Atkins and vegetarianism

March 3, 2004

>It is propaganda! I'm sure Lorenzo is not talking " all " vegans but

>there are these people who called themselves the PRCM (Physicians

>Committee for Responsible Medicine), a group that advocates

>vegetarianism stole confidential medical records of the late Dr.

>Atkins and then leaked the medical records to the Wall Street Journal

Actually, the records were sent by the hospital to a doctor in

Nebraska (I haven't read any explanation of who he is), and he

forwarded them to PCRM. They exploited what was offered but the

didn't steal it, according to reports I've read.

Jeanmarie

>

March 3, 2004

> The media then had a field day of the rubbish.

The handling of this kind of story is a good way to judge the

reliability of a news organization. There's a world of difference

between those that simply took the word of PCRM (the lazy,

sensational route) and published their unverified accusations versus

those that did some research and talked to Dr. Atkins' widow, his

doctors, and the hospital and who disclosed what PCRM's real

objectives are (they are biased in favor of extreme vegetarianism and

so aren't necessarily the most reliable source to comment on the

Atkins diet; they have an axe to grind) and tried to present a

balanced picture.

Just fyi, I'm an editor for a financial news organization. They're

definitely not all the same!

Jeanmarie

>This just shows you what kind of people they are and that they'll do

>every dirty trick in the book to get you to stop eating meat. These

>animal-rights activists such as PETA and PRCM claim that low-carb,

>meat-heavy diets are killing people. These Vegans and animal-rights

>activists, for whom meat is as bad ideologically as they believe it

>is physically, the ever-rising profile of low-carb diets is a major

>public-relations setback for them. These people are seriously

>twisted! And I hope Mrs. Atkins pursues a law case against them.

>

>That's great if you feel good eating your way Sharon and I respect

>your rights... but these PETA people just can't leave us meat eaters

>alone. As well, Judith is absolutely right, Atkins is not for

>everyone

>

>The bashers can say all they want... All I have to do to know Atkins

>is for real is to look down... and see my feet instead of my big ol'

>belly.

>

>Keep healthy and be happy!

>Sharon R

>

>> The vegetarian propaganda? You mean that it was vegetarians who

>tried to

>> bring Atkins into disrepute? Well, it could be. But not all

>vegetarians are

>> into propaganda or fighting Atkins. I've been a vegetarian for 30

>years - a

>> natural one, in that I really can't stand meat, but I'm not trying

>to

>> convert the world. I believe in being fair to Atkins - even though

>his diet

>> is not for me because of it being high in meat. I know lots of

>people who

>> lost weight on that diet but it's not for me. I think it's good

>that Atkins

>> showed up the low-fat myths and made people more open to fat.

>>

>> As a vegetarian and especially since changing to coconut oil I feel

>the

>> arguments are far heavier against my choice than for it. Bruce

>Fife,

>> Enig, Sally Fallon, Barry Groves - all people who i respect and

>follow in

>> other respects - are all FOR meat eating. In fact, I feel slightly

>under

>> attack, and don't really understand why they they are so militant

>about it -

>> I've never noticed any huge movement towards vegetarianism, people

>like meat

>> far to much for that to be the case!

>> We really are still a tiny minority and it can be a real problem

>in daily

>> life. Recently I was at a conference on Guadeloupe where there were

>several

>> Indians, who were strict vegetarians. Now I do eat fish, but they

>didn't,

>> the worse for them. They would be given a small salad for an

>appetuiser and

>> a large salad for the main course - each and every day. The poor

>things -

>> especially since one of them hated salad!. They never got to eat

>properly;

>> and it;s like that in many places, which is really a pity because

>there are

>> so many healthy, whole and delicuious meals yoyu can cook withiout

>meat. (I

>> just got back from India so I know!) As for any kind of

>deficiencies - I

>> never worried about it, and haven't noticed anything.

>>

>> I don't need anyone to tell me if it's healthier to eat meat or

>avoid it.. I

>> know that for me, it's better not to. The last time I ate meat was

>on a ship

>> going up the amazon, when there was just meat for every meal and

>little

>> else. At the end of the 10 days I felt terrible - sluggish and

>heavy. The I

> > went to stay with a vegetarian friend in Lima and imediately

>everything

>> changed. I never ate meat again and never missed it - but I don't

>make a big

>> deal out of it. I cook chicken for my kids and steak for my

>husband. My

>> feeling is, as long as you want it, you need it.

>> Sharon M

>

March 3, 2004

At 08:03 PM 3/3/2004 -0800, Jeanmarie Todd wrote:

> > The media then had a field day of the rubbish.

>

>The handling of this kind of story is a good way to judge the

>reliability of a news organization. There's a world of difference

>between those that simply took the word of PCRM (the lazy,

Speaking of PCRM do they have anything to say about coconut oil?

March 4, 2004

>The key foods in causing the problems Dr. Price found are the

>processed carbs that were available in his day. The things made with

>much sugar, white flour and hydrogenated oils.

>

> I doubt very much, if you are nutrition oriented, that you eat, or

>ate, very many such foods.

>

Good points, Judith, avoiding sugar and white flour was one of the

main points too, but in Traditional Foods Are Your Best Medicine, it

specifically points out that the indigenous peoples with the most

vegetarian diets (least animal products) had poorer health overall

than those with more animal food in their diets. Of course eating

lots of vegetables was recommended. Avoiding junk will do a lot of

good, but avoiding junk PLUS getting all the things you need from

eating the right foods will do more good.

Jeanmarie

March 4, 2004

> >The handling of this kind of story is a good way to judge the

>>reliability of a news organization. There's a world of difference

>>between those that simply took the word of PCRM (the lazy,

>

>Speaking of PCRM do they have anything to say about coconut oil?

I'm not sure, I stopped reading their propaganda after I stopped

being a vegetarian. <g> But since they are part of the

anti-cholesterol, anti-saturated fat group, they probably can't

tolerate coconut oil, to be consistent. <g> Just a guess.

Jeanmarie

March 4, 2004

>

> . The Atkins book (if you were

> > going to follow this strictly) does not recommend onions because

of

> > the sugar content.

>

> Actually, this is incorrect. They are limited but not denied even

during

> induction period. After that it is simply a matter of keeping

track of the

> actual carb count for the amount used. Even the recipes in his

books use

> onions. Joy

Don't recall them on the " approved " list of foods during induction.

At any rate, the Atkins book's own carb counter lists around 9.5 per

grams per onion. Assuming a maximum of 20 g of carbs during induction

a couple of whole onions would throw the dieter off the programme.

March 4, 2004

Hi Joan,

Sorry I cannot resist!

Pineapples have only been in the Hawaiian area since Mr. Dole planted them

there.

Next; Hawaiians eat a lot of fish, So do Alaskans.

Pineapples and fish are both fantastic foods.

Best Regards,

Lorenzo

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March 4, 2004

I don't think anyone could ever evolve to survive on the SAD. There is

nothing so little there to build on.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Lorenzo [mailto:lorenzo1@...]

" Perfect Diet: Real food, whole food, whatever works for the person... "

--Agreed, but most people DO NOT seem to care until they are sick; by then

they are too set in their ways to change. (My friends demonstrated this)

-----Original Message-----> is below:

First note, the Greenland Eskimo has lived on Seafood for 10,000 or over a

100,000 years.

Not to be compared to Irish living on potatoes since they were imported from

Peru 500 years ago.

Through all of recorded History populations that were blessed with free time

conducted War by foot, they traveled thousands of miles to conquer and

inbreed with their neighbors; Result inland Europeans are all about the

same racial mix. Probably only a few Armies went from France to Lapland to

bring home a plunder of captured Reindeer.

Now one universal observation that seems to work for the whole world: That

is- When an isolated cohort changes from a successful primitive diet to the

modern store bought sugar, flour and processed food based diet it takes

just about twenty years until they develop Cancer, Cardiovascular Disease

and Diabetes the same as most modern populations.

Dr. Winston Price wrote about this broadly, many others wrote specifically.

Some of our friends who study the evidence relating to human development for

the last 10 million years are promoting new evidence that supports the

theory that our ancestors made the dramatic evolutionary changes from the

Apelike ancestor because they lived only on the seashore and waded and swam

for some millions of years.

They point to: Items that Apes do not have; Little body hair, babies that

float, a layer of fat under the skin, language development, ability to swim

under water, the cold water breath reflex, walking upright, etcetera.

So it is no surprise at least to me that we need the fats found in fish and

wild animals.

Pottinger clearly demonstrated that a population of mammals fed only cooked

food died out, when after three generations no babies lived. He used Cats.

In Europe farming started about 10,000 years ago, The new farmers grew up

shorter than their ancestor hunter gatherers.

Now with 10,000 years on a grain based diet, and about 75 years on a refined

flour based diet most Americans will die of Cancer, Cardiovascular Disease

or Diabetes.

We may need another 10,000 or 100,000 years to develop a digestive system

that can thrive on the new American Standard Diet.

Best Regards,

Lorenzo

March 4, 2004

Huh?

Let me redo this. Believe me, I DO read this stuff before I send it out.

I don't think anyone could ever evolve to survive on the SAD. There is

so little there to build on

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Judith Alta K [mailto:jaltak@...]

I don't think anyone could ever evolve to survive on the SAD. There is

nothing so little there to build on.

Judith Alta

March 4, 2004

on 4/3/04 2:46 AM, Jeanmarie at Coconut Oil

wrote:

> Good points, Judith, avoiding sugar and white flour was one of the

> main points too, but in Traditional Foods Are Your Best Medicine, it

> specifically points out that the indigenous peoples with the most

> vegetarian diets (least animal products) had poorer health overall

> than those with more animal food in their diets. Of course eating

> lots of vegetables was recommended. Avoiding junk will do a lot of

> good, but avoiding junk PLUS getting all the things you need from

> eating the right foods will do more good.

~~~~~~~~~~

Really well said Jeanmarie.

-- Joan McPhee, MH, WT

mailto:mcpheej@... --

March 4, 2004

on 4/3/04 2:46 AM, Lorenzo wrote:

> Sorry I cannot resist!

> Pineapples have only been in the Hawaiian area since Mr. Dole planted them

> there.

> Next; Hawaiians eat a lot of fish, So do Alaskans. Pineapples and fish are

> both fantastic foods.

~~~~~~~~~~

Lorenzo, I think you got off track a little :-) The author's comment was

tongue-in-cheek. It did not really have to do with when pineapples were

introduced to Hawaii or whether pineapples and fish were good foods.

The point was that different ethnic groups metabolize foods in different

ways.

-- Joan McPhee, MH, WT

mailto:mcpheej@... --

March 4, 2004

> Don't recall them on the " approved " list of foods during induction.

>

> At any rate, the Atkins book's own carb counter lists around 9.5 per

> grams per onion. Assuming a maximum of 20 g of carbs during induction

> a couple of whole onions would throw the dieter off the programme.

>

Your objection is silly - no one eats a couple whole onions in a day - no

one I know of. On page 126 of Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, he provides a

list of " Other Vegetables " allowed during induction, - up to one cup per day

if you limit your regular salad greens to two cups for the day rather than

three. Onions are included. During ongoing weight loss - after first two

weeks - it is simply a matter of keeping track of the total number of carbs

you are consuming. I don't go heavy on onions in my foods, because they are

relatively high in carbs - but I often use a fourth of a large red onion in

my salads. And, as I said, the recipes in Dr. Atkins books include onions

as well. Not meaning to get too nit-picky, its just that there is SO much

disinformation out there on atkins, that i don't want to let such

misstatements slide. Joy

March 4, 2004

I’m with you, Joy, on preventing misstatements to get by. That’s why I push the

bit about the naturally saturated animal fats.

On eating two onions a day, I can put two or three fair sized onions on a nice

piece of liver, cook them together and eat the whole

thing. I also love sweet onions sautéed in butter. I can eat several at a

sitting.

I don’t often do those things because of the carbs in the onions, but I can.

-----Original Message-----

From: Sara Mandal-Joy [mailto:sarajoy@...]