Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 Well, since I'm the one that seems to have started this, in a sense ... My take on the acrylamide issue is that I'm ignoring it until more information comes in, based on the following: 1. Of the products tested, the commercial products were WAY higher than than the home-cooked foods. 2. Although the fats used were not listed in the writup I read, I HIGHLY doubt that any of the fats used were pork fat or coconut oil. Probably they were using polyunsaturated fats like canola and Crisco, which are more commonly used nowadays. 3. My direct ancestors LIVED off potatoes, pork fat, and oats (with goat milk and cheese and eggs and meat when they could, and vegies in the summer, kraut in winter). They did not have problems with either obesity or cancer, and neither did Germany as a whole. I'm sure they fried their potatoes (good ol' potato pancakes), though they also did a lot of browning and boiling. So personally, I feel potatoes, pork fat, oats, goat cheese, eggs, and meat are really low on my list of things to suspect for health problems. My grandparents were much healthier, esp. in their old age, than my own parents are. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 Heidi, I think the point is the HEAT that the CHO sustain and not the fat in which their fried, if at all. Extruded cereals (no extra fat involved) have higher acrylimide count. see the quote below from Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry August 14, 2002 ....'Protein-rich foods, such as beef and chicken, produced only moderate levels of acrylamide when heated. Carbohydrate-rich foods, however, had high levels, with potato chips and French fries at the top of the list. Any item containing potato produced significant acrylamide upon heating in microwaves or conventional ovens. The study also found that more acrylamide forms as food is heated to higher temperatures'. you can find the rest on - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_ui ds=12166997 & dopt=Abstract Dedy ----- Original Message ----- From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...> < > Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: Acrylamides and Potatoes > > Well, since I'm the one that seems to have started this, in a sense ... > > My take on the acrylamide issue is that I'm ignoring it until more > information comes in, based on the following: > > 1. Of the products tested, the commercial products were WAY higher > than than the home-cooked foods. > > 2. Although the fats used were not listed in the writup I read, I > HIGHLY doubt that any of the fats used were pork fat or coconut > oil. Probably they were using polyunsaturated fats like canola > and Crisco, which are more commonly used nowadays. > > 3. My direct ancestors LIVED off potatoes, pork fat, and oats (with > goat milk and cheese and eggs and meat when they could, and > vegies in the summer, kraut in winter). They did not > have problems with either obesity or cancer, and neither did > Germany as a whole. I'm sure they fried their potatoes (good > ol' potato pancakes), though they also did a lot of browning and boiling. > > So personally, I feel potatoes, pork fat, oats, goat cheese, eggs, and > meat are really low on my list of things to suspect for health > problems. My grandparents were much healthier, esp. in their > old age, than my own parents are. > > > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Trillium Custom Software Inc. > heidis@... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 > 3. My direct ancestors LIVED off potatoes, pork fat, and oats (with > goat milk and cheese and eggs and meat when they could, and > vegies in the summer, kraut in winter). They did not > have problems with either obesity or cancer, and neither did > Germany as a whole. I'm sure they fried their potatoes (good > ol' potato pancakes), though they also did a lot of browning and > boiling. Heidi, I'm not paying much attention to acrylamides yet either, but frying foods and high-heat baking are extremely recent phenomena for all but the wealthiest. Boiling and roasting were pretty much the sum total of the cooking methods available to the general populace untilt the last couple hundred (maybe few hundred) years. Even then, low-temp baking and boiling were by far the most common methods of cooking. Heck, even now, most of the world isn't wealthy enough to procure cookware. They mostly cook by boiling gruels and soups. So...I wouldn't be too sure that they fried their potatoes. In fact, potatoes themselves are a fairly recent addition to the human larder (with the exception of south america). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 At 11:12 PM 8/17/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Heidi, >I think the point is the HEAT that the CHO sustain and not the fat in which >their fried, if at all. Extruded cereals (no extra fat involved) have higher >acrylimide count. see the quote below from Journal of Agricultural and Food >Chemistry August 14, 2002 I agree. And coconut oil does not allow for very hot frying (it smokes!). My instinct is that low heat, long frying, even though it browns the bottom, does not do whatever chemical reaction it is that they caught. But also, it is some sort of chemical reaction -- so the more reactive oils would do it more. Coconut oil reacts with plastic, I don't know about carbs though. Pork fat doesn't react with much of anything, AFAIK. But PUFAs are very reactive, and newer, which may be why this hasn't come up earlier. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 At 01:11 AM 8/18/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Heck, even now, most of the world isn't wealthy enough to procure >cookware. They mostly cook by boiling gruels and soups. So...I >wouldn't be too sure that they fried their potatoes. In fact, >potatoes themselves are a fairly recent addition to the human larder >(with the exception of south america). > > Seems like " fried collards " were a staple in the last century -- cast iron skillets were pretty much in use in the last century. Well, by frying I guess I mean sauteeing, or whatever. Anyway, I was talking about my immediate relatives: my grandfather left a journal which is really interesting, foodwise, and they had pans. And potatoes: he said that when times were " lean " , they lived off oatmeal and potatoes. The recipes from that era include lots of cooking in pork fat. That doesn't say anything about older times, but my grandparents and greatgrandparents were rather healthy. (The family story is that great-granddad died at 96. He was drunk, walking home from a party late at night, and fell off a bridge!). Acrylamides are produced from any starch in combination with some [unknown] combination of heat and oil. And, I would think, not all oils (oils are SOOO different from each other, chemically: starches aren't nearly so different, I think). So they would have been an issue before potatoes, if they are an issue. The idea of a flat rock or grill or *something* to cook carbs on is pretty old: almost every culture has a flatbread or pancake of some kind, and oil was often used (flatbread with oil is mentioned in the Bible). The Chinese have had stir-fry for a long time. You are probably right about the use of metal as cookware: I hadn't thought about it much as to what they were cooking IN or ON. The Mongols supposedly used their sheilds: " Hoe-bread " was so named because the field workers cooked it on the hoe! But cooked cakes of some kind or another seems to pre-date cheap metal. The Eastern Indians cook bread INSIDE a big clay pot which is set in a fire (there is one at a restaurant I used to go to: it makes really great bread too). And a lot of those cake/breads use oil of some kind, so they could have acrylamides, if in fact acrylamides are produced using stable oils and regular cooking. I would guess I could make hash-browns on a flat piece of pottery set over a fire: it would hold the grease, like those stoneware pots you can bake in. You would have to do gradual heating and cooling, but it would cook fine. Or a flat rock. And the American Indians made popcorn: I wonder what they popped it in? Also they had some kind of corn-cakes. Hot rocks, I suppose? Anyway, it's a fascinating question! Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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