Re: Book: Dangerous Grains

[Guest guest]

At 02:15 AM 9/11/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>How does spelt figure in this? I think in NT it says spelt is a

>pre-hybridization form of wheat - does it have the same issue as

>regular wheat?

>

>Aubin

Spelt has less gliadin. Rye and Barley have a protein that is similar to

gliadin, but is cross-reactive (if you start reacting to gliadin, then you'll

likely start reacting to Rye and Barley too. The thing is, even if you are

genetically susceptible, you could probably to your whole life eating

reasonable amounts of spelt or rye or barley and be just fine (esp. if

you are eating probiotics and don't have leaky gut). But if you are

like most Americans, you eat about 40% of your daily calories in

the form of high-gluten wheat, hence the concern.

People who are already reactive have to avoid all of those grains

though. Once the immune system " learns " that gliadin (and likely

some other proteins) are bad, it reacts by creating immunoglobulins

that also tend to attack body tissue, and with this particular protein, it

doesn't

" unlearn " after a respite. The problem is that gliadin " looks " too much

like body tissue, apparently.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Cabrita Software

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

At 08:56 PM 9/10/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi All,

>I would suspect that:

> 1) when our guts are functioning well (i.e., no antibiotic history, etc)

> 2) and we process and cook our grains well

> (i.e. soaked or fermented)

> . . . that sensitivity to grain is essentially nil.

>Ken Morehead

>Durham

I guess you'd have to run a study and try it! I still haven't heard of any

tribe that eats wheat and is healthy: and the archeological

evidence seems to show that the Romans got less healthy when

they started eating it. I don't know how well their guts functioned.

Also there have been some interesting cases where we've been

sending food aid (whole wheat grains) to Africa, and inadvertently

causing mass malnutrition in the kids (about 18% of the kids got

very sick from what turned out to be celiac). The doctor talking

about it did not say what their diet had been previously. But

most of the studies are pretty sure this is a genetic thing: the

genes involved have pretty much " died out " in the Middle

East, where wheat eating evolved. Those countries DO a lot

of fermenting etc., and the gene seems to have died out

a couple of thousand years ago anyway, before antibiotics, so I for

one think the evidence points to genetics.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

At 08:15 PM 9/10/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi, where can I order that book?

>Is the name Dangerous Grains?

>Thank you,

>piimaman

Just go to Amazon and search on " Dangerous Grains " . It just came out, but

it's readily available. I'd guess it will wind up at your local health food

store or supermarket eventually: it's one of those easy-to-read books

(Unlike the really " deep " ones like Nourishing Traditions, which looks

intimidating even though it is still easy to read, and would not end

up at our local stores!).

Heidi

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:56:24 EDT, you wrote:

>

>Hi All,

>I would suspect that:

> 1) when our guts are functioning well (i.e., no antibiotic history, etc)

> 2) and we process and cook our grains well

> (i.e. soaked or fermented)

> . . . that sensitivity to grain is essentially nil.

>Ken Morehead

Interesting you should post this. I've got a friend who is a baker of craft

breads, old fashioned, historical breads. He told me that it was his studied

opinion that the problem was not gluten, but fast rise yeasts and too much of a

hurry in preparing the dough. I have no idea what he has to back it up, but he

believes in soaking and long rise and claims that people don't have the problem

with properly prepared breads that they have with modern breads. Unfortunately,

he had to give up the business because he couldn't get the volume up to level he

could support himself.

Mike E

[Guest guest]

could you put me in touch with artisan breadmaker?

bob

panamabob@...

[Guest guest]

I suspect that too. Normal fast yeast whole wheat breads make me feel

terrible but naturally leavened spelt which definitely has gluten or

any naturally leavened bread makes me feel good. Natural leavening

produces a different product.

Just tried cows milk kefir for first time and I didn't react to it.

Why would I react to yogurt (bloating, feel terrible and very tired)

and not to kefir?

>

> >

> >Hi All,

> >I would suspect that:

> > 1) when our guts are functioning well (i.e., no antibiotic

history, etc)

> > 2) and we process and cook our grains well

> > (i.e. soaked or fermented)

> > . . . that sensitivity to grain is essentially nil.

> >Ken Morehead

>

> Interesting you should post this. I've got a friend who is a baker

of craft

> breads, old fashioned, historical breads. He told me that it was

his studied

> opinion that the problem was not gluten, but fast rise yeasts and

too much of a

> hurry in preparing the dough. I have no idea what he has to back it

up, but he

> believes in soaking and long rise and claims that people don't have

the problem

> with properly prepared breads that they have with modern breads.

Unfortunately,

> he had to give up the business because he couldn't get the volume

up to level he

> could support himself.

>

> Mike E

[Guest guest]

Hi Heidi,

Hulda does her own lab work, and it is included in her book. The

focus of her work is on getting the body clean and supporting it

nutritionally until it can heal. So parasites, molds, fungus, bacteria,

yeast (of the pathogenic family), cleansing blood, liver, kidneys, bowels,

etc., and avoiding contaminated foods and environmental elements, are the

main focus of her book.

Her work is not for everyone, and is geared towards people who are extremely

ill. I met her and at first I thought she was a bit extreme, but as time

goes on all the things she has recommended, that I have tried, sure work.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

< >

Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:38 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Book: Dangerous Grains

> At 06:15 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, you wrote:

> >Ergot was one she has a whole chapter on as a problem, but I thought

there

> >were others. Most of the molds she talks about are not visible nor can

they

> >be smelled. I would be more specific, but I went to look for the book

and

> >can't find it right now. But Dr. has a very strong view of how

> >destructive these molds are.

>

> I guess I'd want to see more detail and evidence of what she's talking

> about. Plums (and most fruits) are covered in a thin layer of yeast,

> which is natural, and there are probably slight bits of mold. But

> not all molds are harmful: we breathe them all the time, and

> I'm not convinced that Vitamin C kills all molds either. It might

> do something else though that helps people, or deactivate

> something, or who knows what. I do know people can have

> allergies to just about anything, and molds are right up there,

> but my experience with allergies is that they aren't deactivated

> all that easily!

>

> On the other hand, a kid came over that was

> allergic to my cat, and his Mom said to give him 500 mg of

> vitamin C. Worked like a charm. But the issue wasn't mold,

> it was cat dander, and *ingesting* the vitamin C was what

> kept him from reacting. So I'm pretty convinced vitamin C

> keeps some people from reacting to some allergens, but

> heck if I know why.

>

> Are there studies etc. she quotes? The gluten issue has been studied

> for 20 years, it's not a new thing, and there are good lab studies.

> Has she done such studies on mold? Has anyone else? If so I'd

> love to read them!

>

>

> Heidi

[Guest guest]

> Interesting you should post this. I've got a friend who is a baker

of craft

> breads, old fashioned, historical breads. He told me that it was

his studied

> opinion that the problem was not gluten, but fast rise yeasts and

too much of a

> hurry in preparing the dough. I have no idea what he has to back it

up, but he

> believes in soaking and long rise and claims that people don't have

the problem

> with properly prepared breads that they have with modern breads.

----------->this could be tested easily enough for anyone that has trouble

with 'modern' breads. i've found traditionally prepared bavarian bread (i

think it's slow rise/slow bake, and maybe sprouted) in my local natural

foods store. you could probably find one of these traditional european style

breads in any reasonably sized city. someone who reacts to modern breads

could try one of these for a few days (or longer?) to see if they have the

same reaction. better yet, if *fresh local* breads made in this way can be

located, that would probably be better than the shipped and stored variety.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 12:28 PM 9/11/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Interesting you should post this. I've got a friend who is a baker of craft

>breads, old fashioned, historical breads. He told me that it was his studied

>opinion that the problem was not gluten, but fast rise yeasts and too much

>of a

>hurry in preparing the dough. I have no idea what he has to back it up, but he

>believes in soaking and long rise and claims that people don't have the

>problem

>with properly prepared breads that they have with modern breads.

>Unfortunately,

>he had to give up the business because he couldn't get the volume up to

>level he

>could support himself.

>

>Mike E

They'd probably have less problem. Soaking and long rise are good

things and do neutralize some of the gluten and phytates, and likely

helps in other ways (and make it taste better!).

But there are two reasons I doubt

the problem would go away, personally:

1) Much of the research now being done is done using purified

gluten/gliaden/glutenin extracts, on in vitro cells or on gluten-sensitive

animals (yes, there are strains of dogs, cats, and mice that are

gluten-sensitive:

take note, pet owners!). So the experiment will read something like:

" if x amount of gluten is fed to golden retrievers for y days, there is z

amount

of damage " . Those kind of experiments, esp. the in-vitro ones, don't allow

for a lot of other factors to be involved, like yeast, bacteria, starch,

sugars,

bad fats, etc.

2) The history of the situation is, that

hundreds of thousands of babies had been dying of gluten intolerance (even

from their mother's milk) for the last few centuries, even when people

were using brown flour and slow-rising yeasts and soaking their grains.

Some of the issues were first noticed by Napolean's doctor!

For the estimated 80% of people who DON'T have this problem,

eating artisan bread is a neat thing. My relatives in Germany

owned such a bakery also. For the other 20%, gluten may cause

an increased chance of all kinds of nasty diseases. But there

are tests to tell which camp you are in, and it's a decision

each person will have to make on their own.

(My daughter says it will be like cigarette smoking: even

after the risk is quantified, some people will want to

take the risk. She is probably right!).

Heidi

[Guest guest]

At 06:40 AM 9/11/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi Heidi,

>

>Hulda does her own lab work, and it is included in her book. The

>focus of her work is on getting the body clean and supporting it

>nutritionally until it can heal. So parasites, molds, fungus, bacteria,

>yeast (of the pathogenic family), cleansing blood, liver, kidneys, bowels,

>etc., and avoiding contaminated foods and environmental elements, are the

>main focus of her book.

>

>Her work is not for everyone, and is geared towards people who are extremely

>ill. I met her and at first I thought she was a bit extreme, but as time

>goes on all the things she has recommended, that I have tried, sure work.

>

>Kat

If something works, I say do it! As far as lab work and scientific basis, I

like

to see things from a lot of researcher's angles. Very often one person

goes on a tangent, and they may be right from an experimental point

of view, but not for the reasons they think they are. From an NT standpoint

though,

the primatives Price studied lived in a rather dirty environment, and probably

had tons of parasites, and *still* did better than the cleaner Europeans:

so I'd tend to look at other factors too.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

At 06:15 PM 9/10/02 -0700, Kat wrote:

>Hi Heidi,

>

>I have come to trust the work of Hulda (author of a Cure For All

>Diseases), and she was the one who suggested who suggested the Vitamin C for

>molds in foods.   The foods specific she mentions are nuts, grains, beans,

>rice, and surprisingly milk.

>

>Kat

><http://www.katking.com/>http://www.katking.com

I noticed the ingredients in commercial vegetable/fruit washes are citric acid

and sodium bicarbonate. Lemon juice and baking soda should substitute it.

Wanita