Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Suze- Basically, don't give her any starch. Zip, zero, nada, nil. I wouldn't give her any fiber to speak of at this point either. If you want to give her any vegetable matter at all, maybe try small quantities of lacto-fermented green juice, and from easier-to-digest greens at that. Absolutely no potatoes! As to the rest, the usual BARF stuff should do well -- bones and raw meat, with a little raw organ meat in the mix. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 >>>Basically, don't give her any starch. Zip, zero, nada, nil. I wouldn't give her any fiber to speak of at this point either. ------->is this the SCD approach ? that's why i stopped with the potato. while potato worked anecdotally in my friend's experience with number of dogs, it wasn't working for mokie, and i read the part in BTVC re potato digestion, so decided to omit it from her diet. If you want to give her any vegetable matter at all, maybe try small quantities of lacto-fermented green juice, and from easier-to-digest greens at that. Absolutely no potatoes! As to the rest, the usual BARF stuff should do well -- bones and raw meat, with a little raw organ meat in the mix. ---->the ground bone caused her problems too - too much fiber, apparently, or she just didn't digest much of it in her small intestine. i'll try egg yolk again later today (most digestible protein) and try to figure out what else.... Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Hi Suze, I was wondering if l-glutamine would help? I don't know if it is ever given to pets, but my doctor and several people on this message board have had great results with it's power to heal the digestive track. Maybe someone else has tried it on a pet? I would think large doses of acidophilus would really help. Do vets recommend it? Check Dr. Mercola's web site. He is unconventional and often effective in treating extreme problems of illness. Sheila > >>>Basically, don't give her any starch. Zip, zero, nada, nil. I wouldn't > give her any fiber to speak of at this point either. > > ------->is this the SCD approach ? that's why i stopped with the potato. > while potato worked anecdotally in my friend's experience with number of > dogs, it wasn't working for mokie, and i read the part in BTVC re potato > digestion, so decided to omit it from her diet. > > If you want to give > her any vegetable matter at all, maybe try small quantities of > lacto-fermented green juice, and from easier-to-digest greens at > that. Absolutely no potatoes! As to the rest, the usual BARF stuff should > do well -- bones and raw meat, with a little raw organ meat in the mix. > > ---->the ground bone caused her problems too - too much fiber, apparently, > or she just didn't digest much of it in her small intestine. i'll try egg > yolk again later today (most digestible protein) and try to figure out what > else.... > > Suze Fisher > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 At 12:18 PM 9/13/2002 -0400, you wrote: >so now, i'm trying to figure out how to treat her colitis. i've given her >mostly bone broth and mushed potato this week (as recommended by a canine >nutritionist friend who's got a lot of experience working with colitis). i >also gave her a little lamb, and culturelle - which is lactobacillus GG. but >her stool is still very mucousy. today, i decided to remove the potato, and >try just feeding two basic foods that *should* digest in the small >intestine - pastured egg yolk and summer squash. Can dogs have pepto bismol? There is a treatment for microscopic colitis that involves 10 days of pepto: it really works wonders. Also, how about l-glutamine? Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Hi Suze, I was wondering if l-glutamine would help? I don't know if it is ever given to pets, but my doctor and several people on this message board have had great results with it's power to heal the digestive track. -------->hi sheila, Yes, it's given to pets, and i've given it to mokie. since i'm doing a sort of elimination type diet, i'm trying to keep the diet simple right now, but was considering giving her some l-glutamine. i don't know the brand i'm using as i got it from my holistic vet (she bottled it herself). does anyone have a particular brand of l-glutamine you'd recommend? I would think large doses of acidophilus would really help. Do vets recommend it? Check Dr. Mercola's web site. He is unconventional and often effective in treating extreme problems of illness. --------->i don't know about acidophilus - is it commonly found in the *colon*? for some reason i thought it was found in the small intestine. her problem seems to be specifically in the colon, so i'm trying to target that area. i'm not even sure dogs have the same intestinal bacteria that people do, but there IS some overlap from a brief list of canine intestinal bacteria that i once saw. i should try to find that reference - it might help. thanks for the ideas Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Can dogs have pepto bismol? There is a treatment for microscopic colitis that involves 10 days of pepto: it really works wonders. ---------->i *think* they can, but will have to check. do you know where i can find details on the pepto treatment? i wonder if slippery elm would have a similar effect? Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 I have read that bifidus is the most helpful bacteria for the colon. Not all yogurts or other multidophilus mixtures contain bifidus. Sheila > Hi Suze, > I was wondering if l-glutamine would help? I don't know if it is ever > given to pets, but my doctor and several people on this message board > have had great results with it's power to heal the digestive track. > > > -------->hi sheila, > > Yes, it's given to pets, and i've given it to mokie. since i'm doing a sort > of elimination type diet, i'm trying to keep the diet simple right now, but > was considering giving her some l-glutamine. i don't know the brand i'm > using as i got it from my holistic vet (she bottled it herself). does anyone > have a particular brand of l-glutamine you'd recommend? > > > I would think large doses of acidophilus would really help. Do vets > recommend it? > Check Dr. Mercola's web site. He is unconventional and often > effective in treating extreme problems of illness. > > --------->i don't know about acidophilus - is it commonly found in the > *colon*? for some reason i thought it was found in the small intestine. her > problem seems to be specifically in the colon, so i'm trying to target that > area. i'm not even sure dogs have the same intestinal bacteria that people > do, but there IS some overlap from a brief list of canine intestinal > bacteria that i once saw. i should try to find that reference - it might > help. > > thanks for the ideas > > > Suze Fisher > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Suze- >is this the SCD approach ? Kind of. I definitely don't believe dogs should be eating starchy anything. Generally speaking they'll only eat raw vegetation to induce vomiting; otherwise they mainly got vegetation partly digested from the stomachs and intestines of their prey. Hence my idea that lacto-fermented vegetable juice may be a decent substitute. >while potato worked anecdotally in my friend's experience with number of >dogs, it wasn't working for mokie, and i read the part in BTVC re potato >digestion, so decided to omit it from her diet. Starches can sometimes seem to work in the short term for crones and cholitis patients, but in the long haul they just go through a vicious cycle of flareups followed by heavy medication and surgery. It's terrible. >the ground bone caused her problems too - too much fiber, apparently, >or she just didn't digest much of it in her small intestine. I'm not sure I understand -- why would you consider bone to be fiber? Fiber is indigestible carb, like cellulose. >i'll try egg >yolk again later today (most digestible protein) and try to figure out what >else.... Some egg yolk is good, particularly if it's from pastured layers, but don't leave out the meat! One thing I don't know is which organ meats would be best in a situation like this. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 Suze- >is this the SCD approach ? Kind of. I definitely don't believe dogs should be eating starchy anything. Generally speaking they'll only eat raw vegetation to induce vomiting; --------->do you have a dog paul? LOTS of dogs eat all kinds of things including starchy foods if it's available. if you're talking about the 'wild' model - that's all well and good, but doesn't necessarily do a lot for a sick dog who needs *whatever works* be it starchy, fatty or high protein. it's an individual thing, just like with humans. otherwise they mainly got vegetation partly digested from the stomachs and intestines of their prey. Hence my idea that lacto-fermented vegetable juice may be a decent substitute. -------->well, gray wolves (which dogs are descended from) don't as a rule eat the stomach contents, according to world renowned wolf biologist, david mech. and they've been observed shaking out the intestinal content before consuming the intestines. it's theorized they're really after the *fat* that surrounds the intestines - not the contents. however, i think dogs require a good dose of probiotics and they historically got them likely from cached meat, soil, and consuming intestines and stomach with or without the contents so either way, lacto-fermented veggie juice would probably be a good thing. >the ground bone caused her problems too - too much fiber, apparently, >or she just didn't digest much of it in her small intestine. I'm not sure I understand -- why would you consider bone to be fiber? Fiber is indigestible carb, like cellulose. ---------->bone sometimes acts like fiber -although it's not technically 'fiber.' some parts are just not as digestible as others. many dogs often have pieces of bone in the stool that were clearly not digested (although they are often small bits - not anything to worry about with a healthy dog). both of my dogs have had this from time to time and mokie had it with lots of mucous a few weeks ago when i tried feeding her ground bone. as long as bits and pieces of hard objects are making it to her colon, it's not good for her colitis. that's why i'm not feeding bone to her at the moment. >i'll try egg >yolk again later today (most digestible protein) and try to figure out what >else.... Some egg yolk is good, particularly if it's from pastured layers, but don't leave out the meat! One thing I don't know is which organ meats would be best in a situation like this. --------->well, i tried lamb, which she's done well with in the past and it seemed to increase her mucous. my nutritionist friend has found that protein seems to cause more problems during acute episodes of colitis and starch seems to be the most easily digested. i'm trying egg yolks now because they are the most bio available protein source. but it's not forever - just temporarily until the mucous is under control. thanks again for your suggestions. my fingers are crossed that eliminating the potato might bring improved stool tomorrow morning. i'm literally walking on eggshells here...dreading each poop Suze Fisher Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 At the pet shelter I volunteer at we use canned pumpkin. Works great! Kat http://www.katking.com ----- Original Message ----- From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...> < > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 6:28 PM Subject: RE: colitis HELP! > At 01:53 PM 9/13/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >---------->i *think* they can, but will have to check. do you know where i > >can find details on the pepto treatment? > > www.finerhealth.com. Dr. Fine has written something like 30 > papers on gut health, and he often starts with a pepto > routine for microscopic colitis. Also a vet told me to > give some to my cat when she had problems. It seems > pretty harmless. I don't know why it works. It seems > to be the bismuth. We did it 3 times a day for > 10 days, worked great. Somehow gives the gut a rest. > > >i wonder if slippery elm would have a similar effect? > > Might work, but I doubt it has bismuth. > > > > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Cabrita Software > heidis@... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 At 01:53 PM 9/13/2002 -0400, you wrote: >---------->i *think* they can, but will have to check. do you know where i >can find details on the pepto treatment? www.finerhealth.com. Dr. Fine has written something like 30 papers on gut health, and he often starts with a pepto routine for microscopic colitis. Also a vet told me to give some to my cat when she had problems. It seems pretty harmless. I don't know why it works. It seems to be the bismuth. We did it 3 times a day for 10 days, worked great. Somehow gives the gut a rest. >i wonder if slippery elm would have a similar effect? Might work, but I doubt it has bismuth. Heidi Schuppenhauer Cabrita Software heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 Have you thought of coconut oil? Peace, Kris , gardening in harmony with nature in northwest Ohio If you want to hear the good news about butter check out this website: http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/know_your_fats.html ----- Original Message ----- From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> " " < > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 12:18 PM Subject: colitis HELP! > Hi all, > > I could really use some suggestions as to how to deal with idiopathic > colitis. I'm not asking for myself but for my little 9 lb. min pin. I > adopted this poor girl 2 years ago, at the age of 10. and she was such a > wreck at the time with 2 tumors, vaginal bleeding, gunky ears, cloudy eyes, > atrophied muscles, nervous air nipping, excessive leg licking, greasy coat, > damaged lungs, osteomalacia, and excessive fear of being approached too > quickly. she still flinches, squeezes her eyes tight, and cries out if > anyone accidentally swings a hand anywhere near her face. she was clearly > abused in one her former homes (she's had 4). anyway, when i adopted her, i > immediately put her on a raw home prepared diet and gave her various > supplements to address some of her issues. she's come a very long way since > then - has been active, bright eyed, muscular, playful, nice coat, less > fearful, less leg licking (the fur has grown back on the areas of her leg > that were bare from her licking), and seems to have a much increased sense > of well being. > > however, all is not perfect. this past winter she had an acute attack of > what the emergency vet *thought* was hemorrhagic gastroenteritis. she was > spurting blood from her mouth and anus. i was so scared and thought i was > going to lose her. she spent 3 days at the hospital, then continued her > recovery at home. the vets theorized that she had an allergic reaction to > venison, which i had just started feeding her the week she had the HGE > attack. but no one knows for certain what caused her attack. > > since then, her stools have been intermittenlty good and bad. in the past > few months they've become increasingly wet and mucousy. we couldn't find any > parasites or bacteria from stool samples, but doesn't necessarily mean she > doesn't have them. they just don't always show up when tested. last summer > she had whipworms so i'm now treating her for whipworms with flagyl and > treating her for possible bacterial infections with metranidazole > (antibiotic). i HATE using antibiotics, but i panicked and made a quick > decision to go ahead with it. > > so now, i'm trying to figure out how to treat her colitis. i've given her > mostly bone broth and mushed potato this week (as recommended by a canine > nutritionist friend who's got a lot of experience working with colitis). i > also gave her a little lamb, and culturelle - which is lactobacillus GG. but > her stool is still very mucousy. today, i decided to remove the potato, and > try just feeding two basic foods that *should* digest in the small > intestine - pastured egg yolk and summer squash. > > I'm really concerned about how to proceed as she's 12 years old now, and is > slim - not a lot of reserves. i'm hoping someone here has some knowledge of > treating colitis, in humans or animals, doesn't matter - i'm just looking > for avenues to investigate. i'm wondering if i should be giving her kefir > whey? or some other 'natural' probiotics, as opposed to just culturelle? i > also don't know if i should be giving her soluble fiber, or wait until the > mucous clears up a little first? i know this group has knowledge of an > approach to nutriton and health that i may not find in mainstream > literature, which is why i'm posting my questions here. > > can anyone help with suggestions? > > *any* help is GREATLY APPRECIATED. my mission is to provide mokie with as > many happy, *healthy* years as is humanly possible. she deserves it. > > > > > Suze Fisher > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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