Re: garlic dosage to purge infection, question

[Guest guest]

I know this is not your question but you might try some Echinacea

augustifolia root Tincture along with the garlic. I did raw garlic with the

Echinacea and found it to help rid my infections.

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Belinda

In a message dated 9/16/02 3:11:17 PM Central Daylight Time,

ChrisMasterjohn@... writes:

>

> Wanita or anyone else who can help,

>

> I'm concerned that my root canals didn't take care of the infections in my

> teeth, because some reading I've done indicates that that's usually the

> case,

> and since I got them done a month ago I've broken out with conjunctivitis

> three times, which seems to be a chronic infection that comes up or goes

> away

> with a direct correlation to my consumption of coconut fat.

>

> So if I can get some money I want to buy some garlic and try to purge the

> infection. I'll probably get Garlinase 4000 which is 4,000 mg of garlic

> containing a minimum of 5000 mcg of allicin and 11,000 mcg of alliin. I'm

> wondering what kind of dosage I should use. Wanita said she used five a

> day

> for a week and then tapered off, but I don't remember how quickly she said

> she tapered. Also, she used 5,000 mg pills, but the levels of allicin and

> alliin are probably the important factor here.

>

> Does anyone know if there are toxicity levels for garlic? Basically I'd

> want

> to take as high a dose as possible without approaching the toxicity level

> to

> close to make sure this does the best job it can as a one time thing.

>

> Coconut fat seems to be a great preventative, but I don't think it will

> purge

> the infection for me.

>

> Thanks a bunch,

> Peace,

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>Does anyone know if there are toxicity levels for garlic? Basically I'd

want

to take as high a dose as possible without approaching the toxicity level to

close to make sure this does the best job it can as a one time thing.

---->chris, there's a condition called " heinz body anemia " that can be

caused by excessive garlic intake. I read a research paper that tested

amounts that caused the formation of heinz bodies, but i don't recall what

the amounts were, nor what species it was tested on. i DO recall that the

amounts that caused hb anemia didn't seem all that high to me. in the

holistic pet health community, it's generally known to go easy on the garlic

with pets for this reason. maybe a web search will turn up the specifics?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze makes a good point.

My suggestion is this. While I don't utilize garlic often for the

reason I will mention in a minute, your best bet is to just use

garlic raw. this way you are far less likely to cause any toxicity

as the amount of raw garlic any one human can consume in a short

period is somewhat limited by garlic's nature which is one of the

reasons I prefer lower concentration supps that are made from food.

So if you choose to use real garlic you will eat it raw until someone

comes to your house and says " did you make pizza? " then you will

know that you have reached a therapeutic dosage. Be sure to eat the

garlic with food otherwise your stomach will feel like you swallowed

fire. While this is somewhat tongue and cheek (which will be burning

with all that raw garlic, by the way) I am also serious. While I'm

sure toxicity can be achieved with real raw garlic the likelyhood is

extremely small for obvious reasons as it would take a superhuman

effort to eat THAT much garlic.

Belinda's suggestion might be more appealing, at least to your

friends and neighbors.

DMM

> >>>>Does anyone know if there are toxicity levels for garlic?

Basically I'd

> want

> to take as high a dose as possible without approaching the toxicity

level to

> close to make sure this does the best job it can as a one time

thing.

>

> ---->chris, there's a condition called " heinz body anemia " that can

be

> caused by excessive garlic intake. I read a research paper that

tested

> amounts that caused the formation of heinz bodies, but i don't

recall what

> the amounts were, nor what species it was tested on. i DO recall

that the

> amounts that caused hb anemia didn't seem all that high to me. in

the

> holistic pet health community, it's generally known to go easy on

the garlic

> with pets for this reason. maybe a web search will turn up the

specifics?

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

[Guest guest]

>>>>So if you choose to use real garlic you will eat it raw until someone

comes to your house and says " did you make pizza? " then you will

know that you have reached a therapeutic dosage.

------->haha! dr. mike you are funny...but don't quit your day job i

neglected to mention that the garlic used in the study was*extract* IIRC -

not regular ol' raw garlic. i don't recall what kind chris said he's using,

but i'd second your suggestion just to use food, not a concentrate if he

wants to really eat enough to attract the fire brigade. aged garlic is

supposed to have more potent anti-bacterial properties, but i can't help

thinking raw garlic's more potent (i guess it just seems that way to me).

but, i believe the cardinal rule in herbalism is *moderation* as herbs have

effects just like drugs and should not be thought of as 'harmless

alternatives' to drugs, as seems to be a common misconception among the

public sometimes. more is not necessarily 'better' anyways. so maybe some

raw garlic in moderation along with some other foods/herbs that have

anti-bacterial properties would be a wise course of action? also some immune

support might be helpful as well.

other antibacterial things i can think of are oregan grape, colloidal

silver, olive leaf extract, goldenseal, CO and vitamin A (from CLO would

probably be best). maybe someone else has other suggestions?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Don't worry I'm not taking up comedy. And this is actually advice

from me personal file. When I was a freshman chiropractic student

all our classes were in the same room while professors rotated room

to room. I had a dental abscess and I decided to do the garlic thing

and being the gung ho fellow that I am I ate 5 cloves of raw garlic

on an empty stomach at 8pm, needless to say I slept little and I went

to class the next day and sometime during the first period you could

tell there was a stir in the class and the professor stopped class

and asked " did someone make a pizza? " at first all my classmates just

kind of acknowledged that the place stunk to high heaven and were

unsure what to make of it until my buddy next to me gave me up and

informed the class as to where the odor was emanating from. Needless

to say I still live with this burden from classmates to this day. I

was miserable at the time but now it is incredibly hilarious. So

while my advice is somewhat humorous its actually factually accurate

also.

Suze to take your herbal point a step further, we should realize that

every feeding has a pharmaceutical effect. Whether it be called

herbs, supplements or dinner. We are initiating a hormonal cascade

every time. This is one of the primary reasons that the NT based

diet is fundamental in creating health.

DMM

> >>>>So if you choose to use real garlic you will eat it raw until

someone

> comes to your house and says " did you make pizza? " then you will

> know that you have reached a therapeutic dosage.

>

> ------->haha! dr. mike you are funny...but don't quit your day

job i

> neglected to mention that the garlic used in the study was*extract*

IIRC -

> not regular ol' raw garlic. i don't recall what kind chris said

he's using,

> but i'd second your suggestion just to use food, not a concentrate

if he

> wants to really eat enough to attract the fire brigade. aged garlic

is

> supposed to have more potent anti-bacterial properties, but i can't

help

> thinking raw garlic's more potent (i guess it just seems that way

to me).

> but, i believe the cardinal rule in herbalism is *moderation* as

herbs have

> effects just like drugs and should not be thought of as 'harmless

> alternatives' to drugs, as seems to be a common misconception among

the

> public sometimes. more is not necessarily 'better' anyways. so

maybe some

> raw garlic in moderation along with some other foods/herbs that have

> anti-bacterial properties would be a wise course of action? also

some immune

> support might be helpful as well.

>

> other antibacterial things i can think of are oregan grape,

colloidal

> silver, olive leaf extract, goldenseal, CO and vitamin A (from CLO

would

> probably be best). maybe someone else has other suggestions?

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

[Guest guest]

>>>>gung ho fellow that I am I ate 5 cloves of raw garlic

on an empty stomach at 8pm, needless to say I slept little and I went

to class the next day and sometime during the first period you could

tell there was a stir in the class and the professor stopped class

and asked " did someone make a pizza? " at first all my classmates just

kind of acknowledged that the place stunk to high heaven and were

unsure what to make of it until my buddy next to me gave me up and

informed the class as to where the odor was emanating from. Needless

to say I still live with this burden from classmates to this day.

-------->hahahaha! now THAT was funny! maybe you *do* have a future in

comedy

>>>>Suze to take your herbal point a step further, we should realize that

every feeding has a pharmaceutical effect. Whether it be called

herbs, supplements or dinner. We are initiating a hormonal cascade

every time. This is one of the primary reasons that the NT based

diet is fundamental in creating health.

-------------->true. i think this may be especially the case with isolated,

concentrated compounds, as is the case with many synthetic as well as herbal

supplements? but then i guess it could be argued that some oils are potent

pharmaceuticals as well, such as CO and it's antibacterial properties, and

so on...

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I was planning on doing Garlinase 4000, but they didn't have the small packages,

so I got Natural Factors Garlic Factors which are cheaper anyway. I already

picked them up, so I guess I won't be doing raw garlic instead.

These contain 615 mg garlic with 6150 mcg allicin and 14,145 mcg alliin. It is

made so they don't combine until they're in your small intestine.

I don't understand how it is that concentrated, b/c the garlinase 4000 had 4000

mg garlic with less allicin and alliin!

I didn't know about the heinz anemia, but did just find out that garlic also has

anti-coagulant properties, so I wonder if it is safe to take very much of it. I

wonder if I take five pills a day if I get a cut if I'd have to get rushed to

the hospital for failure to clot!

I only wanted to do a mega-dose very short term. Moderation is always the best

rule, but an infection shoved into places medicine can't reach seems like a

unique situation that might call for breaking rules. In some of the stuff I

read on the root canal deal, mostly from Menieg (probably mispelled, the

dentist associated with PPNF), garlic was among the treatments being considered

in alternative to root canals.

But at this point I think I don't want to exceed the one per day unless directed

by a doctor.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Needless

to say I still live with this burden from classmates to this day.

-------->hahahaha! now THAT was funny! maybe you *do* have a future in

comedy

======>hmmmm...that sounds a little heartless. i didn't mean your *misery*

was funny, of course just the way you told the story. at least you didn't

suffer for naught - you may have saved chris from the same fate. (and his

classmates from the same fate of being stuck in a room that wreaks of

garlicy sweat(?) breath(?) or whatever exudes the odor...)

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

No harm done Suze, trust me its funny :-)

DMM

> Needless

> to say I still live with this burden from classmates to this day.

>

>

> -------->hahahaha! now THAT was funny! maybe you *do* have a future

in

> comedy

>

>

> ======>hmmmm...that sounds a little heartless. i didn't mean your

*misery*

> was funny, of course just the way you told the story. at least

you didn't

> suffer for naught - you may have saved chris from the same fate.

(and his

> classmates from the same fate of being stuck in a room that wreaks

of

> garlicy sweat(?) breath(?) or whatever exudes the odor...)

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

[Guest guest]

At 06:02 PM 9/16/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>other antibacterial things i can think of are oregan grape, colloidal

>silver, olive leaf extract, goldenseal, CO and vitamin A (from CLO would

>probably be best). maybe someone else has other suggestions?

>

>Suze Fisher

You've probably already thought of this, but there are other things

that can make you prone to infections: anything that dampens

your immune system. Food allergies are high up on the list

(with leaky gut the casien or gluten can dampen T cell

activity), as are stress, lack of sleep etc. Our family had chronic

sinusitis: we were on antibiotics all year: the ENT said it likely

hand to do with the shape of my sinuses. Guess what? They

are the same shape this year, no infections in anyone.

In that case, I think the antibiotics DID get rid of the

infection, but it got re-infected. That could happen with

a tooth too, I think, esp. if a root canal wasn't done

properly. I had a chronic problem in one tooth that

turned out to be a TINY crack down the side (I couldn't

see the crack: they capped it and it's been ok since).

Also: my sister had a tooth root that grew into her sinus cavity.

I don't remember exactly what the symptoms were, but she

kept getting sick from it.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

>

>Whether it be called

>herbs, supplements or dinner. We are initiating a hormonal cascade

>every time. This is one of the primary reasons that the NT based

>diet is fundamental in creating health.

>

>DMM

I have never gotten involved in any 'diet movement' until I discovered NT

because none of them ever intuitively felt right to me. Same goes for

supplements, over the counter medications and just about anything else. What you

put into words right there is how i have always felt, but didn't know how to put

into words.

I have always thought it amusing to hear of a medication or supplement with no

'side effects'. How could it possibly be of any use then if taking it did

nothing? And just randomly, so it seems, taking herbs, without being fully aware

of what full impact they have in concentration...

The recent topic of SP supplements was very informative and underscored my

feelings against readily available supplements. I was unaware of how corrupted

the health food and supplement business is. Pretty scary.

Thanks for your posts and participation on this list Doctor, you've helped me

understand a number of things

Mike E

[Guest guest]

Glad I could help Mike.

DMM

>

> >

> >Whether it be called

> >herbs, supplements or dinner. We are initiating a hormonal

cascade

> >every time. This is one of the primary reasons that the NT based

> >diet is fundamental in creating health.

> >

> >DMM

>

> I have never gotten involved in any 'diet movement' until I

discovered NT

> because none of them ever intuitively felt right to me. Same goes

for

> supplements, over the counter medications and just about anything

else. What you

> put into words right there is how i have always felt, but didn't

know how to put

> into words.

>

> I have always thought it amusing to hear of a medication or

supplement with no

> 'side effects'. How could it possibly be of any use then if taking

it did

> nothing? And just randomly, so it seems, taking herbs, without

being fully aware

> of what full impact they have in concentration...

>

> The recent topic of SP supplements was very informative and

underscored my

> feelings against readily available supplements. I was unaware of

how corrupted

> the health food and supplement business is. Pretty scary.

>

> Thanks for your posts and participation on this list Doctor, you've

helped me

> understand a number of things

>

> Mike E

[Guest guest]

At 04:09 PM 9/16/02 -0400, you wrote:

>Wanita or anyone else who can help,

>

>I'm concerned that my root canals didn't take care of the infections in my

>teeth, because some reading I've done indicates that that's usually the

case,

>and since I got them done a month ago I've broken out with conjunctivitis

>three times, which seems to be a chronic infection that comes up or goes

away

>with a direct correlation to my consumption of coconut fat.

>

>So if I can get some money I want to buy some garlic and try to purge the

>infection.  I'll probably get Garlinase 4000 which is 4,000 mg of garlic

>containing a minimum of 5000 mcg of allicin and 11,000 mcg of alliin.  I'm

>wondering what kind of dosage I should use.  Wanita said she used five a day

>for a week and then tapered off, but I don't remember how quickly she said

>she tapered.  Also, she used 5,000 mg pills, but the levels of allicin and

>alliin are probably the important factor here. 

>

>Does anyone know if there are toxicity levels for garlic?  Basically I'd

want

>to take as high a dose as possible without approaching the toxicity level to

>close to make sure this does the best job it can as a one time thing.

>

>Coconut fat seems to be a great preventative, but I don't think it will

purge

>the infection for me.

>

>Thanks a bunch,

>Peace,

>Chris

Hi

Didn't catch this earlier this week. I'm convinced that if I knew about

coconut

oil/milk and probiotics a few years back I would not have had to use garlic in

high doses to avoid antibiotics mainly and destroy the abcesses I got. Coconut

milk alone made the pockets remaining go away, did wonders for my digestion

and

sinuses. Some people are highly allergic to garlic but should know it seeing

its in somany foods. The coconut milk or coconut oil (now that its available

locally from Spectrum unrefined) should clear up any remaining root canal

infection. I'm also looking at L-glutamine. In Metabolic Man Wolcott cites Dr.

Sherry book No More Heartburn (2000) and her discussion of leaky gut

syndrome. Makes total sense with my health history that leaky gut deposited

its

infection in my sinuses and gums. Her do it yourself test for leaky gut is to

ingest L-glutamine, five grams twice a day one or two hours before or after

meals for a month. If your gut symptoms diminish you have had and successfully

treated leaky gut. More than likely the teeth is a result of the digestion

that

I know isn't totally cured yet.

Wanita