Re: making whey without starter culture

[Guest guest]

Suze-

I'm not sure how much " fresh " makes a difference, since time will only

result in culturing with raw pastured milk. However, don't expect to get

anything remotely resembling store-bought cream cheese. I didn't really

like the " cheese " I got by making whey and straining the milk, but who

knows, your mileage may vary.

>sally writes that you don't need a starter culture if you use *fresh* raw

>milk...i wonder how *fresh* it needs to be? i have a container that was

>delivered to the store last weds and would like to make whey for sauerkraut.

>is this OK? or should i wait until the next delivery and use *really* fresh

>raw milk?

-

[Guest guest]

2 weeks ago i bought 2x 2 litre of raw milk.

took me 7 days to use first 2 litres.

day 8 i open litre number 2 and it had started going sour.

I thought stuff it and threw the 2 litre container on the bench.

4 days later it finally seperated adn I had Whey adn cream cheese

> Suze-

>

> I'm not sure how much " fresh " makes a difference, since time will

only

> result in culturing with raw pastured milk. However, don't expect

to get

> anything remotely resembling store-bought cream cheese. I didn't

really

> like the " cheese " I got by making whey and straining the milk, but

who

> knows, your mileage may vary.

>

> >sally writes that you don't need a starter culture if you use

*fresh* raw

> >milk...i wonder how *fresh* it needs to be? i have a container

that was

> >delivered to the store last weds and would like to make whey for

sauerkraut.

> >is this OK? or should i wait until the next delivery and use

*really* fresh

> >raw milk?

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Hi Suze

I've been making whey and curd cheese with raw milk for a while now. I put the

milk in a glass jar with a tea towel over it and let it sit out on the counter

until it separates. Or, if I'm imaptient, I add a little whey to it, which

will start it off faster. I've also found that if I just leave the milk in the

fridge and do nothing with it, it will eventually sour and curdle anyway. Then

I just pour it straight into the strainer. <G>

I discovered by trial and error that you can leave your curds to drip for a

good 24 hours or more. The longer you leave it to drain the firmer your cheese

will be. So it depends on how moist you want the cheese as to how long you

leave it. I don't add salt to it either because it's easy to sprinkle salt on

when you have cheese on bread and sometimes I like to make a chocolate or

lemon dessert with the cheese.

Den

In article <LMECLAJGBMCBEKJMGBJAEEEMEBAA.s.fisher22@...>, Suze Fisher

wrote:

> does anyone who makes whey and cream cheese with RAW milk use the pima

> culture suggested in the NT recipe? or do you just let your raw milk sit out

> and separate without the help of any cultures? does anyone NOT use starter

> culture to make *goat's* milk whey and cream cheese?

[Guest guest]

>>>I discovered by trial and error that you can leave your curds to drip for

a

good 24 hours or more. The longer you leave it to drain the firmer your

cheese

will be. So it depends on how moist you want the cheese as to how long you

leave it.

---->i'm more interested in the whey at this point. do you go ahead and use

the un-inoculated whey to ferment stuff, then?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Sort of! I do sometimes but I've found the fresh whey can go off more quickly

than the Molokosan whey I buy, so I tend to do things like soak flour to make

brownies with the fresh whey, or add it to soups just before serving. But it

has to be said it's been hot and humid here in London and we have a problem

with molds in our home in the summer and that could be the problem. Now that

the weather is cooler I think I'll try the veggies with the fresh whey again.

I was also going to try tenderizing meat with it too but I haven't got around

to that yet. Too many new things to try. <G> My husband says I'm an urban

microfarmer. <BG>

Den

> ---->I'm more interested in the whey at this point. do you go ahead and use

> the un-inoculated whey to ferment stuff, then?

[Guest guest]

Yes, that whey can be used as a starter. I made ginger ale with whey made

like that. I've only done it once, and I'll know next time to let the cheese

hang for longer, thanks Den, because I thought there was something wrong with

mine when the cheese was extremely moist after the several hours

recommended. I also found that it's important to have the cheese hanging to

begin with to separate the whey, rather than sitting in a strainer suspended

on the bowl, as that was hardly working at all. It seems the more vertical

and deep the cheese is hanging, the more of it's own weight is free-falling,

the better separation you get.

But how long you let it sit, Suze, is only relevant to the cheese. You'll

get most of your whey after a couple hours at most, and you can use that

whey. The rest of the whey takes longer to get out, but it only matters

because the cheese is gross without doing so. If you're not interested in

the cheese, there's no reason to have it sit so long.

Chris

In a message dated 9/3/02 1:12:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, den@...

writes:

> Sort of! I do sometimes but I've found the fresh whey can go off more

quickly

>

> than the Molokosan whey I buy, so I tend to do things like soak flour to

> make

> brownies with the fresh whey, or add it to soups just before serving. But

it

>

> has to be said it's been hot and humid here in London and we have a

problem

> with molds in our home in the summer and that could be the problem. Now

that

>

> the weather is cooler I think I'll try the veggies with the fresh whey

again.

>

>

> I was also going to try tenderizing meat with it too but I haven't got

> around

> to that yet. Too many new things to try. <G> My husband says I'm an urban

> microfarmer. <BG>

>

> Den

>

> > ---->I'm more interested in the whey at this point. do you go ahead and

> use

> > the un-inoculated whey to ferment stuff, then?

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Is it possible to get perfectly clear whey? Mine (which is kefir whey)

always is a little cloudy with a little bit of the white kefir stuff in it?

Does it matter as to how the whey performs or keeps?

Thaks,

[Guest guest]

>>>But how long you let it sit, Suze, is only relevant to the cheese.

You'll

get most of your whey after a couple hours at most, and you can use that

whey. The rest of the whey takes longer to get out, but it only matters

because the cheese is gross without doing so. If you're not interested in

the cheese, there's no reason to have it sit so long.

---->ok, it seems like everyone who's replied so far is just making whey

primarily from separated milk without the piima starter recommended in NT.

so does that whey work well to ferment veggies and stuff?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I found it worked as well at fermenting veggies but it was prone to attract

mold, although I was trying this in hot weather and we are prone to molds in

hot weather here. I haven't found any piima culture here so I haven't been

able to try it that way yet.

Den

> ---->ok, it seems like everyone who's replied so far is just making whey

> primarily from separated milk without the piima starter recommended in NT.

> so does that whey work well to ferment veggies and stuff?

[Guest guest]

The whey I get is cloudy.

Den

In article <BKEIIBDHBGJJNLAEBLMCEEOICHAA.mary@...>, Pellicer

wrote:

> Is it possible to get perfectly clear whey? Mine (which is kefir whey)

> always is a little cloudy with a little bit of the white kefir stuff in it?

> Does it matter as to how the whey performs or keeps?

> Thaks,

[Guest guest]

> But how long you let it sit, Suze, is only relevant to the cheese. You'll

> get most of your whey after a couple hours at most,

That's not true for me. After 2 hours there is a fair bit of whey in the bowl

but several hours later there's at least 50% more. After than it's much slower.

Perhaps this is dependant on how curdled the milk is before you start? Or maybe

the type of milk gives different results. The milk I'm using is Guernsey and it

has a high fat content so perhaps that makes it slower.

Den

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I made a " bag " out of unbleached white cotton. Hang the bag in a 1 gallon

glass jar, hold it in place with thick rubberbands, pour my kefir in the

bag,

cover, let it sit for a few hours and I have clear whey! It is still a

yellow color, but it is clear.

If I am making a light cheese, I only let this sit about 4 hours then use

the cheese almost like cottage cheese. If I am making a thicker cheese, I

drain off the whey and put the bag back tohang for around 24 hours.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " Pellicer " <@...>

< >

Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:13 PM

Subject: RE: making whey without starter culture

> Is it possible to get perfectly clear whey? Mine (which is kefir whey)

> always is a little cloudy with a little bit of the white kefir stuff in

it?

> Does it matter as to how the whey performs or keeps?

> Thaks,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:53:34 +0100, den@... writes:

> That's not true for me. After 2 hours there is a fair bit of whey in the bowl

> but several hours later there's at least 50% more. After than it's much

slower.

> Perhaps this is dependant on how curdled the milk is before you start? Or

maybe

> the type of milk gives different results. The milk I'm

> using is Guernsey and it

> has a high fat content so perhaps that makes it slower.

I use Brown Swiss. I'm not sure how they compare, but I think BS is up there in

fat content too. My guess is that it depends mostly on how curdled it is and how

heavy it is hanging. NT says to let it sit in a strainer over a bowl for a few

hours before hanging it with a spoon. When I let it sit in the strainer, a

small amount initially came out rather quickly, and then almost nothing for the

entire time it sat there. However, when I hung it from a spoon, or when I

simply picked up the dishtowel-wrapped-milk out of the strainer, it started

immediately coming out much quicker. So I ended up hanging it on a spoon

suspended in a crazy balancing act on top of jars sitting on the edges of the

bowl! Anyway, after that it started moving _much_ faster, and produced the

large bulk of the whey in a couple hours.

chris

[Guest guest]

---The temp of the yogurt you're draining and the " type " of filter

used will affect the whey to a great degree. I noticed today yogurt

left on the counter several weeks has transparent whey in the

container.The whey at one day is a yellowish-green color much the

color of mountain dew soda. When the whey is transparent(several

weeks old) there's no telling what vitamins, chemicals and microbes

are present. It has a mighty strong aroma at this point. Dennis

In @y..., " Katanne1890 " <katanne1890@m...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> I made a " bag " out of unbleached white cotton. Hang the bag in a 1

gallon

> glass jar, hold it in place with thick rubberbands, pour my kefir

in the

> bag,

> cover, let it sit for a few hours and I have clear whey! It is

still a

> yellow color, but it is clear.

>

> If I am making a light cheese, I only let this sit about 4 hours

then use

> the cheese almost like cottage cheese. If I am making a thicker

cheese, I

> drain off the whey and put the bag back tohang for around 24 hours.

>

> Kat

> http://www.katking.com

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Pellicer " <@H...>

> < @y...>

> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:13 PM

> Subject: RE: making whey without starter culture

>

>

> > Is it possible to get perfectly clear whey? Mine (which is kefir

whey)

> > always is a little cloudy with a little bit of the white kefir

stuff in

> it?

> > Does it matter as to how the whey performs or keeps?

> > Thaks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

---->ok, it seems like everyone who's replied so far is just making whey

primarily from separated milk without the piima starter recommended in NT.

I'm only getting started with NT but i did use some whole milk yogurt for

the whey that is now in my fridge. However!! The Piima that i ordered came

yesterday and so i will be doing " something " with that. Not just sure what

yet though. I only ordered 2 packets and so will try to think it over a bit

first

I saw someone mention mayo the other day and i tried making some this last

weekend. I'm sorry but that stuff is gross !! I am going to look in my

regular cookbook to see how it is different .

I am one of those people that has escaped learning to cook (no, i am not

young) and so this whole thing is kind of a big adventure.

I did make some chicken broth but my measly 4 1/2 quart pot made for

disappointing results. : )

Kathy A

Oregon

Kathy A

Oregon

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

I live in Bend, OR. Are you near Bend?

I think you are a brave woman learning to cook when you are " not

young " . I'm not so young either! I think you will find the NT way a

lot of fun. I had several disaters when I began, but now I love it.

When the success's roll in it is so encouraging and they are so

delicious.

How did you make the chicken broth? Does it taste weak; without

flavor? Tell us more?

Be Well,

Sheila

>

> ---->ok, it seems like everyone who's replied so far is just making

whey

> primarily from separated milk without the piima starter recommended

in NT.

>

> I'm only getting started with NT but i did use some whole milk

yogurt for

> the whey that is now in my fridge. However!! The Piima that i

ordered came

> yesterday and so i will be doing " something " with that. Not just

sure what

> yet though. I only ordered 2 packets and so will try to think it

over a bit

> first

>

> I saw someone mention mayo the other day and i tried making some

this last

> weekend. I'm sorry but that stuff is gross !! I am going to look

in my

> regular cookbook to see how it is different .

>

> I am one of those people that has escaped learning to cook (no, i

am not

> young) and so this whole thing is kind of a big adventure.

>

> I did make some chicken broth but my measly 4 1/2 quart pot made for

> disappointing results. : )

>

> Kathy A

> Oregon

>

>

> Kathy A

> Oregon

[Guest guest]

<<I live in Bend, OR. Are you near Bend? >>

I'm not to far away- just over in the valley by Salem. Actually i do know a

Sheila over in Bend

<think you are a brave woman learning to cook when you are " not

young " . I'm not so young either! >>

Actually i thought i was in the middle part (50) of middle age but since

they are now offering me discounts as a senior <shrug> well, I'll take it.

: ) I have never been really ill but then have never felt well either with

chronic pain ( fibro maybe) and so I'm on a learning curve. I'm having fun

with it and experimenting.

The chicken broth came out great. Actually thicker than i would suppose

normal as i have the smaller pot than they suggest and i had a whole chicken

in there. What i wanted was to have enough to freeze several quarts for

later and only came out with about 1 1/2 quarts.

With just me to feed i am always looking for the simple recipes, ones that

it is easy to make 1/2 recipes and also ones that will freeze easily.

Right now i am working on getting some of the basics down such as whey,

mayo, salad dressings and soups.

Kathy A

Oregon

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

If you ever come over here to Bend see the other Sheila, why don't

you let me know. We could swap stories about NT recipes, what has

worked and what hasn't, etc. etc. In the mean time keep up the

cooking and enjoy those new recipes.

I use a large stock pot when cooking a chicken for broth. If I want

to use the meat of the chcken I remove it from the pot after about 6

hours of simmering. If it is cooked longer it loses all it's flavor

and gets very dry. I cool the meat a little and take it off the

bones, then the bones go back in the stock pot to cook many hours

more. Works like a charm. You method must have produced a very rich,

tasty broth in the smaller pot.

If you type in firbo on our search, something helpful maight come up.

Of course I believe you are headed in the right direction by changing

to a whole foods diet and learning how to prepare healthy foods for

yourself.

Thanks for writing back,

Sheila

..

> <<I live in Bend, OR. Are you near Bend? >>

>

> I'm not to far away- just over in the valley by Salem. Actually i

do know a

> Sheila over in Bend

>

>

> <think you are a brave woman learning to cook when you are " not

> young " . I'm not so young either! >>

>

> Actually i thought i was in the middle part (50) of middle age but

since

> they are now offering me discounts as a senior <shrug> well, I'll

take it.

> : ) I have never been really ill but then have never felt well

either with

> chronic pain ( fibro maybe) and so I'm on a learning curve. I'm

having fun

> with it and experimenting.

>

> The chicken broth came out great. Actually thicker than i would

suppose

> normal as i have the smaller pot than they suggest and i had a

whole chicken

> in there. What i wanted was to have enough to freeze several

quarts for

> later and only came out with about 1 1/2 quarts.

>

> With just me to feed i am always looking for the simple recipes,

ones that

> it is easy to make 1/2 recipes and also ones that will freeze

easily.

>

> Right now i am working on getting some of the basics down such as

whey,

> mayo, salad dressings and soups.

>

> Kathy A

> Oregon