Re: my trip

[Guest guest]

I haven't yet discussed it w/ hubby yet. As a matter of fact, this trip may

be the start of a year long separation. We're having some problems that may

or may not work themselves out. I went home last summer and didn't want to

come back. He talked me into it and now he refuses to let me take the kids

and go back home to stay for awhile. I'll keep you posted. I'm not one to

tell everyone my problems, but if I do make it home this summer, I may need

your support. I know I can count on all of you-you sound like wonderful

people-plus, you're New Yorkers! : The name Amidon sounds very

familiar. I'm only 30 but I do remember a guy w/ that name closer to my

age. Hope to see you all this summer.

[Guest guest]

> I haven't yet discussed it w/ hubby yet. As a matter of fact, this

trip may be the start of a year long separation. We're having some

problems that may or may not work themselves out.

Sorry to butt in here, but I just wanted to tell you I hope everything

works out for you and your kids. And yes, we are a very supportive

group. I think I can speak for most of us when I say we're there for

each other even if it isn't soap related. (Just ask Terri about my

sister from he--! I've talked to her about her enough!)

I hope you can be there for the gathering. I think we are going to

have a blast!

Colleen-who is just starting to realize the task at hand in getting

ready for this gathering. Sure, I'll volunteer to have it at my

house!!! Just kidding!

[Guest guest]

: Sorry I haven't gotten back. I'm a little behind in emails. Thank

you for your supportive & encouraging words re my marriage/divorce. We've

been married 11 years today!!! OUr girls are 10 & 3. I probably should

have left years ago since this is not the first time I've considered it.

I've been in therapy (so has my 10 y.o.) for a little while now. He is

supposed to go but " forgot " to get a referral from the family doctor. I'm

seeing an attorney on Thursday to see what my rights are. He says he will

fight for the kids and don't know if that's true or if he's just bluffing to

keep me here. It's a long story and I won't get into it now. I just know

that whatever happens, I may need some support from my fellow soapers.

Thanks again.

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

Raw milk is illegal everywhere in Canada except for in raw milk cheese so

the fresh milk you are referring to just means that it is supposedly not

rancid. As if they'd put rancid milk on the label.

Astrid

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

< >

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 12:10 AM

Subject: my trip

> Hi everyone,

>

> I'm back. A couple things about my trip to Montreal--

>

> My friend and I each bought a Breyer's ice cream bar, and the ingredients

> listed " fresh cream " and " fresh milk. " From what I've seen, it is

followed

> in Canada, like the US, that pastuerized milk will say pasteurized on the

> label. My understanding is that just " milk " may or may not mean

> unpasteurized, but " fresh milk, " usually means raw. In any case, in the

> French listing it said " creme fraiche, " so I think it might have been

> _cultured_ cream, since the " fresh " belonging to milk was spelled " frais "

in

> French. (?) In any case, if it really was " fresh " dairy, though it had

sugar

> and some other crap in it, that and the fact that it had a 1:1 fat to carb

> ratio was somewhat redeeming about it, and not the typical American ice

cream

> bar.

>

> On the downside, I somehow came down with conjunctivitis while I was

there.

> Interestingly, I brought some chicken stock with me, and made chicken

coconut

> soup, and drank a saucepan in the morning I realized I had it. Within a

half

> hour or hour of drinking it, my eye improved greatly. It tends to improve

> during the day anyway, till the morning again, but it was true improvement

> because the next morning it was not nearly as bad. That morning, I made

the

> soup but with twice as much coconut milk because I just used up everything

I

> had, and within an hour it made my conjunctivitis completely disappear,

and

> it was gone the next morning. Unfortunately, I went and got moderately

drunk

> last night, and now it is appeared again, not as bad, but my eyes are

quite

> bloodshot. *sigh* kid stuff. You know, I can't drink here, being 20, so

how

> can I resist... ;-)

>

> Anyway, interesting testament to the centrality of food consumption to

> outward illness.

>

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds,

and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight

of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of

the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/29/02 12:52:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

astrid.froese@... writes:

> Raw milk is illegal everywhere in Canada except for in raw milk cheese so

> the fresh milk you are referring to just means that it is supposedly not

> rancid. As if they'd put rancid milk on the label.

Oh, ok. I wasn't sure if it would be legal if frozen for a certain amount of

time. If freezing kills parasites in meat after 14 days, which is backed by

the US gov't, wouldn't it do the same in dairy? So I wonder why raw milk ice

cream isn't legal in either US or Canada?

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

---Many U.S. foods are " defined " in the Code of Federal Register

(CFR) while others are " defined " by Standards of Identity for

whatever reasons. Ice cream is under one of those rules, so to speak

so cannot be legally made for sale day in and day out any other way.

Fresh milk is also covered; for example to define the acidity(absence

of rancidity) the titrable acidity has to be less than .17 if I

remember correctly. (I don't remember the units asssigned the .17).

Of course this doesn't answer the why of the regulatiion but it's

the way it is today. Dennis

In @y..., ChrisMasterjohn@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/29/02 12:52:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> astrid.froese@s... writes:

>

> > Raw milk is illegal everywhere in Canada except for in raw milk

cheese so

> > the fresh milk you are referring to just means that it is

supposedly not

> > rancid. As if they'd put rancid milk on the label.

>

> Oh, ok. I wasn't sure if it would be legal if frozen for a certain

amount of

> time. If freezing kills parasites in meat after 14 days, which is

backed by

> the US gov't, wouldn't it do the same in dairy? So I wonder why

raw milk ice

> cream isn't legal in either US or Canada?

>

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion?

It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings,

birds, and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the

sight of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and

intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them

unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any

creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for

enemies of the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

At 09:04 PM 8/29/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Oh, ok. I wasn't sure if it would be legal if frozen for a certain amount of

>time. If freezing kills parasites in meat after 14 days, which is backed by

>the US gov't, wouldn't it do the same in dairy? So I wonder why raw milk ice

>cream isn't legal in either US or Canada?

>

>Chris

Freezing doesn't get rid of the bacteria though. In our state raw milk

is legal, but everyone is scared of being sued. The local coop USED to

sell raw milk but won't handle it now. Shoot, at the state fair they

have all these signs about washing your hands after petting the animals.

There was an outbreak of e-coli during the last fair -- it was from

taco meat, not live animals, but people are scared.

My own theory is that the kids who got ill were likely the ones

that had been on antibiotics. The times I've gotten food poisoning

were after something like strep throat, where I was taking a LOT

of antibiotics. I'd bet if we all drank kefir daily no one would

get e-coli, tainted meat or not. (and out of the thousands of

people served tainted meat, only a handful got ill, even without

the kefir).

But until the e-coli and other food-poisoning issues get

resolved, raw milk is going to be difficult. No one likes

getting sued.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

Good question.

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

< >

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:04 PM

Subject: Re: my trip

> In a message dated 8/29/02 12:52:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> astrid.froese@... writes:

>

> > Raw milk is illegal everywhere in Canada except for in raw milk cheese

so

> > the fresh milk you are referring to just means that it is supposedly

not

> > rancid. As if they'd put rancid milk on the label.

>

> Oh, ok. I wasn't sure if it would be legal if frozen for a certain amount

of

> time. If freezing kills parasites in meat after 14 days, which is backed

by

> the US gov't, wouldn't it do the same in dairy? So I wonder why raw milk

ice

> cream isn't legal in either US or Canada?

>

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds,

and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight

of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of

the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I read somewhere that antibiotics cause immune suppression for two weeks or

so after tking them. I wish I could remember where I read that. Anyway that

seems to follow with my experience as well.

Irene

At 12:57 AM 8/30/02, you wrote:

>At 09:04 PM 8/29/2002 -0400, you wrote:

> >Oh, ok. I wasn't sure if it would be legal if frozen for a certain

> amount of

> >time. If freezing kills parasites in meat after 14 days, which is backed by

> >the US gov't, wouldn't it do the same in dairy? So I wonder why raw

> milk ice

> >cream isn't legal in either US or Canada?

> >

> >Chris

>

>Freezing doesn't get rid of the bacteria though. In our state raw milk

>is legal, but everyone is scared of being sued. The local coop USED to

>sell raw milk but won't handle it now. Shoot, at the state fair they

>have all these signs about washing your hands after petting the animals.

>There was an outbreak of e-coli during the last fair -- it was from

>taco meat, not live animals, but people are scared.

>

>My own theory is that the kids who got ill were likely the ones

>that had been on antibiotics. The times I've gotten food poisoning

>were after something like strep throat, where I was taking a LOT

>of antibiotics. I'd bet if we all drank kefir daily no one would

>get e-coli, tainted meat or not. (and out of the thousands of

>people served tainted meat, only a handful got ill, even without

>the kefir).

>

>But until the e-coli and other food-poisoning issues get

>resolved, raw milk is going to be difficult. No one likes

>getting sued.

>

>

>Heidi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/02 3:54:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@...

writes:

> read somewhere that antibiotics cause immune suppression for two weeks or

> so after tking them. I wish I could remember where I read that. Anyway

that

> seems to follow with my experience as well.

I didn't know about direct immune suppression, but I did read that it takes

8-9 months to rebuild your bacterial colonies after antibiotics without

probiotics, and 2-3 weeks with probiotic supplements.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

I think there is a direct immune suppresstion as well. I know a course of

antibiotics had a effect in my allergic response for 4 to 6 weeks!

At 06:08 AM 8/31/02, you wrote:

>In a message dated 8/31/02 3:54:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@...

>writes:

>

> > read somewhere that antibiotics cause immune suppression for two weeks or

> > so after tking them. I wish I could remember where I read that. Anyway

>that

> > seems to follow with my experience as well.

>

>I didn't know about direct immune suppression, but I did read that it takes

>8-9 months to rebuild your bacterial colonies after antibiotics without

>probiotics, and 2-3 weeks with probiotic supplements.

>

>Chris

>

>____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

>heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

>animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

>them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

>compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

>bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

>Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

>truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

>--Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

[Guest guest]

> read somewhere that antibiotics cause immune suppression for two weeks or

> so after tking them. I wish I could remember where I read that. Anyway

that

> seems to follow with my experience as well.

I didn't know about direct immune suppression, but I did read that it takes

8-9 months to rebuild your bacterial colonies after antibiotics without

probiotics, and 2-3 weeks with probiotic supplements.

-------> this issue is really important to me...do you recall where

you read that?

thanks!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/02 6:19:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> -------> this issue is really important to me...do you recall where

> you read that?

> thanks!

I had _thought_ it was in Prescription for Nutritional Healing (Balch and

Balch), with a second guess of Healthy Healing ( Rector Page), but I

looked for a while last night, and unfortunately I could find it in either.

I'm really sorry, I wish I could help, but I just don't know where to look

having not found it in those. I read it a long time ago.

By the way, on a sidenote, the newest edition of PFNH refers to bifidus as

" B. Bifidum, " but the last one referred to it as " L Bifidus " . Has there been

a change in classification, or did they make a mistake one of the times?

Anyone know? Thanks.

And sorry Suze,

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian