Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 When i used to be a horse person, keeping hay like that was considered dangerous because it is highly combustible. Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 At 01:39 AM 10/5/02 -0400, you wrote: >Is it possible to efficiently and effectively lacto-ferment large amounts of >freshly cut hay like in a big outdoor pit or something? Would this preserve >the vitamins, caretenoids, and chloryphyll through the winter months to feed >to animals? Would cows eat it, or would the soured taste offend them? > >I can't tell whether this is a good idea or a stupid idea. (I'm leaning >towards the latter since I seem to be the only one to think of it) > >Chris > The farm my BIL works at feeds some haylage. Pretty sure its made the same way as corn silage only with fresh mown hay. Some of the dairy farms around you'll see trenches with one end boarded up and black plastic over the pile in it. Some have just sawdust there for the barn, others are fermenting silage with the heat of the plastic, moisture and sugar release. Haylage takes less time and I'm not sure if it is the same exact process but it would create a natural fermentation similar to a compost pile. Heat would be a problem with grass but with the right conditions the ferment I'd think could be about a week with turning the pile. Lacto fermenting would take a tremendous amount of whey separating. Unsure what natural fermentation does to protein content. I'd think carbs (sugar) would be greatly increased. Wanita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 I just got involved with Effective Microorganisms. They have been used for everything from agriculture, to boosting the health of animals, added to ferment foods, and now are being researched for medical purposes. They are very inexpensive and would easily do the job of fermenting your hay. You can read more about it by looking up " Effective Microorganisms " or by looking up the inventor Dr. Higa in Japan. There is a lot of information on agriculture, a little on working with animals, and very, very little on human consumption. I have begun experimenting with human uses including ingestion. These EMs are very exciting to me. When I began fermenting my foods, my thought was that bacteria accounts for the beginning of a large percent of illness. Instead of fighting the bacteria with poison, why not do what nature does, balance things out??? The fermented foods and EMs (which are a concentrated for of 80 strains of friendly bacteria) deliver these friendly bacteria which make the living environment hostile to the " unfriendly " bacteria. The by products of the unfriendly bacteria are toxic. The by products of the friendly bacteria are antioxidant! When I have more results to report I will be posting the information with food and internal use on my web and as well as in my free newsletter. Kat http://www.katking.com ----- Original Message ----- From: " Wanita Sears " <wanitawa@...> < > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 5:22 AM Subject: Re: lacto-fermented hay? At 01:39 AM 10/5/02 -0400, you wrote: >Is it possible to efficiently and effectively lacto-ferment large amounts of >freshly cut hay like in a big outdoor pit or something? Would this preserve >the vitamins, caretenoids, and chloryphyll through the winter months to feed >to animals? Would cows eat it, or would the soured taste offend them? > >I can't tell whether this is a good idea or a stupid idea. (I'm leaning >towards the latter since I seem to be the only one to think of it) > >Chris > The farm my BIL works at feeds some haylage. Pretty sure its made the same way as corn silage only with fresh mown hay. Some of the dairy farms around you'll see trenches with one end boarded up and black plastic over the pile in it. Some have just sawdust there for the barn, others are fermenting silage with the heat of the plastic, moisture and sugar release. Haylage takes less time and I'm not sure if it is the same exact process but it would create a natural fermentation similar to a compost pile. Heat would be a problem with grass but with the right conditions the ferment I'd think could be about a week with turning the pile. Lacto fermenting would take a tremendous amount of whey separating. Unsure what natural fermentation does to protein content. I'd think carbs (sugar) would be greatly increased. Wanita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 We farm and actually my dh could answer this question better than I can, but anyway I'll give it a shot. You know those tall blue silos that you see on dairy farms? And sometimes beef feeding farms. They are typically filled with silage. That is chopped corn, hay, alfalfa, etc when it is still moist, it is lacto-fermenting. There are also other ways to make silage, big cement pits covered with plastic, plastic covered bales-sealed tight, and long plastic bags that are filled with silage and sealed tight. There is haylage which is kind of a catch-all for different grass with alfalfa typically. Last year my dh made haylage which had several grasses and alfalfa. This year he made long bags of oatlage, oats and peas. This makes a high nutrient feed for cattle but they still need dry matter to keep their rumen (sp?) working. Their bodies need dry matter in their rumin (sp?) that is how their body makes heat. I believe the rumen makes lactic acid which their body then uses for other processes. A cow with no access to dry feed, such as dry hay will soon be ill, even if they have access to high quality feed. In the winter they definitely need it when it is cold. Their other feed passes directly to their stomach system. Dairy cows also need dry matter for quality milk. Here is a link to haylage for more technical info that may be more accurate than what I just wrote. http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/onslow/AG/hay/haylage.html We raise beef cattle, corn, and beans conventionally. We do not finish though except for ourselves so don't ask me for grass fed beef, yet. An interesting side note is that my dh keeps finding articles in the status quo farm publications about how the end product is better nutritionally if it is grass fed. It looks as though the word is getting out and some farmers/ranchers are making changes in the way they are doing things. Of course the bottom line is always the $$, and the packers are in control, and the gov't. Really, folks, farmers aren't the bad guy, they are just trying to make a living like the rest of the world. The answer is not more gov't controls but better educated consumers and the gov't and media and big business does a lousy job of that I'm sure you're already aware. Off my soap box now, Kim Brenneman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 I'm on your side Kim, There has not been much choice in how things are grown or how animals are raised. If farmers want to make a living, there are certain things they have to do, and they are not always healthy for all involved. My dad was raised on a farm, and when I go grocery shopping with him, we are amazed at how little things sell for. These fruits and veggies need to be planted, watered, cared for, harvested, shipped, sent to wholesalers then into the store. All the expense is on the farmer, but there are also a lot of people who take their cut on the way to the market. If I am getting honeydew at 5 pounds for a dollar, it seems to me someone is working for free! I hate to sound like I am on a soapbox, but EMs (effective microorganisms) are the most exciting thing I have heard of in a long time. They make pesticides a thing of the past (by making the plants inhospitable to pests, and not hurting the friendly bugs), they nourish the soil, in animals they seem to keep well animals healthy and help the immune system of those not. Very exciting stuff. At this point I have just begun to study and work with EMs. Other than my enthusiasm for the research I am reading, I have nothing to do with any company that makes EMs. I just feel I am reading about a key technology that might just make this planet a much safer place to live. Kat http://www.katking.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <mkbrenne@...> < > Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:03 AM Subject: re: lacto-fermented hay? > We farm and actually my dh could answer this question better than I can, but anyway I'll give it a shot. > You know those tall blue silos that you see on dairy farms? And sometimes beef feeding farms. They are typically filled with silage. That is chopped corn, hay, alfalfa, etc when it is still moist, it is lacto-fermenting. There are also other ways to make silage, big cement pits covered with plastic, plastic covered bales-sealed tight, and long plastic bags that are filled with silage and sealed tight. There is haylage which is kind of a catch-all for different grass with alfalfa typically. Last year my dh made haylage which had several grasses and alfalfa. This year he made long bags of oatlage, oats and peas. This makes a high nutrient feed for cattle but they still need dry matter to keep their rumen (sp?) working. Their bodies need dry matter in their rumin (sp?) that is how their body makes heat. I believe the rumen makes lactic acid which their body then uses for other processes. A cow with no access to dry feed, such as dry hay will soon be ill, even if they have access to high quality feed. http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/onslow/AG/hay/haylage.html > We raise beef cattle, corn, and beans conventionally. We do not finish though except for ourselves so don't ask me for grass fed beef, yet. An interesting side note is that my dh keeps finding articles in the status quo farm publications about how the end product is better nutritionally if it is grass fed. It looks as though the word is getting out and some farmers/ranchers are making changes in the way they are doing things. Of course the bottom line is always the $$, and the packers are in control, and the gov't. Really, folks, farmers aren't the bad guy, they are just trying to make a living like the rest of the world. The answer is not more gov't controls but better educated consumers and the gov't and media and big business does a lousy job of that I'm sure you're already aware. > Off my soap box now, > Kim Brenneman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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