Re: Vegan vs Low Carb

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/3/02 9:58:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

katanne1890@... writes:

> We all have different nutritional needs. I have many friends who do best on

> vegetarian diets and others of us don't.

I think it's definitely true that some might do best on high amounts of meat,

some best on low amounts of meat, some perhaps on fish only for meat, but I

am convinced that vegetarian diets aren't good for ANYONE. The folks who

Weston Price found that avoided modern foods but were _vegetarians_ were the

ones who had the highest teeth problems out of all the non-modern eaters.

But I mostly think this from the many vegetarian/vegan/ex-either s that I

know. I know many, and I would say at least 80%, maybe even 90%, have at

some point got into health problems, ranging from their body telling them it

was time to eat meat again, to abnormal skin color, to anemia.

The thing is, however, there were vastly different amounts of time before

people got problems from it. One person I knew when I was vegan who I

convinced to become vegan tried it for a week and felt like he couldn't get

out of bed (must be metabolic rather than nutrient-related, seems to me). On

the other hand, my aunt was a vegetarian all her life till in her 30s she

became anemic from problems absorbing plant-source iron, and had to start

eating fish. In between, I know people who lasted two months, two years, six

years, etc. So you can feel great for a while, but it seems that it almost

invariably causes problems in the long-term. Also, I know vegetarians who

_claim_ to feel " great, " but they seem rather sluggish and not quite " with

it " to me, which seems to be a common trait of vegetarians (though I know

some who seem fine).

B12 deficiency can take up to 30 years to produce outward symptoms in certain

individuals; by then it's too late to reverse. I wouldn't trust

vegetarianism a bit, no matter how great people look or feel in the short

term.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

> Every nutritional plan I looked at had thousands of documented

" miraculous "

> healing, and every one believed that their diet was the only way to heal.

> There was only one constant variable.....no sugar, white flour, processed

> foods, food chemicals, caffeine, avoid hormones and other junk in the

meats,

> and most advocated keeping natural sugars (even in fruits) to a minimum.

>

Hi Kat: Yes, I've noticed this too. I constantly find myself running into

salt is good, salt is no good; drink water, don't drink water; eat

meat,don't eat meat; cook your food, don't cook your food and on and on it

goes. I am specifically thinking of people who were on the major SAD scene

and then got really sick. What does it take for that type of person to come

back to life? For that severe type, not just someone trying to improve on

their health, it seems that it takes more than just eliminating the evil

foods. (Although, I'm sure it's helpful.) Even though I do question some

of Dr. Bieler's ideas, he does have quite a few ideas that ring true to me

and seem to make sense with what I currently understand and observe. I may

be wrong, but it does seem logical that a person who's had an atrocious diet

and became very sick is likely pretty gummed up inside and things are not

functioning 100%. So, in addition to eliminating the evil foods, it's

probably helpful to the body to eliminate other hard to digest foods " for a

while " partly because the body probably isn't digesting well at that point

and needs to spend more energy healing and repairing than digesting

something it's having a heck of a time trying to do. Kind of like the idea

behind fasting. Bieler's story of the man with appendicitis really has

impressed me. Once a person has been restored pretty well, I think that

person can probably start finding that maintaince diet that most of us here

are searching for. That's my thoughts on it " so far. "

Marla

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

> B12 deficiency can take up to 30 years to produce outward symptoms in

certain

> individuals; by then it's too late to reverse. I wouldn't trust

> vegetarianism a bit, no matter how great people look or feel in the short

> term.

>

> Chris

>

Hi Chris: I became B12 deficient in less than two years on vegan. (Shown

by blood test, not outward symptoms)

Marla

[Guest guest]

Hi Marla,

I agree. The focus on food is my attempt to avoid foods that I have

reactions to and also to avoid adding more toxins to my system.

Detoxing has always been a big part of my life, but usually I was focused on

colon, blood and kidney detox.

This last liver cleanse convinced me that the liver is where I need to

focus. From all I have read and experienced, the liver cleanse can also

help to eliminate food allergies and chemical sensitivities.

I have experienced more positive results from one liver cleanse one week ago

(and I plan to do them every 2 weeks for 6 months) than I got from a series

of 12 colonics over a period of months!

Bottom line is - get all the toxins out, add all the clean nutritients you

can, and your body will do the rest.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " Marla " <talithakumi@...>

< >

Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 5:00 PM

Subject: Re: Vegan vs Low Carb

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

> > Every nutritional plan I looked at had thousands of documented

> " miraculous "

> > healing, and every one believed that their diet was the only way to

heal.

> > There was only one constant variable.....no sugar, white flour,

processed

> > foods, food chemicals, caffeine, avoid hormones and other junk in the

> meats,

> > and most advocated keeping natural sugars (even in fruits) to a minimum.

> >

>

> Hi Kat: Yes, I've noticed this too. I constantly find myself running

into

> salt is good, salt is no good; drink water, don't drink water; eat

> meat,don't eat meat; cook your food, don't cook your food and on and on it

> goes. I am specifically thinking of people who were on the major SAD

scene

> and then got really sick. What does it take for that type of person to

come

> back to life? For that severe type, not just someone trying to improve on

> their health, it seems that it takes more than just eliminating the evil

> foods. (Although, I'm sure it's helpful.) Even though I do question some

> of Dr. Bieler's ideas, he does have quite a few ideas that ring true to me

> and seem to make sense with what I currently understand and observe. I

may

> be wrong, but it does seem logical that a person who's had an atrocious

diet

> and became very sick is likely pretty gummed up inside and things are not

> functioning 100%. So, in addition to eliminating the evil foods, it's

> probably helpful to the body to eliminate other hard to digest foods " for

a

> while " partly because the body probably isn't digesting well at that point

> and needs to spend more energy healing and repairing than digesting

> something it's having a heck of a time trying to do. Kind of like the

idea

> behind fasting. Bieler's story of the man with appendicitis really has

> impressed me. Once a person has been restored pretty well, I think that

> person can probably start finding that maintaince diet that most of us

here

> are searching for. That's my thoughts on it " so far. "

>

> Marla