a combo of yeast and bacteria while whey is all

lacto buggies? i know yeasts tend to produce gasceous waste, because i've

known people who worked and bakeries and used to poke holes in bread bubbles

to inhale the gas and get high (*rolling eyes*) seems that could have

somethin to do with it...

chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

> pay closer attention to kat when she's talking about exploding jars.

>

> heh, just went to open up my 1/4 full kefir kraut jar and the the lid

> literally exploded off the jar with a big *whooompf* when i just started

to

> turn it! scared the heck out of the min pin. i thought a tight lid would

be

> OK on a jar that was only 1/4 full of kefir kraut...NOT.

>>>So what, exactly, was in the jar?

--------->chopped cabbage, kefir whey, caraway seeds, sea salt.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> the jars, but, from what you say, Suze, that wouldn't work either. Anybody

> got any suggestions?

> Ed

>>>>The NT recipe says to cover a glass bowl with a dishtowl, suspended by

strips

of masking tape.

------->the funny thing is, in regards to sauerkraut, NT says to cover the

jar *tightly* with a lid. Does this work okay for regular ol' *whey*?

is *kefir* whey so much more combustible than regular whey? then darn jar

was only 1/4 full! maybe it's because *my* kefir whey tends to be quite

acidic..?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I ferment a LOT with kefir whey, and as I told before I had an explosion.

But it was because I did not listen to myself, and filled the bottle almost

full.

Since then I have noticed that the pressure builds somewhat, and will make

the whoosh noise, but I don't believe it will explode if your bottle has 1/3

air room (meaning don't fill the bottle more than 2/3 full). At least I

have not had any problems.

On my sauerkraut and other fermented veggies, I make the bottle air tight.

The air is filled with yeasts (that is why sour dough bread tastes different

in different locations!), and I want my veggies to have the taste I put in

and avoid these air borne yeast and of course unfriendly bacteria and mold.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:59 AM

Subject: RE: note to self...

> > the jars, but, from what you say, Suze, that wouldn't work either.

Anybody

> > got any suggestions?

> > Ed

>

> >>>>The NT recipe says to cover a glass bowl with a dishtowl, suspended by

> strips

> of masking tape.

>

>

> ------->the funny thing is, in regards to sauerkraut, NT says to cover the

> jar *tightly* with a lid. Does this work okay for regular ol' *whey*?

>

> is *kefir* whey so much more combustible than regular whey? then darn jar

> was only 1/4 full! maybe it's because *my* kefir whey tends to be quite

> acidic..?

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have found that Kombucha is an acquired taste. If it is nice and sweet,

it has not been sitting long enough and will not have all the healing

benefits that we are after. 7 to 10 days is recommended.

As far as explosion....Kombucha is one fermented drink that NEEDS air. I

use a wide mouth one gallon jar, fill with tea and Kombucha mushroom, slip

on a paper coffee filter and secure it. You can secure it with rubber

bands, which is the easiest. I now make Kombucha on a regular basis so I

cut out the middle of the lid and screw it on over the paper coffee filter.

Wait 7 to 10 days and there you have it!

* 7 days in hot weather and 10 days in cold weather works for me.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:37 AM

Subject: Re: note to self...

> So is the kombucha taste everyone raves about only acquired by sealing the

> kombucha? What do other folks on this list do? Does anyone have a taste

> they love, apple cider-ish, etc, from using a dishtowel? I'm going to

make

> some for the first time when I get back from vacation; I don't want to

raise

> my expectations on the taste too much higher than the results will be.

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi Suze,

You wrote " perhaps there's a great variance in pressure due to a variance in

kefir whey - acidity, milk source, bacterial and yeast colony compositions,

etc..? "

Could be. Was your whey clear or was it cloudy (still had some milk in it)?

Also, I don't use all whey because I also use salt and it seems like such a

waste. To one gallon jar (filled 3/4 full of veggies), I pound the veggies

with a thick wooden stick (this actually makes them crisper), so there is

some liquid from that, add 1 cup clear whey, and if I need more liquid (I

usually do unless it is cabbage which pounds down to have enough liquid) I

add purified water.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 6:07 AM

Subject: RE: note to self...

> >On my sauerkraut and other fermented veggies, I make the bottle air

tight.

> The air is filled with yeasts (that is why sour dough bread tastes

different

> in different locations!), and I want my veggies to have the taste I put in

> and avoid these air borne yeast and of course unfriendly bacteria and

mold.

>

> --->weird...my lid literally exploded off the jar and landed on the floor.

> the jar was only 1/4 full of cabbage! perhaps there's a great variance in

> pressure due to a variance in kefir whey - acidity, milk source, bacterial

> and yeast colony compositions, etc..?

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>On my sauerkraut and other fermented veggies, I make the bottle air tight.

The air is filled with yeasts (that is why sour dough bread tastes different

in different locations!), and I want my veggies to have the taste I put in

and avoid these air borne yeast and of course unfriendly bacteria and mold.

--->weird...my lid literally exploded off the jar and landed on the floor.

the jar was only 1/4 full of cabbage! perhaps there's a great variance in

pressure due to a variance in kefir whey - acidity, milk source, bacterial

and yeast colony compositions, etc..?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>I have found that Kombucha is an acquired taste.

-------->hmmm...i wonder if there's a a wide range of 'tastiness' in

kombucha...because the first time i tried it, i LOVED it. So did my friend

who had never tried it before either - she couldn't stop drinking it! we're

both now eager to get kombucha mushrooms!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>You wrote " perhaps there's a great variance in pressure due to a variance

in

kefir whey - acidity, milk source, bacterial and yeast colony compositions,

etc..? "

Could be. Was your whey clear or was it cloudy (still had some milk in it)?

---->cloudy. i never seem to be able to get *pure* clear whey from my kefir.

Also, I don't use all whey because I also use salt and it seems like such a

waste. To one gallon jar (filled 3/4 full of veggies), I pound the veggies

with a thick wooden stick (this actually makes them crisper), so there is

some liquid from that, add 1 cup clear whey, and if I need more liquid (I

usually do unless it is cabbage which pounds down to have enough liquid) I

add purified water.

---------->does the liquid *cover* the veggies? in this first batch, mine

originally covered the cabbage, but as the cabbage expanded (all the way to

the top of the jar) it apparently absorbed lots of the liquid and so now

it's no longer covered. i poured a little more whey in after 48 hours, but

it's still not covered. maybe i should add some water? i also don't have a

weight on it. where do you get your quartz crystals?

thanks!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>the funny thing is, in regards to sauerkraut, NT says to cover the

>jar *tightly* with a lid. Does this work okay for regular ol' *whey*?

Yep. Regular whey doesn't have yeast, which produce gas in copious

quantities. Kefir whey can be very dangerous for fermenting foods in

sealed containers. I haven't experimented, so I couldn't tell you which

type makes for better-tasting fermented food, but if you prefer kefir whey,

maybe you could buy or build some sort of pressure lock that will let

excess gas out while still maintaining a seal for carbonation (if that's

what you're going for).

-

[Guest guest]

At 09:07 AM 8/14/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> >On my sauerkraut and other fermented veggies, I make the bottle air tight.

>The air is filled with yeasts (that is why sour dough bread tastes different

>in different locations!), and I want my veggies to have the taste I put in

>and avoid these air borne yeast and of course unfriendly bacteria and mold.

In beer-making we use a water-lock -- it lets gas out, but not air in. I

think a slightly loose cap does the

same thing. My caps don't really seal all that well, and some of the caps

are designed to " give " when

the pressure gets too great, which I think is a great compromise too. Beer

bottles are that way,

so are the GEM caps.

If you use a lid that sits down on a jar, and the jar is producing gases,

then there is

a positive pressure inside, and the gases produced are probably CO2 anyway

(heavier than

air), so they will push the air out and it's unlikely air from outside will

come in.

But it's an individual decision. I've been playing around with

yeast-ferment for

a long time, and they can produce a LOT of gas. Kefir has yeast, and so I'm

less trustful of it in a really closed container.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>that's EXACTLY what i'm going for! LOVE the carbonation! are there

>jars made especially for this?

Beer-making equipment is made for this, but I don't know whether it's

available or can be adapted for mason or ball jars, or even for wide-mouth

jars period.

-

[Guest guest]

>the funny thing is, in regards to sauerkraut, NT says to cover the

>jar *tightly* with a lid. Does this work okay for regular ol' *whey*?

>>>>Yep. Regular whey doesn't have yeast, which produce gas in copious

quantities. Kefir whey can be very dangerous for fermenting foods in

sealed containers. I haven't experimented, so I couldn't tell you which

type makes for better-tasting fermented food, but if you prefer kefir whey,

maybe you could buy or build some sort of pressure lock that will let

excess gas out while still maintaining a seal for carbonation (if that's

what you're going for).

----->that's EXACTLY what i'm going for! LOVE the carbonation! are there

jars made especially for this?

Heidi, did you mention some type of beer bottles that are made for this? do

you know if there are mason/canning jars also made for this? i'd love to

retain the carbonation without killing myself or my dogs with exploding jars

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

---Maybe it's a function of altitude? Attitude? Dennis

In @y..., Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...> wrote:

> At 09:07 AM 8/14/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> > >On my sauerkraut and other fermented veggies, I make the bottle

air tight.

>

> If you use a lid that sits down on a jar, and the jar is producing

gases,

> then there is

> a positive pressure inside, and the gases produced are probably CO2

anyway

> (heavier than

> air), so they will push the air out and it's unlikely air from

outside will

> come in.

>

> But it's an individual decision. I've been playing around with

> yeast-ferment for

> a long time, and they can produce a LOT of gas. Kefir has yeast,

and so I'm

> less trustful of it in a really closed container.

>

>

>

> Heidi Schuppenhauer

> Trillium Custom Software Inc.

> heidis@t...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> The problem with that method, is that Kombucha is a naturally

carbonated drink, and without the fizz, it's like any carbonated drink

without the carbonation. The trick is to get the carbonation, without the

explosion.

I had a bottle of Russian kvass I got the the Wise Traditions conference in

April, which we carted home. It was in a 2 liter plastic bottle. When the

pressure built up too much I would open it and release the pressure, but

since it was a living culture it soon got bubbly again. I'd guess that once

it's bottled tight you have to watch it. It's probably easier to tell with

the plastic bottle, because it is flexible.

Kris

>

>

> In a message dated 8/13/02 10:34:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> edarmohray@... writes:

>

> > Somebody on a Kombucha chat group reported that a case of Kombucha he

had

> > been brewing exploded in his kitchen. He said that glass shards had

stuck

> in

> > the wall everywhere, and that if he had been there at the time he

would

> > surely have been killed. He recommended leaving some air space at the

top

> of

> > the jars, but, from what you say, Suze, that wouldn't work either.

Anybody

> > got any suggestions?

> > Ed

>

> The NT recipe says to cover a glass bowl with a dishtowl, suspended by

strips

> of masking tape.

>

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is

a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds,

and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight

of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable

to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any

creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of

the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I ferment a LOT with kefir whey, and as I told before I had an explosion.

> But it was because I did not listen to myself, and filled the bottle

almost

> full.

>

> Since then I have noticed that the pressure builds somewhat, and will make

> the whoosh noise, but I don't believe it will explode if your bottle has

1/3

> air room (meaning don't fill the bottle more than 2/3 full). At least I

> have not had any problems.

>

> On my sauerkraut and other fermented veggies, I make the bottle air tight.

> The air is filled with yeasts (that is why sour dough bread tastes

different

> in different locations!), and I want my veggies to have the taste I put in

> and avoid these air borne yeast and of course unfriendly bacteria and

mold.

Since pressure builds up inside the jar, I wouldn't think you would have to

worry about contamination from outside the jar if the lid is loose enough to

let the gas build up escape. I just made peach chutney with kefir whey and

filled it to the top, like someone suggested, screwed the lid on tight and

then backed off about an eight of a turn, and set the jar in a bowl to catch

any drips that bubbled over. So far it is behaving nicely.

Kris

[Guest guest]

At 01:26 PM 8/14/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Heidi, did you mention some type of beer bottles that are made for this? do

>you know if there are mason/canning jars also made for this? i'd love to

>retain the carbonation without killing myself or my dogs with exploding jars

>

>

>Suze Fisher

Theoretically Mason jars are made not to explode :-)

Myself I'd use the beer algorithm: ferment it til it's dry, then maybe

add a *little* sugar or other fermentable. If you use a water-lock, then

you can see how fast it is fermenting. When I used kefir for some cider,

it actually went faster than with wine yeast.

You can get the water-locks for about $2 at any wine shop. Cut a hole

in the mason jar top and use aquarium sealant to glue it in place. (remember,

the cap isn't going to touch the food -- and aquarium sealant doesn't kill

fish, and fish are darn easy to kill, so it's pretty inert, even though it

smells like acetic acid, which it has).

With beer, you use something like 1/4 cup of sugar to 5 gallons of beer

(about 1/2 tsp per bottle) for fizz. After the " primary ferment " is done

(no more bubbles), you mix the sugar-water with the beer (flat, at that

point), then bottle it. After a few days to a week, it is fizzy. If it is too

fizzy, then you use less sugar next time. Beer brewers use corn sugar,

which I'm sure no one here would like, but really, it's like kamboucha --

the yeast are going to eat the sugar. You could use anything sweet

though. Just be sure to measure it.

I THINK the gem-culture plastic lids will give before they explode: they

use similar lids on kimchi. The kimchi jars are also VERY thick -- buying

a big glass jar of kimchi and using the jar isn't a bad idea. The Korean

kimchi has MSG, but it doesn't seem to bother me any, maybe it

ferments into something else. Anyway, I'm guessing the kimchi jars

with the kimchi lids are designed to avoid the very problem you

mention.

All beer bottles are made not to explode. The best ones for cider

and the like are called " EZ-Cap " -- you don't need a bottle capper

for them. You still should leave some air space at the top. However,

if you bottle beer with lots of residual sugar you will still get a royal

mess (the lids pop off, hit the ceiling, and spray beer everywhere. The

popping lids can hurt you too). The EZ-Cap bottles just " scream " -- the

gasket moves aside and the air screams out. Really scary. Less of a

mess though. Don't ask how I know that!

No beer brewer would bottle beer with lots of sugar in it though. If

you want residual sweetness, you have to use a sugar that the

yeast won't eat. (Some of the malt sugars are inedible: which

is why you can make sweet porters). Or add sweetness when

you drink it. Wine can be sweet because the alchohol content is so

high that the yeast can't grow, even though there is plenty to

eat. For commercial beers they kill the yeast, then add carbon

dioxide, so they don't have to worry about continued fermentation.

On the other hand, now that I think about it, we DID make

homemade root beer, and that does have lots of residual sugar.

But it doesn't get over-fizzy (unlike beer with too much sugar).

So maybe reading a beer-book would be in order, or one of

the people who does more current beer-making could answer that.

I just thought of that: if it works for rootbeer, why wouldn't it for

kamboucha? Hmmmm. Maybe it's the bottles. We should write

the root-beer extract people.

My cider with too much sugar and kefir DID pop the gasket though.

There are too many variables here ...

Heidi