Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 As Walford says, just enough to keep you fit and healthy. He describes his own regimen in BT120YD. on 2/22/2004 2:34 AM, ashton2442 at a.braithwaite@... wrote: > If exercise causes oxidative damage that is not countered by taking > anti-oxidants, then are the benefits that exercise is provides to > average life span significant? How much exercise is enough, and how > much is too much? > > Thanks, > Ashton > a.braithwaite@... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Hi Ashton: My tentative conclusion is that, since one wishes to be mobile in old age one does need to be strong enough, have sufficient endurance and flexibility to do whatever it is one wishes to do in old age. That means at least some exercise. But probably not a lot. Many studies do seem to show health benefits from exercise. But usually it seems to me the benefit is in postponing/reducing heart disease in people (a sizeable majority of the population) who are living an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle. Many approaches to improving health seem to be based on reducing the probability of heart disease. But one has to wonder whether there is any benefit in these approaches for those who, through diet/CRON say, have already pretty much solved that problem. At age 62 I occasionally jog a mile or a mile and a half. But I have no means of knowing whether that is anywhere near optimal exercise in either amount or type. The conventional wisdom, of course, is that you should be getting at least thirty minutes 'aerobic' exercise, at least three or four days a week. Maybe. Rodney. > If exercise causes oxidative damage that is not countered by taking > anti-oxidants, then are the benefits that exercise is provides to > average life span significant? How much exercise is enough, and how > much is too much? > > Thanks, > Ashton > a.braithwaite@a... > > > Rodney posted this a few weeks ago: > > " Longevity of exercising male rats: effect of an antioxidant > supplemented diet. > Holloszy JO > Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St. > Louis, MO 63110, USA > Experimental studies Mech Ageing Dev 1998 Feb 16;100(3):211-9 > > Food restriction increases maximal life span in rodents. Male rats > that exercise in voluntary running wheels do not have an increase in > maximal longevity despite a relative caloric deficit. In contrast, > sedentary rats that are food restricted so as to cause the same > caloric deficit have an extension of maximal longevity. It seemed > possible that exercise-induced oxidative stress might prevent a > maximum life span-extending effect of a caloric deficit to manifest > itself. This study was done to determine if antioxidants would allow > a maximal longevity-extending effect of exercise to manifest itself > in male rats. The antioxidant diet had no effect on longevity of the > runners (Antiox., 951 +/- 158 days versus control 937 + 171 days), or > of the sedentary controls (875 +/- 127 versus 858 +/- 152 days). As > in previous studies, wheel running modestly increased average > longevity (approximately 9%), but had no effect on maximal life span. > The finding that antioxidants had no effect on longevity of the wheel > runners supports the interpretation that the caloric deficit induced > by exercise in male rats does not have a life-extending effect that > is countered by oxidative tissue damage. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 CLIP*** ... " As in previous studies, wheel running modestly increased average longevity (approximately 9%), but had no effect on maximal life span. " ********* While always difficult to translate studies across species, 9% benefit with no downside appears significant to me. Increasing " average " longevity means that more of the group live longer. Don't ignore average benefits, even if you follow the best behavior for maximum life extension, it doesn't guarantee you will be in the fraction that enjoys the longest life. You still have to avoid dying from something else. We need to maximize our specific lifespan. I find exercise increases my QOL. Just like how much restriction is a personal decision, how much exercise depends on personal situation, goals, and perspectives. I believe Walford recommends keeping less than 15 miles (running) or equivalent per week. I try to routinely include weight training, aerobics, and sport. As I get older I have cut back some (mostly on competition). If you listen carefully your body will tell you when you're doing too much. For example monitoring your resting pulse in the morning will tell you if you're aerobically over training, but this is probably well beyond a level that is beneficial for max life span. JR -----Original Message----- From: ashton2442 [mailto:a.braithwaite@...] Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:35 AM Subject: [ ] How Much Exercise? If exercise causes oxidative damage that is not countered by taking anti-oxidants, then are the benefits that exercise is provides to average life span significant? How much exercise is enough, and how much is too much? Thanks, Ashton a.braithwaite@... Rodney posted this a few weeks ago: " Longevity of exercising male rats: effect of an antioxidant supplemented diet. Holloszy JO Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, MO 63110, USA Experimental studies Mech Ageing Dev 1998 Feb 16;100(3):211-9 Food restriction increases maximal life span in rodents. Male rats that exercise in voluntary running wheels do not have an increase in maximal longevity despite a relative caloric deficit. In contrast, sedentary rats that are food restricted so as to cause the same caloric deficit have an extension of maximal longevity. It seemed possible that exercise-induced oxidative stress might prevent a maximum life span-extending effect of a caloric deficit to manifest itself. This study was done to determine if antioxidants would allow a maximal longevity-extending effect of exercise to manifest itself in male rats. The antioxidant diet had no effect on longevity of the runners (Antiox., 951 +/- 158 days versus control 937 + 171 days), or of the sedentary controls (875 +/- 127 versus 858 +/- 152 days). As in previous studies, wheel running modestly increased average longevity (approximately 9%), but had no effect on maximal life span. The finding that antioxidants had no effect on longevity of the wheel runners supports the interpretation that the caloric deficit induced by exercise in male rats does not have a life-extending effect that is countered by oxidative tissue damage. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Totally agree 'bout exercise and improved QOL. I have a tough time imagining life without exercise. It never fails to make me feel better physically and, most importantly perhaps, emotionally. I'm an " exercise addict: " I can not remember a day upon which I have not " worked out " since med school surgery rotations 20 years ago during which I was runnning 'round the hospital night and day, so that was also kind of a workout, albeit probably not the healthiest type. >From: " john roberts " <johnhrob@...> >Reply- >< > >Subject: RE: [ ] How Much Exercise? >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:02:21 -0600 > >CLIP*** >.. " As in previous studies, wheel running modestly increased average >longevity (approximately 9%), but had no effect on maximal life span. " >********* > >While always difficult to translate studies across species, 9% benefit with >no downside appears significant to me. Increasing " average " longevity means >that more of the group live longer. > >Don't ignore average benefits, even if you follow the best behavior for >maximum life extension, it doesn't guarantee you will be in the fraction >that enjoys the longest life. You still have to avoid dying from something >else. We need to maximize our specific lifespan. > >I find exercise increases my QOL. Just like how much restriction is a >personal decision, how much exercise depends on personal situation, goals, >and perspectives. I believe Walford recommends keeping less than 15 miles >(running) or equivalent per week. > >I try to routinely include weight training, aerobics, and sport. As I get >older I have cut back some (mostly on competition). If you listen carefully >your body will tell you when you're doing too much. For example monitoring >your resting pulse in the morning will tell you if you're aerobically over >training, but this is probably well beyond a level that is beneficial for >max life span. > >JR > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ashton2442 [mailto:a.braithwaite@...] >Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:35 AM > >Subject: [ ] How Much Exercise? > > >If exercise causes oxidative damage that is not countered by taking >anti-oxidants, then are the benefits that exercise is provides to >average life span significant? How much exercise is enough, and how >much is too much? > >Thanks, >Ashton >a.braithwaite@... > > >Rodney posted this a few weeks ago: > > " Longevity of exercising male rats: effect of an antioxidant >supplemented diet. >Holloszy JO >Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St. >Louis, MO 63110, USA >Experimental studies Mech Ageing Dev 1998 Feb 16;100(3):211-9 > >Food restriction increases maximal life span in rodents. Male rats >that exercise in voluntary running wheels do not have an increase in >maximal longevity despite a relative caloric deficit. In contrast, >sedentary rats that are food restricted so as to cause the same >caloric deficit have an extension of maximal longevity. It seemed >possible that exercise-induced oxidative stress might prevent a >maximum life span-extending effect of a caloric deficit to manifest >itself. This study was done to determine if antioxidants would allow >a maximal longevity-extending effect of exercise to manifest itself >in male rats. The antioxidant diet had no effect on longevity of the >runners (Antiox., 951 +/- 158 days versus control 937 + 171 days), or >of the sedentary controls (875 +/- 127 versus 858 +/- 152 days). As >in previous studies, wheel running modestly increased average >longevity (approximately 9%), but had no effect on maximal life span. >The finding that antioxidants had no effect on longevity of the wheel >runners supports the interpretation that the caloric deficit induced >by exercise in male rats does not have a life-extending effect that >is countered by oxidative tissue damage. " > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 For optimal CR, probably 20 " 3 times a week cardio is optimal, as more would incur additional calories, but I would not omit a balanced resistance program. After age 25, one tends to lose muscle mass and strength progressively unless one does resistance training. A bit of stretching/flexibility exercise is also of benefit, at least I find it so. >From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...> >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Re: How Much Exercise? >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:39:34 -0000 > >Hi Ashton: > >My tentative conclusion is that, since one wishes to be mobile in old >age one does need to be strong enough, have sufficient endurance and >flexibility to do whatever it is one wishes to do in old age. That >means at least some exercise. But probably not a lot. > >Many studies do seem to show health benefits from exercise. But >usually it seems to me the benefit is in postponing/reducing heart >disease in people (a sizeable majority of the population) who are >living an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle. > >Many approaches to improving health seem to be based on reducing the >probability of heart disease. But one has to wonder whether there is >any benefit in these approaches for those who, through diet/CRON say, >have already pretty much solved that problem. > >At age 62 I occasionally jog a mile or a mile and a half. But I have >no means of knowing whether that is anywhere near optimal exercise in >either amount or type. The conventional wisdom, of course, is that >you should be getting at least thirty minutes 'aerobic' exercise, at >least three or four days a week. Maybe. > >Rodney. > > > > > If exercise causes oxidative damage that is not countered by taking > > anti-oxidants, then are the benefits that exercise is provides to > > average life span significant? How much exercise is enough, and >how > > much is too much? > > > > Thanks, > > Ashton > > a.braithwaite@a... > > > > > > Rodney posted this a few weeks ago: > > > > " Longevity of exercising male rats: effect of an antioxidant > > supplemented diet. > > Holloszy JO > > Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, >St. > > Louis, MO 63110, USA > > Experimental studies Mech Ageing Dev 1998 Feb 16;100(3):211-9 > > > > Food restriction increases maximal life span in rodents. Male rats > > that exercise in voluntary running wheels do not have an increase in > > maximal longevity despite a relative caloric deficit. In contrast, > > sedentary rats that are food restricted so as to cause the same > > caloric deficit have an extension of maximal longevity. It seemed > > possible that exercise-induced oxidative stress might prevent a > > maximum life span-extending effect of a caloric deficit to manifest > > itself. This study was done to determine if antioxidants would allow > > a maximal longevity-extending effect of exercise to manifest itself > > in male rats. The antioxidant diet had no effect on longevity of the > > runners (Antiox., 951 +/- 158 days versus control 937 + 171 days), >or > > of the sedentary controls (875 +/- 127 versus 858 +/- 152 days). As > > in previous studies, wheel running modestly increased average > > longevity (approximately 9%), but had no effect on maximal life >span. > > The finding that antioxidants had no effect on longevity of the >wheel > > runners supports the interpretation that the caloric deficit induced > > by exercise in male rats does not have a life-extending effect that > > is countered by oxidative tissue damage. " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Hi folks: Well I have a hypothesis: Many many serious scientific studies suggest that pursuit of some course or another (plenty of aerobic exercise, interval training, weight training; reduced fat intake, increased fat intake; weight reduction; taking nitroglycerin, statins; avoiding white bread, salt, MSG, sugar; taking injections of HDL; avoiding eggs; eating eggs; etc; etc.) will increase average lifespan - or 'rectangularize the curve'. I suggest it may eventually come to be realized that most of these 'interventions' are simply, in effect, a way of trying to counteract the symptoms of an inappropriate lifestyle. Those availing themselves of these interventions, a few of which are listed above, are doing the health equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. *** My hypothesis is that the vast majority of these interventions may eventually be seen to have no value for those well established in a responsible lifestyle, because they are NOT NECESSARY. *** The lipids values of people here who, after a few years pursuing CRON, have achieved their appropriate CRON weight, are astonishing. It seems pretty clear they have a very small likelihood of encountering the heart diseases that kill the majority of the regular population. And probably have much reduced susceptibility to cancers also. Dr. Walford isn't concerned so much with the deck chairs. He knows how to fix the leak. I know I am just as guilty as anyone, doubtless paying too much attention to the, perhaps irrelevant, little details. Better not to lose sight of which details are the big details. Rodney. --- In , " john roberts " <johnhrob@n...> wrote: > CLIP*** > .. " As in previous studies, wheel running modestly increased average > longevity (approximately 9%), but had no effect on maximal life span. " > ********* > > While always difficult to translate studies across species, 9% benefit with > no downside appears significant to me. Increasing " average " longevity means > that more of the group live longer. > > Don't ignore average benefits, even if you follow the best behavior for > maximum life extension, it doesn't guarantee you will be in the fraction > that enjoys the longest life. You still have to avoid dying from something > else. We need to maximize our specific lifespan. > > I find exercise increases my QOL. Just like how much restriction is a > personal decision, how much exercise depends on personal situation, goals, > and perspectives. I believe Walford recommends keeping less than 15 miles > (running) or equivalent per week. > > I try to routinely include weight training, aerobics, and sport. As I get > older I have cut back some (mostly on competition). If you listen carefully > your body will tell you when you're doing too much. For example monitoring > your resting pulse in the morning will tell you if you're aerobically over > training, but this is probably well beyond a level that is beneficial for > max life span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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