Re: Carbs and Physical Activity - Aerobics?

[Guest guest]

> -

>

> >What is your

> >background in?

>

> An uneasy mix of art, engineering and computer science. <g>

>

> >Or are you saying that fast

> >paced aerobic exercise is not a good thing at all?

> >If this is the case, I should do very well on this

> >program... I hate aerobic exercise!!!

>

> Basically yes, it looks to me like the singular goal of boosting

the heart

> rate is misplaced. There's nothing wrong with walking or sports,

or even

> training in the particular maneuvers and skills required for your

sport(s)

> of choice, but fitness training itself is something else again.

>

>

>

>

> -

My cousin, who was an active runner up to 35 miles a week in the

early to mid 1980s, has been suffering Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and

other health problems for about 15 years. I think he is also

hypoglycemic. A small amount of sugar makes him tired and weak. My

aunt has always blamed his running for the onset of CFS. Do you think

that is possible or was in the high carb low fat diet that most

runners follow?

I once heard Dr. Schwarzbien on a radio show hosted by former

Olympian Bill Tomey, say that low fat high carb diets first became

popular with athletes before being accepted by the medical community.

She pointed out that many athletes with try anything to improve their

performance even though it may cause long-term health problems. (and

she does believe low fat diets do work at first but do long term

damage).

[Guest guest]

This is a very common problem with all athletes. The levels of

stress placed on the endocrine system is overwhelming and as

pointed out the low fat diet just makes that worse and also does not

meet the greater physiologic requirements. The largest error that

occurs in the exercise world is elite athletes are used as the model.

Elite athletes are like gladiators, they will do anything (nearly) to

push themselves to compete, health is a non issue for all intents and

purposes. This is a ridiculous standard to apply to most people who

are interested in their health, well being, functionality, longevity,

etc... unfortunately on the other side, the exercise can be

mistakenly looked at as 'bad'. Humans must be active and mentally

and physically stimulated. Running 35 miles a week for some people

is stimulating on both counts. However it is rare that " regular

folk " who train a lot do it properly. They usually use a book or

coach who is versed in the gladiator style. This leaves practically

every training session reaching deep into the athletes reserves and

will ultimately leave them with a large physiologic debt to repay.

Even with the best of diets this level of abuse cannot be withstood.

Humans can train to perform great feats with little or no harm coming

to them, and quite the contrary can become remarkably fit and healthy

through physical training if done safely and properly and provided

the fuel and nutrient load required for such feats are met. Your

cousin needs about 6-8 months off. Light 15 - 20 minute walks daily

and a total revamp of his diet where he can rebuild his physiologic

reserves. Once that happens CFS is no more and he can consider

training again, but in a much more sane way.

DMM

> My cousin, who was an active runner up to 35 miles a week in the

> early to mid 1980s, has been suffering Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and

> other health problems for about 15 years. I think he is also

> hypoglycemic. A small amount of sugar makes him tired and weak. My

> aunt has always blamed his running for the onset of CFS. Do you

think

> that is possible or was in the high carb low fat diet that most

> runners follow?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Firstly the most important piece of advice I can give you is NEVER

believe the results of ANY study, unless you yourself have read it

and can confirm that the study is even valid. There is so much

contradictory info out there and unfortunately most of the research

currently being published is extremely biased and skewed. By using

only studies done in the last 3 years I could beyond any shadow of a

doubt convince you to never eat another carb as long as you lived

because of the evils of carbs and 20 minutes later I could give the

same amount of information from different sources that would convince

you beyond all doubt that you need to eat more margarine and less

protein. The point being both sides have become so committed to

proving their point instead of genuine discovery that " intellectual

dishonesty " is the only term that can apply.

In reference to bone density changes. #1 how was bone density

measured? The most common ways of measuring mbd is notoriously

inaccurate and unreliable. Even slight changes in hydration can

alter mbd studies. It is common for someone switching to a high

protein diet to become moderately dehydrated for lack of eating

veg's, water, etc... this is not an implication of high protein

diets it is an implication of the individuals not eating a complete

diet. #2 and most importantly, regardless of 1 (very suspect) study,

there are literally thousands of years of anthropological studies

clearly demonstrating the effects of grain as primary vs. protein/fat

as primary and the effects on bone density. I am not a " super low

carb zealot " however such a study smells of an agenda to make a hi

carb/low protein point.

There are many reasons as to why one would or could lose bone density

and they all involve diseased states and would have nothing to do

with consuming a whole food based diet rich in high quality proteins,

fats and yes even some carbs.

DMM

> Also, I heard on a radio show last week that a study

> was done at a major University that showed people on a

> diet of high protein, and fat; low carbos- for only 4

> weeks, showed a decrease in done density. Of course

> the answer was a higher carbo diet to prevent this

> from occuring.

>

> Question- what is causing this decrease of bone

> density and what can people on a restricted carbo diet

> do to prevent this?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- Idol <Idol@c...> wrote:

> > Alec-

> >

> > >My

> > >aunt has always blamed his running for the onset of

> > CFS. Do you think

> > >that is possible or was in the high carb low fat

> > diet that most

> > >runners follow?

> >

> > Both, probably. The huge demands long distance

> > running (or any other

> > extreme regimen of exercise) place on the body will

> > only worsen the effects

> > of bad diet.

> >

> > Here's what Dr. Ray Peat said in an interview with

> > Shomon on

> > About.com. The full interview is available at

> >

> >

> http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?

site=http://www.thyroid%2Dinfo.com/articles/ray%2Dpeat.htm

> >

> > >> Shomon: You feel that excessive aerobic

> > exercise can be a cause of

> > >>hypothyroidism. Can you explain this further? How

> > much is too much?

> > >>

> > >>Dr. Ray Peat: I'm not sure who introduced the term

> > " aerobic " to describe

> > >>the state of anaerobic metabolism that develops

> > during stressful

> > >>exercise, but it has had many harmful

> > repercussions. In experiments, T3

> > >>production is stopped very quickly by even

> > " sub-aerobic " exercise,

> > >>probably becaue of the combination of a decrease

> > of blood glucose and an

> > >>increase in free fatty acids. In a healthy person,

> > rest will tend to

> > >>restore the normal level of T3, but there is

> > evidence that even very good

> > >>athletes remain in a hypothyroid state even at

> > rest. A chronic increase

> > >>of lactic acid and cortisol indicates that

> > something is wrong. The

> > >> " slender muscles " of endurance runners are signs

> > of a catabolic state,

> > >>that has been demonstrated even in the heart

> > muscle. A slow heart beat

> > >>very strongly suggests hypothyroidism. Hypothyroid

> > people, who are likely

> > >>to produce lactic acid even at rest, are

> > especially susceptible to the

> > >>harmful effects of " aerobic " exercise. The good

> > effect some people feel

> > >>from exercise is probably the result of raising

> > the body temperature; a

> > >>warm bath will do the same for people with low

> > body temperature.

> >

> > (T3 is the active form of thyroid hormone. The

> > thyroid gland principally

> > produces T4, which circulates through the body being

> > converted to T3 on

> > location as needed. Most thyroid supplements on the

> > market are synthetic

> > T4, which is not actually exactly identical to human

> > T4, and there have

> > been a series of scandals and law suits and recalls

> > surrounding synthetic

> > T4 due to poor quality control, dosage variation,

> > etc.)

> >

> > As Dr. Marasco said, your cousin needs to lay off

> > the running for a good

> > long time and change his diet radically to rebuild

> > his system. I'm not so

> > sure his CFS and possible hypothyroidism will just

> > disappear on their own

> > without further work, but it's certainly possible.

> >

> > There's also a book he might want to check out,

> > _Body, Mind and Sport_ by

> > Douillard. I think someone else on this list

> > might have recommended

> > it, and it looked extremely interesting, so I bought

> > a copy. I haven't

> > read it yet, so this isn't an endorsement, but it

> > purports to tell readers

> > how to reduce the stress load -- and heart rate

> > elevation -- from exercise

> > to improve fitness and performance.

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry ,

the point was simply that a diet rich in high quality proteins along

with other quality nutrients is NOT going to decrease bone density.

However we could certainly design a diet that was high in protein

that would... if that was what we wanted to do. Carb restriction can

be a problem in extreme cases and in situations where protein and fat

choices are poor but should not be regarded as something to be

avoided. I personally and professionally do not think it necessary

but for those who'd follow a severely carb restricted diet should be

able to do so without much difficulty. Certainly when compared a

severely carb restricted diet can be far more nourishing and healthy

than a severely restricted protein or fat diet.

....rambling over.

DMM

> > > Alec-

> > >

> > > >My

> > > >aunt has always blamed his running for the onset of

> > > CFS. Do you think

> > > >that is possible or was in the high carb low fat

> > > diet that most

> > > >runners follow?

> > >

> > > Both, probably. The huge demands long distance

> > > running (or any other

> > > extreme regimen of exercise) place on the body will

> > > only worsen the effects

> > > of bad diet.

> > >

> > > Here's what Dr. Ray Peat said in an interview with

> > > Shomon on

> > > About.com. The full interview is available at

> > >

> > >

> > http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?

> site=http://www.thyroid%2Dinfo.com/articles/ray%2Dpeat.htm

> > >

> > > >> Shomon: You feel that excessive aerobic

> > > exercise can be a cause of

> > > >>hypothyroidism. Can you explain this further? How

> > > much is too much?

> > > >>

> > > >>Dr. Ray Peat: I'm not sure who introduced the term

> > > " aerobic " to describe

> > > >>the state of anaerobic metabolism that develops

> > > during stressful

> > > >>exercise, but it has had many harmful

> > > repercussions. In experiments, T3

> > > >>production is stopped very quickly by even

> > > " sub-aerobic " exercise,

> > > >>probably becaue of the combination of a decrease

> > > of blood glucose and an

> > > >>increase in free fatty acids. In a healthy person,

> > > rest will tend to

> > > >>restore the normal level of T3, but there is

> > > evidence that even very good

> > > >>athletes remain in a hypothyroid state even at

> > > rest. A chronic increase

> > > >>of lactic acid and cortisol indicates that

> > > something is wrong. The

> > > >> " slender muscles " of endurance runners are signs

> > > of a catabolic state,

> > > >>that has been demonstrated even in the heart

> > > muscle. A slow heart beat

> > > >>very strongly suggests hypothyroidism. Hypothyroid

> > > people, who are likely

> > > >>to produce lactic acid even at rest, are

> > > especially susceptible to the

> > > >>harmful effects of " aerobic " exercise. The good

> > > effect some people feel

> > > >>from exercise is probably the result of raising

> > > the body temperature; a

> > > >>warm bath will do the same for people with low

> > > body temperature.

> > >

> > > (T3 is the active form of thyroid hormone. The

> > > thyroid gland principally

> > > produces T4, which circulates through the body being

> > > converted to T3 on

> > > location as needed. Most thyroid supplements on the

> > > market are synthetic

> > > T4, which is not actually exactly identical to human

> > > T4, and there have

> > > been a series of scandals and law suits and recalls

> > > surrounding synthetic

> > > T4 due to poor quality control, dosage variation,

> > > etc.)

> > >

> > > As Dr. Marasco said, your cousin needs to lay off

> > > the running for a good

> > > long time and change his diet radically to rebuild

> > > his system. I'm not so

> > > sure his CFS and possible hypothyroidism will just

> > > disappear on their own

> > > without further work, but it's certainly possible.

> > >

> > > There's also a book he might want to check out,

> > > _Body, Mind and Sport_ by

> > > Douillard. I think someone else on this list

> > > might have recommended

> > > it, and it looked extremely interesting, so I bought

> > > a copy. I haven't

> > > read it yet, so this isn't an endorsement, but it

> > > purports to tell readers

> > > how to reduce the stress load -- and heart rate

> > > elevation -- from exercise

> > > to improve fitness and performance.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >