Re: tips.... rant... coffee

February 22, 2004

As is often the case, parsing out the finer points of nutrition is often

balancing one effect against another, from this link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & dopt=Ci

tation & list_uids=12067578

it appears that these same diterpenes are associated with chemopreventive

effects against cancer. Perhaps we should balance whether we are more at

risk of cancer or heart disease. As I have several relatives, including a

younger sister dead from cancer, I feel my personal choice is pretty simple.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Dowling [mailto:dowlic@...]

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:15 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] tips for health on talk show.... rant

I've read about the coffee issue before:

In the past, raised cholesterol levels associated with coffee consumption

have been linked to a greater risk of developing cardiovascular disease. The

coffee/cholesterol debate has been conducted for many years, however, the

substances in coffee responsible for the cholesterol raising effect have now

been identified as being the diterpenes cafestol and kahweol. The method of

brewing which has been shown consistently to release sufficient amounts of

these oils to have any significant effect on raising cholesterol levels is

the Scandinavian boiled method, where the coffee grounds are boiled together

with water and then served without filtering. The effect disappears

completely when the coffee is poured through a paper filter before serving.

Coffee, prepared by other popular European brewing methods, is known to

contain negligible amounts, if any, of these oils. Consumers' cholesterol

levels will not be significantly raised by normal coffee consumption, nor

will they be increasing the risk of developing cardiovascular disease.

>From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: [ ] tips for health on talk show.... rant

>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:51:51 -0500

>

>Sherm's Megamuffins are published on pg 308 of " Beyond " (sometimes I

>wonder

>if people read the book!)

>

>You're absolutely right about some of these tips . But others may be

>useful. I had never heard of the paper filter and see no harm in using it

>(just in case). And I had never heard about pumpkin before and would be

>curious (if anyone knows) why it would be beneficial (if true).

>

>Rants are Ok. But sarcasm doesn't help us get to the facts.

>

>on 2/19/2004 1:39 PM, john roberts at johnhrob@... wrote:

>

> > hmmm my comments (rant) below.

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]

> > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:03 PM

> > support group

> > Subject: [ ] tips for health on talk show

> >

> > On a popular talk show yesterday they had tips for longer life/better

> > health. These were given by the RealAge doctor (Dr Roizen - sp?) who

>runs

> > a RealAge websiteand by some other doctors on the show :

> >

> > 1) Use a paper filter when making coffee (even though there may be a

>metal

> > coffee filter in your machine) - it seems that the paper filters out

>some

> > bad stuff in coffee leaving only the beneficial ingredients.

> > ***********

> > I roast my own coffee from green beans and find this advice curious. I

>use

> > both metal (gold) and paper. They both have different characteristics.

>The

> > paper traps more sediment but holds the brew longer for a longer

> > extraction.... I'd like to see some real data on this. Most coffee

>research

> > I've read has not controlled for bean type, origination, or roast

>profile.

> > GIGO

> >

> > 2) eat the skins of fruits such as apples

> > ************

> > For about a year now, I've been peeling the skin off my one apple a day.

> > There have been reports of heavy pesticide use and significant

>accumulation

> > in the skin. I get plenty of fiber in the rest of my diet and I'm

>probably

> > discarding a few calories with the peel.

> >

> > 3) eating pumpkin is beneficial for the skin

> > *************

> > There is a small amount of pumpkin in my modest (50G) daily " Binging

> > Brownie "

> >

> > 4) Whole grains lower cholesterol and is associated with long life

> > ***********

> > Perhaps compared to simple sugars, I personally consume minimal amounts

>of

> > grain getting my fiber elsewhere.

> >

> > 5) spinach is among the healthiest of veggies and is good for the eyes

> > ****

> > Gee... I thought that was carrots?

> >

> > 6) 1/2 aspirin a day keeps the doctor away (162.5 mg)

> > ********

> > Perhaps for SAD eaters who have poor fat balance, and relatively high

>level

> > of inflammation. If you already have good heart health and thin blood,

> > thinning it further could be problematic.

> >

> > 7) eat a bit of healthy fat before dinner for greater satiety

> > *******

> > Huh?, eat healthy fat, healthy protein, and healthy carbohydrates for

> > dinner.

> >

> > Sorry for the rant.....End

> >

> > JR

> >

> > PS to answer the question yesterday about what recipes I use Guar in,

>both

> > are baked goods, Sherm's " Binging Brownie " , and " Mega Muffin " . These

>recipes

> > are published on the web but I'll provide links if you can't find them.

>

February 22, 2004

Hi -

Thanks for the link and info. Unfortuanately, such long links often get

broken in transcription from the original post. It could help those of us

wishing to check out such links if you could use services such as SnipURL:

http://snipurl.com/

to shorten the links and make them more easily usable.

>From: " john roberts " <johnhrob@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: RE: [ ] tips.... rant... coffee

>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:19:36 -0600

>

>As is often the case, parsing out the finer points of nutrition is often

>balancing one effect against another, from this link:

>

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & dopt=Ci

>tation & list_uids=12067578

>

>it appears that these same diterpenes are associated with chemopreventive

>effects against cancer. Perhaps we should balance whether we are more at

>risk of cancer or heart disease. As I have several relatives, including a

>younger sister dead from cancer, I feel my personal choice is pretty

>simple.

>

>JR

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Dowling [mailto:dowlic@...]

>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:15 PM

>

>Subject: Re: [ ] tips for health on talk show.... rant

>

>I've read about the coffee issue before:

>

>In the past, raised cholesterol levels associated with coffee consumption

>have been linked to a greater risk of developing cardiovascular disease.

>The

>coffee/cholesterol debate has been conducted for many years, however, the

>substances in coffee responsible for the cholesterol raising effect have

>now

>been identified as being the diterpenes cafestol and kahweol. The method of

>brewing which has been shown consistently to release sufficient amounts of

>these oils to have any significant effect on raising cholesterol levels is

>the Scandinavian boiled method, where the coffee grounds are boiled

>together

>with water and then served without filtering. The effect disappears

>completely when the coffee is poured through a paper filter before serving.

>

>Coffee, prepared by other popular European brewing methods, is known to

>contain negligible amounts, if any, of these oils. Consumers' cholesterol

>levels will not be significantly raised by normal coffee consumption, nor

>will they be increasing the risk of developing cardiovascular disease.

>

> >From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

> >Reply-

> >< >

> >Subject: Re: [ ] tips for health on talk show.... rant

> >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:51:51 -0500

> >

> >Sherm's Megamuffins are published on pg 308 of " Beyond " (sometimes I

> >wonder

> >if people read the book!)

> >

> >You're absolutely right about some of these tips . But others may be

> >useful. I had never heard of the paper filter and see no harm in using

>it

> >(just in case). And I had never heard about pumpkin before and would be

> >curious (if anyone knows) why it would be beneficial (if true).

> >

> >Rants are Ok. But sarcasm doesn't help us get to the facts.

> >

> >on 2/19/2004 1:39 PM, john roberts at johnhrob@... wrote:

> >

> > > hmmm my comments (rant) below.

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]

> > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:03 PM

> > > support group

> > > Subject: [ ] tips for health on talk show

> > >

> > > On a popular talk show yesterday they had tips for longer life/better

> > > health. These were given by the RealAge doctor (Dr Roizen - sp?) who

> >runs

> > > a RealAge websiteand by some other doctors on the show :

> > >

> > > 1) Use a paper filter when making coffee (even though there may be a

> >metal

> > > coffee filter in your machine) - it seems that the paper filters out

> >some

> > > bad stuff in coffee leaving only the beneficial ingredients.

> > > ***********

> > > I roast my own coffee from green beans and find this advice curious. I

> >use

> > > both metal (gold) and paper. They both have different characteristics.

> >The

> > > paper traps more sediment but holds the brew longer for a longer

> > > extraction.... I'd like to see some real data on this. Most coffee

> >research

> > > I've read has not controlled for bean type, origination, or roast

> >profile.

> > > GIGO

> > >

> > > 2) eat the skins of fruits such as apples

> > > ************

> > > For about a year now, I've been peeling the skin off my one apple a

>day.

> > > There have been reports of heavy pesticide use and significant

> >accumulation

> > > in the skin. I get plenty of fiber in the rest of my diet and I'm

> >probably

> > > discarding a few calories with the peel.

> > >

> > > 3) eating pumpkin is beneficial for the skin

> > > *************

> > > There is a small amount of pumpkin in my modest (50G) daily " Binging

> > > Brownie "

> > >

> > > 4) Whole grains lower cholesterol and is associated with long life

> > > ***********

> > > Perhaps compared to simple sugars, I personally consume minimal

>amounts

> >of

> > > grain getting my fiber elsewhere.

> > >

> > > 5) spinach is among the healthiest of veggies and is good for the eyes

> > > ****

> > > Gee... I thought that was carrots?

> > >

> > > 6) 1/2 aspirin a day keeps the doctor away (162.5 mg)

> > > ********

> > > Perhaps for SAD eaters who have poor fat balance, and relatively high

> >level

> > > of inflammation. If you already have good heart health and thin blood,

> > > thinning it further could be problematic.

> > >

> > > 7) eat a bit of healthy fat before dinner for greater satiety

> > > *******

> > > Huh?, eat healthy fat, healthy protein, and healthy carbohydrates for

> > > dinner.

> > >

> > > Sorry for the rant.....End

> > >

> > > JR

> > >

> > > PS to answer the question yesterday about what recipes I use Guar in,

> >both

> > > are baked goods, Sherm's " Binging Brownie " , and " Mega Muffin " . These

> >recipes

> > > are published on the web but I'll provide links if you can't find

>them.

> >

>

February 22, 2004

Speaking of coffee, I just tried brewing it in my electric perk but with a

paper filter inserted while brewing. It just went on and on and never

stopped so I finally pulled the plug. Is it just pouring the already

perked coffee through the paper filter, that does the trick? Or what?

on 2/22/2004 1:19 PM, chris wrote

> The method of

> brewing which has been shown consistently to release sufficient amounts of

> these oils to have any significant effect on raising cholesterol levels is

> the Scandinavian boiled method, where the coffee grounds are boiled together

> with water and then served without filtering. The effect disappears

> completely when the coffee is poured through a paper filter before serving.

February 22, 2004

Dunno-

I usually use either French Press (which I prefer) or drip filter. I don't

know much 'bout percolators.

>From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: [ ] tips.... rant... coffee

>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:12:19 -0500

>

>Speaking of coffee, I just tried brewing it in my electric perk but with a

>paper filter inserted while brewing. It just went on and on and never

>stopped so I finally pulled the plug. Is it just pouring the already

>perked coffee through the paper filter, that does the trick? Or what?

>

>on 2/22/2004 1:19 PM, chris wrote

> > The method of

> > brewing which has been shown consistently to release sufficient amounts

>of

> > these oils to have any significant effect on raising cholesterol levels

>is

> > the Scandinavian boiled method, where the coffee grounds are boiled

>together

> > with water and then served without filtering. The effect disappears

> > completely when the coffee is poured through a paper filter before

>serving.

>

February 22, 2004

Hi :

Is 'french press' the one where you use a special glass and

contraption and push down a metal filter to remove the sediment?

Rodney.

> Dunno-

>

> I usually use either French Press (which I prefer) or drip filter.

I don't

> know much 'bout percolators.

>

> >From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@e...>

> >Reply-

> >< >

> >Subject: Re: [ ] tips.... rant... coffee

> >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:12:19 -0500

> >

> >Speaking of coffee, I just tried brewing it in my electric perk

but with a

> >paper filter inserted while brewing. It just went on and on and

never

> >stopped so I finally pulled the plug. Is it just pouring the

already

> >perked coffee through the paper filter, that does the trick? Or

what?

> >

> >on 2/22/2004 1:19 PM, chris wrote

> > > The method of

> > > brewing which has been shown consistently to release sufficient

amounts

> >of

> > > these oils to have any significant effect on raising

cholesterol levels

> >is

> > > the Scandinavian boiled method, where the coffee grounds are

boiled

> >together

> > > with water and then served without filtering. The effect

disappears

> > > completely when the coffee is poured through a paper filter

before

> >serving.

> >

February 22, 2004

Yup. In my opinion, coffee brewed this way (which is really quite quick and

easy), tastes much better than drip brew. Some might argue for other

methods (vacuum), but I've not tried that one.

>From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] Re: tips.... rant... coffee

>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:25:09 -0000

>

>Hi :

>

>Is 'french press' the one where you use a special glass and

>contraption and push down a metal filter to remove the sediment?

>

>Rodney.

>

> > Dunno-

> >

> > I usually use either French Press (which I prefer) or drip filter.

>I don't

> > know much 'bout percolators.

> >

> > >From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@e...>

> > >Reply-

> > >< >

> > >Subject: Re: [ ] tips.... rant... coffee

> > >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:12:19 -0500

> > >

> > >Speaking of coffee, I just tried brewing it in my electric perk

>but with a

> > >paper filter inserted while brewing. It just went on and on and

>never

> > >stopped so I finally pulled the plug. Is it just pouring the

>already

> > >perked coffee through the paper filter, that does the trick? Or

>what?

> > >

> > >on 2/22/2004 1:19 PM, chris wrote

> > > > The method of

> > > > brewing which has been shown consistently to release sufficient

>amounts

> > >of

> > > > these oils to have any significant effect on raising

>cholesterol levels

> > >is

> > > > the Scandinavian boiled method, where the coffee grounds are

>boiled

> > >together

> > > > with water and then served without filtering. The effect

>disappears

> > > > completely when the coffee is poured through a paper filter

>before

> > >serving.

> > >

>

February 23, 2004

Yes, it appears that pouring already percolated coffee through a paper

filter should reduce diterpenes. These may be already be somewhat attenuated

in percolated coffee since some of the coffee will get re-filtered due to

multiple passes through the brew basket.

Most of the other brewing methods will be more similar in taste to each

other than different when compared to percolated due to the coffee never

exceeding water's boiling temperature. The water is typically boiled prior

to infusion in drip, pour-over, (French) press, and vacuum brewing.

Typically only percolated and some drip machines with over-active warming

elements after brewing are capable of over heating the coffee. If you have

ever tasted the last fraction of a cup that sat on a warming plate for too

many hours you will notice chemical changes far beyond that of normal

extraction.

Besides that there are pretty large differences caused by the type and

quality of the bean, profile of roast, and freshness. There will be smaller

differences related to brew time/temperature, water hardness, grind

coarseness, and of course purity of water.

Perhaps more information than you can use, the flavor in coffee beans peak

between 1 and 3 days after roasting. The flavor degrades rapidly beginning

immediately upon grinding.

Regarding health issues associated with coffee consumption, even the more

obvious can be double edged. While caffeine, long a villain for being an

addictive stimulant, and capable of interfering with sleep. I have also seen

reports that caffeine improves insulin sensitivity thus being protective

against diabetes. The evil diterpenes, associated with increasing

cholesterol, are also apparently protective against some cancers. While

CRONies should at lower risk from all these diseases than our AL eating

contempories, we are still likely to die of something.

I found that since I started roasting my own beans, I was drinking so much

that it was interfering with my sleep. I have since changed my afternoon pot

to decaf (Swiss water process) and I now sleep fine again.

FWIW I personally " pour-over " (similar to drip) and prefer a metal filter

over paper for taste reasons, but I actually re-filter the last cup of every

pot through paper to avoid the sediment.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]

Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:12 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] tips.... rant... coffee

Speaking of coffee, I just tried brewing it in my electric perk but with a

paper filter inserted while brewing. It just went on and on and never

stopped so I finally pulled the plug. Is it just pouring the already

perked coffee through the paper filter, that does the trick? Or what?

on 2/22/2004 1:19 PM, chris wrote

> The method of

> brewing which has been shown consistently to release sufficient amounts of

> these oils to have any significant effect on raising cholesterol levels is

> the Scandinavian boiled method, where the coffee grounds are boiled

together

> with water and then served without filtering. The effect disappears

> completely when the coffee is poured through a paper filter before

serving.

February 23, 2004

>From: " john roberts " <johnhrob@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: RE: [ ] tips.... rant... coffee

>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:10:25 -0600

>

>>

>Regarding health issues associated with coffee consumption, even the more

>obvious can be double edged. While caffeine, long a villain for being an

>addictive stimulant, and capable of interfering with sleep. I have also

>seen

>reports that caffeine improves insulin sensitivity thus being protective

>against diabetes. The evil diterpenes, associated with increasing

>cholesterol, are also apparently protective against some cancers. While

>CRONies should at lower risk from all these diseases than our AL eating

>contempories, we are still likely to die of something.

>

Thanks for all your info on coffee, ! You forgot to mention the

association of coffee drinking with lower rates of Parkinson's disease. Not

sure if this is caffeine related.

February 23, 2004

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