Re: AP Bashing

[Guest guest]

Well Said Martha!!! You hit the nail right on the head. How awful is it when

average size people ask you to stop doing " dwarf things " as if you purposefully

do it to get attention and/or pity. Excuse me for sounding like a valley girl,

but, " As if!! "

This listserve is called " Dwarfism " , not " Average-size- people-in-a-dwarf-world,

a listserve on how to cope. "

Mind you, I am one dwarf, who pretty much on an everyday basis hangs out with

AP's, don't really have any dwarfs in my area. So I am not one of those dwarfs

with a chip on my shoulder who hate the rest of the average size world. I feel

those dwarfs are just as bad as the AP's who make fun of dwarfs.

BUT,

Something that really gets me angry is when AP on this listserve (or heck, even

acquaintances in person) tell us, on certain issues and situations, to " just get

over it " and " it's not as bad as it seems " . How in the world would you know?!

Your not a dwarf.

Sure there are parents on here (my Mom would kill me if I didn't mention

this:-)), who feel " similar " emotions because they have had to deal with the

backlash of society against his or her child ,in public, who has dwarfism. But,

let me remind you that on bad days, it is nothing, NOTHING like being in our

shoes.

So in conclusion, I'm with Martha on this one, just get over it.

www.ummmyeah.com

[Guest guest]

I have never felt " bashed " on here becaue of my stature. Ihave gleaned much

info and support that I never woudl have been privy to had it nto been for

this list. Im barely average height and I understand that I can never truly

go through what many of you ahve described but I can deeply empathize. I

watch my daughter deal with it and for the most part her classmates and

teachers ahve been very supportive, understandign and accepting. Being

short is just part of HER. I remember the comments like " You better stand up

before you drown in that mudpuddle " , etc. and

that has allowed me to further appreciate the LP angst. Years before our

daughter came along I had a deep interest in advocating for LPs. I had one

guy actually tell me I must have had a childhood obsession with Snow White.

This was when I had tried to explain the thigns AP's take for

granted...reachign shelves, coin slots, toilets, etc. I got very angry.

My reaction would be different today now that I have an LP daughter. I

wouldnt walk away liek I did then.

We live int he same world and we all get screwed despite our shape, size age

or physique at soem point. We still need to learn from each other and lvie

with each other...concentrate on the abilities not disabilites.

Apryl

[Guest guest]

<SHRUG>

that goes both ways. you have no idea what i deal with every day. however, you

also dont want another point of view.

getting over it is the easy one for me.

is it for you?

whims

AP Bashing

>>> " just Whims " <justwhims@...> 01/04/02 06:04AM >>>

i've seen over and over again the hostility directed at BP's and rarely post

because of that; yet i continue to read and learn and enjoy the intelligence

and wit thats been displayed here. i try to ignore the stabs and jabs at

BP's, maybe because of my personality traits to do so.

.... i know i wouldnt have known much more than i did 10 years ago, without

having a reason. luthien s my reason, and i'm glad for that. but the attitudes

i see often here toward BP's make me hesitate to make any commitment other than

being a card-carrying member of LPA.

just my opinion

whims

_________________________

To all the AP/BP on this list who feel bashed or feel this list is hostile - I

was going to say please forgive us, however I feel more like saying " just get

over it " . And if you are true in wanting to be educated please read on.

The reason I stated " just get over it " , is because that is exacting what a

professor in college told me when I complained about Malcolm X calling me and

all cuisines the devil. By the way the professor was also cuisine.

Before you get into the part of the book where Malcolm X goes to Mecca and

returns with a different understanding of the world. I totally agree with that

view. In addition, you should also understand that the majority of LPs have the

same number of general interactions with LPs outside of LPA as APs.

However, this list was developed so that LPs could freely discuss issues

dealing with being an LP. These issues at times deal with our experiences

dealing with APs ignorance and insensitivity. Though I am sure most try to

write in a manner that will hurt the least amount of feelings, none of us are

always successful. Yet, rather that complaining about how we may or may not

hurt your feelings, why don't you try to understand/learn why we make the

comments we do.

I would love to know how many on this list truly feel free and comfortable

discussing dwarfism and the issues involved with the APs in their lives.

Here are a couple of incidents that happened to me just in the past month.

1. A friend who I had know for over 20 years placed an item, without thinking,

out of my reach. I jokingly reminded her, that I was an LP and would be unable

to reach the item where she had placed it, thus she kindly placed where I could.

Well, a couple of days later a mutual friend of ours called me and politely

admonished me for making an issue of being short and not able to reach. How the

other girl felt very bad, and hurt for she never thinks of me as being short.

At that statement I wanted to scream - I am not saying that my dwarfism is the

most important part of my existence, nor am I going it is the major part of my

existence. Yet, for her or anyone to dismiss any part of me is insulting. Then

to add insult to injury to complain that I reminded her.

2. I went to visit another friend, and needed to write something down. Well,

I did the Achron Squat next to a small table. This friend proceeded to tell me

how the position was unlady like. I explained/educated her as to how this was

perfectly normal for a Achondroplastic dwarf, and how in fact is was actually

good for me - for it straighten my spine and relieved the pressure.

Her response was well that's nice, however I still shouldn't do it for it was

unlady like.

Well, a couple of weeks later this discussion came to mind when I was standing

in line to go through security at the airport. Well, this lady, directly in

front of me, needed to get something out of her bag. I know she was a lady for

she did not squat down, she bent over at the waste. I am sure you can imagine

my view the whole entire time she was looking in her bag.

Now if you are still hurt or insulted by LPs' comments on this list, remember

that on a daily basis we, LPs, are hurt and insulted by APs. However, unlike

you, we have had to learn that it is a part of life, and when we can we do

something about it, when we cannot we cope the best we can. Including writing

and complaining to this list.

*****************************************************************

[Guest guest]

> The reason I stated " just get over it " , is because that is exacting

> what a professor in college told me when I complained about Malcolm X

> calling me and all cuisines the devil. By the way the professor was

> also cuisine.

Forgive me, but I don't understand this paragraph. Doesn't " cuisine " mean

a style of food?

Dave

[Guest guest]

Forgive me - I should of done a better job of Spell Checking. I meant Caucasian

>>> Bradford <dbradfor@...> 01/04/02 03:16PM >>>

> The reason I stated " just get over it " , is because that is exacting

> what a professor in college told me when I complained about Malcolm X

> calling me and all cuisines the devil. By the way the professor was

> also cuisine.

Forgive me, but I don't understand this paragraph. Doesn't " cuisine " mean

a style of food?

Dave

*****************************************************************

This email has been scanned by MailMax.

http://www.maximizeit.net

*****************************************************************

*****************************************************************

[Guest guest]

I didn't find this list; my partner, Whims, did and joined before me. Why?

Because she wanted to learn; she wanted to understand. I don't think that

there's anything the matter with that. There's a contradiction: on the one

hand, we want APs to be open-minded about us, and yet we close our own minds

to them.

This list will always be about dwarfism by dwarfs; it's inevitable by numbers

alone. But I do think that it's wrong to " slam the door " in the faces of

those who are different. After all, don't we think that it's wrong when it's

done to one of us?

luthien

[Guest guest]

Well, well To all you people out there I am so sorry at this moment for being

an LP. Man I thought 911 would have change some things but I guess LP minds

don't think that way. The last time I cut myself I had red blood the last

time my friend Greg cut his self it was red,hmmm wait is that possible he is

black and tall. How did that happen I thought we were different! Let see how

many Dwarfs doctors do we have? Is it 2? How many people on this list are

parents of LPs that haven't want to grab someone and tell them stop laughing

at my child " ? I guess when I asked the other day if LPA had a chapter of the

KKK i was right we do and that's a shame! I cant not believe That LPs can

bash tall people hmm I went to my parents tonight and saw them there tall

should I bash them for having me? I know parents that have gone to rooms for

advice and all they do is get hot on. Guess what they are Tall people. and

the ones doing the hitting are LP men now that's funny. Yet we don't want

them on our list LOL . I cant believe you back stabbing LPs!!! Most of you

were bought into this world by tall parents and now you bash all tall people.

My mother said don't throw stones hell you people are taking shots at all

people that are not LPs and YOU SUCK To my friends on the list and parents I

know on the list like Jen, and my buddy Willow. I give you my deepest

sorry for being treated like this you are all wonderful parents! Please don't

raise those great kids of yours like this list. You all are doing a great job

they are Lap's future very sorry Bud to all people

[Guest guest]

" Average-sized people are not barred or excluded from discussing dwarfism

issues, but they are expected them to demonstrate that they are highly

sensitive to such issues, and should show a high degree of respect for the

individual viewpoints of the dwarf members of the list, even if they do

not fully agree with them. "

There have been viewpoints posted here that I could not respect, e.g.,

personal attacks masquerading as opinion. Why should I expect of someone

else what I cannot do myself?

I want to earn someone's respect because of who I am as a person, not because

I happen to be a little person. I don't want special rules for special

people. If the members of the list respected _everyone's_ right to state

their thoughts, their feelings, and their questions in a non-inflammatory

manner, this discussion would be moot.

luthien

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone,

I usually only participate in the SED-Kniest group, but I heard

that there was some heated discusion going on in this group. I hate to

comment in the middle of a discussion that I haven't heard all of, but I feel

so strongly against AP bashing that I really want to put in my two cents.

Most of my family and friends are AP. I have three children- two

are average height, one is a LP. Do I love the LP more or resent my children

who will grow to be " AP " ? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. I am a LP

myself, but I'm kind of tall for an LP and very short for an AP. Who should

bash me- the LPs or APs ? How about not bashing any group of people. I am

sure that most people in this group would not want to judge or criticize

others based on their size!

As for parents, they are a very important part of the SED-Kniest

group. As both an LP and the parent of an LP, I have felt the " average height

parents " have made enormous contributions to the group. (Thanks Willow and

many others!) I can't imagine not including them or wanting to make them

feel unwelcome.

I'm sure there are many in this group that feel the same way.

[Guest guest]

buddreams@... wrote:

> Well, well To all you people out there I am so sorry at

> this moment for being

> an LP. Man I thought 911 would have change some things but

> I guess LP minds

> don't think that way.

I think this wins the Shatner Award for Melodramatic

Hyperbole.

I think I counted a total of one (1) person bashing an AP

(BP, TP, NBA, etc.). But now Bud is sorry for being an LP.

And what does 9/11 have to with a hill of beans? It was

tragic, horrific and saddening, but let's not attach some

quasi-mystical importance to it.

Of course, what do I know? My mind " don't work right. "

-Bill Bradford

[Guest guest]

u say your mind dont work right billy?---oops----bill------NO WAY--------not MR

ALL KNOWING----gotta be a typo----GOTTA BE.----kinda sounds like a confession

dude. u may wanna consider calling 1-800-fix-my-coconut. i hear they have great

rates during winter months and with this referral--another 15% off. operators

are standing by.

& Tina Bradford <tslug@...> wrote: buddreams@... wrote:

> Well, well To all you people out there I am so sorry at

> this moment for being

> an LP. Man I thought 911 would have change some things but

> I guess LP minds

> don't think that way.

I think this wins the Shatner Award for Melodramatic

Hyperbole.

I think I counted a total of one (1) person bashing an AP

(BP, TP, NBA, etc.). But now Bud is sorry for being an LP.

And what does 9/11 have to with a hill of beans? It was

tragic, horrific and saddening, but let's not attach some

quasi-mystical importance to it.

Of course, what do I know? My mind " don't work right. "

-Bill Bradford

[Guest guest]

peter peterson wrote:

>

> u say your mind dont work right

> billy?---oops----bill------NO WAY--------not MR ALL

> KNOWING----gotta be a typo----GOTTA BE.----kinda sounds

> like a confession dude. u may wanna consider calling

> 1-800-fix-my-coconut. i hear they have great rates during

> winter months and with this referral--another 15% off.

> operators are standing by.

>

-------,----aT leeest i kNOw how 2 type---#%-.

---bILl brAdforD (MR ALL KNOWING)

[Guest guest]

now that was a good 1 billy---hows tina?

& Tina Bradford <tslug@...> wrote:

peter peterson wrote:

>

> u say your mind dont work right

> billy?---oops----bill------NO WAY--------not MR ALL

> KNOWING----gotta be a typo----GOTTA BE.----kinda sounds

> like a confession dude. u may wanna consider calling

> 1-800-fix-my-coconut. i hear they have great rates during

> winter months and with this referral--another 15% off.

> operators are standing by.

>

-------,----aT leeest i kNOw how 2 type---#%-.

---bILl brAdforD (MR ALL KNOWING)