Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Hi Sheila, Our individuality certainly seems to be where nutrition is heading. Was reading excerpts yesterday at Amazon of Biochemical Individuality: The Basis for the Genetotrophic Concept and there was orthomolecular mentioned. Am reading Trace Your Genes to Health. It's author is an orthomolecular psychiatrist. One of metabolic typing's tests to define type is how well niacinamide is handled. On considering all of this its becoming quite clear that all supplements and nutrients are not needed in the same quantities by everyone. Individual needs determine the mix that creates health for you and anything not for you or in the wrong proportion will mess up the process. Wanita At 11:28 PM 10/4/02 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Everyone, >I have been reading an older book (1978, but there are more current >books) by Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D. Morton , D.P.M.. The book >is named " Putting It All Together: The New Orthomolecular Nutrition " . >Orthomolecular nutrition fits with much of what is believed here at > . They even mention Steffanson's diet with the >Eskimos. They agree ideally we should get all our nutrition from >whole foods and say we should strive to do so. Of course, we can't >easily do that as well as we would like, so we sometimes take >supplements to help fill our individual vitamin and mineral >deficiencies. Orthomolecular medicine works at getting our >nutritional needs met by adding the needed supplements after a >careful analysis of a persons health. They sometimes use megadoses of >vitamins. I'm sure you all know Linus ing did this with vitamin >C. For a good overview of this type of treatment go to ><http://www.orthomed.org/>www.orthomed.org. >I think you would find their appproach to healing very interesting. >Perhaps a more current book or more internet info. would be better >than this book I am presently reading. It is an easy read,. Hoffer >write with clarity. >I have had some experience with magadoses of niacinamide for my >arthritis. It has helped me a great deal. >I was wondering if any of you have had the experience of going to one >of the few orthomolecular physcians in the world, and if so, what was >your experience? >Thanks, >Sheila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 Hi Wanita, The book you are reading sounds interesting. I will get a copy from my library, if they can get it. I know two people who are seeing an orthomolecular physician. He used a machine of some kind to determine each person's sensitiviy to specific antigens. The patient holds a brass tube or rod in their hand, which is attached to the machine by a wire. As the antigens are put onto the machine, a gauge regesters the level of sensitivity the person has to that particular antigen. The doctor evaluates which treatment to use for a person, adding minerals, vitamins and diet based on extensive experience treating the imbalances and the patients reactions to various antigens. Fascinating! Do you know what machine does that sort of evaluation? I will let you know how of the patients progress, if you are be interested. One of them has diabetes Type 1. The doctor has had excellant results in curing this problem. As we already know from Steffanson's observations with the Eskimos, diabetes can be reversed if the ill persons native diet is held to for an extended period of time. It will be interesting to see how this same result is accomplished in a more modern setting through the use of diet, megavitamins and minerals. Thanks for your reply. Sheila > >Hi Everyone, > >I have been reading an older book (1978, but there are more current > >books) by Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D. Morton , D.P.M.. The book > >is named " Putting It All Together: The New Orthomolecular Nutrition " . > >Orthomolecular nutrition fits with much of what is believed here at > > . They even mention Steffanson's diet with the > >Eskimos. They agree ideally we should get all our nutrition from > >whole foods and say we should strive to do so. Of course, we can't > >easily do that as well as we would like, so we sometimes take > >supplements to help fill our individual vitamin and mineral > >deficiencies. Orthomolecular medicine works at getting our > >nutritional needs met by adding the needed supplements after a > >careful analysis of a persons health. They sometimes use megadoses of > >vitamins. I'm sure you all know Linus ing did this with vitamin > >C. For a good overview of this type of treatment go to > ><http://www.orthomed.org/>www.orthomed.org. > >I think you would find their appproach to healing very interesting. > >Perhaps a more current book or more internet info. would be better > >than this book I am presently reading. It is an easy read,. Hoffer > >write with clarity. > >I have had some experience with magadoses of niacinamide for my > >arthritis. It has helped me a great deal. > >I was wondering if any of you have had the experience of going to one > >of the few orthomolecular physcians in the world, and if so, what was > >your experience? > >Thanks, > >Sheila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 >>>>>One of them has diabetes Type 1. The doctor has had excellant results in curing this problem. As we already know from Steffanson's observations with the Eskimos, diabetes can be reversed if the ill persons native diet is held to for an extended period of time. It will be interesting to see how this same result is accomplished in a more modern setting through the use of diet, megavitamins and minerals. ---->sheila, do you know *how* this doc is treating diabetes successfully? Is he treating patients individually, or with low-carb or moderate-carb, mega vits, or what? Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 Hi Suze, It is my understanding he is using zinc and a carefully planned diet avoiding all allergic foods. The treatment is very individualized. Some of the foods he is currently sensitive to will be added back in to his diet as he improves. I suppose there may be other vitamins, but I don't know yet which ones he is using. He has also added essential fatty acids, like evening primrose and maybe flaxseed oil. I will get more details soon and send them along. I will also get his name and location too. I know he is in the northeast, about an hour or so from Boston. Your general neck of the woods. Sheila The diet has > >>>>>One of them has diabetes Type 1. The doctor has had > excellant results in curing this problem. As we already know from > Steffanson's observations with the Eskimos, diabetes can be reversed > if the ill persons native diet is held to for an extended period of > time. It will be interesting to see how this same result is > accomplished in a more modern setting through the use of diet, > megavitamins and minerals. > > ---->sheila, do you know *how* this doc is treating diabetes successfully? > Is he treating patients individually, or with low-carb or moderate- carb, > mega vits, or what? > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 At 12:53 AM 10/6/02 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Suze, >It is my understanding he is using zinc and a carefully planned diet >avoiding all allergic foods. The treatment is very individualized. >Some of the foods he is currently sensitive to will be added back in >to his diet as he improves. I suppose there may be other vitamins, >but I don't know yet which ones he is using. He has also added >essential fatty acids, like evening primrose and maybe flaxseed oil. >I will get more details soon and send them along. I will also get his >name and location too. I know he is in the northeast, about an hour >or so from Boston. Your general neck of the woods. >Sheila I'm an hour and a half west of Boston. Sounds similar to what my hypoglycemic neighbor's allergist is doing. She has 3 medicine cabinet shelves of supplements, is allergic to most everything and is on a high protein/fat diet. Wanita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 an orthomolecular physician. He used > a machine of some kind to determine each person's sensitiviy to > specific antigens. The patient holds a brass tube or rod in their > hand, which is attached to the machine by a wire. As the antigens are > put onto the machine, a gauge regesters the level of sensitivity the > person has to that particular antigen. The doctor evaluates which > treatment to use for a person, adding minerals, vitamins and diet > based on extensive experience treating the > imbalances and the > patients reactions to various antigens. > > Fascinating! Do you know what > machine does that sort of > > evaluation? It sounds like he might be measuring Galvanic Skin Response - kind of like a lie detector test. If the antigens are in vials, this might be a variation on Applied Kinesiology. As a skeptic about 'energy medicine' and psychic phenomena, I find Applied Kinesiology to be totally unbelievable and without basis. For other people who have some similar skepticism about these things, they might want to look closely at this type of measurement before using it, to see what kind of measurement is being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2002 Report Share Posted October 6, 2002 >>>It is my understanding he is using zinc and a carefully planned diet avoiding all allergic foods. The treatment is very individualized. Some of the foods he is currently sensitive to will be added back in to his diet as he improves. I suppose there may be other vitamins, but I don't know yet which ones he is using. He has also added essential fatty acids, like evening primrose and maybe flaxseed oil. I will get more details soon and send them along. I will also get his name and location too. I know he is in the northeast, about an hour or so from Boston. Your general neck of the woods. ------->Sheila, thanks, i'm really interested in learning more about this. none of this sounds like any approach to diabetes treatment that i've yet run across, and i'd like to understand it better and what makes it work Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Hi, The strain measurements (whatever they are?) are done on a Wheatstone Bridge machine. I am still checking this out. I don't know how close it is to applied kineseology. I do know this doctor has had terrific success treating diabetics by eliminating their allergic foods using the Wheatstone Bridge. It is a machine used in physicts for scientific experiments. Check in out at and goggle. You might be quicker than I am at understanding the science of it. Sheila > an orthomolecular physician. He used > a machine of some kind to > determine each person's sensitiviy to > > specific antigens. The patient holds a brass tube or rod in their > > hand, which is attached to the machine by a wire. As the antigens > are > put onto the machine, a gauge regesters the level of > sensitivity the > person has to that particular antigen. The doctor > evaluates which > treatment to use for a person, adding minerals, > vitamins and diet > based on extensive experience treating the > > imbalances and the > patients reactions to various antigens. > > > Fascinating! Do you know what > machine does that sort of > > > evaluation? > > > It sounds like he might be measuring Galvanic Skin Response - kind of > like a lie detector test. If the antigens are in vials, this might be > a variation on Applied Kinesiology. > As a skeptic about 'energy medicine' and psychic phenomena, I find > Applied Kinesiology to be totally unbelievable and without basis. For > other people who have some similar skepticism about these things, > they might want to look closely at this type of measurement before > using it, to see what kind of measurement is being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Hi Suze, The orthomolecular doctors name is Ken Emonds, Ph.D.. His office is in North Hampton, New Hampshire. I should think he would be glad to speak to you. I read a very intereting and informative book about diabetes. It is called " Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution " . Have you read it? His diet is very low carb. Dr Bernstein, M.D. has Type 1 diabetes. He has had excellent health for many years by following his diet. It is not one of those books geared to millons of people for weight loss. I will send you more information about the orthomolecular treatment as I receive it. I do know the zinc supplements he recommends contains no copper. It is hard to get zinc in our diets, but easy to get copper. Sheila > >>>It is my understanding he is using zinc and a carefully planned diet > avoiding all allergic foods. The treatment is very individualized. > Some of the foods he is currently sensitive to will be added back in > to his diet as he improves. I suppose there may be other vitamins, > but I don't know yet which ones he is using. He has also added > essential fatty acids, like evening primrose and maybe flaxseed oil. > I will get more details soon and send them along. I will also get his > name and location too. I know he is in the northeast, about an hour > or so from Boston. Your general neck of the woods. > > > ------->Sheila, thanks, i'm really interested in learning more about this. > none of this sounds like any approach to diabetes treatment that i've yet > run across, and i'd like to understand it better and what makes it work > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 > Hi, > The strain measurements (whatever they are?) are done on a Wheatstone > Bridge machine. I am still checking this out. I don't know how close > it is to applied kineseology. I do know this doctor has had terrific > success treating diabetics by eliminating their allergic foods using > the Wheatstone Bridge. It is a machine used in physicts for > scientific experiments. Check in out at and goggle. I vaguely remember the Wheatstone bridge from college. I googled (wheatstone bridge allergen). The testing methods that came up in my search (VEGA was one name) sounded bogus to me. Here's one of the first urls that came up in my google search: http://www.appleonline.net/jockm/vegajock.html It's interesting that this author at least seems to use the machine more to impress patients, while the real diagnostic info comes from his quetsions about their diets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Very interesting indeed! I don't know if the doctor asked a lot of questions about diet before the testing. I will find out. I also do not know if the VEGA machine and the Wheatstone Bridge are one in the same thing. Do you know for sure? I found this last paragraph of the article you sent of particular importance. " As a rough and ready, cheap and non-invasive food allergy/intolerance test, the VEGA machine remains of immense practical value at this time. Whether its results are basically placebo, practitioner derived, a dousing device or an electro acupuncture bioresonance instrument that presages a new science of vibrational medicine does not seem to me to be as important as the fact that it remains a clinically useful way to demonstrate to patients their food sensitivities and thereby motivate them to find ways to reform their diets in accord with well-established principles of healthy eating. " I say: Whatever works to heal the patient of diabetes, as long as it does not harm the patient, seems okay to me. Sheila > > Hi, > > The strain measurements (whatever they are?) are done on a > Wheatstone > Bridge machine. I am still checking this out. I don't > know how close > it is to applied kineseology. I do know this doctor > has had terrific > success treating diabetics by eliminating their > allergic foods using > the Wheatstone Bridge. It is a machine used in > physicts for > scientific experiments. Check in out at and > goggle. > > I vaguely remember the Wheatstone bridge from college. > > I googled (wheatstone bridge allergen). The testing methods that came > up in my search (VEGA was one name) sounded bogus to me. Here's one > of the first urls that came up in my google search: > http://www.appleonline.net/jockm/vegajock.html > It's interesting that this author at least seems to use the machine > more to impress patients, while the real diagnostic info comes from > his quetsions about their diets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 03:45:19 -0000, you wrote: >Hi, >The strain measurements (whatever they are?) are done on a Wheatstone >Bridge machine. Just a point of idle curiosity. Wheatstone had another invention that still bear his name, almost 200 years later. he was among the first, if not the first to apply bellows to metal reeds in a hand held affair. His invention was called the concertina, later the English Concertina to distinguish it from the German/Anglo. The main difference between the two was his plays the same note whether the bellows are pulled or pressed, where the anglo is like a harmonica, different direction. His intention for this instrument was to replace the fiddle in the parlors of homes across Britain and beyond. he made his concertina in small, medium, large and extra large to correspond to the way fiddles are built. His invention never replaced the fiddle, though his instruments were very popular. Like a lot of home made music, the advent of Edison's recording cylinders and later disks stopped a lot of people from making their own music. Concertina of all sorts lost popularity, nearly becoming extinct until they reemerged from the folks revival of the 60/70's. Nowadays there are at least two builders making concertinas in his style and I think genuine Wheatsones from the company that still bear his name are still being made in limited quantity, not to mention how sought after many models of original Wheatsonte still are. Ultimately, through incremental improvements, at least to the individual with the idea, the instrument grew up to become the piano accrdion...think Lawrence Welk... End of today's trivia lesson :-) Mike E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Hi Suze and other interested er's, Ken usually sends people a questionnaire before hand, but didn't this time. No, he didn't discuss diet or supplememts before testing with the Wheatstone Bridge. He did know the patient's insulin doseage, but that was all. I will send more on the diet tomorrow. So far I have been told it is well rounded and easy to follow, with some beans, rice, meat, etc. More later. Ken Emonds has a secrtary on Tues and Weds. This is the time to call to make an appointment or ask questions. He is booking for January/Feb. now. 603-964-2007. Sheila > >>>It is my understanding he is using zinc and a carefully planned diet > avoiding all allergic foods. The treatment is very individualized. > Some of the foods he is currently sensitive to will be added back in > to his diet as he improves. I suppose there may be other vitamins, > but I don't know yet which ones he is using. He has also added > essential fatty acids, like evening primrose and maybe flaxseed oil. > I will get more details soon and send them along. I will also get his > name and location too. I know he is in the northeast, about an hour > or so from Boston. Your general neck of the woods. > > > ------->Sheila, thanks, i'm really interested in learning more about this. > none of this sounds like any approach to diabetes treatment that i've yet > run across, and i'd like to understand it better and what makes it work > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 > I also do not know if the VEGA machine > and the Wheatstone Bridge > are one in the same thing. Do you know for > sure? > I don't even know if the VEGA machine is the same device used by your friend's doctor. It sounded similar, but I don't think they mentioned a strain gauge. A Wheatstone bridge is not the same thing as the VEGA device. It could be used in the VEGA device as part of its design. A Wheatstone bridge is a kind of electrical circuit that can be used (if I remember correctly) for measuring resistance or changes in resistance etc. It could be used a lot of different ways, like in a simple volt-ohmeter. I think it could be used for force measurements too depending on the circuit and components. So it has nothing specific to do with diabetes or allergen or galvanic skin response testing - it's just a general type of measuring circuit. The question I'd ask would be whether the change in resistance measured has anything to do with any real information about the patient's condition. Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Hi Suze, I have a list of the supplements Ken Emonds recommended for the diabetic patient. If you would like a copy write to me off line and I will fax or mail you a copy. Sheila > >>>It is my understanding he is using zinc and a carefully planned diet > avoiding all allergic foods. The treatment is very individualized. > Some of the foods he is currently sensitive to will be added back in > to his diet as he improves. I suppose there may be other vitamins, > but I don't know yet which ones he is using. He has also added > essential fatty acids, like evening primrose and maybe flaxseed oil. > I will get more details soon and send them along. I will also get his > name and location too. I know he is in the northeast, about an hour > or so from Boston. Your general neck of the woods. > > > ------->Sheila, thanks, i'm really interested in learning more about this. > none of this sounds like any approach to diabetes treatment that i've yet > run across, and i'd like to understand it better and what makes it work > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Hi everyone, Here is a little more information about the Wheatstone Bridge machine used by Dr. Ken Emonds. The person being tested holds a rather heavy brass rod in one hand, which has a wire connected to the machine. In the other hand the doctor uses a wand, which is also connected to the machine, to touch different parts of the patient's hand, These parts of the hand correlate to acupuncture points. There is a complete curcuit between the patient, the wand and the antigen, which is on a scale, through the machine. The patient's reaction to each antigen regesters on a gauge. There is a great difference in these reactions from antigen to antigen and from person to person. It is completely painless. When at home the patient is exercising, which of course helps bring down his blood glucose levels. It will be interesting to watch his progress while on the supplements and the diet over the next few months. Be well NTer's, Sheila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 I'm going to chime in here with my own two cents, I've been pretty much lurking on this topic so as not to insult the professionals who use these technologies generally speaking because the docs are usually good. But unfortunately I find that the docs are usually good in spite of these machines as opposed to because of them. These are generally expensive high tech machines that are designed to bedazzle the client with its impressive high tech intuitiveness. I'd take a good doc's low tech intuitiveness any day. I certainly am not saying that they don't have any merit or time of appropriate usage. What I can tell you is that the colleagues and friends I have known over the years who have used varying types of this technology have all been better caregivers without the machines than with in my own opinion. I have questioned them as to the necessity of these machines and why they use them and I have never been impressed by their answers. Its simply a high tech gadget/gizmo that can at times provide some interesting information however I prefer for my own health care and that of my family and clients a somewhat old fashioned utilization of a doc who knows his/her stuff and generally does not need to rely on bedazzling a client in order to " demonstrate " their skill. I find it more impressive when the doc takes the time to just sit down with the client and figure out what they need to do as opposed to such a " technological distraction " . Again let me reiterate I do feel that there is some merit to the use of this technology but nearly all of the docs I know who use them rely on them far too much and overstate the helpfulness of the technology. Generally speaking many more times than not I find it to provide information that is at most misleading and at the least complicates the issue with minutiae that is either irrelevant and or unimportant. Sincerely, DMM > > Hi everyone, > > Here is a little more information about the Wheatstone Bridge > machine > > used by Dr. Ken Emonds. > > The person being tested holds a rather heavy brass rod in one hand, > > which has a wire connected to the machine. In the other hand the > > doctor uses a wand, which is also connected to the machine, to > touch > > different parts of the patient's hand, These parts of the hand > > correlate to acupuncture points. There is a complete curcuit > between the patient, the wand and the antigen, which is on a scale, > > through the machine. The patient's reaction to each antigen > > > regesters on a gauge. > > > That sounds exactly like the Vega machine on the webpages I read. > In that case, there is no scientific basis for the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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