Fermenting Containers

[Guest guest]

Thought this might be interesting to some folks ...

I went to a Korean grocery today, to get some of those good diakon radishes

with tons of greens on them. I asked the lady behind the counter if they

had fermenting containers. She says, oh, you can use anything -- plastic,

stainless. I asked what she would use for a weight? Weight??? She was

shocked (or maybe amused!). Oh, no, you don't use a weight, just press down

gently! (she makes a motion with her hands, gently pressing down with both).

They seem to use open containers nowadays (tupperware a lot), with the

salted cabbage leaves I think. They also use a lot of chili powder (they

sold it in 10lb bags!!!), and garlic, which may help prevent mold. And some

sort of cover to keep flies out etc. I seem to remember my high-school

friend using a stainless bowl, out on the porch. (though it seems to affect

my stainless: it may depend on the quality of the stainless).

So we might be over-obsessing a bit. I'd still love to hire a Korean tutor,

they seem to have this down to an art.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I use a stone crock and then put the stuff in mason jars.

However............I just this minute washed my big 2-gallon crock and it

slipped and cracked. It's still usable but I'm always worried this will

happen as the thing is so darned heavy and slippery. (Not to mention

expensive !)

Anyone had any luck with a wooden crock? (That is I could ever find one!) I

think Heidi said that stainless steel gets pitted...

~Robin Reese

[Guest guest]

> As a newbie to the WAP diet, I am looking to start

> fermenting/ " Cooking " up some cultured veggies and I am unsure as to

> what kind of container might be used? I have some one-gallon jars,like

> iced-tea jars, but the mouths seem too small. Can I can into a

> half-gallon or quart mason jar and get them to ferment if I don't seal?

>

> Thanks in advance for your input!

>

Hi ,

I just got 1 1/2 gallons of Italian-style gardenia going in 1/2 gallon

and quart mason jars and a 1/2 gallon jar that originally contained

artichoke hearts. With big cut veggies like cauliflower, carrots and

the like, I find it's easiest just to shove handfuls into jars and pound

it down with a fist, adding salt water at the end. I should have worn

gloves though, as I added 6 sliced jalepenos and my hands are nice and

burning warm now, lol. Just leave the lid loosely covered and place it

on a plate to collect any overflow.

Good luck!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

I have only recently reacquainted myself with fermenting items in crocks (with

delicious results!), so I am a " newbie. " Yet, I have been using 1-gallon

wide-mouth glass jars. I like these because I can *see* what is going on inside

the crock - adding to my education and confidence (trust, really!) in the

magickal process.

rose

[Guest guest]

How do you weight the vegetables down? I use a crock because it has straight

sides and I can put a plate with a weight on top.. I like the idea of glass

jars though!

~Robin Reese

[Guest guest]

> I just got 1 1/2 gallons of Italian-style gardenia going

What is the gardenia Deanna?

I'm only familar with the flower Gardenia. : -)

Bruce

[Guest guest]

,

I use Anchor Hocking glass cookie jars (1 & 2 gallon), when I want

something bigger than 1 quart. (I can't find canning jars locally that

are bigger than a quart.) The cookie jars are old fashioned looking,

straight sided crocks with lids. This site has pictures (cut & paste

the URL into 1 line):

http://www.restockit.com/browseproducts/Anchor-Hoc

king-Storage-Glassware.html

I got mine at the local Wal-Mart.

All the best,

Jan

>

>

> As a newbie to the WAP diet, I am looking to start

> fermenting/ " Cooking " up some cultured veggies and I am unsure as to

> what kind of container might be used? I have some one-gallon

jars,like

> iced-tea jars, but the mouths seem too small. Can I can into a

> half-gallon or quart mason jar and get them to ferment if I don't

seal?

>

> Thanks in advance for your input!

>

[Guest guest]

> > I just got 1 1/2 gallons of Italian-style gardenia going

>

> What is the gardenia Deanna?

> I'm only familar with the flower Gardenia. : -)

>

> Bruce

Bruce,

Maybe the correct term is more like giardineira. All I know is I used

to work in Lazzarra's Deli in the Southland as a teen. I'd like to tell

you that they fermented vegetables, however that is false. The vinegar

canned veggies that are sometime served as an antipasti come to mind.

So maybe I am re-authenticating a long lost art form. I used a small

Napa cabbage and assorted veg with salt water. Peppers, cauliflower,

carrots, garlic, turnip, red radish, celery and a bit of onion rounded

out the mix.

No flowers. But in So. Call those lovely flowers do grow!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>As a newbie to the WAP diet, I am looking to start

>fermenting/ " Cooking " up some cultured veggies and I am unsure as to

>what kind of container might be used? I have some one-gallon jars,like

>iced-tea jars, but the mouths seem too small. Can I can into a

>half-gallon or quart mason jar and get them to ferment if I don't seal?

>

>Thanks in advance for your input!

>

I use one gallon, half gallon, and quart jars. AND I have a Harsch crock.

I'm in the process of making some " Dunkers " out of porcelain (which

I will sell on the net, I think) ... the clay holds the vegies under the

water nicely. For the bigger mouth jars, you can use one of those

Pyrex custard bowls they sell at the market, and for the smaller

jars, those little " dipping sauce " containers. Anything that will fit.

However, for kraut and kimchi, you can just use a salted cabbage

leaf on top (salt it and let it sit til it gets foldable, then fold it over the

top and press down). Or any big leaf: grape leaves are nice, or

collard, or even lettuce. You can also just push the vegies under

with your fingers, and shake a bit of salt on top. I just did a

recipe from Keeping Food Fresh where they just add water

over the cabbage (with some salt) to make kraut, we'll see

how that goes!

As for " getting them to ferment " ... the bacteria don't care

what kind of container it is. The main thing is that you don't

want too much air (oxygen promotes mold) and you don't

want flies, and you don't want the jars to explode (which

tight lids can do on occasion). Also you don't want anything

with toxic stuff that can leach (some plastics, some ceramics,

most metals).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

I wonder if sodium silicate (waterglass) could be poured in a form and

allowed to dry to make those crock stones. Marbles or something

else decorative could be added for decoration.

Darrell

[Guest guest]

Now I'm wondering if I should be using my cracked 2 gallon ceramic crock to

make sauerkraut. . It has a few long thin lines through a couple sides but

it's staying together for some reason. I just started a new batch of kraut

this afternoon.

After my bout with infection I've gone to a great deal of trouble to avoid

metals and other potentially dangerous elements. I don't mind throwing the

thing away so please advise. Thanks! ~Robin

[Guest guest]

>I wonder if sodium silicate (waterglass) could be poured in a form and

>allowed to dry to make those crock stones. Marbles or something

>else decorative could be added for decoration.

>

>Darrell

You can make them pretty easily out of clay. There is certified

non-hazardous clay available: you just make the shape and have

it fired (I'm doing it at the moment). I'd be happy to make one any

shape and size for anyone who wants one.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>After my bout with infection I've gone to a great deal of trouble to avoid

>metals and other potentially dangerous elements. I don't mind throwing the

>thing away so please advise. Thanks! ~Robin

See my other post. I'm putting together another one on kraut which does

NOT use the Harsch crock. Really, you can make kraut in any ol' jar.

The crock is a bit easier in some respects, but not required.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>

> See my other post. I'm putting together another one on kraut which does

> NOT use the Harsch crock. Really, you can make kraut in any ol' jar.

> The crock is a bit easier in some respects, but not required.

>

I have made kraut in heavy duty zip loc bags using the same

method I freeze fish by forcing the air out by sinking the

finely chopped cabbage with salt mixed in a Zip Loc bag in a

sink full of water. After it sits long enough to wilt a bit and

the salt draws enough water out of the cabbage to cover the

cabbage let the rest of the air out using the same method.

Then put it in a second zip loc bag to hold the odor that leaks

through the first bag. And put it in a dark place.

Gordon Couger

Stillwater, OK

www.couger.com/gcouger

[Guest guest]

Gordon--

It's so simple it's brilliant.

Bet one of those Tilia food sealer units would work too. No jars to break.

Thanks!

--Terry

Re: Fermenting Containers

Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>

> See my other post. I'm putting together another one on kraut which does

> NOT use the Harsch crock. Really, you can make kraut in any ol' jar.

> The crock is a bit easier in some respects, but not required.

>

I have made kraut in heavy duty zip loc bags using the same

method I freeze fish by forcing the air out by sinking the

finely chopped cabbage with salt mixed in a Zip Loc bag in a

sink full of water. After it sits long enough to wilt a bit and

the salt draws enough water out of the cabbage to cover the

cabbage let the rest of the air out using the same method.

Then put it in a second zip loc bag to hold the odor that leaks

through the first bag. And put it in a dark place.

Gordon Couger

Stillwater, OK

www.couger.com/gcouger

[Guest guest]

I think it would depend on the type of Plastic.

I agree that some ziplocks are not really fit for food at all.

The Freezer Bags are designed to take chemical abuse. I should think the heavy

professional Tilia-type materials are too.

I really cringe when people say they use them in the *gasp* Microwave.....

Just got something from another list saying how this will release Dioxins.

I'll find it and send it along.....

--Terry

Re: Fermenting Containers

>

> Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>

> >

> > See my other post. I'm putting together another one on kraut which does

> > NOT use the Harsch crock. Really, you can make kraut in any ol' jar.

> > The crock is a bit easier in some respects, but not required.

> >

>

> I have made kraut in heavy duty zip loc bags using the same

> method I freeze fish by forcing the air out by sinking the

> finely chopped cabbage with salt mixed in a Zip Loc bag in a

> sink full of water. After it sits long enough to wilt a bit and

> the salt draws enough water out of the cabbage to cover the

> cabbage let the rest of the air out using the same method.

>

> Then put it in a second zip loc bag to hold the odor that leaks

> through the first bag. And put it in a dark place.

>

> Gordon Couger

> Stillwater, OK

> www.couger.com/gcouger

>

>

[Guest guest]

The reactivity of ziploc plastic is quesitonable..

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:46:39 -0500, Terry L. <tls@...> wrote:

>

> Gordon--

> It's so simple it's brilliant.

> Bet one of those Tilia food sealer units would work too. No jars to break.

> Thanks!

> --Terry

>

> Re: Fermenting Containers

>

> Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>

> >

> > See my other post. I'm putting together another one on kraut which does

> > NOT use the Harsch crock. Really, you can make kraut in any ol' jar.

> > The crock is a bit easier in some respects, but not required.

> >

>

> I have made kraut in heavy duty zip loc bags using the same

> method I freeze fish by forcing the air out by sinking the

> finely chopped cabbage with salt mixed in a Zip Loc bag in a

> sink full of water. After it sits long enough to wilt a bit and

> the salt draws enough water out of the cabbage to cover the

> cabbage let the rest of the air out using the same method.

>

> Then put it in a second zip loc bag to hold the odor that leaks

> through the first bag. And put it in a dark place.

>

> Gordon Couger

> Stillwater, OK

> www.couger.com/gcouger

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Heidi Jean! I'm interested in what you're making. I'd be happy to pay you

to make me a couple -- maybe a one gallon and a two gallon? You can email me

privately or we can discuss it here -- no matter. As I said earlier, I'll go

to great lengths now to avoid any potential source of toxins since my body

is still very much recovering from autoimmune illness. I NEVER want to go

through that again... ~Robin Reese

[Guest guest]

>I have made kraut in heavy duty zip loc bags using the same

>method I freeze fish by forcing the air out by sinking the

>finely chopped cabbage with salt mixed in a Zip Loc bag in a

>sink full of water. After it sits long enough to wilt a bit and

>the salt draws enough water out of the cabbage to cover the

>cabbage let the rest of the air out using the same method.

That's how I made my first kimchi! Ziplock bags work great.

However, once in awhile they would leak and given the

ingredients of my kimchi, the whole house smelled

like kimchi! So people would say " Hm. I think the garbage

needs to go out ... " .

That plus the reactivity of plastic is still an open question.

Heavy glass kimchi jars, and the heavy French canning jars

(not the lightweight ones) are still my favorites. Otherwise

the PETE jars (like peanut butter comes in) seem the

least reactive, and they don't break. They are harder to

clean though.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Robin and :

>Hi Heidi Jean! I'm interested in what you're making. I'd be happy to pay you

>to make me a couple -- maybe a one gallon and a two gallon? You can email me

>privately or we can discuss it here -- no matter. As I said earlier, I'll go

>to great lengths now to avoid any potential source of toxins since my body

>is still very much recovering from autoimmune illness. I NEVER want to go

>through that again... ~Robin Reese

Sorry for the mixup: I was responding to:

>>I wonder if sodium silicate (waterglass) could be poured in a form and

>>allowed to dry to make those crock stones. Marbles or something

>>else decorative could be added for decoration.

>>

>>Darrell

So I was talking about making the WEIGHTS, not the container. I don't have a

potters wheel, and making big crocks even with a wheel is an art. The Harsch

crocks are better than anything I could make! But you can also buy

ceramic pickling crocks at many hardware stores. You don't need

to worry about the glaze, really! There were some glazes with high

lead once, but first, those were on " Low fire " glazes which leach easily.

Second, ceramic factories are very much aware of the heavy metal

content of glazes and they just don't use lead on food-grade stuff

anymore.

But if anyone wants some big weights to press down stuff

in big crocks, I'm game. No marbles though: they melt in the kiln and

become blobs of glass, can melt all over the kiln too ... I've never

tried Darrell's idea of pouring sodium silicate. When I played with it

as a kid, it seemed like it was water soluable when dry so it would

dissolve as a weight? I did make weights once by filling a very small

1/2 pint jar with buckshot (I used lead in one, copper in another) and

sealing it really well with silicone aquarium sealer. Which is technically

safe enough, but bothered me aesthetically. Thick fired porcelain is

the best I've come up with to date.

Glass jars are cheap, even if you buy them new. There are places online

where you can buy 1/2 gallon heavy glass jars with plastic lids (and if you

don't like plastic lids you can just lay a piece of glass or whatever over

the top to keep the air out). Food grade glass jars are just silica, which

is about as non-reactive as you can get.

Now as for WEIGHTS ... the ones I'm making will fit various sizes of

jars. They consist of a disk with a little " handle " at the top, so

when you screw on the lid they press the vegies under the water.

They will sell for 19.95 for a set of 4, I think, complete with

instructional booklet ( " Ferment your own! " ). They are made of

certified non-toxic porcelain, no glaze. You don't NEED them to

make fermented vegies, but they sure make it easy.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi all

I was contemplating using the gallon pickle jars I get.We buy the pickles fo

for our son and the jars are quite large. I am not sure though that the

mouth of the jar is large enough.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Hi folks; I'm new but will post an intro later.

I was seeing the Ball 1/2 gallon widemouth canning jars on the

internet; would those work?

Kathy in OK

> Hi all

> I was contemplating using the gallon pickle jars I get.We buy the

pickles fo

> for our son and the jars are quite large. I am not sure though

that the

> mouth of the jar is large enough.

> Kathy

[Guest guest]

[Kathy] I was seeing the Ball 1/2 gallon widemouth canning jars on the

internet; would those work?

[MAP] I use precisely those all the time for just about everything!

Kefir, kimchi, kraut, you name it. But you should be able to find

them in local stores instead on the internet. Try hardware/homeware

stores, supermarkets, general stores, etc.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

>

>I was contemplating using the gallon pickle jars I get.We buy the pickles fo

>for our son and the jars are quite large. I am not sure though that the

>mouth of the jar is large enough.

>Kathy

If you can get a pickle in it, it's large enough. See:

http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom & ID=27

The two at the far right are the ones I use, with plastic lids (metal

lids work if they aren't tightly screwed down, but

they rust eventually). Basically the mouth only needs to be big

enough to get your hand in to smoosh stuff down.

The jugs on the left are what I brew kefir beer in.

I didn't get mine from this outfit though, being a cheapskate I

re-used ones that kimchi and cheap wine or cider came in. Still,

at less than $3 each and a minimum order of 4, what's to lose?

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> The two at the far right are the ones I use, with plastic lids

Where do you get plastic lids for 1/4 turn threaded gallon jars Heidi?

Finding a source for those would be a real boon.

TIA,

Bruce