Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 In a message dated 8/15/02 6:10:08 AM Central Daylight Time, @... writes: > I have a yogurt recipe that calls for boiling the yogurt. Does that kill > all the good bacteria? I;ve made it three times and it comes out thick, > creamy, and not too tart - just the way we love it. I'm hoping that it's > ok to boil it. > > I prefer raw milk yogurt to pasteurized. Belinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 In a message dated 8/15/02 7:09:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, @... writes: > I have a yogurt recipe that calls for boiling the yogurt. Does that kill all > the good bacteria? I;ve made it three times and it comes out thick, creamy, > and not too tart - just the way we love it. I'm hoping that it's ok to boil > it. Boiling it is re-pasteurizing it. It does kill the bacteria, and most of the enzymes (if there are any left). If you are using pasteurized milk then you _have_ to re-pasteurize it, to eliminate any pathogenic bacteria from competing for fermentation with your culture. The fermentation will restore _some_ of the enzymes destroyed. If you use raw milk, since it contains it's natural good bacteria that keep pathogenic bacteria in check, you _don't_ need to boil it because the bacteria in it will cooperate with your culture rather than compete with it. If you use raw milk, you will have much healthier yoghurt with all the enzymes and nutrients not only in tact but increased by the fermentation, with a wider spectrum of beneficial bacteria. If you are using raw milk but the recipe _still_ calls for boiling, the idea is most likely to eliminate any competing bacteria so the culture will win out more efficiently, but it is unnecessary. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 In a message dated 8/15/02 10:11:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@... writes: > >I'm using raw milk. Thanks for the insights. Is there an easy recipe for > >raw milk yogurt? Should I just heat the milk up to warm, add the culture > >and keep it in a warm pot for 6-7 hours? Theres been various ideas thrown around on the list, but here is the NT recipe: 1/2 cp good quality commercial plain yoghurt or from previous batch 1 quart raw milk. place 1 qt raw milk in a double boiler and heat to 110 degrees. Remove 2 tbsps of the warm milk and add 1 tbsp of yoghurt. Stir well and pour into quart sized wide-mouth mason jar. Add a further 2 tbsp plus 2 tsp yoghurt to the jar and stir well. Cover tightly and place in a dehydrator set at 95 degrees for 8 hrs. Put in fridge. I haven't made yogurt before. This seems a little more complicated than what people on this list are saying. If it's hot out, I think setting it at room temp is fine. But people said putting it in fridge is fine just takes longer. I would be very careful if you follow this not to let the yogurt get above 115, which is the enzyme-destruction point, though if it just touched that temp momentarily all should be fine. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 I'm using raw milk. Thanks for the insights. Is there an easy recipe for raw milk yogurt? Should I just heat the milk up to warm, add the culture and keep it in a warm pot for 6-7 hours? ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisMasterjohn@... Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Yogurt Question In a message dated 8/15/02 7:09:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, @... writes: > I have a yogurt recipe that calls for boiling the yogurt. Does that kill all > the good bacteria? I;ve made it three times and it comes out thick, creamy, > and not too tart - just the way we love it. I'm hoping that it's ok to boil > it. Boiling it is re-pasteurizing it. It does kill the bacteria, and most of the enzymes (if there are any left). If you are using pasteurized milk then you _have_ to re-pasteurize it, to eliminate any pathogenic bacteria from competing for fermentation with your culture. The fermentation will restore _some_ of the enzymes destroyed. If you use raw milk, since it contains it's natural good bacteria that keep pathogenic bacteria in check, you _don't_ need to boil it because the bacteria in it will cooperate with your culture rather than compete with it. If you use raw milk, you will have much healthier yoghurt with all the enzymes and nutrients not only in tact but increased by the fermentation, with a wider spectrum of beneficial bacteria. If you are using raw milk but the recipe _still_ calls for boiling, the idea is most likely to eliminate any competing bacteria so the culture will win out more efficiently, but it is unnecessary. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 I don't bother to warm it up. I just add culture and leave it in my laundry room which is about 90deg in this summer heat. I am told it works at room tempas well. Someone else posted that they just put it in the refrigerator and it takes a couple of days to Yogue. At 06:23 PM 8/15/02, you wrote: >I'm using raw milk. Thanks for the insights. Is there an easy recipe for >raw milk yogurt? Should I just heat the milk up to warm, add the culture >and keep it in a warm pot for 6-7 hours? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ChrisMasterjohn@... > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 7:40 AM > Subject: Re: Yogurt Question > > > In a message dated 8/15/02 7:09:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > @... > writes: > > > I have a yogurt recipe that calls for boiling the yogurt. Does that > kill > all > > the good bacteria? I;ve made it three times and it comes out thick, > creamy, > > and not too tart - just the way we love it. I'm hoping that it's ok to > boil > > it. > > Boiling it is re-pasteurizing it. It does kill the bacteria, and most > of the > enzymes (if there are any left). If you are using pasteurized milk > then you > _have_ to re-pasteurize it, to eliminate any pathogenic bacteria from > competing for fermentation with your culture. The fermentation will > restore > _some_ of the enzymes destroyed. If you use raw milk, since it > contains it's > natural good bacteria that keep pathogenic bacteria in check, you _don't_ > need to boil it because the bacteria in it will cooperate with your > culture > rather than compete with it. If you use raw milk, you will have much > healthier yoghurt with all the enzymes and nutrients not only in tact but > increased by the fermentation, with a wider spectrum of beneficial > bacteria. > If you are using raw milk but the recipe _still_ calls for boiling, the > idea > is most likely to eliminate any competing bacteria so the culture will win > out more efficiently, but it is unnecessary. > > Chris > > ____ > > " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a > heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, > birds, and > animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the > sight of > them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense > compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to > bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. > Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies > of the > truth, and for those who do them wrong. " > > --Saint Isaac the Syrian > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 What would be the purpose of heating the milk to 110 degrees if you're going to culture at a lower temperature? Also in the past when I made yogurt pre NT--I haven't for a long time--I remember reading that the yogurt had to be cultured at 110 derees or so or else the bacteria you wanted wouldn't grow well. Does the yogurt made at room temperature or lower temperature use different strains of bacteria? One last yogurt question, does anyone have a sense for how the various milk ferments: kefir, yogurt, Pima, Fil Mjolk, etc. compare as far as probiotic quality and ability to keep the gut flora healthy? Is there any benefit to using more than one other than for variety and spice and fun? -- >>>>>>Theres been various ideas thrown around on the list, but here is the NT recipe: 1/2 cp good quality commercial plain yoghurt or from previous batch 1 quart raw milk. place 1 qt raw milk in a double boiler and heat to 110 degrees. Remove 2 tbsps of the warm milk and add 1 tbsp of yoghurt. Stir well and pour into quart sized wide-mouth mason jar. Add a further 2 tbsp plus 2 tsp yoghurt to the jar and stir well. Cover tightly and place in a dehydrator set at 95 degrees for 8 hrs. Put in fridge. I haven't made yogurt before. This seems a little more complicated than what people on this list are saying. If it's hot out, I think setting it at room temp is fine. But people said putting it in fridge is fine just takes longer. I would be very careful if you follow this not to let the yogurt get above 115, which is the enzyme-destruction point, though if it just touched that temp momentarily all should be fine. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 --- What native microorganisms are in the raw milk anyway? And in the whey? Dennis In @y..., " Pellicer " <@H...> wrote: > What would be the purpose of heating the milk to 110 degrees if you're going > to culture at a lower temperature? > > Also in the past when I made yogurt pre NT--I haven't for a long time--I > remember reading that the yogurt had to be cultured at 110 derees or so or > else the bacteria you wanted wouldn't grow well. Does the yogurt made at > room temperature or lower temperature use different strains of bacteria? <><<><><>>><<>My guess is yes. Dennis One last yogurt question, does anyone have a sense for how the various milk > ferments: kefir, yogurt, Pima, Fil Mjolk, etc. compare as far as probiotic > quality and ability to keep the gut flora healthy? Is there any benefit to > using more than one other than for variety and spice and fun? > -- > > >>>>>>Theres been various ideas thrown around on the list, but here is the > NT > recipe: > > 1/2 cp good quality commercial plain yoghurt or from previous batch > 1 quart raw milk. > > place 1 qt raw milk in a double boiler and heat to 110 degrees. Remove 2 > tbsps of the warm milk and add 1 tbsp of yoghurt. Stir well and pour into > quart sized wide-mouth mason jar. Add a further 2 tbsp plus 2 tsp yoghurt > to > the jar and stir well. Cover tightly and place in a dehydrator set at 95 > degrees for 8 hrs. Put in fridge. > > I haven't made yogurt before. This seems a little more complicated than > what > people on this list are saying. If it's hot out, I think setting it at room > temp is fine. But people said putting it in fridge is fine just takes > longer. I would be very careful if you follow this not to let the yogurt > get > above 115, which is the enzyme-destruction point, though if it just touched > that temp momentarily all should be fine. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 and Dennis, and others, This is my understanding, albeit a weak one: The gut flora is composed of hundreds of microorganisms. The best way to keep it healthy is to get the widest spectrum of microorganisms possible, consuming a wide range of cultured foods/drinks, as well as naturally fermented. I don't know if this answers the other question or not, but all life has a natural coating of the ubiquitous lactobacillus bacteria, I guess as some sort of symbiotic relationship, the lacto-buggies protect from bacterial invasion I assume, like they do in us, and I think that they are an extremely wide range of bacteria. I imagine there are tens or maybe even hundreds of different bacteria that naturally exist like this, as I believe their coating of veggies, dairy, etc, is similar to their naturally existing in our gut, where _we_ have hundreds. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 In a message dated 8/16/02 7:47:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, s.fisher22@... writes: > -------->there are approx. 100 trillion micro-organisms living in our > digestive tract! (about 4 lbs.) LOL composed of about 400-500 different > types, but about 20 types make up 75% of gut flora, according to Lipski in > " digestive wellness. " Right, I meant different types ;-) > Bifido bacteria and some forms of lactic acid producing ones have been the > most studied, i believe and are known to be beneficial. i have no idea is a > *wide* spectrum is better than concentrating the ones we *know* are > beneficial or not...but if so, then kefir has it over yogurt, by far! Well, this is just a more or less _un_educated guess, but does the natural existence of bugs in our gut reflect (at least as far as the lacto-buggies) the natural existence that occur during lacto-fermentation? I thought maybe so, in which case, it seems using that method might best sustain the balance. And does kefir have all of the same buggies yoghurt has? If not, perhaps it is best to have some of both? Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 >>>The gut flora is composed of hundreds of microorganisms. The best way to keep it healthy is to get the widest spectrum of microorganisms possible, consuming a wide range of cultured foods/drinks, as well as naturally fermented. -------->there are approx. 100 trillion micro-organisms living in our digestive tract! (about 4 lbs.) LOL composed of about 400-500 different types, but about 20 types make up 75% of gut flora, according to Lipski in " digestive wellness. " Bifido bacteria and some forms of lactic acid producing ones have been the most studied, i believe and are known to be beneficial. i have no idea is a *wide* spectrum is better than concentrating the ones we *know* are beneficial or not...but if so, then kefir has it over yogurt, by far! Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 I agree with the 110. I've been making raw goat's milk yogurt for awhile and have had no luck if the temp is much below that. I started with a store bought yogurt culture (no luck with yogurt from the container with the raw milk and don't know why). I heat the milk to about 110, add about a teaspoon of gelatin, and put the container in my food dehydrator for 6-8 hours. I had to keep a thermometer in the yogurt to be sure the temp stays below 114. Food dehydrators are not always very accurate. At 95 I get nothing but hot milk even leaving it to culture for 8 hours...go figure?? My yogurt is still very, very runny even with the gelatin. But since I use it in smoothies I don't care. The only way I've gotten thick yogurt is with much higher temperatures. Lynn --- Pellicer <@...> wrote: > What would be the purpose of heating the milk to 110 > degrees if you're going > to culture at a lower temperature? > > Also in the past when I made yogurt pre NT--I > haven't for a long time--I > remember reading that the yogurt had to be cultured > at 110 derees or so or > else the bacteria you wanted wouldn't grow well. > Does the yogurt made at > room temperature or lower temperature use different > strains of bacteria? > > One last yogurt question, does anyone have a sense > for how the various milk > ferments: kefir, yogurt, Pima, Fil Mjolk, etc. > compare as far as probiotic > quality and ability to keep the gut flora healthy? > Is there any benefit to > using more than one other than for variety and spice > and fun? > -- > > >>>>>>Theres been various ideas thrown around on > the list, but here is the > NT > recipe: > > 1/2 cp good quality commercial plain yoghurt or from > previous batch > 1 quart raw milk. > > place 1 qt raw milk in a double boiler and heat to > 110 degrees. Remove 2 > tbsps of the warm milk and add 1 tbsp of yoghurt. > Stir well and pour into > quart sized wide-mouth mason jar. Add a further 2 > tbsp plus 2 tsp yoghurt > to > the jar and stir well. Cover tightly and place in a > dehydrator set at 95 > degrees for 8 hrs. Put in fridge. > > I haven't made yogurt before. This seems a little > more complicated than > what > people on this list are saying. If it's hot out, I > think setting it at room > temp is fine. But people said putting it in fridge > is fine just takes > longer. I would be very careful if you follow this > not to let the yogurt > get > above 115, which is the enzyme-destruction point, > though if it just touched > that temp momentarily all should be fine. > > Chris > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Part of the original question asked (I think) was why would you heat milk so high if you were going to culture it at a lower temp. From my understanding, the enzymes in the milk won't allow the yogurt to culture properly. I make yogurt with homemade nutmilks often. I heat it to thicken the milk. This is the first place I have heard about making raw yogurt and you better belive that the next time I get ahold of some raw milk I won't spoil it by heating. However it will be interesting to see the difference in the heated and not heated yogurts. Carina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 > Bifido bacteria and some forms of lactic acid producing ones have been the > most studied, i believe and are known to be beneficial. i have no idea is a > *wide* spectrum is better than concentrating the ones we *know* are > beneficial or not...but if so, then kefir has it over yogurt, by far! >>>>Well, this is just a more or less _un_educated guess, but does the natural existence of bugs in our gut reflect (at least as far as the lacto-buggies) the natural existence that occur during lacto-fermentation? ------->from what i've read, our gut flora reflects whatever our diet is and humans can have very different colonies depending on their diet. so i guess the question is " what is a *healthy* colony and how can we make ours healthy? i think it would be safe to assume that the groups WAP studied had pretty healthy gut ecology, albeit the groups probably varied...i'm guessing the high fat/low fiber Inuit might have had a different gut ecology than, say, the swiss with their big slabs of old world rye bread...as the fiber would provide substrate for some strains of colonic bacteria...but i don't know for sure. maybe some RAFers can comment on that...doesn't AV write something about this in his book, in regards to 'aged' meat and gut flora? >>>> And does kefir have all of the same buggies yoghurt has? If not, perhaps it is best to have some of both? -------->oh, kefir has a much wider spectrum of bacteria (and yeasts) than does yogurt. from Dom, the king of kefir, milk kefir contains: LACTOBACILLI Lb. brevis Lb. cellobiosus Lb. acidophilus Lb. casei subsp. alactosus Lb. casei subsp. rhamnosus Lb. paracasei subsp. paracasei Lb. casei Lb. lactis Lb. plantarum Lb. helveticus subsp. lactis Lb. delbrueckii subsp. lactis Lb. delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus Lb. fructivorans Lb. hilgardii Lb. kefir Lb. kefiranofaciens *Lb. kefirgranum sp. nov. *Lb. parakefir sp. nov. STREPTOCOCCI/LACTOCOCCI Lactococci lactis subsp. lactis Lc. lactis var. diacetylactis Lc. lactis subsp. cremoris Streptococci salivarius subsp. thermophilus S. lactis Enterococcus durans Leuconostoc cremoris L. mesenteroides YEASTS Kluyveromyces lactis Kluyveromyces marxianus var. marxianus K. bulgaricus K. fragilis / marxianus Candida kefir C. pseudotropicalis C. tenuis C. rancens Saccharomyces lactis S. unisporus S. carlsbergensis Saccharomyces subsp. Torulopsis holmii ACETOBACTER Acetobacters aceti A. rasens (from http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html) don't know how accurate the following is, but here's a comparison of yogurt and kefir bacteria: http://www.kefir.net/kefir3.htm here they say they DO contain different types, but i'm under the impression that kefir contains the same types, and then some...? Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Just thought I would add a little something here. I have been fermenting for some time and have told others about it. Then it came back to me they decided to try it the " easy way, " and bought yogurt and pickled items from the store. They also had reactions from not noticing any benefit to not feeling so hot. 1> Many brands of commercial yogurt are pasteurized AFTER they are cultured, killing all our friendly bacteria. They also add in preservatives and other chemicals. Making yogurt and kefir are easy and nutritious, each cup has trillions and trillions of live friendly bacteria swimming around in chemical free milk (if you buy organic milk). 2> Commercial pickled products will list lactic acid on the label. However, I used to get sick when I ate commercial pickles (and still do). Couldn't figure out why I could eat homemade and not commercial. Then I was researching lactic acid and found an article that says that homemade products are composed of naturally occurring BALANCED molecules. All molecules have a mirror L = left and D = right. L-molecules are food substances and the D-molecules are not. Many of the commercial products are made with the cheaper D-molecule, or the non-food molecule. It is amazing how my taste buds did not know the difference, but my body sure did! Kat http://www.katking.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...> < > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:27 AM Subject: Re: Re: Yogurt Question > and Dennis, and others, > > This is my understanding, albeit a weak one: > > The gut flora is composed of hundreds of microorganisms. The best way to > keep it healthy is to get the widest spectrum of microorganisms possible, > consuming a wide range of cultured foods/drinks, as well as naturally > fermented. > > I don't know if this answers the other question or not, but all life has a > natural coating of the ubiquitous lactobacillus bacteria, I guess as some > sort of symbiotic relationship, the lacto-buggies protect from bacterial > invasion I assume, like they do in us, and I think that they are an extremely > wide range of bacteria. I imagine there are tens or maybe even hundreds of > different bacteria that naturally exist like this, as I believe their coating > of veggies, dairy, etc, is similar to their naturally existing in our gut, > where _we_ have hundreds. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Hi Carina, You can make unheated yogurt with pasteurized milk also. I use organic, pasteurized milk, add culture, stick it in the refrigerator for 2-4 days (until it thickens). That's it! Easy and so much more creamy and sweet...no sourness. Kat http://www.katking.com ----- Original Message ----- From: " Carina Spencer " <carina@...> < > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 5:21 AM Subject: Re: Re: Yogurt Question > Part of the original question asked (I think) was why would you heat milk so high if you were going to culture it at a lower temp. From my understanding, the enzymes in the milk won't allow the yogurt to culture properly. > > I make yogurt with homemade nutmilks often. I heat it to thicken the milk. This is the first place I have heard about making raw yogurt and you better belive that the next time I get ahold of some raw milk I won't spoil it by heating. However it will be interesting to see the difference in the heated and not heated yogurts. > > Carina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 In the live food group, people were getting differents results in yogurt making with differents milk. The results with Organic Pastures was not the same as using Claravale, both raw. They were surmising the different milks had different indigenous bacteria and therefore didn't yogue the same. Who knows. I use claravale and don't need to heat it first. Irene At 05:21 AM 8/16/02, you wrote: >Part of the original question asked (I think) was why would you heat milk >so high if you were going to culture it at a lower temp. From my >understanding, the enzymes in the milk won't allow the yogurt to culture >properly. > >I make yogurt with homemade nutmilks often. I heat it to thicken the >milk. This is the first place I have heard about making raw yogurt and >you better belive that the next time I get ahold of some raw milk I won't >spoil it by heating. However it will be interesting to see the difference >in the heated and not heated yogurts. > >Carina > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 > >>>> And does kefir have > all of the same buggies yoghurt has? Here's an interesting explanation kefir and some of the differences between it and yoghurt: www.rwood.com/Questions/q_aug_01_2001.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 I was at the health food store yesterday and asked what the difference is between liquid yogurt and kefir. They said that there is no difference. Employees!!! So, what is the difference? And can kefir be made into a creamy substance like yogurt? --- kili94 <lm324@...> wrote: > > >>>> And does kefir have > > all of the same buggies yoghurt has? > > Here's an interesting explanation kefir and some of > the differences > between it and yoghurt: > > www.rwood.com/Questions/q_aug_01_2001.htm > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 - >They said that there is no difference. Employees!!! >So, what is the difference? And can kefir be made >into a creamy substance like yogurt? Yoghurt is actually quite different from kefir. Yoghurt is made by culturing milk (or a mixture of milk and cream) with one or a few bacteria species, bulgaricus and sometimes others. Kefir is cultured with a much, much broader range of organisms, including lactobacilli, acetobacter cultures and a variety of beneficial yeasts. As to the texture, I found that homemade kefir is thicker than homemade yoghurt, though I've only ever made either as half and half cream and milk. Storebought yoghurt is thick because of two things -- heating the dairy prior to culturing, which I guess denatures some of the protein, resulting in a thicker final product, and the addition of thickeners, like pectin and sometimes even starch. Healthy homemade yoghurt made from raw dairy is quite thin compared to storebought. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Quoting Idol <Idol@...>: > Storebought yoghurt is thick because of two things -- heating the > dairy prior to culturing, which I guess denatures some of the protein, > resulting in a thicker final product... Is pasteurized milk more viscous than raw milk? The first time I tried raw goat milk, I was surprised because I thought it would be thicker, but I'm not sure whether that's because it was goat milk, or because it was unpasteurized. -- Berg bberg@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 - >Is pasteurized milk more viscous than raw milk? If so, I don't think the difference is particularly noticeable when the milk is still in milk form. Once you culture it, though, the difference can get quite dramatic. Stove-top repasteurization also makes a dramatic difference in the consistency of the final product. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Just adding my experience with raw goat milk kefir - after i 'harvest' the kefir and it sits in the fridge over night, it becomes quite thick - like a thick milkshake. I think the thickness might depend somewhat on the breeds of goats/cows and the amount of fat in their milk. mine comes from a variety of goat breeds, among them Nubian, which i think produce a high milkfat content compared to other goat breeds. Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 I had this recipe but don't have a dehydrator or an oven than I can set below 200 degrees. So I was looking for something easier. ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisMasterjohn@... Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:27 PM Subject: Re: Yogurt Question In a message dated 8/15/02 10:11:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irene@... writes: > >I'm using raw milk. Thanks for the insights. Is there an easy recipe for > >raw milk yogurt? Should I just heat the milk up to warm, add the culture > >and keep it in a warm pot for 6-7 hours? Theres been various ideas thrown around on the list, but here is the NT recipe: 1/2 cp good quality commercial plain yoghurt or from previous batch 1 quart raw milk. place 1 qt raw milk in a double boiler and heat to 110 degrees. Remove 2 tbsps of the warm milk and add 1 tbsp of yoghurt. Stir well and pour into quart sized wide-mouth mason jar. Add a further 2 tbsp plus 2 tsp yoghurt to the jar and stir well. Cover tightly and place in a dehydrator set at 95 degrees for 8 hrs. Put in fridge. I haven't made yogurt before. This seems a little more complicated than what people on this list are saying. If it's hot out, I think setting it at room temp is fine. But people said putting it in fridge is fine just takes longer. I would be very careful if you follow this not to let the yogurt get above 115, which is the enzyme-destruction point, though if it just touched that temp momentarily all should be fine. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 -it's because it was goat's milk. it's naturally more 'watery' than cow's milk. it also depends on the time of the year as it's thinner after they've had their young.- quoting from memory after a conversation with a goat's dairy farmer. I get their products in my local Healthfood shop (London UK) Dedy ----- Original Message ----- From: " Berg " <bberg@...> < > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 8:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: Yogurt Question > Quoting Idol <Idol@...>: > > Storebought yoghurt is thick because of two things -- heating the > > dairy prior to culturing, which I guess denatures some of the protein, > > resulting in a thicker final product... > > Is pasteurized milk more viscous than raw milk? The first time I tried raw > goat milk, I was surprised because I thought it would be thicker, but I'm > not sure whether that's because it was goat milk, or because it was > unpasteurized. > > -- > Berg > bberg@... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 > Just thought I would add a little something here. > > I . > <><><><><><><><><><<>Kat some molecules have a mirror image not all. However, lactic has the D and L forms. I didn't know about the nutritional value of L versus D except in the case of lactic acid. I wrote something earlier about asymmetric carbon atoms and mirror images cause the chem 101 book, interestingly enough, used lactic acid as the example. Dennis ><<<<><><><><><>>><< > All molecules have a mirror L = left and D = right. L-molecules are food > substances and the D-molecules are not. Many of the commercial products are > made with the cheaper D-molecule, or the non-food molecule. > > It is amazing how my taste buds did not know the difference, but my body > sure did! > > Kat > > http://www.katking.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ChrisMasterjohn@a...> > < @y...> > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:27 AM > Subject: Re: Re: Yogurt Question > > > > and Dennis, and others, > > > > This is my understanding, albeit a weak one: > > > > The gut flora is composed of hundreds of microorganisms. The best way to > > keep it healthy is to get the widest spectrum of microorganisms possible, > > consuming a wide range of cultured foods/drinks, as well as naturally > > fermented. > > > > I don't know if this answers the other question or not, but all life has a > > natural coating of the ubiquitous lactobacillus bacteria, I guess as some > > sort of symbiotic relationship, the lacto-buggies protect from bacterial > > invasion I assume, like they do in us, and I think that they are an > extremely > > wide range of bacteria. I imagine there are tens or maybe even hundreds > of > > different bacteria that naturally exist like this, as I believe their > coating > > of veggies, dairy, etc, is similar to their naturally existing in our gut, > > where _we_ have hundreds. > > > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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