Re: Duncan DATA on VCO and hormones

[Guest guest]

Not quite by the hormone chart I have.

Pregnenolone first makes 17a-hydroxypregnenolone, then pregnenolone

And don't forget any hormone cascade chart may not be accurate for any

given individual. Sometimes the conversions don't go the way they are

supposed to. I.E. sometimes DHEA coverts to too much estrogen, etc.

Is it possible that VCO is correcting some malfunction in conversion?

Progesterone, according to Dr. Lee should be in balance with

estrogen in a ratio of 200 progesterone to 1 estrogen. So when I thought

my progesterone was sky high, it was NOT. It was still way too low

compared to my high estradiol, according to Dr. Lee.

I personally have not retested, but from symptoms, my daily use of VCO

hasn't affected my hormone levels much, if any. Could you post again

how much you are taking and how many times a day?

I " m not Duncan but diabetes seems to me like it logically would be

connected to or increase candida.

sol

Bonnie Cole wrote:

> In Dr. Fife's book The Coconut Oil Miracle, he says that VCO is SIMILAR to

> Pregnenolone (the Mother of all hormones) and he is right. Pregnenolone

> first makes DHEA which makes Androstenedione which makes Testosterone which

> makes Estradiol. In that order.

>

>

> I'm sure you know about Progesterone used (topically) and I guess I was

> using too much for a few years. I sent a Blood Spot Test to ZRT Lab in

> Beaverton, Oregon and it showed VERY HIGH Progesterone.

>

>

> And being Diabetic might have something to do with this 'out of control'

> Candida.

[Guest guest]

Bonnie, the info I was looking for is some kind of documented proof

that coconut oil contains any hormone or other substance that may be

converted to pregnenolone. Feeling better with dietary change is not

proof of course so I asked where you got the proof for your statement.

I'd also like to know how this substance might satisfy the body's need

for pregnenolone because as far as I know that reaction is not

happening and VCO will not be able to convert to the hormones preg

converts to.

In other words it may not be the reaction you specified at all that

makes you feel better. What references did Dr. Fife use to establish

his point besides people feeling better? Research data that would

establish whether VCO has any such activity would be nice; conversely,

if this is a myth we'd better kill it today

Bonnie, phytochemicals are created by plants from sunlight (phyto

keyword) and since the plants in your gut are not exposed to sunlight,

I'd expect a better explanation than the passage you quoted from Dr.

Fife below because gut bacteria do not create phytochemicals, and in

fact phytochemicals are anti-bacterial.

In the rest of your letter you made two quotes in which researchers

used the word " must " with no data to back it up, by definition a

guess. I'd still need some kind of proof that the text is not myth.

I'll take that cheque now, Bonnie

all good,

Duncan

> > >> Hello Everyone:

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> When I write (what I feel is) an interesting email, NO ONE

> REPLIES.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I agree with Sol that the hormonal cascades will vary with the

individual. I think that's the reason the specialists are using HGH

increasers to heal glands and balance the rest of the hormones within

the client's unique hormonal cascade controls, rather than tinkering

with hormonal variables within the cascade.

Duncan

> > In Dr. Fife's book The Coconut Oil Miracle, he says that VCO is

SIMILAR to

> > Pregnenolone (the Mother of all hormones) and he is right.

Pregnenolone

> > first makes DHEA which makes Androstenedione which makes

Testosterone which

> > makes Estradiol. In that order.

> >

> >

> > I'm sure you know about Progesterone used (topically) and I guess

I was

> > using too much for a few years. I sent a Blood Spot Test to ZRT

Lab in

> > Beaverton, Oregon and it showed VERY HIGH Progesterone.

> >

> >

> > And being Diabetic might have something to do with this 'out of

control'

> > Candida.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sol, no I haven't had any clients who explored the additional

benefits that tinkering with hormonal levels might have yielded. I

think it's because we in Canada have trouble getting doctors to say

you have low total hormonal values for a young adult as opposed to

adequate hormonal values for one's age group. In other words they have

no interest in optimization unless they are specialists.

On the pituitary recovery question, this is well known by and oft-

mentioned by anti-aging doctors in terms of HGH secretion, and I can

point to people not needing more than a two-year program, after which

they are producing hormonal values that are apparently within a more

youthful if not optimal range for the individual because they are 10-

12 years younger by all other health and sex markers, and stay that

way when the program is discontinued.

Contacting Dr. Ron Meyers, Dr. Philip White, or Dr. MacLeod on

the SomaLife advisory panel would give you that information from the

horse's mouth as they all operate anti-aging clinics and have sen

thousands of patients for treatment.

It's high salt and low K that causes the rhab... but I can appreciate

that you may present a uniqueness that' not shared by 99% and that's

OK. Some people eliminate salt very efficiently.

Duncan

> > I agree with Sol that the hormonal cascades will vary with the

> > individual. I think that's the reason the specialists are using

HGH

> > increasers to heal glands and balance the rest of the hormones

within

> > the client's unique hormonal cascade controls, rather than

tinkering

> > with hormonal variables within the cascade.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Glory, the anti-aging program works marvlously on ladies who have had

a tubal ligation or partial hysterectomy. If the lady has no ovaries

there might be other things to do as well. I advocate doing anti-aging

continuously but I do " rounds " myself to stretch my dollar, not to

" wash out " because washout is not necessary.

Duncan

> > > I agree with Sol that the hormonal cascades will vary with the

> > > individual. I think that's the reason the specialists are using

> HGH

> > > increasers to heal glands and balance the rest of the hormones

> within

> > > the client's unique hormonal cascade controls, rather than

> tinkering

> > > with hormonal variables within the cascade.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bonnie, Here's the passage I'm referring to: " The greatest degree of

protection comes to those who have a healthy digestive tract, because

the type of flora present will affect the production of the

Phytochemicals " .

Again, phytochemicals from bacterial action was the comment I wanted

to check and ther should be a reference for the comment. I only asked

for the reference because you've been mentioning other things in the

book so I thought you had it.

Duncan

> > > >> Hello Everyone:

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> When I write (what I feel is) an interesting email, NO ONE

> > REPLIES.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

you said:

the anti-aging program works marvlously on ladies who have had

> a tubal ligation or partial hysterectomy. If the lady has no

ovaries, there might be other things to do as well.

What else could/should one do if ovaries have been removed (total

hysterectomy)?

Love and Laughter,

Anne

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne; if the lady has no ovaries I think a hormonal assay would be

useful even if she's on an HGH increaser. Not to say she's need extra

estrogen but it's possible.

Duncan

>

> Hi Duncan,

>

> you said:

> the anti-aging program works marvlously on ladies who have had

> > a tubal ligation or partial hysterectomy. If the lady has no

> ovaries, there might be other things to do as well.

>

>

> What else could/should one do if ovaries have been removed (total

> hysterectomy)?

>

> Love and Laughter,

> Anne

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning Sol;

The best effect of an anti-aging program occurs when the client is not

toxic and has all the nutrients available in balance, so if you need

extra salt to stay within that condition, go ahead with it.

I just pointed out the rhabdomyolysis again because a lot of people

who chose to be on high salt shouldn't be, especially without

counteracting it with potassium. Lots of things cause cellular

suppression, and avoiding the condition is important because the

resulting mitochondrial damage does not correct itself very quickly

and low mitochondrial energy (ATP) results in this wasting.

Duncan

> > It's high salt and low K that causes the rhab... but I can

appreciate

> > that you may present a uniqueness that' not shared by 99% and

that's

> > OK. Some people eliminate salt very efficiently.

> >

> >

> To repeat, I have read that high K also can cause it. And I believe

the

> percentages of people who need more salt (lots of it) is much higher

> than 1% of the population. I'm on one list with nearly 2000 members

the

> majority of whom need a lot of salt. The only ones who seem to need

more

> potassium are those actually taking Florinef. Florinef decreases K,

so

> they need to supp it.

>

> So can I do an -anti-aging protocol and keep my salt intake where it

is?

> Or is there something in the protocol that absolutely requires a no

salt

> diet and K supplementation?

> sol

>

[Guest guest]

Why not drink coconut water for your potassium? Then you don't have to worry

about

getting too much. Have you read Bruce Fife's newest book on Coconut Water? It

tells you

what you need to know.

Lee says drink organic orange juice with 1/4 tsp white sea salt for your

minerals. She

tells people to get the their vitamins and minerals from whole foods with the

exception of

vitamin D.

Joan

> Since most people eat far more Soduim than Potassium, adding Potassium

> makes sense to me. I feel much more balanced when supplementing with

> both Sodium and Potassium. My hands used to shake when pouring

> liquids out of a heavy bottle, and my legs lacked stability when

> walking. My blood pressure was marginally low (96/65, measured after

> walking briskly for an hour or so). After adding both Sodium an

> Potassium (more in summer than now), I am far more stable.

>

> How much excess Potassium does it take to significantly increase

> chances of getting a heart attack?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why not drink coconut water for your potassium? Then you don't have to worry

about

getting too much. Have you read Bruce Fife's newest book on Coconut Water? It

tells you

what you need to know.

Lee says drink organic orange juice with 1/4 tsp white sea salt for your

minerals. She

tells people to get the their vitamins and minerals from whole foods with the

exception of

vitamin D.

Joan

> Since most people eat far more Soduim than Potassium, adding Potassium

> makes sense to me. I feel much more balanced when supplementing with

> both Sodium and Potassium. My hands used to shake when pouring

> liquids out of a heavy bottle, and my legs lacked stability when

> walking. My blood pressure was marginally low (96/65, measured after

> walking briskly for an hour or so). After adding both Sodium an

> Potassium (more in summer than now), I am far more stable.

>

> How much excess Potassium does it take to significantly increase

> chances of getting a heart attack?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bonnie, ...from Bruce's book, " Fresh coconut, and perhaps virgin

coconut oil, contains fatlike substances called sterols that are very

similar in structure to pregnenolone. "

....here's what Ray Peat says:

<snip>As far as the evidence goes, it suggests that coconut oil, added

regularly to a balanced diet, lowers cholesterol to normal by

promoting its conversion into pregnenolone. (The coconut family

contains steroids that resemble pregnenolone, but these are probably

mostly removed when the fresh oil is washed with water to remove the

enzymes which would digest the oil.) </snip>

What I get out of it is sterols that resemble pregnenolone may OR MAY

NOT have a similar effect, if they were present, and neither expert

knows whether they are present in useful quantities. Their postulates

could be tested to produce useful data but at this point a connection

between VCO and your elevated hormonal level remains a guess.

Hops tea is known to be a huge source of sterols. Lots of vegetables

contain sterols and sterolins, and these form part of our regular food

chain without causing pregnenolone complications.

Duncan

>

> Duncan:

>

> For crying out loud, don't make me PROVE it to you. Have you not

read any of

> Dr. Fife's books? HE does the research. You only need to read what

I read

> and look up the reference. I didn't say it contained hormones I said

it

> CONTAINS a substance SIMILAR to Pregnenolone. Dr. Fife said it NOT

ME.

[Guest guest]

Celtic sea salt is bad? What about beneficial minerals in it? Is there

any good quality celtic sea salt? bb

[Guest guest]

Hi Sol; if you haven't read The Electrical Properties of Cancer Cells,

I think it would interest you. In it, Dr. Haltiwanger deals with the

extracellular matrix and lymph and how ionic attraction and transfer

of minerals leads to a precancerous condition. The fact it's well-

referenced will be of interest.

http://royalrife.com/haltiwanger.html

Duncan

> > Well, believe what you want, but you might actually want to do

some research. table salt is processed and not complete...the body

does not recognize it as salt that it needs. It is the processing that

strips all the co-factor minerals that is the problem. Celtic sea salt

is perfectly safe and healthy.Nonie> Sigh,> Table salt is NOT poison.

You can get refined " table " salt with NO > additives if you want to

avoid the flow agents, which I do, so I don't > buy iodized salt or

salt with additives. I will not use celtic salt or > other sea salts

because they are filthy, and full of heavy metals.> sol

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

For me and 80%-90% of the others who may be or have been deficient in

potassium, celtic salt contains too much sodium. For all of us, like

Alobar noted, there's not enough of several of the minerals in it for

anything near optimal health. So, I get too much salt from it and not

enough mineral to suit this body. I use Potassium salts in my cooking,

sometimes take a mineral supplement, and have not salted my food with

Celtic for years

Duncan

>

> Celtic sea salt is bad? What about beneficial minerals in it? Is

there

> any good quality celtic sea salt? bb

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't look for quotes on Red Palm Oil, but basically, waxy, bitter

plant parts generally contain more sterols. Hops for example is very

sticky, waxy and bitter, while most food oils are rather bland.

Duncan

> >

> > Duncan:

> >

> > For crying out loud, don't make me PROVE it to you. Have you not

> read any of

> > Dr. Fife's books? HE does the research. You only need to read what

> I read

> > and look up the reference. I didn't say it contained hormones I

said

> it

> > CONTAINS a substance SIMILAR to Pregnenolone. Dr. Fife said it NOT

> ME.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonnie; it seems like pregnenolone might be elevated by conversion

of cholesterol to preg, is what the fellas wrote. If it had been

proven, the thyroid and other hormonal changes should also be noted to

rule out that the elevated preg is part of a balanced anti-aging

process. After all, these hormones at better-than-elderly values are

all associated with youthfulness.

I don't do belief that well; I need data for health purposes.

Duncan

> >

> > Duncan:

> >

> > For crying out loud, don't make me PROVE it to you. Have you not

> read any of

> > Dr. Fife's books? HE does the research. You only need to read what

> I read

> > and look up the reference. I didn't say it contained hormones I

said

> it

> > CONTAINS a substance SIMILAR to Pregnenolone. Dr. Fife said it NOT

> ME.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bonnie, the quote I referred to came from your post. What I NEED is a

reference because I've never seen an indication that phytochemicals

are produced in the gut.

Duncan

> > > > >> Hello Everyone:

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >> When I write (what I feel is) an interesting email, NO ONE

> > > REPLIES.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Bonnie, I'm not an endocrinologist but yes, I'd say something should

be be done; I think the endo might have to jack up other hormones to

achieve more of a balance in addition to doing who-knows to reduce

that much testosterone creation in a woman.

So, anti-aging should still be possible because all it does anyway is

maintain your growth hormones higher than elderly levels normally are.

As you seek to balance the higher testosterone you might be building

up your other longevity hormones somewhat so you might get some anti-

aging benefit anyway, but I'm not sure an endo can do it better than

simply feeding your body a few selected amino acids so your body can

perhaps restore its own balance. And, your readings might be all over

the place because of the cancer, might they not? In that case your

watchful waiting is not over yet.

Regardless, there's no bad time to start anti-aging, because what it

produces is optimal health. I think anyone over 30 is a candidate.

I'd love to take your cheque Bonnie or anyone, or a credit card

donation via http://Paypal.com to society@... for the anti-

addiction trial.

Duncan Crow

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow

6156 Sumas Rd

Duncan BC Canada V9L4R3

> > >

> > > Duncan:

> > >

> > > For crying out loud, don't make me PROVE it to you. Have you not

> > read any of

> > > Dr. Fife's books? HE does the research. You only need to read

what

> > I read

> > > and look up the reference. I didn't say it contained hormones I

> said

> > it

> > > CONTAINS a substance SIMILAR to Pregnenolone. Dr. Fife said it

NOT

> > ME.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bonnie, when hormonal " balance " is required you can elevate the low

and reduce the high hormones in two different approaches that work

together to achieve that. But belief and guesswork doesn't cut it, you

still need data. Maybe YOUR radiation failed to kill testosterone

creation.

We've been doing an anti-addiction trial in Duncan BC for a couple of

years or so through our fellowship. We've seen from half to complete

recovery from addiction in weeks using Salvia Divinorum at low sub-

psychedelic doses. More info is on my salvia page and at the Bouncing

Bear site I link to

Duncan

>

> Duncan:

>

> You can't lower Testosterone by jacking up other hormones. It's not

> Cortisol.

>

> I believe it came from the VCO as Radiation destroys the Ovaries

ability to

> produce hormones, so I wonder where else we can make Testosterone.

>

> You wrote anti-addiction trial at the bottom of this email? What's

that?

>

> Bonnie

>

> _____

[Guest guest]

You did misconstrue the passage, Bonnie. The passage you quoted and I

repeated below contends healthy gut bacteria produce phytochemicals

from the food eaten; this resulted in my request for reference data on

the subject.

Duncan

>

> Duncan:

>

> I might have miscontrued that reference. If a person is TAKING

> Phytochemicals, then when they get in the gut, THEY are used to make

> hormones, right?

>

> Bonnie

>

> _____

> > Bonnie, Here's the passage I'm referring to: " The greatest degree

of

> > protection comes to those who have a healthy digestive tract,

> because

> > the type of flora present will affect the production of the

> > Phytochemicals " .