German medical group recommends placebos

[Guest guest]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/german-medical-group-recommends-placebos/article1965358/

German medical

group recommends placebos

Anderssen

Globe

and Mail Update

Posted on Thursday, March

31, 2011 2:47PM EDT

Consider this ethical dilemma: A doctor believes a fake pill

might work better for your difficult symptoms – and have fewer

side effects – than real medication. But it only works if she

doesn’t tell you the truth. Should she do it?

In North America and Britain, medical associations have balked at

the idea, saying that giving placebos without patient consent is

unethical. (Even though previous studies suggest as many as half of

the doctors in Britain, Denmark and the United States are doing so

regularly. )

[Guest guest]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/german-medical-group-recommends-placebos/article1965358/

German medical

group recommends placebos

Anderssen

Globe

and Mail Update

Posted on Thursday, March

31, 2011 2:47PM EDT

Consider this ethical dilemma: A doctor believes a fake pill

might work better for your difficult symptoms – and have fewer

side effects – than real medication. But it only works if she

doesn’t tell you the truth. Should she do it?

In North America and Britain, medical associations have balked at

the idea, saying that giving placebos without patient consent is

unethical. (Even though previous studies suggest as many as half of

the doctors in Britain, Denmark and the United States are doing so

regularly. )

[Guest guest]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/german-medical-group-recommends-placebos/article1965358/

German medical

group recommends placebos

Anderssen

Globe

and Mail Update

Posted on Thursday, March

31, 2011 2:47PM EDT

Consider this ethical dilemma: A doctor believes a fake pill

might work better for your difficult symptoms – and have fewer

side effects – than real medication. But it only works if she

doesn’t tell you the truth. Should she do it?

In North America and Britain, medical associations have balked at

the idea, saying that giving placebos without patient consent is

unethical. (Even though previous studies suggest as many as half of

the doctors in Britain, Denmark and the United States are doing so

regularly. )

[Guest guest]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/german-medical-group-recommends-placebos/article1965358/

German medical

group recommends placebos

Anderssen

Globe

and Mail Update

Posted on Thursday, March

31, 2011 2:47PM EDT

Consider this ethical dilemma: A doctor believes a fake pill

might work better for your difficult symptoms – and have fewer

side effects – than real medication. But it only works if she

doesn’t tell you the truth. Should she do it?

In North America and Britain, medical associations have balked at

the idea, saying that giving placebos without patient consent is

unethical. (Even though previous studies suggest as many as half of

the doctors in Britain, Denmark and the United States are doing so

regularly. )

[Guest guest]

First of all, there isn't much of a placebo dilemma, since it works just as well

if you tell the patient that they are getting placebo. Second of all, the

placebo value of supplements such as fish oil or SAMe is an added bonus. In

depression and anxiety, even the pharma data indicates that placebo and the drug

are about equally effective. If there really was such a thing as evidence based

psychiatry, the evidence supports giving patients a placebo first before any

other treatment.

>

>

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/german-medical-group-recommen\

ds-placebos/article1965358/

>

>

> German medical group recommends placebos

>

>

> Anderssen

>

>

> Globe and Mail Update

>

>

> Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:47PM EDT

>

> Consider this ethical dilemma: A doctor believes a fake pill might work

> better for your difficult symptoms -- and have fewer side effects --

> than real medication. But it only works if she doesn't tell you the

> truth. Should she do it?

>

> In North America and Britain, medical associations have balked at the

> idea, saying that giving placebos without patient consent is unethical.

> (Even though previous studies

>

<http://www.mdjunction.com/fibro-challenges/articles/50-of-doctors-prescribe-pla\

cebos>

> suggest as many as half of the doctors in Britain, Denmark and the

> United States are doing so regularly. )

>

> But the German Medical Association is actually recommending that doctors

> in that country do it more often, after a major study found that

> placebos often work -- especially for chronicpain and depression, which

> can be hard to treat and often involve medications with severe side

> effects. (Placebos are usually made up of ingredients such as sugar or

> flour, though they may also be vitamins or herbal supplements.)

>

> The British Medical Association has taken a strong stand again

> prescribing placebos, arguing that it would erode trust between patients

> and physicians. But the German doctors says that although placebos

> should not be used for illnesses such as cancer or broken bones, they

> can be effective in cases where some of the symptoms are subjective.

> Even then, they shouldn't be used when other effective treatment exists,

> said Dr. Scriba, chair of the German Medical Association's

> advisory board.

>

> And although doctors don't have to use the word " placebo, " they should

> tell patients they are getting an unusual treatment. " You could tell the

> patient you have something that has helped other patients with their

> condition, and you consider it possible this treatment might help, " Dr.

> Scriba was quoted as saying in a Canadian Press story. (The American

> Medication Association, on the other hand, emphasizes that doctors can't

> give placebos to deal with a difficult patient, or out of convenience,

> and then not without the patient's knowledge. In Canada, a medical

> working group on ethics has previously suggested

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1188891/?page=1> that using

> placebos in trials where an effective treatment exists is unethical.)

>

> Ted Kaptchuk, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical

> School, has done research that suggests it may not always be necessary

> for the patient to be kept in the dark.

>

> In a small-scale study published last December involving 80 patients

> with irritablebowelsyndrome, half were given no treatment while the

> other half knowingly took daily " sugar pills " stored in bottles labelled

> " placebo. " The fake meds appeared to work roughly as well as some of the

> most powerful medication for IBS.

>

> Another study

> <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100916073246.htm>

> published last fall found that sexual satisfaction among women improved

> after taking a placebo to increase their sex drive. If a fake pill could

> make you better, would you be okay with your doctor not telling you

> about it?

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah! The only dilemma is how to keep making insane

profits...... where is the Hippocratic Oath and all that implies?

On 4/13/2011 11:33 PM, n8healer wrote:

First of all, there isn't much of a placebo dilemma, since it works just as well if you tell the patient that they are getting placebo. Second of all, the placebo value of supplements such as fish oil or SAMe is an added bonus. In depression and anxiety, even the pharma data indicates that placebo and the drug are about equally effective. If there really was such a thing as evidence based psychiatry, the evidence supports giving patients a placebo first before any other treatment.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/german-medical-group-recommends-placebos/article1965358/

German medical group recommends placebos

Anderssen

Globe and Mail Update

Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:47PM EDT

Consider this ethical dilemma: A doctor believes a fake pill might work better for your difficult symptoms -- and have fewer side effects -- than real medication. But it only works if she doesn't tell you the truth. Should she do it?

In North America and Britain, medical associations have balked at the idea, saying that giving placebos without patient consent is unethical. (Even though previous studies <http://www.mdjunction.com/fibro-challenges/articles/50-of-doctors-prescribe-placebos> suggest as many as half of the doctors in Britain, Denmark and the United States are doing so regularly. )

But the German Medical Association is actually recommending that doctors in that country do it more often, after a major study found that placebos often work -- especially for chronicpain and depression, which can be hard to treat and often involve medications with severe side effects. (Placebos are usually made up of ingredients such as sugar or flour, though they may also be vitamins or herbal supplements.)

The British Medical Association has taken a strong stand again prescribing placebos, arguing that it would erode trust between patients and physicians. But the German doctors says that although placebos should not be used for illnesses such as cancer or broken bones, they can be effective in cases where some of the symptoms are subjective. Even then, they shouldn't be used when other effective treatment exists, said Dr. Scriba, chair of the German Medical Association's advisory board.

And although doctors don't have to use the word "placebo," they should tell patients they are getting an unusual treatment. "You could tell the patient you have something that has helped other patients with their condition, and you consider it possible this treatment might help," Dr. Scriba was quoted as saying in a Canadian Press story. (The American Medication Association, on the other hand, emphasizes that doctors can't give placebos to deal with a difficult patient, or out of convenience, and then not without the patient's knowledge. In Canada, a medical working group on ethics has previously suggested <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1188891/?page=1> that using placebos in trials where an effective treatment exists is unethical.)

Ted Kaptchuk, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, has done research that suggests it may not always be necessary for the patient to be kept in the dark.

In a small-scale study published last December involving 80 patients with irritablebowelsyndrome, half were given no treatment while the other half knowingly took daily "sugar pills" stored in bottles labelled "placebo." The fake meds appeared to work roughly as well as some of the most powerful medication for IBS.

Another study <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100916073246.htm> published last fall found that sexual satisfaction among women improved after taking a placebo to increase their sex drive. If a fake pill could make you better, would you be okay with your doctor not telling you about it?

------------------------------------