Re: Common Ground

[Guest guest]

That sounds great, thanks for sharing. It's interesting to hear tge various

reactions.

I'll be honest, i'm a little concerned about vitamin A toxicity as i keep

hearing two sides, and because i'm pregnant. I take 4000-6000 IUs daily

through cod liver oil and eat lots of raw butter and cream, soft-boiled

eggs, pasture fed beef. I also take a daily supplement that has 15000 IU of

A, although it's plant-based (says 67% beta carotene). Actually i just

looked at the jar and am a little shocked. I think i will stop taking these.

If anyone has taken the cod liver 3X daily while pregnant and other high

vitamin A, i would love to hear from you. Am i taking too much? Are there

symptoms of toxicity?

Elaine

[Guest guest]

Suze,

Thanks for sharing about the fair - interesting. And, thanks for

setting up that booth!

[Guest guest]

Good for you, Suze!

-

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the description of your day! I have seriously thought about

starting a WAPF group here where I live but I dont know if I have the

energy to take on the wrath of " meat hostile " people.

Irene

At 05:04 AM 9/24/02, you wrote:

>Hi all,

>

>I thought i'd report on my local chapters' WAPF booth this weekend at the

> " Common Ground Fair " in Unity Maine. This is a large agricultural fair put

>on by MOFGA - the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association, and is a

>really wonderful event. our original chapter leader signed up to have a WAPF

>booth in the social/political action tent, and my friend and I manned the

>booth on Sunday (we recently became chapter co-leaders). Well, it was a very

>interesting experience. so many different types of people stopped at our

>booth and they had varying levels of knowledge about nutrition. i learned

>that i needed to cater the information to the person. one guy said, " oh my

>friend said flaxseed oil is good " should i take it? he also saw a poster we

>had describing the fats eaten by various traditional/primitive cultures and

>asked if 'fat' was good. he didn't understand that all fats are not the

>same. other people had heard of omega 3s and 6s, but didn't realize that

>feedlot cattle had a different fat profile than pastured cattle. we

>discussed why it would be beneficial for people to buy local pasture-raised

>beef to most of the folks who came to our table. the whole fair was about

>local farming and agriculture (mostly organic), so it tied right in with our

>theme, and people could really understand how the WAPF message fit with the

>whole theme of the fair and this made a good impression on fair goers as

>many probably already had a predisposition to support local, sustainable

>farming and agriculture.

>

>

>at the fair, btw, were many local farms selling produce, and RAW milk! In

>fact, we came upon two farms that we weren't previously aware of selling raw

>milk. one had jerseys, pastured in season, supplemented with hay, and in

>winter supplemented with 5 lbs. of grain. the other farm had mixed jerseys

>and holsteins. the food booths had locally-raised meats and local veggies.

>we chowed down

>

>

>back to our booth: we were selling 'NT' and 'the cholesterol myths.'

>although we had one copy of NAPD, but it wasn't for sale. a few people

>wanted to buy it, so we thought we'd better bring some copies for sale next

>year. one woman was an ethnographer and was so excited about both WAP's and

>Sally's books. after we spoke for a little bit she asked if i would come and

>give a brief speech at a health seminar she's giving for health care

>professionals. that was one end of the spectrum, at the other was the

>nutritionist who came to the booth early in the day. she had been there the

>previous day and apparently was quite upset with the foundations

>recommendation to eat saturated fat. she came to me in a somewhat

>confrontational manner and began writing down the names of all the books we

>had on display, as i think she was interested in refuting the information in

>a paper she was writing on vit. A toxicity. Her issue was that the amount of

>saturated fat recommended by the WAPF and sally could cause vit. A toxicity.

>she talked about research that found that vit. A toxicity can cause liver

>cancer and cirrhosis of the liver. we got into a lively debate. my main

>point was that the foundation doesn't recommend any specific *amount* of

>sat. fat, and as such it's impossible to say their 'recommendations' would

>cause vit. A toxicity. i explained that it's not a 'diet' but rather a

>nutritional 'approach' based on healthy traditional/primitive nutrition.

>

>it occurred to me only after she left that the research on vit. A toxicity

>may have been done with *synthetic* vit. A. clearly, WAP's groups were not

>dropping from vit. A toxicity, so there was something about their

>nutrition/lifestyles that prevented any problems with vit. A toxicity. also,

>i mentioned to her that current research on vit. A toxicity is conflicting.

>one large-scale study gave 300,000 IU daily to a large group of people for 2

>years and no toxicity symptoms were noted! i do think it's an interesting

>question that she raised though - is it possible to get vit. A toxicity from

>eating large amounts of saturated fat? in the context of a nutrient-dense

>more traditional diet? or is it mainly seen in those eating a SAD?

>

>she also supported RDAs, but we did find common ground before she left.

>through our conversation we found that we both believed in questioning

>nutrition research in general, and we both were wary of research sponsored

>by corporations that benefit from the research they sponsor. i explained to

>her that i question some of the information in NT, yet i DO support the

>general premise of the WAPF in returning to traditional nutrient-dense foods

>grown locally.

>

>by the end of the day, we had given out a LOT of brochures, and had 3 people

>interested in joining our local chapter. the most popular brochure was the

> " soy alert " which we ran out of before the end of the day. there was one

>funny incident - one man was perusing the brochures and saw the soy alert

>one. i told him to help himself - they were free. he joked, " oh yeh, i'll

>read it while i eat my stir fry this afternoon. " and he didn't take it.

>later in the day, as we were having a discussion with some other folks who

>came to our table, he came back, and without saying a word, sideled up and

>snatched a soy alert brochure and took off. LOL

>

>All in all it was a very interesting day

>

>

>Suze Fisher

>Web Design & Development

><http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/>http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vz\

e3shjg/

>mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Elaine,

In the charts in the back of Metabolic Man it said protein types should take

the palmitate form of A instead of cod liver oil. Likely because of the high A

in the whole fat dairy and meats of the protein type choices. Just a heads up

as it sounds like you're eating that way with the yummy Swiss butter etc.

Wanita

At 03:40 PM 9/24/02 +0800, you wrote:

>That sounds great, thanks for sharing. It's interesting to hear tge various

>reactions.

>

>I'll be honest, i'm a little concerned about vitamin A toxicity as i keep

>hearing two sides, and because i'm pregnant. I take 4000-6000 IUs daily

>through cod liver oil and eat lots of raw butter and cream, soft-boiled

>eggs, pasture fed beef. I also take a daily supplement that has 15000 IU of

>A, although it's plant-based (says 67% beta carotene). Actually i just

>looked at the jar and am a little shocked. I think i will stop taking these.

>

>If anyone has taken the cod liver 3X daily while pregnant and other high

>vitamin A, i would love to hear from you. Am i taking too much? Are there

>symptoms of toxicity?

>

>Elaine

[Guest guest]

Wanita, what is the palmitate form of A? Is that the vegetable form? Luckily

i've only been taking all this a couple of weeks. Maybe i should keep on

with my supplements and only take 2000 IU of cod liver oil.

Elaine

In the charts in the back of Metabolic Man it said protein types should take

the palmitate form of A instead of cod liver oil.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, wow that rocks Suze

re the Vit A discussion, I have reserves about cod liver oil. I'm sure it's

vastly superior to synthetic Vitamin A, and that there are important

bioavailability factors in it missing from supplements, etc, but when it comes

down to it, it is an extract and not a whole food. Weston Price noted the

importance of maintaining low levels of cod liver oil to avoid toxicity, but the

groups he studied and huge amounts of vitamin A. It seems it would be

preferable to get the A from eating liver rather than doing cod liver oil.

Don't get me wrong, I take cod liver oil, a tsp a day. I'm just not so sure it

is as beneficial as a true whole food.I think maybe we should be eating organ

meats as much as we eat muscle meats. I've been having some buffalo liver every

day this week so far, and I definitely feel better when I have it.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hey

I'm just getting some liver so interested in how your prepping it? You

doing raw or cooked and how much? Is getting too much a concern? I like

liver although haven't tried it raw yet.

--

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:10 PM

Subject: Re: Common Ground

Yeah, wow that rocks Suze

re the Vit A discussion, I have reserves about cod liver oil. I'm sure it's

vastly superior to synthetic Vitamin A, and that there are important

bioavailability factors in it missing from supplements, etc, but when it

comes down to it, it is an extract and not a whole food. Weston Price noted

the importance of maintaining low levels of cod liver oil to avoid toxicity,

but the groups he studied and huge amounts of vitamin A. It seems it would

be preferable to get the A from eating liver rather than doing cod liver

oil.

Don't get me wrong, I take cod liver oil, a tsp a day. I'm just not so sure

it is as beneficial as a true whole food.I think maybe we should be eating

organ meats as much as we eat muscle meats. I've been having some buffalo

liver every day this week so far, and I definitely feel better when I have

it.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply about vitamin A Chris! Can someone tell me how many

IUs of vit. A are in a tsp. I have capsules.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/25/02 3:40:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

@... writes:

> I'm just getting some liver so interested in how your prepping it? You

> doing raw or cooked and how much? Is getting too much a concern? I like

> liver although haven't tried it raw yet.

I haven't tried raw liver either. I find that buffalo liver is superior in

taste to beef liver, and I prepare it by soaking it in lemon juice after

cutting into thin strips for 2-3 hours, then using a mixture of white flour,

sea salt, freshly cracked black pepper, and a salt-free " Garlic and Herb "

seasoning mixture I have. This is a slight variation of the NT recipe,

which also calls for unbleached white flour. I think the liver is so

nutrient-dense it compensates for the white flour, but I think I will also

try to work down the amount I use over time any way as I get acclimated to

the taste of liver and will experiement with arrowroot or egg yolk or some

other " breading " mixtures to try to elminate refined carbs from the recipe

eventually. You need more flour the thinner you make the strips, anywhere

from a quarter to a half cup per pound, I find, which is a little less than

the NT recipe. Then I fry them in a mixture of coconut oil, sesame oil (for

heat resistance) olive oil, and butter, a little higher than medium (setting

four out of seven on my stove). I fry it on a couple minutes each side. NT

calls for clarified butter, but I don't have any, and can't afford to buy

oils not present already in my kitchen at the moment. NT says to cook a

bunch of onions on low heat in butter for a half hour, but I find that

especially with buffalo liver, the taste is fine with anything else, and I'm

not so fond of the onions, and doubt that they're very good for you after so

much cooking and carmelization.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian