Re: High Triglycerides

[Guest guest]

Quoting biophile410 <biophile410@...>:

> Anyone have advice for someone with high triglycerides in the

> bloodstream? Cholesterol

> level is 'normal'.

Dramatic reductions in serum triglyceride levels seems to be almost

universal among people on low-carbohydrate diets. Are you eating a lot of

carbohydrates?

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

--- <><<><I am eating lots of CHO's and I will take the test to see

if it applies to me. Dennis

In @y..., Berg <bberg@c...> wrote:

> Quoting biophile410 <biophile410@y...>:

>

> > Anyone have advice for someone with high triglycerides in the

> > bloodstream? Cholesterol

> > level is 'normal'.

>

> Dramatic reductions in serum triglyceride levels seems to be almost

> universal among people on low-carbohydrate diets. Are you eating a

lot of

> carbohydrates?

>

> --

> Berg

> bberg@c...

[Guest guest]

Hi Daphne:

I haven't paid much attention to cholesterol or triglycerides before, bu I

am currently reading Uffe Ravnskov's book The Cholesterol Myths and on page

94 he states that " . . . if you understand the fallacy of the cholesterol

hypothesis, then it will be easy for you to understand that you do not need

to bother about your triglycerides either, because even the most zealous

proponents of pharmaceutical intervention admit that the evidence for high

triglycerides causing atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease is weak,

much weaker than for high cholesterol. Thus, if it is weak or nonexistent

for cholesterol, why bother about triglycerides?

The triglyceride level in the blood depends on many factors. Normally TG's

go up after a meal. The more fats and carbohydrates you eat--and the more

alcohol you drink--the higher your TG level becomes. Almost 12 hours must

pass before the level returns to " normal. " An analysis of triglycerides is

therefore meaningless if the patient hasn't been fasting the previous 12

hours.

Furthermore, overweight people have higher levels of triglycerides in their

blodd than thin people; smokers have more than non-smokers; diabetics have

more than non-diabetics; people who lead a sedentary lifestyle have more

than physically active people; and people under stress have more than people

who are at ease. "

He goes on to explain that after each meal our triglyceride levels can be

several hundred percent higher than the fasting state and since all of us

usually eat three meals a day and drink a glass of wine or whisky now and

then our TG values are high most of the time.

Just in case you didn't know that already. But, I thought it was

interesting.

Marla

> Anyone have advice for someone with high triglycerides in the bloodstream?

Cholesterol

> level is 'normal'.

>

> Thanks,

> Daphne

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Atkins " new " (my copy says 1999 copyright) book addresses this.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " biophile410 " <biophile410@...>

< >

Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 3:35 PM

Subject: High Triglycerides

> Anyone have advice for someone with high triglycerides in the bloodstream?

Cholesterol

> level is 'normal'.

>

> Thanks,

> Daphne

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Daphne-

>Anyone have advice for someone with high triglycerides in the

>bloodstream? Cholesterol

>level is 'normal'.

Assuming that high triglycerides are a problem, it's likely very easy: cut

your sugar and starch intake, and boost your meat and animal fat

consumption. Presto, lower triglycerides.

-

[Guest guest]

> Anyone have advice for someone with high triglycerides in the

bloodstream? Cholesterol

> level is 'normal'.

>

> Thanks,

> Daphne

Lower your carbohydrate intake, especially simple sugars and refined

processed carbs. People on low fat diets usually have high

triglycerides. My triglycerides are 60. On low fat diet were 229.

There is a stronger link between high triglycerides and heart disease

than high cholesterol and heart disease. If your ratio of

Triglycerides / HDL Cholesterol exceeds 2.0 you are at substancial

risk for heart attack. For myself:

Dean Ornish Diet:

Cholesterol: 160

HDL 34:

TG: 229

Ratio: 6.74

NT Diet

Cholesterol: 204

HDL: 42

TG: 60

Ratio 1.42

[Guest guest]

> Hi Daphne:

>

> I haven't paid much attention to cholesterol or triglycerides

before, bu I

> am currently reading Uffe Ravnskov's book The Cholesterol Myths and

on page

> 94 he states that " . . . if you understand the fallacy of the

cholesterol

> hypothesis, then it will be easy for you to understand that you do

not need

> to bother about your triglycerides either, because even the most

zealous

> proponents of pharmaceutical intervention admit that the evidence

for high

> triglycerides causing atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease is

weak,

> much weaker than for high cholesterol. Thus, if it is weak or

nonexistent

> for cholesterol, why bother about triglycerides?.....

Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on triglycerides. High triglycerides

seem to have a stronger correlation to heart disease than high

cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website article " The Skinny on

Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/skinny.html

" Elevated triglycerides in the blood have been positively linked to

proneness to heart disease, but these triglycerides do not come

directly from dietary fats; they are made in the liver from any

excess sugars that have not been used for energy. The source of these

excess sugars is any food containing carbohydrates, particularly

refined sugar and white flour. "

The summary of a Harvard Study: " The authors conclude that blood

triglyceride level was a stronger risk factor than total cholesterol

and that such a test of blood triglyceride level taken after a

patient had fasted should be included in risk factor profiles. "

Circulation March 24, 1998;97:1027-1028, 1029-1036

http://www.mercola.com/1998/mar/30/triglycerides_risk_for_heart_attack

..htm

Another conclusion: http://www.mercola.com/1997/oct/27/heart_risk.htm

Remember in NAPD Dr. Price found health problems in the natives

studied that had used " white man food " . Sugar, white flour and

processed vegetable oils. Sugar, white flour, excessive carbohydrate

consumption and lack of physical activity are causes of high

trigylcerides as well as tooth decay,

[Guest guest]

I just saw this 4-part article this week on Dr. Mercola's site. (I

don't agree with his opinion that dairy should not be used by anyone

over the age of 2, but there are some very readable articles on his

site).

Here is the part where the article discusses how to control

triglycerides:

============================================================

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/14/insulin2.htm

============================================================

Insulin and Its Metabolic Effects

by Ron Rosedale, MD

Presented at Designs for Health Institute's BoulderFest August 1999

Seminar

(from page 2)

<snip>

What else does insulin do?

Insulin mediates blood lipids. That patient who had a triglyceride

of 2200, one of the easiest things we can do is lower triglyceride

levels. It is so simple. There was just an article in J.A.M.A., an

article and they were saying that the medical profession doesn't know

how to reduce triglycerides dietarily, that drugs still need to be

used.

It is so ridiculous because you will find that it is the easiest

thing to do. They come tumbling down. There is almost a direct

correlation between triglyceride levels and insulin levels. In some

people more than others. The gentleman who had a triglyceride level

of 2200 while on all the drugs only had an insulin level of 14.7.

That is only slightly elevated, but it doesn't take much in some

people, all we had to do was get his insulin level down to 8

initially and then it went down to six and that got his triglycerides

down to under 200.

The way you control blood lipids is by controlling insulin.

We won't go into a lot of detail, but we now know that LDL

cholesterol comes in several fractions, and it is the small, dense

LDL that plays the largest role in initiating plaque. It's the most

oxidizable. It is the most able to actually fit through the small

cracks in the endothelium. And that's the one that insulin raises

the most. When I say insulin, I should say insulin resistance. It

is insulin resistance that is causing this.

Cells become insulin resistant because they are trying to protect

themselves from the toxic effects of high insulin. They down

regulate their receptor activity and number of receptors so that they

don't have to listen to that noxious stimuli all the time. It is

like having this loud, disgusting rap music played and you want to

turn the volume down.

<snip>

============================================================

When I started reading WAPF articles (and others that they

referenced) in January, I remember reading something that said, in

essence, if your triglycerides are high, it's not a call to lower

dietary cholesterol or begin taking cholesterol-lowering medication,

it's a clue that something is likely wrong

somewhere. You just need to find out if there is a real problem,

don't just throw statin drugs at it.

So many people I know are stuffing themselves with refined carbs,

gaining weight like crazy, and coming up diagnosed as diabetic...if I

were the one discovering the high triglycerides, I think the first

thing I would then check would be the insulin level and condition of

the endocrines. And I would use the better tests for discovering

thyroid condition, since that can be tricky.

I suspect there are TONS of us who are hypothyroid from

overconsumption of soybean oil, not to mention other soy foods. As

for me, it's become extremely easy to bypass the pastries and chips

in the office kitchen. I just remind myself that they're made with

soybean oil and/or hydrogenated soybean oil. Practically everything

fast or convenient is.

I've seen a lot of improvement in my family's health from switching

to foods containing natural saturated fat, avoiding excessive refined

carbs, and soybean oil. It began with switching from 2% milk to

whole milk.

http://home.okstate.edu/homepages.nsf/toc/fatandme

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: alecwood <bill@...>

>

> Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on triglycerides. High triglycerides

> seem to have a stronger correlation to heart disease than high

> cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website article " The Skinny on

> Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

>

Hi Alec:

Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like I mentioned, this is new to me,

so am possibly at that " easily manipulated " stage yet regarding the ins and

outs of fats. Edvidently, there's so much to read and weed out who's right

or wrong. What a zoo!

Marla

[Guest guest]

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: alecwood <bill@o...>

> >

> > Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on triglycerides. High

triglycerides

> > seem to have a stronger correlation to heart disease than high

> > cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website article " The

Skinny on

> > Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

> >

>

> Hi Alec:

>

> Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like I mentioned, this is new

to me,

> so am possibly at that " easily manipulated " stage yet regarding the

ins and

> outs of fats. Edvidently, there's so much to read and weed out

who's right

> or wrong. What a zoo!

>

> Marla

Marla,

It is indeed a zoo at times but as for the issue of trigylcerides I

look at it this way. For most people high triglycerides are a result

of sugar and refined carbohydrates. Sugar and refined carbs are very

new new to the human diet dating back about 350 years. Before the mid

to late 1600s sugar was available but a pound cost a years pay for

the average person. If your read Sugar Blues and Nutrition and

Physical Degeneration your quickly realize that sugar and white flour

should never be consumed by humans.

[Guest guest]

Hello,

Regarding High Blood Pressure

Is anyone on this list using natural holistic means

to lower High Blood Pressure?

Carol from Children's Health Watch

----- Original Message -----

From: alecwood

Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 10:02 PM

Subject: Re: High Triglycerides

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: alecwood <bill@o...>

> >

> > Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on triglycerides. High

triglycerides

> > seem to have a stronger correlation to heart disease than high

> > cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website article " The

Skinny on

> > Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

> >

>

> Hi Alec:

>

> Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like I mentioned, this is new

to me,

> so am possibly at that " easily manipulated " stage yet regarding the

ins and

> outs of fats. Edvidently, there's so much to read and weed out

who's right

> or wrong. What a zoo!

>

> Marla

Marla,

It is indeed a zoo at times but as for the issue of trigylcerides I

look at it this way. For most people high triglycerides are a result

of sugar and refined carbohydrates. Sugar and refined carbs are very

new new to the human diet dating back about 350 years. Before the mid

to late 1600s sugar was available but a pound cost a years pay for

the average person. If your read Sugar Blues and Nutrition and

Physical Degeneration your quickly realize that sugar and white flour

should never be consumed by humans.

[Guest guest]

Alecwood,

Hi! Please help me to understand something. I

thought that triglycerides are fats. Why do they go

up when sugar and starchy carbos are eaten? I know

that insulin will rise, but why triglycerides?

Thanks,

--- alecwood <bill@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: alecwood <bill@o...>

> > >

> > > Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on

> triglycerides. High

> triglycerides

> > > seem to have a stronger correlation to heart

> disease than high

> > > cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website

> article " The

> Skinny on

> > > Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

> > >

> >

> > Hi Alec:

> >

> > Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like I

> mentioned, this is new

> to me,

> > so am possibly at that " easily manipulated " stage

> yet regarding the

> ins and

> > outs of fats. Edvidently, there's so much to read

> and weed out

> who's right

> > or wrong. What a zoo!

> >

> > Marla

>

> Marla,

>

> It is indeed a zoo at times but as for the issue of

> trigylcerides I

> look at it this way. For most people high

> triglycerides are a result

> of sugar and refined carbohydrates. Sugar and

> refined carbs are very

> new new to the human diet dating back about 350

> years. Before the mid

> to late 1600s sugar was available but a pound cost a

> years pay for

> the average person. If your read Sugar Blues and

> Nutrition and

> Physical Degeneration your quickly realize that

> sugar and white flour

> should never be consumed by humans.

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

, triglycerides are derived from the food you eat but very

easily from sugar/starch. Simply put when consumed in excess this

conversion happens in excess. This is one way.

Underactive Thyroid, estrogen supplementation or endogenous excess,

and blood sugar/carb handling problems (involving anything from

stomach, to liver, to intestine, to gallbladder) all can be the cause

as to why triglycerides are up.

I hope this helps,

Dr. Marasco

Cincinnati, OH

> > >

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: alecwood <bill@o...>

> > > >

> > > > Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on

> > triglycerides. High

> > triglycerides

> > > > seem to have a stronger correlation to heart

> > disease than high

> > > > cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website

> > article " The

> > Skinny on

> > > > Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

> > > >

> > >

> > > Hi Alec:

> > >

> > > Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like I

> > mentioned, this is new

> > to me,

> > > so am possibly at that " easily manipulated " stage

> > yet regarding the

> > ins and

> > > outs of fats. Edvidently, there's so much to read

> > and weed out

> > who's right

> > > or wrong. What a zoo!

> > >

> > > Marla

> >

> > Marla,

> >

> > It is indeed a zoo at times but as for the issue of

> > trigylcerides I

> > look at it this way. For most people high

> > triglycerides are a result

> > of sugar and refined carbohydrates. Sugar and

> > refined carbs are very

> > new new to the human diet dating back about 350

> > years. Before the mid

> > to late 1600s sugar was available but a pound cost a

> > years pay for

> > the average person. If your read Sugar Blues and

> > Nutrition and

> > Physical Degeneration your quickly realize that

> > sugar and white flour

> > should never be consumed by humans.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Carol I'm sure there are and I have worked with inumerable clients on

this from a dietary perspective.

DMM

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: alecwood <bill@o...>

> > >

> > > Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on triglycerides. High

> triglycerides

> > > seem to have a stronger correlation to heart disease than high

> > > cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website article " The

> Skinny on

> > > Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

> > >

> >

> > Hi Alec:

> >

> > Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like I mentioned, this is

new

> to me,

> > so am possibly at that " easily manipulated " stage yet regarding

the

> ins and

> > outs of fats. Edvidently, there's so much to read and weed out

> who's right

> > or wrong. What a zoo!

> >

> > Marla

>

> Marla,

>

> It is indeed a zoo at times but as for the issue of trigylcerides

I

> look at it this way. For most people high triglycerides are a

result

> of sugar and refined carbohydrates. Sugar and refined carbs are

very

> new new to the human diet dating back about 350 years. Before the

mid

> to late 1600s sugar was available but a pound cost a years pay

for

> the average person. If your read Sugar Blues and Nutrition and

> Physical Degeneration your quickly realize that sugar and white

flour

> should never be consumed by humans.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

>I

>thought that triglycerides are fats. Why do they go

>up when sugar and starchy carbos are eaten? I know

>that insulin will rise, but why triglycerides?

The body can quite easily convert carbs to fat. (That's why starches and

sugars are so fattening.) The body's ability to store glycogen is very

limited, so when the body gets a huge surge of sugars and/or starches, it

has no other way to handle it then to convert much of it into triglycerides.

-

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your easy explanation. But, isn't the same

thing happening when a person consumes fat. Also, I

read here awhile ago, that protein will also cause an

insulin response. So, it seems it's all related.

--- Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> -

>

> >I

> >thought that triglycerides are fats. Why do they

> go

> >up when sugar and starchy carbos are eaten? I know

> >that insulin will rise, but why triglycerides?

>

> The body can quite easily convert carbs to fat.

> (That's why starches and

> sugars are so fattening.) The body's ability to

> store glycogen is very

> limited, so when the body gets a huge surge of

> sugars and/or starches, it

> has no other way to handle it then to convert much

> of it into triglycerides.

>

>

>

>

> -

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

In most cases, addressing magnesium deficiency will balance blood pressure.

Go to any search engine and you will find that magnesium is a key factor in

many, many diseases, AND it is the most common deficiency!

The exciting part is that when one begins to take magnesium an improvement

is usually noticed within 24 hours.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " drmichaelmarasco " <mmarasco@...>

< >

Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: High Triglycerides

> Carol I'm sure there are and I have worked with inumerable clients on

> this from a dietary perspective.

>

> DMM

>

>

> > >

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: alecwood <bill@o...>

> > > >

> > > > Uffe Ravnskov is IMHO incorrect on triglycerides. High

> > triglycerides

> > > > seem to have a stronger correlation to heart disease than high

> > > > cholesterol. Here is a quote from WAPF website article " The

> > Skinny on

> > > > Fats " , by Enig and Sally Fallon:

> > > >

> > >

> > > Hi Alec:

> > >

> > > Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like I mentioned, this is

> new

> > to me,

> > > so am possibly at that " easily manipulated " stage yet regarding

> the

> > ins and

> > > outs of fats. Edvidently, there's so much to read and weed out

> > who's right

> > > or wrong. What a zoo!

> > >

> > > Marla

> >

> > Marla,

> >

> > It is indeed a zoo at times but as for the issue of trigylcerides

> I

> > look at it this way. For most people high triglycerides are a

> result

> > of sugar and refined carbohydrates. Sugar and refined carbs are

> very

> > new new to the human diet dating back about 350 years. Before the

> mid

> > to late 1600s sugar was available but a pound cost a years pay

> for

> > the average person. If your read Sugar Blues and Nutrition and

> > Physical Degeneration your quickly realize that sugar and white

> flour

> > should never be consumed by humans.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

-

>But, isn't the same

>thing happening when a person consumes fat. Also, I

>read here awhile ago, that protein will also cause an

>insulin response. So, it seems it's all related.

It's not actually all that similar, though everything certainly is related.

The human system didn't evolve to handle much in the way of sugar or

starch, because there WAS no free sugar to speak of, except for the

occasional bit of honey and some fruit every now and then. Remember that

people weren't keeping bees during the vast majority of our evolution, or

growing fruits and selectively breeding them to be sweeter and larger and

to bear more and for a longer period of time. The amount of available

starch was likewise minuscule compared to what we can find today, also

because of the lack of agriculture and selective breeding. So the huge

boost in triglyceride levels resulting from starch and sugar

overconsumption is basically a malfunction in the face of conditions the

body wasn't designed to handle -- a huge, sudden overload of simple sugars

resulting from the rapid digestion of lots of sugar and starch.

One important consideration in comparing the digestion of fats versus

sugars and starches is that fat digestion is much slower than carb

digestion. If you look at glycemic index charts, you'll see that starchy

foods hit extremely quickly, often even faster than sugars. Fats, however,

particularly long-chain saturated fats, take time. So you get a nice even

flow of energy from eating them, and your body gets to handle them

gradually, even if you gorge on fat. Furthermore, digestion breaks down

the fats, which generally arrive as triglycerides, into fatty acids, and

then oxidizes some of them for energy and uses others for structural raw

materials. It's true that excess can be turned into depot fat, but it's

actually much less likely than with carbs, because the body can only handle

small amounts of carbs but evolved to handle large quantities of fat.

As to insulin, it's important to remember that insulin is not bad or evil

or undesirable. It's necessary for life, and it has a very complex role in

our body. The problem is overproduction of insulin, not insulin

itself. It's basically a matter of context. Insulin is actually required

to move certain nutrients into muscle cells, for example, but when a vast

overload of sugar hits the body, the body will respond to insulin mainly by

storing that sugar away, and as a result of massive insulin overdoses,

cells will eventually become resistant to insulin in an attempt to

normalize the system. This is why eating lots of fat will help you lose

weight -- unless you're also eating lots of carbs too, which provokes

excess insulin production which then stimulates the body to store the fat

rather than burning it and pushing your whole body onto a fat-burning

metabolic pathway.

-

[Guest guest]

,

Realize that this is not just from sugar/carb consumption. There are

plenty of people who eat the horribly typical american diet and don't

have high triglycerides. High triglycerides are an indication of a

pathological problem with sugar/starch handling. The carbs don't

cause the problem, the inability to handle the sugar/carb load is the

problem. This is why typically following a low carb or a the very

least no sugar/no starch diet is a common remedy for such a

situation. If other organ/gland issues are present as I mentioned in

my earlier post, from long term sugar/starch abuse, then it is likely

other supplemental approaches may be needed in addition to dietary

change.

DMM

> > -

> >

> > >I

> > >thought that triglycerides are fats. Why do they

> > go

> > >up when sugar and starchy carbos are eaten? I know

> > >that insulin will rise, but why triglycerides?

> >

> > The body can quite easily convert carbs to fat.

> > (That's why starches and

> > sugars are so fattening.) The body's ability to

> > store glycogen is very

> > limited, so when the body gets a huge surge of

> > sugars and/or starches, it

> > has no other way to handle it then to convert much

> > of it into triglycerides.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> Alecwood,

>

> Hi! Please help me to understand something. I

> thought that triglycerides are fats. Why do they go

> up when sugar and starchy carbos are eaten? I know

> that insulin will rise, but why triglycerides?

Excessive carbs, especially simple sugars are quickly converted to

triglycerides.

[Guest guest]

I think I understand from all the explanations how triglycerides are

produced and what needs to be done to lower it, but how does it cause heart

disease? Are triglycerides what causes atherosclerosis? Or some other form

of heart disease? Or is this a dumb question? I read Price's NAPD which I

thought was excellent and can see the connection with disease and tooth

decay, etc. but I wonder if it's the triglycerides that causes the heart

disease. Kinda of like the cholesterol argument. The link to Mercola

http://www.mercola.com/1997/oct/27/heart_risk.htm stated the following:

" However, it has not been clear if triglyceride level could predict heart

attack risk, despite years of research. "

I reserved the book Sugar Blues by Duffy at the library. Does he go

over this stuff in that book?

Marla

[Guest guest]

Oops, did the article mean " It has not been clear *until now*? If that's

the case, I still am leary about the comparisons it makes to HDL and LDL

cholesterol. Does this mean that Ravnskov is wrong again and that the HDL

and LDL *do* matter? Ravnskov makes a big deal in his book that HDL/LDL

ratios make *no* difference to heart attack risks, so why is triglycerides

being compared to it as if it did matter and that it's an even better

indicator? Maybe it would be better to see the actual report rather than

the abstract. That was another point Ravnskov makes in his book that the

abstracts clearly state the opposite of what the actual studies indicate.

Most people only read the abstracts and never realize that the studies don't

support the conclusions in the abstracts.

Marla

----- Original Message -----

From: Marla <talithakumi@...>

> I think I understand from all the explanations how triglycerides are

> produced and what needs to be done to lower it, but how does it cause

heart

> disease? Are triglycerides what causes atherosclerosis? Or some other

form

> of heart disease? Or is this a dumb question? I read Price's NAPD which

I

> thought was excellent and can see the connection with disease and tooth

> decay, etc. but I wonder if it's the triglycerides that causes the heart

> disease. Kinda of like the cholesterol argument. The link to Mercola

> http://www.mercola.com/1997/oct/27/heart_risk.htm stated the following:

> " However, it has not been clear if triglyceride level could predict heart

> attack risk, despite years of research. "

>

> I reserved the book Sugar Blues by Duffy at the library. Does he

go

> over this stuff in that book?

>

> Marla

>

[Guest guest]

It is an important distinction to make that triglycerides will rise

upon eating, however triglyceride levels in a healthy individual will

drop to normal levels after a 12 hour fast which is the ONLY time a

blood draw for triglycerides should be done. It is for this reason

that most, if not all of the research regarding triglycerides and

their correlation to heart disease is completely innacurate.

Pathologic triglyceride levels are NOT CAUSED by excess carb

consumption. They are caused by a breakdown in the carbhydrate

digestion and absorbtion mechanisms. If carbs in and of themselves

CAUSED high triglycerides 100% of Americans would have triglycerides

of 10,000 considering how excessively carbs are consumed. Years ago

when I was a vegetarian in college consuming 90% of my diet in carbs

and mostly sugars and starches my triglycerides were ridiculously

low. By any reasonable standard dangerously low. They have risen to

much more reliable levels since making animal proteins and fats

staples and removing the bulk of those carbs. I am a low(er) carb

advocate however the carbs in and of themselves are not evil, they

don't " cause " these lipid pathologies. These are the same assuming

sweeping generalizations that the low fat, diet-heart people make

about NT style eating. They are obviously wrong however their lack

of precision and intellectual honesty should not preclude ours.

DMM

> > Alecwood,

> >

> > Hi! Please help me to understand something. I

> > thought that triglycerides are fats. Why do they go

> > up when sugar and starchy carbos are eaten? I know

> > that insulin will rise, but why triglycerides?

>

> Excessive carbs, especially simple sugars are quickly converted to

> triglycerides.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am wondering what causes the differences among people in the way

they handle starches and sugars? Is it a genetic factor? Do high

tryglyceride problems, due to the breakdown of digestion, plague most

people who eat overloads of sugary and starchy foods? Why not

everyone?

What is considered a healthy level of triglycerides?

I am finding this discussion extremely interesting. Thanks for the in

depth information.

Sheila

> > > Alecwood,

> > >

> > > Hi! Please help me to understand something. I

> > > thought that triglycerides are fats. Why do they go

> > > up when sugar and starchy carbos are eaten? I know

> > > that insulin will rise, but why triglycerides?

> >

> > Excessive carbs, especially simple sugars are quickly converted

to

> > triglycerides.

[Guest guest]

>>>That was another point Ravnskov makes in his book that the

abstracts clearly state the opposite of what the actual studies indicate.

Most people only read the abstracts and never realize that the studies don't

support the conclusions in the abstracts.

--->i think this is an important point. mary enig makes a similar point in

" Know Your Fats. " She said something like it's become so absurd. some

researchers are being funded by so-and-so and feel pressure to have the

outcome fit so-and-so's agenda regardless of whether the *true* outcome is

just the opposite. so sometimes you read the study, then read the conclusion

(not necessarily the abstract) and they are at complete odds!

since reading that, i've noticed it a couple of times in abstracts i've

read, that the conclusion seems to have nothing to do with the actual

results. i had to read it a few times to be sure i wasn't crazy, then

remembered what enig wrote.

Suze Fisher

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