Re: Using whey as an innoculate and lactose intolerance

September 3, 2002

For a few years now I have been fermenting just about every type of food you

can think of...juices (fruit and veggie), veggies, meats, milks, grains

(which I can't eat anymore), even my ice cream!

Being lactose intolerant you might want to look to other options for

fermenting your foods. Since the whey is a by product of milk, there may be

just enough substance in it to trigger an allergic response.

I also have food allergies/sensitivities and from my experience, you do not

want to play around with these. Not only do they make you immediately

uncomfortable, but can trigger more allergies.

Here are a couple of suggestions:

1> Ferment your foods (veggies) in salt. It is very easy. If you use Celtic

type of sea salt (NEVER use that white, easy to pour salt as it rips you

up!), you will also be getting the minerals needed for health.

2> Fil Mjolk - Is like a cross between yogurt and kefir (not super thick nor

thin enough to drink), and is sweeter than yogurt or kefir. It generally is

used to ferment milk and cream, BUT it is a very adaptable friendly bacteria

and has successfully been used with NUT milks, rice milks and soy milks

(which you are allergic to).

It can be used in the same way as any other culture in that you can let it

sit and separate into " curds and whey, " so you can make different types of

cheese out of it. I plan on experimenting and fermenting nut milk, letting

it separate and making a nut cheese. Then use the whey from the nuts to

ferment some veggies. Should be interesting.

If you decide to try something like this, you may want to inoculate a couple

of batches before you actually eat any so that the milk is completely gone.

Hope this helps,

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " tomsnames " <tomsnames@...>

< >

Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:38 AM

Subject: Using whey as an innoculate and lactose

intolerance

> Hi. I'm in the process of making whey from high quality raw milk I

> bought from a farm in NY. Pasteurized milk and even yogurt have

> always bloated me badly since I was a baby (I then went through a

> year or so of soy milk hell and to this day soy tears up my insides

> if I consume it accidently) but the severity of the bloating and

> other lactose intolerant reactions do seem to be dose dependent or

> improve with the addition of cocoa to the milk. Anyways, I decided to

> try the raw milk (a three hour drive from where I live to get and I

> don't have a car) in addition to buying it for the innoculating whey,

> just to see if the reaction would occur, you know, thinking maybe the

> enzymes, lactase and rawness of it would make a difference but the LI

> reaction was actually stronger tha what I've experienced with

> pasteurized milk. I'm gonna stick with occassional yogurt to minimize

> the LI reactions, which do get worse the more high lactose dairy I

> consume. I get no reaction from swiss cheese, butter and other truly

> low lactose dairy.

>

> I've read that whey contains most of the lactose. Does anyone who is

> moderately lactose intolerant know if the whey used as an innoculate

> contributes much lactose to the fermented vegetables?

>

> If it does, can one just substitute the celtic sea salt for the whey

> in the beet kvass, sauerkraut and other fermented vegetables?

>

> One thing I was surprised to recently learn is that yogurt can often

> contain very significant amounts of lactose. I would often get very

> bloated from yogurt and I thought it strange as most of the lactose

> is supposed to be converted but I have since learned that usually

> less than half of it is converted so there is still a good amount

> there. However, whole milk yogurt like from brown cow with a natural

> sweetener causes little bloating, provided I take it not to often.

> I've read that adding a sweetener, a healthy natural one, can slow

> the release of lactose in the intestines minimizing the reaction and

> I've found it to be very true. The fat of the whole milk also helps.

>

> Interestingly, I get very bloated from frivan yougurt, a whole milk

> non homogenized plain yogurt but have very little reaction from brown

> cow (also non homogenized) that contains a sweetener and still much

> less reaction from the plain version.

>

> Anyways, the LI reaction is not comfortable and I'm curious if the

> whey contributes to a final product having much lactose.

>

> Thanks

September 3, 2002

Kat,

I'm curious of your recipies (as per your clip below). No perfection expected

or required, just some insights and experience on your part would be

appreciated.

Yours,

Ken Morehead,

Durham

In a message dated 9/3/02 12:02:14 PM, katanne1890@... writes:

<< I have been working with other things, and learning how to make breads out

of nut flour and eggs. Actually VERY good! >>

September 3, 2002

Hey thanks for the info. I think I will make a batch of whey

innoculated beet kvass and a salt (well, more salt) one and compare

the effect on myself.

I just don't want the lactose bloat. I have nothing against dairy and

love it but apparently some forms of it it don't like me.

Why have you given up grains? Did the fermenting not help with

digesting them? Do you use any grains?

Thanks

> For a few years now I have been fermenting just about every type of

food you

> can think of...juices (fruit and veggie), veggies, meats, milks,

grains

> (which I can't eat anymore), even my ice cream!

>

> Being lactose intolerant you might want to look to other options for

> fermenting your foods. Since the whey is a by product of milk,

there may be

> just enough substance in it to trigger an allergic response.

>

> I also have food allergies/sensitivities and from my experience,

you do not

> want to play around with these. Not only do they make you

immediately

> uncomfortable, but can trigger more allergies.

>

> Here are a couple of suggestions:

>

> 1> Ferment your foods (veggies) in salt. It is very easy. If you

use Celtic

> type of sea salt (NEVER use that white, easy to pour salt as it

rips you

> up!), you will also be getting the minerals needed for health.

>

> 2> Fil Mjolk - Is like a cross between yogurt and kefir (not super

thick nor

> thin enough to drink), and is sweeter than yogurt or kefir. It

generally is

> used to ferment milk and cream, BUT it is a very adaptable friendly

bacteria

> and has successfully been used with NUT milks, rice milks and soy

milks

> (which you are allergic to).

>

> It can be used in the same way as any other culture in that you can

let it

> sit and separate into " curds and whey, " so you can make different

types of

> cheese out of it. I plan on experimenting and fermenting nut milk,

letting

> it separate and making a nut cheese. Then use the whey from the

nuts to

> ferment some veggies. Should be interesting.

>

> If you decide to try something like this, you may want to inoculate

a couple

> of batches before you actually eat any so that the milk is

completely gone.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Kat

> http://www.katking.com

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " tomsnames " <tomsnames@y...>

> < @y...>

> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:38 AM

> Subject: Using whey as an innoculate and lactose

> intolerance

>

> > Hi. I'm in the process of making whey from high quality raw milk I

> > bought from a farm in NY. Pasteurized milk and even yogurt have

> > always bloated me badly since I was a baby (I then went through a

> > year or so of soy milk hell and to this day soy tears up my

insides

> > if I consume it accidently) but the severity of the bloating and

> > other lactose intolerant reactions do seem to be dose dependent or

> > improve with the addition of cocoa to the milk. Anyways, I

decided to

> > try the raw milk (a three hour drive from where I live to get and

I

> > don't have a car) in addition to buying it for the innoculating

whey,

> > just to see if the reaction would occur, you know, thinking maybe

the

> > enzymes, lactase and rawness of it would make a difference but

the LI

> > reaction was actually stronger tha what I've experienced with

> > pasteurized milk. I'm gonna stick with occassional yogurt to

minimize

> > the LI reactions, which do get worse the more high lactose dairy I

> > consume. I get no reaction from swiss cheese, butter and other

truly

> > low lactose dairy.

> >

> > I've read that whey contains most of the lactose. Does anyone who

is

> > moderately lactose intolerant know if the whey used as an

innoculate

> > contributes much lactose to the fermented vegetables?

> >

> > If it does, can one just substitute the celtic sea salt for the

whey

> > in the beet kvass, sauerkraut and other fermented vegetables?

> >

> > One thing I was surprised to recently learn is that yogurt can

often

> > contain very significant amounts of lactose. I would often get

very

> > bloated from yogurt and I thought it strange as most of the

lactose

> > is supposed to be converted but I have since learned that usually

> > less than half of it is converted so there is still a good amount

> > there. However, whole milk yogurt like from brown cow with a

natural

> > sweetener causes little bloating, provided I take it not to often.

> > I've read that adding a sweetener, a healthy natural one, can slow

> > the release of lactose in the intestines minimizing the reaction

and

> > I've found it to be very true. The fat of the whole milk also

helps.

> >

> > Interestingly, I get very bloated from frivan yougurt, a whole

milk

> > non homogenized plain yogurt but have very little reaction from

brown

> > cow (also non homogenized) that contains a sweetener and still

much

> > less reaction from the plain version.

> >

> > Anyways, the LI reaction is not comfortable and I'm curious if the

> > whey contributes to a final product having much lactose.

> >

> > Thanks

September 3, 2002

I tried everything not to have to give up grains, including fermenting. But

like anyone who has an allergy to a certain substance, even a little bit can

cause problems (for me severe pain and foggy brain), so the fermenting did

not help.

I have been working with other things, and learning how to make breads out

of nut flour and eggs. Actually VERY good!

With all my dietary restrictions I have found that " where there is a will

there is a way, " and I have actually come up with some pretty tasty foods

this way.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " tomsnames " <tomsnames@...>

< >

Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 8:50 AM

Subject: Re: Using whey as an innoculate and lactose

intolerance

> Hey thanks for the info. I think I will make a batch of whey

> innoculated beet kvass and a salt (well, more salt) one and compare

> the effect on myself.

>

> I just don't want the lactose bloat. I have nothing against dairy and

> love it but apparently some forms of it it don't like me.

>

> Why have you given up grains? Did the fermenting not help with

> digesting them? Do you use any grains?

>

> Thanks

>

> > For a few years now I have been fermenting just about every type of

> food you

> > can think of...juices (fruit and veggie), veggies, meats, milks,

> grains

> > (which I can't eat anymore), even my ice cream!

> >

> > Being lactose intolerant you might want to look to other options for

> > fermenting your foods. Since the whey is a by product of milk,

> there may be

> > just enough substance in it to trigger an allergic response.

> >

> > I also have food allergies/sensitivities and from my experience,

> you do not

> > want to play around with these. Not only do they make you

> immediately

> > uncomfortable, but can trigger more allergies.

> >

> > Here are a couple of suggestions:

> >

> > 1> Ferment your foods (veggies) in salt. It is very easy. If you

> use Celtic

> > type of sea salt (NEVER use that white, easy to pour salt as it

> rips you

> > up!), you will also be getting the minerals needed for health.

> >

> > 2> Fil Mjolk - Is like a cross between yogurt and kefir (not super

> thick nor

> > thin enough to drink), and is sweeter than yogurt or kefir. It

> generally is

> > used to ferment milk and cream, BUT it is a very adaptable friendly

> bacteria

> > and has successfully been used with NUT milks, rice milks and soy

> milks

> > (which you are allergic to).

> >

> > It can be used in the same way as any other culture in that you can

> let it

> > sit and separate into " curds and whey, " so you can make different

> types of

> > cheese out of it. I plan on experimenting and fermenting nut milk,

> letting

> > it separate and making a nut cheese. Then use the whey from the

> nuts to

> > ferment some veggies. Should be interesting.

> >

> > If you decide to try something like this, you may want to inoculate

> a couple

> > of batches before you actually eat any so that the milk is

> completely gone.

> >

> > Hope this helps,

> >

> > Kat

> > http://www.katking.com

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: " tomsnames " <tomsnames@y...>

> > < @y...>

> > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:38 AM

> > Subject: Using whey as an innoculate and lactose

> > intolerance

> >

> > > Hi. I'm in the process of making whey from high quality raw milk I

> > > bought from a farm in NY. Pasteurized milk and even yogurt have

> > > always bloated me badly since I was a baby (I then went through a

> > > year or so of soy milk hell and to this day soy tears up my

> insides

> > > if I consume it accidently) but the severity of the bloating and

> > > other lactose intolerant reactions do seem to be dose dependent or

> > > improve with the addition of cocoa to the milk. Anyways, I

> decided to

> > > try the raw milk (a three hour drive from where I live to get and

> I

> > > don't have a car) in addition to buying it for the innoculating

> whey,

> > > just to see if the reaction would occur, you know, thinking maybe

> the

> > > enzymes, lactase and rawness of it would make a difference but

> the LI

> > > reaction was actually stronger tha what I've experienced with

> > > pasteurized milk. I'm gonna stick with occassional yogurt to

> minimize

> > > the LI reactions, which do get worse the more high lactose dairy I

> > > consume. I get no reaction from swiss cheese, butter and other

> truly

> > > low lactose dairy.

> > >

> > > I've read that whey contains most of the lactose. Does anyone who

> is

> > > moderately lactose intolerant know if the whey used as an

> innoculate

> > > contributes much lactose to the fermented vegetables?

> > >

> > > If it does, can one just substitute the celtic sea salt for the

> whey

> > > in the beet kvass, sauerkraut and other fermented vegetables?

> > >

> > > One thing I was surprised to recently learn is that yogurt can

> often

> > > contain very significant amounts of lactose. I would often get

> very

> > > bloated from yogurt and I thought it strange as most of the

> lactose

> > > is supposed to be converted but I have since learned that usually

> > > less than half of it is converted so there is still a good amount

> > > there. However, whole milk yogurt like from brown cow with a

> natural

> > > sweetener causes little bloating, provided I take it not to often.

> > > I've read that adding a sweetener, a healthy natural one, can slow

> > > the release of lactose in the intestines minimizing the reaction

> and

> > > I've found it to be very true. The fat of the whole milk also

> helps.

> > >

> > > Interestingly, I get very bloated from frivan yougurt, a whole

> milk

> > > non homogenized plain yogurt but have very little reaction from

> brown

> > > cow (also non homogenized) that contains a sweetener and still

> much

> > > less reaction from the plain version.

> > >

> > > Anyways, the LI reaction is not comfortable and I'm curious if the

> > > whey contributes to a final product having much lactose.

> > >

> > > Thanks

>

September 3, 2002

I have a lactose problem and I had problems with cream and cheese too. I

found that raw cream and unpasteurized cheeses give me no problems and the

curd cheese that I make from raw milk is also fine and so is yoghurt made

with kefir and raw milk. My lacto veggies are also problem free.

But I hadn't tried the milk itself until a couple of days ago when I had

coffee with hot milk instead of the keto milk I normally use. I got half

way down the cup and suddenly it tasted off to me, which is usually the

first sign. I didn't drink any more but I had serious gut pain yesterday!

So although the raw cream and any cultured raw milk products are fine for

me I'm not going to try raw milk itself again for a while. It could be

because I heated the milk, so next time I'll try it cold but not for some

yet!

I'd suggest trying cutured raw milk products first in small quantities to

see how you react before trying milk itself.

Den

In article <al23eh+88lqeGroups>, Tomsnames wrote: