Re: vitamin A toxicity

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Liz for the vit. A info!!!! I am going to save it and

reread it a few times.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

So, am i safe consuming about 6000 IU of A through (mercury free) cod liver

oil, as NT recommends, in addition to the 15000 IU of A daily in supplement

-- which is primarily beta carotene, in addition to eating a diet that is

richer in A than the SAD? Sorry to beat a dead horse, i just want to make

sure i'm not doing more harm than good while pregnant and don't have near

the nutritional knowledge as many people on this group (although i am

enjoying learning!!!)

Elaine

[Guest guest]

Just to reiterate Liz' well made point, these issues regarding

Vitamin A excess are completely unfounded in people eating food.

With the very very very odd exception type situation Liz mentioned.

Consuming food as your primary A source allows for enormous amounts

of A to be consumed whereas consuming isolated synthetic A will cause

toxicity for sure and all of the studies on this issue involve

synthetic A which is as about as different from naturally occuring A

as an elephant and a spoon.

DMM

>

> In a message dated 9/25/02 3:24:59 AM, @y...

> writes:

>

> >it occurred to me only after she left that the research on vit. A

toxicity

> >

> >may have been done with *synthetic* vit. A. clearly, WAP's groups

were

> >not

> >

> >dropping from vit. A toxicity, so there was something about their

> >

> >nutrition/lifestyles that prevented any problems with vit. A

toxicity.

> >also,

> >

> >i mentioned to her that current research on vit. A toxicity is

conflicting.

> >

> >one large-scale study gave 300,000 IU daily to a large group of

people

> >for 2

> >

> >years and no toxicity symptoms were noted! i do think it's an

interesting

> >

> >question that she raised though - is it possible to get vit. A

toxicity

> >from

> >

> >eating large amounts of saturated fat?

>

> Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease (2002) says that although

vitamin A

> toxicity from too much liver has been reported ( chronic (years)

> over-consumption of liver or eating of something exotic like polar

bear

> liver) , most vitamin A toxicity is associated with prolonged

consumption of

> very high potency single nutrient supplements of pre-formed vitamin

A

> (retinol -- not beta-carotene). Symtoms include headache,

bone/joint pain,

> elevated liver enzymes, liver disease. Krause's Food, Nutrition and

Diet

> Therapy (2000) says that " persistent large does of vitamin A (over

1000 times

> the required amount " ... -- required for adult woman is 800 retinol

> equivalents (RE), for men, 1000 RE -- ... " which overcome the

capacity of

> theliver to store the vitamin, can produce intoxication. This is

marked by

> high plasma levels of retinyl ester associated with lipoproteins.

> Hypervitaminosis in humans in characterized by changes in the skin

and

> mucous membranes. Dry lips (cheilitis) is a common early sign,

followed by

> dryness of the nasal mucosa and eyes; later signs include dryness,

erythema,

> scaling and peeling of the skin, hair loss, and nail fragility.

Headache,

> nausea and vomiting have also been reported. (Weight loss is not

uncommon)

> Very high intakes {exceeding 66,000 IU/day--(1000 IU = 300 RE)} can

cause

> liver disease. " Too much vitamin A can be measured -- serum

vitamin A of 250

> -6600 IU/ml. Most vulnerable to over dose of pre-formed vitamin A

is unborn

> fetus -- would need daily exposure of more than 20,000 - 25, 000

IUs. .

> Accutane -- an acne medication is basically retinol -- huge does of

> pre-formed vitamin A -- a girl on this stuff has to have monthly

pregancy

> test to make sure she's not pregnant because the it could harm the

fetus. It

> works by making the facial skin peel.

>

> Remember that beta-carotene, the pro-vitamin found in plants food

is

> completely non-toxic -- most you can get from too much is yellowing

of the

> skin.

>

> In light of the above, I can't imagine someone eating a la

Nourishing

> Traditions or even high protein/high fat diets incurring a problem

with toxic

> levels of vitamin A unless they eat something like beef liver daily

for a

> long time or take large quantities of retinol supplements for a

long time.

> Sometimes Inuits and other artic people who eat polar bear liver

have some t

> oxicity symptoms such as peeling skin; there have been one or two

reported

> deaths (young girl who ate a whole polar bear liver was supposed to

have

> died). I think some of the mainstream writers (who freak at the

idea of

> people eating meat and fat) use issues like vitamin A toxicity to

scare

> people.

>

> Oddly enough in an exchange with Sally once wherein I complained of

some

> menopause symptoms, she advised that I take in much more vitamin A!!

>

>

>

> Namaste, Liz

> <A HREF= " http://www.csun.edu/~ecm59556/Healthycarb/index.html " >

> http://www.csun.edu/~ecm59556/Healthycarb/index.html</A>

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much!! My supplement is all food based and entirely free of

synthetics so i will keep taking it. Thanks again. The peace of mind is very

important to me.

Elaine

I would drop this completely unless this supplement is being made

from food concentrates. This is likely also synthetic A and I would

not be supplementing it for any reason.

The rest is just fine. As I said you'll have to work awfully hard to

exceed your A tolerance from just foods alone.

DMM

[Guest guest]

in addition to the 15000 IU of A daily in supplement

> -- which is primarily beta carotene

I would drop this completely unless this supplement is being made

from food concentrates. This is likely also synthetic A and I would

not be supplementing it for any reason.

The rest is just fine. As I said you'll have to work awfully hard to

exceed your A tolerance from just foods alone.

DMM

[Guest guest]

Hi Elaine,

Sorry for the delay on my response and thanks to those that answered. I was

muddling through information in between work to try and give you an

intelligent

answer on palmitate. Its synthetic and water soluble which surprised me as a

recommendation.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>>>>So, am i safe consuming about 6000 IU of A through (mercury free) cod

liver

oil, as NT recommends, in addition to the 15000 IU of A daily in supplement

-- which is primarily beta carotene, in addition to eating a diet that is

richer in A than the SAD?

---->elaine, i second dr. mike's recommendation to drop the supplement with

the isolated beta-carotene. carotenoids are generally found as a 'complex'

in nature, not isolated, and the one in your supplement could very well be

synthetic, which i believe has a different molecular structure than the

natural form. if you feel you really need to take a carotenoid supplement,

the only one i feel comfortable with (and take myself) is " beta-plex " from

Scientific Botanicals. It's a mixed, food-derived carotenoid complex,

recommended by master herbalist and clinical nutritionist Yance in

" Herbal Medicine, Healing & Cancer. "

but the only online distributor i've been able to find is in seattle, WA

(http://www.fyh.com/).

i don't know what the vit. A requirements are for pregnant women, so i can't

comment on whether you are getting enough from CLO and diet. the general

idea behind taking carotenoid pre-cursors is that you can't overdose as the

body only converts what it needs.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Elaine, I went back and read my post and while I don't really have a

difficulty with the A supp. per se, I wanted you to know that my post

was not an endorsement either. I don't see any reason to be

supplementing A in addition to your primary food sources unless you

are not eating well or if there is a specific condition you are

approaching. I support whatever decision you make I just felt that

my post could be misconstrued so I wanted to clarify.

DMM

> Thank you very much!! My supplement is all food based and entirely

free of

> synthetics so i will keep taking it. Thanks again. The peace of

mind is very

> important to me.

> Elaine

>

>

> I would drop this completely unless this supplement is being made

> from food concentrates. This is likely also synthetic A and I would

> not be supplementing it for any reason.

>

> The rest is just fine. As I said you'll have to work awfully hard

to

> exceed your A tolerance from just foods alone.

>

> DMM

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But Dr. Price noted in NAPD that excessive cod liver oil had toxic symptoms,

but that he found a tsp and a half a day to be _well_ within that limit.

But I wonder, since Vit A is fat soluble, could it be a major factor whether

or not enough saturated fat is consumed? Someone said there are rare cases

of excessive beef liver consumption leading to toxicity, but I wonder if this

depends on the rest of the diet. The US RDA's call for a _maximum_ of 20

grams of saturated fat a day, but I estimate I consume _upwards_ of 100 grams

a day, probably close to 80 in butterfat between my milk, butter, and whipped

cream. So do you think this extra fat would help me process the amount of A

I get from eating 3-5 servings a liver a week better than someone who eats

liver that much but otherwise follows the standard nutritional

recommendations of low sat fat diet?

Chris

In a message dated 9/26/02 4:12:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

mmarasco@... writes:

> Just to reiterate Liz' well made point, these issues regarding

> Vitamin A excess are completely unfounded in people eating food.

> With the very very very odd exception type situation Liz mentioned.

> Consuming food as your primary A source allows for enormous amounts

> of A to be consumed whereas consuming isolated synthetic A will cause

> toxicity for sure and all of the studies on this issue involve

> synthetic A which is as about as different from naturally occuring A

> as an elephant and a spoon.

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

I don't remember Price specifically stating the vit A was the source

of the toxic symptoms. I would be more inclined to lay the toxicity

at the feet of the PUFA that comprises clo. Also keep in mind that

clo is very concentrated as is the A in liver. My experience has

been if you are not consuming large amounts of these concentrated A

sources it would be theoretically possible but practically impossible

to arrive at any A toxicity levels. The sat fat would certainly have

a protective effect against the pufa.

DMM

> But Dr. Price noted in NAPD that excessive cod liver oil had toxic

symptoms,

> but that he found a tsp and a half a day to be _well_ within that

limit.

>

> But I wonder, since Vit A is fat soluble, could it be a major

factor whether

> or not enough saturated fat is consumed? Someone said there are

rare cases

> of excessive beef liver consumption leading to toxicity, but I

wonder if this

> depends on the rest of the diet. The US RDA's call for a _maximum_

of 20

> grams of saturated fat a day, but I estimate I consume _upwards_ of

100 grams

> a day, probably close to 80 in butterfat between my milk, butter,

and whipped

> cream. So do you think this extra fat would help me process the

amount of A

> I get from eating 3-5 servings a liver a week better than someone

who eats

> liver that much but otherwise follows the standard nutritional

> recommendations of low sat fat diet?

>

> Chris

>

> In a message dated 9/26/02 4:12:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> mmarasco@c... writes:

>

> > Just to reiterate Liz' well made point, these issues regarding

> > Vitamin A excess are completely unfounded in people eating

food.

> > With the very very very odd exception type situation Liz

mentioned.

> > Consuming food as your primary A source allows for enormous

amounts

> > of A to be consumed whereas consuming isolated synthetic A will

cause

> > toxicity for sure and all of the studies on this issue involve

> > synthetic A which is as about as different from naturally

occuring A

> > as an elephant and a spoon.

>

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion?

It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings,

birds, and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the

sight of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and

intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them

unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any

creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for

enemies of the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/28/02 2:03:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

emarshall@... writes:

> How many IUs of vitamin A are in say, a tablespoon of pasture-fed raw

> better, or a half-cup of similar cream and milk, or in so many ounces of

> pasture fed beef? I have no idea how much A i'm consuming in my food.

Seven Stars Farms pastured pasteurized yogurt has 29% of the US RDA of Vit A,

which I think is probably roughly 150 IU. My guess is that if it were

unpasteurized it would be more like 200 IU or a little bit more, but I forget

what percentage of A is destroyed by pasteurization. Since the A is in the

butterfat, a serving of milk, cream, or other dairy products would be roughly

equivalent.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Suze below is an excerpt from a WAP article I'm sure you've seen but

these are the two references to this excerpt. This may help.

P Mastroiacovo and others. " High vitamin A intake in early pregnancy

and major malformations: a multicenter prospective controlled study. "

Teratology. January 1999 59(1):1-2.

UW Wiegand and others. " Safety of vitamin A: recent results. "

International Journal of Vitamin and Nutrition Research. 1998, 68

(6):411-6.

VITAMIN -A KNAVERY

Even worse than vitamin-A vagary is vitamin-A knavery in the form of

concerns that vitamin A may be toxic in more than the minuscule RDA-

recommended amounts. In fact, so great is the propaganda against the

vitamin that obstetricians and pediatricians are now warning patients

to avoid foods containing vitamin A!

Recently an " expert " panel recommended lowering the RDA (recommended

daily allowance) for vitamin A from 5000 IU daily to about 2500 IU

and has set an upper limit of about 10,000 IUs for women. The panel

was headed by Dr. of Tufts University, who warned that

intake over the " upper limit " may cause irreversible liver damage and

birth defects—a ridiculous statement in view of the fact that just a

few decades ago pregnant women were routinely advised to take cod

liver oil daily and eat liver several times per week. One tablespoon

of cod liver oil contains at least 15,000 IU and one serving of liver

can contain up to 40,000 IU vitamin A. epitomizes the

establishment view when he insists that vitamin-A requirements can be

met with one-half cup of carrots daily.

The anti-vitamin-A campaign began in 1995 with the publication of a

Boston University School of Medicine study published in the New

England Journal of Medicine.15 " Teratogenicity of High Vitamin A

Intake, " by J. Rothman and his colleagues, correlates vitamin-

A consumption among more than 22,000 pregnant women with birth

defects occurring in subsequent offspring. The study received

extensive press coverage in the same publications that had earlier

extolled the benefits of vitamin A. " Study Links Excess Vitamin A and

Birth Defects " by Jane Brody appeared on the front page of the New

York Times on October 7, 1995; on November 24, 1995, the Washington

Times reported: " High doses of vitamin A linked to babies' brain

defects. "

When a single study receives front-page coverage, it's important to

take a closer look, especially as earlier research discovered the

importance of vitamin A in preventing birth defects. In fact, the

defects listed as increasing with increased vitamin A dosage—cleft

lip, cleft palate, hydrocephalus and major heart malformations—are

also defects of vitamin A deficiency.

In the study, researchers asked over 22,000 women to respond to

questionnaires about their eating habits and supplement intake before

and during pregnancy. Their responses were used to determine vitamin-

A status. As reported in the newspapers, researchers found that

cranial-neural-crest defects increased with increased dosages of

vitamin A; what the papers did not report was the fact that neural

tube defects decreased with increased vitamin A consumption, and that

no trend was apparent with musculoskeletal, urogenital or other

defects. The trend was much less pronounced, and less statistically

significant, when cranial-neural-crest defects were correlated with

vitamin-A consumption from food alone.

The study is compromised by a number of flaws. Vitamin-A status was

assessed by the inaccurate method of recall and questionnaires; and

no blood tests were taken to determine the actual usable vitamin-A

status of the mothers. Researchers did not weight birth defects

according to severity; thus we do not know whether the defects of

babies born to mothers taking high doses of vitamin A were serious or

minor compared to those of mothers taking lower amounts.

The most serious flaw was that researchers failed to distinguish

between manufactured vitamin A in the form of retinol, found in

supplements and added to fabricated foods, from natural vitamin-A

complex, present with numerous co-factors, from vitamin-A-containing

foods. It is well known that synthetic vitamins are less biologically

active, hence less effective, than naturally occurring vitamins. This

is especially true of the fat-soluble vitamins like vitamin A,

because these tend to be more complex molecules, with numerous double

bonds and a multiplicity of forms. Natural vitamin A occurs as a

mixture of various isomers, aldehydes, esters, acids and alcohols.

Pure retinoic acid, a metabolite of vitamin A used to treat adult

acne, is well known to cause birth defects. Apparently pure retinol

has teratogenic properties in high amounts as well.

Researchers found that cranial-neural-crest defects increased in

proportion to the amount of retinol from supplements consumed during

the first trimester of pregnancy (although the total number of

defects remained stable up to 15,000 IU daily). Research into vitamin

A has indicated that many factors interfere with its absorption and

utilization. Inadequate fat in the diet, poor production of bile

salts, low enzyme status, and compromised liver function can all

interfere with the uptake and usage of vitamin A, especially when

given as a supplement in the form of retinol, rather than as a

component of whole foods. It may be that the teratogenic effects of

commercial vitamin-A preparations are exacerbated in women whose

dietary practices and general health status are poor. Some

researchers believe that synthetic vitamin A interferes with the

proper utilization of natural vitamin A from foods.

Pure retinol is added to many fabricated foods like margarine,

breakfast cereals and pizza. The study made no distinction between

those women whose vitamin A was supplied by whole animal foods and

those who ingested retinol added to margarine, white flour and

extruded breakfast cereals—foods which contain many other factors

that can cause birth defects. Natural vitamin A provided by liver,

eggs, butter, cream and cod liver oil is well recognized as providing

excellent protection against birth defects.

Distinctions between synthetic and natural vitamin A have been absent

in the extensive media coverage of this study—on the contrary, the

newspaper reports contain implied warnings against pregnant women

eating liver, dairy products, meat and eggs, but none against eating

fabricated foods like margarine and breakfast cereals to which

synthetic vitamin A is added. And there has been no media coverage

for subsequent studies, which found that high levels of vitamin A did

not increase the risk of birth defects. A study carried out in Rome,

Italy found no congenital malformations among 120 infants exposed to

more than 50,000 IU of vitamin A per day.16 A study from Switzerland

looked at blood levels of vitamin A in pregnant women and found that

a dose of 30,000 IU per day resulted in blood levels that had no

association with birth defects.17

> last year our local WAPF chapter ran a booth at the Common Ground

Fair,

> which is a big agricultural fair put on by the maine organic

farmers and

> gardeners association. 50,000 people attend. in any event, the day

i was

> running the booth, one of the people who stopped to talk was a

nutritionist

> who was very upset with the foundation's emphasis on animal fats,

which she

> said could cause vitamin A toxicity. she said it was " dangerous " or

> something to that effect, and she wrote down all the names of the

books were

> displaying and/or selling, for what purpose i don't know. i debated

the vit.

> a toxicity subject with her for a little bit, but i didn't know a

heck of a

> lot about the subject then, and still feel like i don't have a good

handle

> on it. i told her the WAPF didn't make a recommendation for a

specific

> quantitiy of any nutrient that i was aware of, but rather made

general

> recommendations for things like animal fats and other foods

characteristic

> of healthy traditional diets. so how she could determine that that

would

> cause vit. a toxicity, i don't know.

>

> nonetheless she was adament that the emphasis on animal fats, and

perhaps

> cod liver oil could be harmful in regards to vit. a. i have no

doubt that

> stuffing oneself with animal fats is not problematic in terms of

vitamin a,

> but i'm not so clear on the CLO issue, nor am i very familiar with

studies

> that have been done on vit. a toxicity. i keep hearing that only

*synthetic*

> vit. a is toxic, but not *natural* vitamin a. does anyone know what

the

> basis of that is? it sounds logical, but is it based on actual

data?

>

> i will be running the wapf booth at the same fair in two days and

would like

> to get a little more informed about the vit. a issue in case this

> nutritionist comes back to debate it with me. if anyone has any

studies that

> measured toxicity of synthetic and natural forms, that would be

helpful. i

> do have one reference about a study that fed 300,000 iu vit. a to

283 people

> for up to 2 years and found no symptoms associatied with

hypervitaminosis A.

> no mention of which form it was. however, my understanding is that

it's an

> individual thing, with some tolerating much higher amounts than

others.

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -

-

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

More...

Orfanos CE, Zouboulis CC, Almond-Roesler B, Geilen CC. Current use

and future potential role of retinoids in dermatology. Drugs

1997;53:358-88.

Die-Smulders CE, Sturkenboom MC, Veraart J, van Katwijk C,

Sastrowijoto P, van der LE. Severe limb defects and craniofacial

anomalies in a fetus conceived during acitretin therapy. Teratology

1995;52:215-9.

Mills CM, Marks R. Adverse reactions to oral retinoids. An update.

Drug Saf 1993;9:280-90.

Heckel S, Favre R, Weber P, Dellenbach P. [Teratogenicity of

retinoids. A case and review of the literature]. J

Gynecol.Obstet.Biol.Reprod.(Paris) 1993;22:43-7.

Nau H. Embryotoxicity and teratogenicity of topical retinoic acid.

Skin Pharmacol. 1993;6 Suppl 1:35-44.

Pinnock CB, Alderman CP. The potential for teratogenicity of vitamin

A and its congeners. Med.J Aust. 1992;157:804-9.

RK, Hendrickx AG, Mills JL, Hummler H, Wiegand UW.

Periconceptional vitamin A use: how much is teratogenic?

Reprod.Toxicol. 1998;12:75-88.

Wiegand UW, Hartmann S, Hummler H. Safety of vitamin A: recent

results. Int.J Vitam.Nutr Res. 1998;68:411-6.

The original study showing birth defects associated with intake of

mostly synthetic vitamin A exceeding 5,000 IU daily was published

November 23, 1995 in the New England Journal of Medicine.46 Other

studies showing an association of birth defects with vitamin A

concerned topical creams containing vitamin A derivatives such as

Accutane, or extremely high doses of A used in animal studies.47-52

A later study, less well publicized, from the National Institute of

Child Health and Human Development (NICHD), found no association with

birth defects in women who took up to 10,000 IU of vitamin A during

pregnancy. Because few women took more than 10,000 IU, researchers

could not determine whether higher doses were a problem. Later Mills

and others continued their research and determined that after serum

testing and determining safe serum levels, women taking 30,000 IU of

preformed vitamin A from animal foods (not beta-carotene) daily had

the same blood levels of A as healthy pregnant women in the first

trimester who had healthy babies. The conclusion is that a dosage

over 30,000 IU vitamin A daily may be teratogenic for a certain few,

but anything up to that amount is safe.53-54

Thus if you are or may become pregnant, limit cod liver oil intake to

not more than a total vitamin A value of 30,000 IU. If using my

favorite brand, Carlson Labs cod liver oil, that would equal the

amount of vitamin A found in 12 teaspoons or 4 tablespoons, more than

anyone would ever take. If using high-vitamin cod liver oil, the

limit would be 2 tablespoons. Two tablespoons of regular cod liver

oil provide 15,000 IU vitamin A, 2600 IU vitamin D and 6 grams of

mixed omega-3 fatty acids, safe for pregnancy and good for mom and

baby.

There is one situation in which high levels of vitamin A are not

recommended and that is the condition of certain types of liver

disease in which there is altered vitamin A metabolism. This is

frequently the case with alcoholism. Alcoholics should not take high

doses (not more than 1-1.5 tablespoons of regular cod liver oil) and

what they do take should be accompanied by zinc supplements. The

enzymes needed for vitamin A metabolism in the liver are zinc

dependent.

The most likely culprits for production of birth defects in humans

are topical and oral vitamin A analogs, not cod liver oil.

Researchers have criticized the original 1995 study, from which

governmental policy has been derived, for overstating the negative

effect. Only 1.4 percent took supplements exceeding 10,000 IU a day,

not a large enough sample from which to draw conclusions. However, it

is important to never combine cod liver oil or vitamin A from

supplements with oral or topical medications for acne or other skin

disorders treated with retinoic acid derivatives.

> > last year our local WAPF chapter ran a booth at the Common Ground

> Fair,

> > which is a big agricultural fair put on by the maine organic

> farmers and

> > gardeners association. 50,000 people attend. in any event, the

day

> i was

> > running the booth, one of the people who stopped to talk was a

> nutritionist

> > who was very upset with the foundation's emphasis on animal fats,

> which she

> > said could cause vitamin A toxicity. she said it was " dangerous "

or

> > something to that effect, and she wrote down all the names of the

> books were

> > displaying and/or selling, for what purpose i don't know. i

debated

> the vit.

> > a toxicity subject with her for a little bit, but i didn't know a

> heck of a

> > lot about the subject then, and still feel like i don't have a

good

> handle

> > on it. i told her the WAPF didn't make a recommendation for a

> specific

> > quantitiy of any nutrient that i was aware of, but rather made

> general

> > recommendations for things like animal fats and other foods

> characteristic

> > of healthy traditional diets. so how she could determine that

that

> would

> > cause vit. a toxicity, i don't know.

> >

> > nonetheless she was adament that the emphasis on animal fats, and

> perhaps

> > cod liver oil could be harmful in regards to vit. a. i have no

> doubt that

> > stuffing oneself with animal fats is not problematic in terms of

> vitamin a,

> > but i'm not so clear on the CLO issue, nor am i very familiar

with

> studies

> > that have been done on vit. a toxicity. i keep hearing that only

> *synthetic*

> > vit. a is toxic, but not *natural* vitamin a. does anyone know

what

> the

> > basis of that is? it sounds logical, but is it based on actual

> data?

> >

> > i will be running the wapf booth at the same fair in two days and

> would like

> > to get a little more informed about the vit. a issue in case this

> > nutritionist comes back to debate it with me. if anyone has any

> studies that

> > measured toxicity of synthetic and natural forms, that would be

> helpful. i

> > do have one reference about a study that fed 300,000 iu vit. a to

> 283 people

> > for up to 2 years and found no symptoms associatied with

> hypervitaminosis A.

> > no mention of which form it was. however, my understanding is

that

> it's an

> > individual thing, with some tolerating much higher amounts than

> others.

> >

> > Suze Fisher

> > Lapdog Design, Inc.

> > Web Design & Development

> > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> > http://www.westonaprice.org

> >

> > ----------------------------

> > " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and

cholesterol

> cause

> > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our

times. " -

> -

> > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

> Vanderbilt

> > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

> >

> > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> > <http://www.thincs.org>

> > ----------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> >