Belinda, CLA and grain, was Re: pastured vs. range-fed

[Guest guest]

What is CLA?

Elaine

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/14/02 10:31:58 AM Central Daylight Time,

aubinparrish@... writes:

>

> Sorry if someone else has already replied to this, I haven't had

> time to keep up with this list. Belinda, Dr. Tilak Dhiman at Utah

> State is a leading researcher on CLA in the meat and milk of

> grassfed ruminants, he says he's found that grain *at any time*

> in the life of a meat animal can significantly reduce the CLA

> content of the meat. It doesn't come back even if the animal is

> finished on pasture.

Aubin,

This seems a bit strange. We let our cows and goats into the wheat and corn

fields to finish off whatever we may have dropped or missed when we

harvested. What you are saying is that they have a significatnly reduced

amount of CLA? We have " wild " grains growing all over our pastures... There

must be something I'm not getting here.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

If you're talking about grains in the green form, Dr. Price mentioned that

cows pastured on wheat or rye grass are the richest in vitamins out of the

grasses.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/14/02 6:18:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

mmarasco@... writes:

> Remember Belinda just as rancidity and freshness are issues for

> grains fed to humans they are also an issue in livestock feeding.

> When feeding mature corn and such these are not fresh grains and

> likely to be in a highly oxidized state. While I am by no means a

> livestock expert I'm comfortable stating that your guys feeding on

> fresh green should not be a problem at all.

>

> DMM

>

Well, there's really little chance of us changing the system we have but they

are not growing greens. They get into the fields after we have harvested

either wheat hay or corn. What they get has had a chance to dry some.

Sometimes I think folks get a little carried away.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

I live here in the east, and buy pasture fed meat. They feed the cows some

hay in the winter. So it's a couple of months where the cows are on hay.

Piimaman

[Guest guest]

> What

> about the states in the west that are dry for 7-8

> months out of the year. These ranches advertise as

> pasture fed, but I'm sure that they aren't eating

> green grass most of the year. So, would it be better

> to buy meat from ranches in the east, where it rains

> most of the year; although I'm not sure what happens

> when the snow hits.

Those cattle on dry range can still have high CLA. From what I've

read, the optimal time to harvest is at the beginning of summer,

after the cattle have had all spring grazing on rapidly-growing,

green grass and before things dry up for the summer (some

snow-free areas of the west, like where I live, begin to green up

in the fall, then really rapid grass growth starts in about February

depending on the temperature). The feeding of hay or dry range

does not seem to impair the cattle's ability to make CLA later, it

just reduces it while they're actually eating the dry forage, and it

goes back up when they go on green pasture. I don't know how

long it takes the CLA to reduce in the meat after the animal is

taken off green grass and put on dry forage. The article says

about milk that hay-fed cows produce about 60% of the CLA in

their milk as those fed fresh pasture, but that even the hay-fed

cows produce twice the CLA of cows fed a typical dairy cow diet

(which is high in grains and soybeans). It seems to work a little

differently for meat, but I'd guess it's safe to assume that a

similar ratio works there (with dry forage producing less CLA

than fresh pasture but still far more than grain).

Aubin

[Guest guest]

> I live here in the east, and buy pasture fed meat. They feed the cows some

> hay in the winter. So it's a couple of months where the cows are on hay.

> Piimaman

>

Where does silage fit into the feeding picture. I would think that would be

more nutritious for winter feeding.

Kris

[Guest guest]

> I live here in the east, and buy pasture fed meat. They feed the cows some

> hay in the winter. So it's a couple of months where the cows are on hay.

> Piimaman

>

Where does silage fit into the feeding picture. I would think that would be

more nutritious for winter feeding.

---------->i live in maine and don't know of any local farm that feeds only

hay in winter. one of the larger ones feeds hay and corn sileage, from corn

they grow on the farm. others feed grain in winter (along with hay). haven't

found one yet that feeds hay or grass sileage, unfortunately.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I believe here in swtizerland they also only feed hay in winter. The cows

look good to me. We walk by their barn and go in to pet them almost every

day in winter.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

At 07:08 AM 9/16/02 -0400, you wrote:

>> I live here in the east, and buy pasture fed meat. They feed the cows some

>> hay in the winter. So it's a couple of months where the cows are on hay.

>> Piimaman

>>

>Where does silage fit into the feeding picture. I would think that would be

>more nutritious for winter feeding.

The beef we get in the northeast is green pastured in season and hay/corn

silaged in winter. I know of a dairy farm that does haylage.Corn silage isn't

considered part of grass feeding because of the small amount of corn in it but

personally the fermentation of the silage makes it a predigested food

source to

me. I'm skeptical that only hay in the cold of winter will not lead to weight

loss and ketosis.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/16/02 11:27:38 AM Central Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Wanita-

>

> >I'm skeptical that only hay in the cold of winter will not lead to weight

> >loss and ketosis.

>

> The farm I get my dairy from feeds only hay in the winter with no problems

> that I know of.

>

>

>

>

> -

>

We have no problem feeding hay in the winter either. The boys get just hay

while the milkers get some ground hay mixed with grain while we milk.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/16/02 12:49:59 PM Central Daylight Time,

wanitawa@... writes:

> Are they a commercial producer, ? I suppose with an excellent quality

> hay

> you could keep production up to not lose your farm over the winter. New

> England

> has the most depleted soils in the country due to its use over the longest

> period of time for one. I was talking more about beef and weight loss as

> they

> spend more time outside than dairy in winter it seems. Although we've got a

> herd of ish Highlands around the corner that are perfectly adapted to

> winter outside with hay only.

> Wanita

We are in TN where we get some snow and freezing weather but our girls have

adapted nicely to being outside in the winter. Calves are born out in the

field and we (being suckers) carry them into the barn for the first day or so

but the moms want out LOUDLY and out they go. Hay is all they have until they

come in to be milked.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>I'm skeptical that only hay in the cold of winter will not lead to weight

>loss and ketosis.

The farm I get my dairy from feeds only hay in the winter with no problems

that I know of.

-

[Guest guest]

At 12:54 PM 9/16/02 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 9/16/02 11:27:38 AM Central Daylight Time,

>Idol@... writes:

>

>

>> Wanita-

>>

>> >I'm skeptical that only hay in the cold of winter will not lead to weight

>> >loss and ketosis.

>>

>> The farm I get my dairy from feeds only hay in the winter with no problems

>> that I know of.

>> -

Are they a commercial producer, ? I suppose with an excellent quality hay

you could keep production up to not lose your farm over the winter. New

England

has the most depleted soils in the country due to its use over the longest

period of time for one. I was talking more about beef and weight loss as they

spend more time outside than dairy in winter it seems. Although we've got a

herd of ish Highlands around the corner that are perfectly adapted to

winter outside with hay only.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>Are they a commercial producer, ?

Yup. Licensed and everything. Raw and strictly grass-fed. It's great

stuff, and they don't feed a single kernel of grain to any of their cows.

>New

>England

>has the most depleted soils in the country due to its use over the longest

>period of time for one.

Were you the one who said there's a map of soil depletion in _Metabolic

Man_? I have the book on order, and I'm very eager to check that

out. (This farm isn't in NE, though.)

-

[Guest guest]

At 02:32 PM 9/16/02 -0400, you wrote:

,

>

>>Are they a commercial producer, ?

>

>Yup.  Licensed and everything.  Raw and strictly grass-fed.  It's great

>stuff, and they don't feed a single kernel of grain to any of their cows.

Just like anything if you've got the right tools (in this case quality

hayfield

or in New Engand the $$ and know how to make it) you can keep production up

and

have a quality product. Not saying it can't be done here.

>

>>New

>>England

>>has the most depleted soils in the country due to its use over the longest

>>period of time for one.

>

>Were you the one who said there's a map of soil depletion in _Metabolic

>Man_?  I have the book on order, and I'm very eager to check that

>out.  (This farm isn't in NE, though.)

That was Suze and what got me interested in Metabolic Man. Isn't a state by

soil/food quality map but gives you a real good relationship of where your

food

is best to come from. Albrect's work and soil mineral compositions east and

west of the MS. You'll also see in Metabolic Man that the carbo fat ratio of

20% is a beginning point to work from in metabolic typing. Based on one of the

many typing researcher chapters in the second half. Think you mentioned you

felt that low.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

> We have no problem feeding hay in the winter either. The boys get just hay

> while the milkers get some ground hay mixed with grain while we milk.

Why do farmers bother to make silage then?

Kris

[Guest guest]

I live in Vermont, and Flack family farm only feeds hay in winter, (it's

pretty rare they say) but it works. They give workshops to other farms on

grass based and biodynamic farming.

piimaman