Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Suze its more a question of intensity than anything else. Respiration and Heart Rate levels and self rating of engergy expenidture are your best indicators. Too high an intensity is the real issue/difficulty in abusive exercise. Its what takes exercise from eustress to distress. DMM > I workout for an hour about 4 times a week. The first twenty-five minutes I > spend on the eliptical (it's the only aerobics that doesn't hurt my knees). > the remainder of the time i do weight lifting. I enjoy both parts of my > workout and the results have been rapid and very satisfying. Does anyone > think 25 mins on the eliptical 4 times a week is harmful? > > Suze Fisher > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Suze- >Does anyone >think 25 mins on the eliptical 4 times a week is harmful? Probably not. Dr. Marasco hit the nail on the head -- it's more about how much you stress your body. And though I haven't used one, I'd assume an elliptical trainer will involve a minimum of mechanical stress, so if you don't overdo the speed and the duration (IOW if you don't subject yourself to too much metabolic stress) it should be fine. That said, I wonder how useful it actually is. Learning just how much of the training effect comes from muscle memory and the acquisition of motor skills, which aren't really involved in physiological health at all, was a revelation to me. A lot of the effect of aerobic exercise really just boils down to your body learning how to do whatever specific exercises you're doing more efficiently. Of course the energy expenditure can, under the right conditions, aid in losing excess weight, but dietary changes even by themselves are generally much more effective for weight loss. Since aerobic exercise does little or nothing to build muscle (and in fact often _reduces_ muscle) the question becomes threefold: how valuable is the energy expenditure from the exercise, how much do the motor skills gained from the exercise generalize to genuinely valuable real-world tasks, and measured against these benefits, how much (if any) damage is the exercise doing? In your case I'm sure the elliptical is doing little or no damage, and I can't really venture a guess as to the value of the caloric expenditure, but I do wonder how well the movements required by an elliptical trainer generalize to walking and running. I've never used one, so I don't really know, but I did use a treadmill for a long time, and I discovered that if anything, it might have _impaired_ my ability to easily and efficiently walk or run on stationary ground and flooring out in the real world. The treadmill actually requires a very different gait from normal walking or running, and thus trains your body to do things " wrong " . I'd imagine the same would be so of an elliptical trainer, perhaps even more so. OTOH, when the training effect from an exercise doesn't compete with important activities like walking I'd imagine it's not a problem, and often you _want_ the training effect if you're training properly for a particular sport or other activity. Still, this difficulty with aerobics is in contrast to weight training, which can easily be done in such a way as to strengthen appropriate muscles and improve the quality of life without placing an undue mechanical or metabolic strain on the body. I notice you say you've gotten excellent results from your training regimen, which is certainly terrific, but do you actually know how much of the benefit accrues from one type of training versus the other? Not to mention how much of the " benefit " is just your body learning how to move on the elliptical trainer? Just something to think about. I certainly don't have all the answers, just a lot of questions. <g> - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 I'm just jealous that you have figured out how to schedule in a regular exercise schedule. - who hasn't really exercised since her 3 yr. old was born ----- Original Message ----- From: Suze Fisher Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:59 AM Subject: Aerobics? I workout for an hour about 4 times a week. The first twenty-five minutes I spend on the eliptical (it's the only aerobics that doesn't hurt my knees). the remainder of the time i do weight lifting. I enjoy both parts of my workout and the results have been rapid and very satisfying. Does anyone think 25 mins on the eliptical 4 times a week is harmful? Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 Running around after a 3 y/o is exercise! At 06:51 PM 8/21/02, you wrote: >I'm just jealous that you have figured out how to schedule in a regular >exercise schedule. > > - who hasn't really exercised since her 3 yr. old was born > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Suze Fisher > > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:59 AM > Subject: Aerobics? > > > I workout for an hour about 4 times a week. The first twenty-five minutes I > spend on the eliptical (it's the only aerobics that doesn't hurt my knees). > the remainder of the time i do weight lifting. I enjoy both parts of my > workout and the results have been rapid and very satisfying. Does anyone > think 25 mins on the eliptical 4 times a week is harmful? > > Suze Fisher > Web Design & Development > ><http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/>http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vz\ e3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 As for the usefulness of the training effect physiologically you are correct in that an effect is just becoming more efficient at a particular activity which in many cases is not necessarily any great feat however at the proper pace and intensity there is a physiologic benefit cardiovascularly, but in all honesty the greatest benefit of " aerobic " exercise is the repeated rhythmic movement which results in energy dissipation. If you go deep into the physiology of the body it is constantly moving, whether you consider molecular vibration, peristalsis of the intestines, heart beat, blood and lymph flow, etc... this movement generates physical energy and tension. A mechanically sound system will dissapate this energy and tension well. It is the external movement of the physiologic structure that creates the dissipative function. So as one is moving repeatedly through a run, walk, etc... provided it is not producing undue stress (which will damage the dissipative function and effect and in turn result in increased tension buliding) the result is the dissipation of this internally generated energy and tension. Refer to any text on the physics of dissipative structures for more understanding. As for the Eliptical machine. If you must be inside out of the sunshine and unstimulated by the natural world (birds, trees, sky, etc...) it is an outstanding piece of equipment in that in induces a very unique and helpful circular movement into the pelvis an its connected structures which enhances energy dissipation really well. The biggest difficulty with this machine beside the fact that it is inside is some people have difficulty using it without getting the intensity up too high. So while it certainly is not my favorite form of exercise for myself or my clients, I do own one and will use it in the winter during extreme weather and also in the case of injury or just needing an easy workout day. DMM > That said, I wonder how useful it actually is. Learning just how much of > the training effect comes from muscle memory and the acquisition of motor > skills, which aren't really involved in physiological health at all, was a > revelation to me. A lot of the effect of aerobic exercise really just > boils down to your body learning how to do whatever specific exercises > you're doing more efficiently. Of course the energy expenditure can, under > the right conditions, aid in losing excess weight, but dietary changes even > by themselves are generally much more effective for weight loss. > > Since aerobic exercise does little or nothing to build muscle (and in fact > often _reduces_ muscle) the question becomes threefold: how valuable is the > energy expenditure from the exercise, how much do the motor skills gained > from the exercise generalize to genuinely valuable real-world tasks, and > measured against these benefits, how much (if any) damage is the exercise > doing? In your case I'm sure the elliptical is doing little or no damage, > and I can't really venture a guess as to the value of the caloric > expenditure, but I do wonder how well the movements required by an > elliptical trainer generalize to walking and running. I've never used one, > so I don't really know, but I did use a treadmill for a long time, and I > discovered that if anything, it might have _impaired_ my ability to easily > and efficiently walk or run on stationary ground and flooring out in the > real world. The treadmill actually requires a very different gait from > normal walking or running, and thus trains your body to do things > " wrong " . I'd imagine the same would be so of an elliptical trainer, > perhaps even more so. OTOH, when the training effect from an exercise > doesn't compete with important activities like walking I'd imagine it's not > a problem, and often you _want_ the training effect if you're training > properly for a particular sport or other activity. > > Still, this difficulty with aerobics is in contrast to weight training, > which can easily be done in such a way as to strengthen appropriate muscles > and improve the quality of life without placing an undue mechanical or > metabolic strain on the body. I notice you say you've gotten excellent > results from your training regimen, which is certainly terrific, but do you > actually know how much of the benefit accrues from one type of training > versus the other? Not to mention how much of the " benefit " is just your > body learning how to move on the elliptical trainer? > > Just something to think about. I certainly don't have all the answers, > just a lot of questions. <g> > > > > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 >>>>I'm just jealous that you have figured out how to schedule in a regular exercise schedule. -------->it helps when you are self-employed and work from home >>>> - who hasn't really exercised since her 3 yr. old was born --------->how much does s/he weigh? have you considered curls? <G> but no kidding, i've seen some home exercises in which woman do 'baby lifting' in lieu of weight lifting Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 >>>>>>>Probably not. Dr. Marasco hit the nail on the head -- it's more about how much you stress your body. And though I haven't used one, I'd assume an elliptical trainer will involve a minimum of mechanical stress, so if you don't overdo the speed and the duration (IOW if you don't subject yourself to too much metabolic stress) it should be fine. ---->how do you know how much is too much metabolic stress? I really enjoy going very fast on the eliptical for about 5-10 mins. of my 25 minute workout. i just feel a need to release the energy, and frankly it makes me sweat quite a bit, which i believe is helping me release toxins from my body (especially lately, as my sweat has been stinky since i started taking a liver support supplement and a few chelators). i sometimes wonder if i should increase my anti-oxidant intake now that i'm putting my body through much more metabolic stress than it used to go through. although i imagine the release of toxins via sweat is simultaneously lessening the load...perhaps it all evens out in the end... Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2002 Report Share Posted August 22, 2002 >>>>>>>>As for the Eliptical machine. If you must be inside out of the sunshine and unstimulated by the natural world (birds, trees, sky, etc...) it is an outstanding piece of equipment in that in induces a very unique and helpful circular movement into the pelvis an its connected structures which enhances energy dissipation really well. --------->it is the only aerobic exercise that does not hurt my knees. i think, for those of us with bad knees, it's a good piece of equipment. however, the $5000 one that i work out at my local gym makes my foot go numb after about 18 minutes i know i have bad circulation, but i think part of it is the design of the machine itself, because my foot doesn't go numb on the treadmill, or when walking outdoors, either. but does go numb on my cheap stepper. it sucks, because the other pieces of equipment are really too harsh on my knees, plus i LOVE the motion of the eliptical. and yes, i really get going on it so my heart rate gets quite high. i sometimes feel like i have a lot of pent up energy and i just go as fast as i can to release. it feels so good, i'm not happy to hear it could be hurting me to release this energy in an intense session on the eliptical. however, i usually only go really fast for about 5-10 mins, the rest of the time i go at a more subdued pace. Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2002 Report Share Posted August 23, 2002 Suze- >how do you know how much is too much metabolic stress? I really enjoy >going very fast on the eliptical for about 5-10 mins. of my 25 minute >workout. It's hard to know or say how much is too much, and it varies very widely from individual to individual, but 5-10 minutes a few times a week is almost certainly not too much for you. >i sometimes wonder if i should increase my anti-oxidant intake now that i'm >putting my body through much more metabolic stress than it used to go >through. Yes! That's EXTREMELY important! You should strongly consider taking a little full-spectrum E complex and some C complex too before every workout. No matter how hard we try, we're just not going to get every last nutrient we need from whole foods nowadays, between depleted soils, pollution and poor nutritional history. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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