Re: 4 years on CRON

March 13, 2004

I started Mar 2000 also, and dropped from 206 to 172#. In fact it was so easy, once I found the right diet, that at 172# I got a little worried and stopped. My previous high was 233#, so various methods got me down 27# from 1994 to 2000. I usually keep track carefully of calories and other nutrients daily, although by now, I can pretty well "eyeball" the weight and calories of everything I will put in my mouth. For several years I've bounced between 175 and 185# for one reason or another, and now I'm back down to 178#. I sorta think that caloric intake is more important than my absolute weight since I don't want to give up too much muscle mass. I can still lift my 215# son.

That said, I determined this year to keep my winter weight increase down, and currently, am at 178#. Yesterday, it was warm and I dug at my garden about 8 by 20 feet, getting ready for the okra and basil sprouts. At 178#, I can easily turn over the clay soil and that's one thing I could not do at age 20 at 145#. I want to get to about 170# and get a blood test. 170# will shock my dr bad enough without trying lower. 170# is my 35yo weight. After the blood test I may shoot for 165# to see if my BP will get lower.

I found a combination of diets that will control my weight, not just low fat, not just vegetarian, but ones I can switch back and forth and still be 1800 kcals. The only rigidized thing is low sodium.

I weigh daily, first thing after rising, and take my blood pressure before rising. The low fat lacto vegetarian diet produces the lowest BP. The "some meat" diet with higher fat raises it about 10 mmHg but still acceptable. The mainest thing is how I feel on the diet, my BP, and to avoid the "characteristic" CR complaints of hunger, insomnia, osteoporosis, etc. I think maybe there's a compromise there.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

support group

Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:34 AM

Subject: [ ] 4 years on CRON

Hi folks: this March marks my 4 year CRON anniversary, that is I started onCRON four years ago. I have to say it's gotten easier and easier, althoughI am not as "strict" about some things as I was when I started. And I thinkit's not possible (at least for me) to stay on any program for the rest ofmy life, if my life had to revolve around it.I used to count my calories daily and was very careful about what I ate. Inow don't worry about the occasional lapse, or eating out quite so much(maybe because experience has shown me that I'll get right back on theprogram).I am one of those CRONIES who weighs herself daily, although it's caloriesnot pounds that count. I use the scale as a gauge to see if I've beeneating too much. If my weight creeps up a pound or two, I cut back.I am probably one of the "fatter" CRONIES. I maintain a weight of about118-120 pounds at a height of 5'4". But I'm also one on the older CRONIESand I believe Walford is right when he says that us older CRONIES shouldn'tlose too much weight. I came down to my present weight from a startingweight of about 138 pounds.I invite other veterans to tell their stories to our newbies.

March 13, 2004

I read Walford's " The 120 Year Diet " in the late 1980's and, for a time,

followed its regime strictly. Even before I had read Walford's book, I had

undergone periods of fasting and undereating. As a sophomore in college in

the early 1980s, I felt flabby and out of shape after a term of intense

study, and decide to radically change my approach to food and exercise. I

started running and fasting, and eating nothing a day but a big green salad

and tea for my one daily meal for a time.

Since those days, I've gone through many different types of " diet. " The " Fit

for Life, " " The Zone, " Atkins', etc. and I've gone in and out of strict

calorie control. I usually gravitate towards a whole food, fruit and

vegetable based diet, heavy on leafy greens and berries. That's what I'm

back to now.

My weight in college as a flabby sophomore was probably about 160 lbs. My

weight since that time has varied between 145 t0 125 lbs. Current weight is

about 129-130 lbs. with a BMI of about 19.2

>From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

>Reply-

>support group < >

>Subject: [ ] 4 years on CRON

>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:34:13 -0500

>

>Hi folks: this March marks my 4 year CRON anniversary, that is I started

>on

>CRON four years ago. I have to say it's gotten easier and easier, although

>I am not as " strict " about some things as I was when I started. And I

>think

>it's not possible (at least for me) to stay on any program for the rest of

>my life, if my life had to revolve around it.

>

>I used to count my calories daily and was very careful about what I ate. I

>now don't worry about the occasional lapse, or eating out quite so much

>(maybe because experience has shown me that I'll get right back on the

>program).

>

>I am one of those CRONIES who weighs herself daily, although it's calories

>not pounds that count. I use the scale as a gauge to see if I've been

>eating too much. If my weight creeps up a pound or two, I cut back.

>

>I am probably one of the " fatter " CRONIES. I maintain a weight of about

>118-120 pounds at a height of 5'4 " . But I'm also one on the older CRONIES

>and I believe Walford is right when he says that us older CRONIES shouldn't

>lose too much weight. I came down to my present weight from a starting

>weight of about 138 pounds.

>

>I invite other veterans to tell their stories to our newbies.

>

March 13, 2004

: how much protein (approx) do you eat? Are you ever hungry ?

If so what do you do for hunger abatement? (If you've answered these

questions before, pls forgive another query).

on 3/13/2004 4:31 PM, Dowling at dowlic@... wrote:

> I usually gravitate towards a whole food, fruit and

> vegetable based diet, heavy on leafy greens and berries. That's what I'm

> back to now.

March 14, 2004

Protein: for years and years I ate almost none (at least, in a concentrated

form). Then came the Zone, and I added whey, soy, vegetable proteins, and

fish. Then came Atkins, and I added omega-3 enriched eggs, some occasional

turkey, red meat (free range, natural, grass fed), etc. Lately, I still

have a fair bit of whey, vegetable protein, including some soy, and fairly

regular fish (mostly herring and occasional salmon, especially when I come

across Alaskan salmon.) I also usually have about 15 grams of protein per

meal, and I eat from 2 to 4 meals a day, depending upon my schedule, hunger,

activity, sleep, etc.

If I'm hungry, I usually eat something healthy (salad with some protein;

smoothie with fruit (emphasizing berries including wolfberries,

strawberries, blueberries, etc.). I find my hunger is quite unpredictable.

Some days I have almost none. Other days I feel ravenous!

>From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: [ ] 4 years on CRON

>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:33:56 -0500

>

>: how much protein (approx) do you eat? Are you ever hungry ?

>If so what do you do for hunger abatement? (If you've answered these

>questions before, pls forgive another query).

>

>on 3/13/2004 4:31 PM, Dowling at dowlic@... wrote:

>

> > I usually gravitate towards a whole food, fruit and

> > vegetable based diet, heavy on leafy greens and berries. That's what I'm

> > back to now.

>

March 14, 2004

Hi All,

The below summarizes most of my history on CRAN.

Cheers, Al Pater.

Some notes on the weight loss, diet and their health effects for Alan

Pater.

March, 1990.

A. Weight loss

My weight from about 18 years age to 24: I was about 153 pounds and

increased 18 or 20 pounds (in morning, naked) as I did exercises such

as push-ups and sit-ups. I stopped exercises and lost all that

weight over six weeks [in 1971-1972]. I then maintained this

approximate weight until moving to Newfoundland [in Jan., 1985]. I

gained about [3] pounds to 158-159 pounds (or [155] naked in the

morning) in May, 1987. After changing to low fat I lost 8-10 pounds

over 6-8 weeks which I kept from going lower with extra sugar and

starches. Then between June 1, 1989 to Sept 30 I lost 15 pounds (by

reducing sugars and calories) to 125 pounds naked in the morning.

B. Diet

My diet after suppertime for the last 25 years has been light

(especially less fat) to avoid sleeplessness or discomfort during

sleep. When I changed to low fat diet in May 1987 I reduced fats,

especially saturated fats and increased sugar and starch and

moderately reduced meats. I aimed for 10-15% fat and about 15-20%

protein. When I changed to low calorie diet I increased protein,

with beans and meat and also eliminated caffeine and tea and reduced,

to very low levels, alcohol. I supplemented vitamins and minerals,

take a great deal of vegetables (cooked and salad), sugar substitutes

moderately, garlic, onion hot pepper and vinegar moderately and also

quite a lot of water to avoid kidney stones with all the vegetables I

eat.

C. Health changes since altering diet

There was little change with going to low fat. I lost fat tissues

mainly. I was more sleepy in the afternoon after my heavily sugar-

rich lunch.

After my change to low calorie diet significant change occurred:

1.) I lost a lot of skeletal muscle. I walk a little " wobbly " .

I have maintained approximately the same amount of total exercise as

before.

2.) My pulse rate has dropped from about 70 per minute to 45-60

(lower in the PM, when I stop eating for the evening especially).

3.) Internal body temperature dropped a little while losing

weight but now has stabilized at about 97 degrees F that it was

before.

4.) I feel colder than before, so I wear much warmer clothing and

use more blankets. The cold feeling is accentuated in the PM.

5.) I sleep 1-2 hours less I fall to sleep easily at night and

urinate more and more often during the night. I feel fine when I get

up and if I have had less sleep I nap 2-10 minutes, usually about 3-5

PM.

6.) Tension, anxiety and stress are much lower. I need no

underarm deodorant, except when I get too hot. I used to get lower

backaches and shoulder-upper back pain, especially during

uncontrolled tension periods and if not careful lifting and bending

but all these are insignificant now.

7.) My energy levels are higher in the early day and lower after

the last meal. I developed " lazy " habits such as swinging only one

arm when I walk at a certain pace.

8.) Mental capabilities seem better early in the day but worse in

the afternoon and especially the evening. It is difficult to assess

the significance, if any, of this health aspect. It could be, for

example that my emphasis or interests change. I am moving to

positions of more " responsibility and less " nitty gritty " things but

it is a difficult transition.

D Future plans.

I plan to re-evaluate my weight plans after 1 year on the diet (June

1). My goal had been to lose 17.5% of what I was at 20-30 years

(when not doing exercises). I may stay the same or add up to 10

pounds, depending on how I feel at that time about it. When I get to

about 60 years old I plan to gain about 5 pounds per decade for 2

consecutive decades.

My attitude at the moment is that the tests which have been

done might help to decide if significant changes other than the blood

glucose and thyroid hormones occur. But I have largely adjusted to

the physiological changes and probably will stick with the diet, but

try to be open-minded about it and re-evaluate it every year or so.

I feel it is important to maintain weight very close to my goal,

whatever I decide.

March 13, 2004.

Some updated notes on the weight loss, diet and their health effects

for Alan Pater.

My previous notes of March, 1990 are used to formulate the basis of

this update.

A. Weight loss

My weight from my March 13, 1990 125 pounds is now 100 pounds

[always taken naked in the morning upon rising and voiding my bladder

and sometimes from my bowels (but I have found that, when I have a

bowel movement, my weight measures 1-2 pounds higher, probably due to

the water that has not yet been removed from the colon contents that

replace that which is voided)]. However, then ~ I drifted down from

my March, 1990 weight of 125 pounds to 115 pounds when my wife passed

away in Nov. 1994. Again, I drifted lower in weight to 190 pounds in

February, 1998 and developed left lung pneumonia followed 3 months

later with a right lung recurrence, which prompted an ~ 45 pounds of

weight gain, going ad lib Pritikin dieting, over ~ 6 months. I then

lost weight and tried to settle at 125 pounds and then 115 pounds,

but over ~ 8 months drifted down to 100 pounds in Apr., 1999. Then,

I much more slowly returned to ~ 197 pounds. I developed bronchitis

at this point, went to ~ 103 pounds and then down again to ~ 197

pounds over ~ 5 months in Nov., 2002. Again, I lost weight to ~ 190

pounds in Mar. 2003, developed right lung pneumonia, and that

resulted in a low-glucose crisis.

B. Diet

My diet is for the last ~ 4 years has been modestly-low-fat,

with 150>125>70 g/day fatty fish fat (capelin in Newfoundland and

pilchards ~ herring in BC), 6 g/day walnut, almonds and hazelnuts fat

and 5 g/day flaxseeds fat. My C-P-F ratio is: 63-20-17. I eat 70

fatty fish/day and ~ 100 ml = 0.4 cup skim milk/day. I was vegan

preceding my first case of pneumonia. I took 2 drinks of alcohol/day

for ~ 2001-2003, and then 1 drink since I terminated consumption a

month ago. In BC, my vegetable consumption have greatly increased at

the expense of popcorn, which I now no longer have been taking for

the last week.

C. Health changes

1) These are mostly outlined above.

2) The hip fracture I had later in last year still makes

sleeping on my sides somewhat uncomfortable and abbreviated.

Previously, I have had a neck fracture many years pre-CR, and after

initiating CR 3 rib fractures, another hip fracture and a broken arm.

3) My blood immune cells are extremely low, my testosterone has

increased somewhat to ~ 40% of the low in the normal reference

range. My thyroid T3 hormone is low and TSH is high, averaging ~

twice the high in the normal reference range. My sodium chloride

level is low and serum osmolarity is low.

4) My sleep is longer than it has been since the first couple of

years on CR.

D Future plans.

Increase my weight from my current 100 pounds (with ~ 3

pounds fluid in my left leg, mainly between my knee and ankle) to ~

110 pounds. Also, maintain my approximate diet.

> Hi folks: this March marks my 4 year CRON anniversary, that is I

started on

> CRON four years ago. I have to say it's gotten easier and easier,

although

> I am not as " strict " about some things as I was when I started.

And I think

> it's not possible (at least for me) to stay on any program for the

rest of

> my life, if my life had to revolve around it.

>

> I used to count my calories daily and was very careful about what I

ate. I

> now don't worry about the occasional lapse, or eating out quite so

much

> (maybe because experience has shown me that I'll get right back on

the

> program).

>

> I am one of those CRONIES who weighs herself daily, although it's

calories

> not pounds that count. I use the scale as a gauge to see if I've

been

> eating too much. If my weight creeps up a pound or two, I cut back.

>

> I am probably one of the " fatter " CRONIES. I maintain a weight of

about

> 118-120 pounds at a height of 5'4 " . But I'm also one on the older

CRONIES

> and I believe Walford is right when he says that us older CRONIES

shouldn't

> lose too much weight. I came down to my present weight from a

starting

> weight of about 138 pounds.

>

> I invite other veterans to tell their stories to our newbies.

March 14, 2004

Al: thanks for your detailed notes on your experiences. And for your frank

discussion on what can sometimes go wrong if one slips down the slippery

slope of anorexia (which you've discussed many times before).

Moderation folks.

on 3/13/2004 8:11 PM, old542000 at apater@... wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> The below summarizes most of my history on CRAN.

>

> Cheers, Al Pater.

>

> Some notes on the weight loss, diet and their health effects for Alan

> Pater.

>

> March, 1990.

>

> A. Weight loss

> My weight from about 18 years age to 24: I was about 153 pounds and

> increased 18 or 20 pounds (in morning, naked) as I did exercises such

> as push-ups and sit-ups. I stopped exercises and lost all that

> weight over six weeks [in 1971-1972]. I then maintained this

> approximate weight until moving to Newfoundland [in Jan., 1985]. I

> gained about [3] pounds to 158-159 pounds (or [155] naked in the

> morning) in May, 1987. After changing to low fat I lost 8-10 pounds

> over 6-8 weeks which I kept from going lower with extra sugar and

> starches. Then between June 1, 1989 to Sept 30 I lost 15 pounds (by

> reducing sugars and calories) to 125 pounds naked in the morning.

>

> B. Diet

> My diet after suppertime for the last 25 years has been light

> (especially less fat) to avoid sleeplessness or discomfort during

> sleep. When I changed to low fat diet in May 1987 I reduced fats,

> especially saturated fats and increased sugar and starch and

> moderately reduced meats. I aimed for 10-15% fat and about 15-20%

> protein. When I changed to low calorie diet I increased protein,

> with beans and meat and also eliminated caffeine and tea and reduced,

> to very low levels, alcohol. I supplemented vitamins and minerals,

> take a great deal of vegetables (cooked and salad), sugar substitutes

> moderately, garlic, onion hot pepper and vinegar moderately and also

> quite a lot of water to avoid kidney stones with all the vegetables I

> eat.

>

> C. Health changes since altering diet

> There was little change with going to low fat. I lost fat tissues

> mainly. I was more sleepy in the afternoon after my heavily sugar-

> rich lunch.

> After my change to low calorie diet significant change occurred:

> 1.) I lost a lot of skeletal muscle. I walk a little " wobbly " .

> I have maintained approximately the same amount of total exercise as

> before.

> 2.) My pulse rate has dropped from about 70 per minute to 45-60

> (lower in the PM, when I stop eating for the evening especially).

> 3.) Internal body temperature dropped a little while losing

> weight but now has stabilized at about 97 degrees F that it was

> before.

> 4.) I feel colder than before, so I wear much warmer clothing and

> use more blankets. The cold feeling is accentuated in the PM.

> 5.) I sleep 1-2 hours less I fall to sleep easily at night and

> urinate more and more often during the night. I feel fine when I get

> up and if I have had less sleep I nap 2-10 minutes, usually about 3-5

> PM.

> 6.) Tension, anxiety and stress are much lower. I need no

> underarm deodorant, except when I get too hot. I used to get lower

> backaches and shoulder-upper back pain, especially during

> uncontrolled tension periods and if not careful lifting and bending

> but all these are insignificant now.

> 7.) My energy levels are higher in the early day and lower after

> the last meal. I developed " lazy " habits such as swinging only one

> arm when I walk at a certain pace.

> 8.) Mental capabilities seem better early in the day but worse in

> the afternoon and especially the evening. It is difficult to assess

> the significance, if any, of this health aspect. It could be, for

> example that my emphasis or interests change. I am moving to

> positions of more " responsibility and less " nitty gritty " things but

> it is a difficult transition.

>

> D Future plans.

> I plan to re-evaluate my weight plans after 1 year on the diet (June

> 1). My goal had been to lose 17.5% of what I was at 20-30 years

> (when not doing exercises). I may stay the same or add up to 10

> pounds, depending on how I feel at that time about it. When I get to

> about 60 years old I plan to gain about 5 pounds per decade for 2

> consecutive decades.

> My attitude at the moment is that the tests which have been

> done might help to decide if significant changes other than the blood

> glucose and thyroid hormones occur. But I have largely adjusted to

> the physiological changes and probably will stick with the diet, but

> try to be open-minded about it and re-evaluate it every year or so.

> I feel it is important to maintain weight very close to my goal,

> whatever I decide.

>

> March 13, 2004.

> Some updated notes on the weight loss, diet and their health effects

> for Alan Pater.

>

> My previous notes of March, 1990 are used to formulate the basis of

> this update.

>

> A. Weight loss

> My weight from my March 13, 1990 125 pounds is now 100 pounds

> [always taken naked in the morning upon rising and voiding my bladder

> and sometimes from my bowels (but I have found that, when I have a

> bowel movement, my weight measures 1-2 pounds higher, probably due to

> the water that has not yet been removed from the colon contents that

> replace that which is voided)]. However, then ~ I drifted down from

> my March, 1990 weight of 125 pounds to 115 pounds when my wife passed

> away in Nov. 1994. Again, I drifted lower in weight to 190 pounds in

> February, 1998 and developed left lung pneumonia followed 3 months

> later with a right lung recurrence, which prompted an ~ 45 pounds of

> weight gain, going ad lib Pritikin dieting, over ~ 6 months. I then

> lost weight and tried to settle at 125 pounds and then 115 pounds,

> but over ~ 8 months drifted down to 100 pounds in Apr., 1999. Then,

> I much more slowly returned to ~ 197 pounds. I developed bronchitis

> at this point, went to ~ 103 pounds and then down again to ~ 197

> pounds over ~ 5 months in Nov., 2002. Again, I lost weight to ~ 190

> pounds in Mar. 2003, developed right lung pneumonia, and that

> resulted in a low-glucose crisis.

>

> B. Diet

> My diet is for the last ~ 4 years has been modestly-low-fat,

> with 150>125>70 g/day fatty fish fat (capelin in Newfoundland and

> pilchards ~ herring in BC), 6 g/day walnut, almonds and hazelnuts fat

> and 5 g/day flaxseeds fat. My C-P-F ratio is: 63-20-17. I eat 70

> fatty fish/day and ~ 100 ml = 0.4 cup skim milk/day. I was vegan

> preceding my first case of pneumonia. I took 2 drinks of alcohol/day

> for ~ 2001-2003, and then 1 drink since I terminated consumption a

> month ago. In BC, my vegetable consumption have greatly increased at

> the expense of popcorn, which I now no longer have been taking for

> the last week.

>

> C. Health changes

> 1) These are mostly outlined above.

> 2) The hip fracture I had later in last year still makes

> sleeping on my sides somewhat uncomfortable and abbreviated.

> Previously, I have had a neck fracture many years pre-CR, and after

> initiating CR 3 rib fractures, another hip fracture and a broken arm.

> 3) My blood immune cells are extremely low, my testosterone has

> increased somewhat to ~ 40% of the low in the normal reference

> range. My thyroid T3 hormone is low and TSH is high, averaging ~

> twice the high in the normal reference range. My sodium chloride

> level is low and serum osmolarity is low.

> 4) My sleep is longer than it has been since the first couple of

> years on CR.

>

> D Future plans.

> Increase my weight from my current 100 pounds (with ~ 3

> pounds fluid in my left leg, mainly between my knee and ankle) to ~

> 110 pounds. Also, maintain my approximate diet.

>

>> Hi folks: this March marks my 4 year CRON anniversary, that is I

> started on

>> CRON four years ago. I have to say it's gotten easier and easier,

> although

>> I am not as " strict " about some things as I was when I started.

> And I think

>> it's not possible (at least for me) to stay on any program for the

> rest of

>> my life, if my life had to revolve around it.

>>

>> I used to count my calories daily and was very careful about what I

> ate. I

>> now don't worry about the occasional lapse, or eating out quite so

> much

>> (maybe because experience has shown me that I'll get right back on

> the

>> program).

>>

>> I am one of those CRONIES who weighs herself daily, although it's

> calories

>> not pounds that count. I use the scale as a gauge to see if I've

> been

>> eating too much. If my weight creeps up a pound or two, I cut back.

>>

>> I am probably one of the " fatter " CRONIES. I maintain a weight of

> about

>> 118-120 pounds at a height of 5'4 " . But I'm also one on the older

> CRONIES

>> and I believe Walford is right when he says that us older CRONIES

> shouldn't

>> lose too much weight. I came down to my present weight from a

> starting

>> weight of about 138 pounds.

>>

>> I invite other veterans to tell their stories to our newbies.

>

March 14, 2004

Thanks for sharing this..... it appears that there may be some typo's in

some of your weight notations, and your statement that you actually weight

more from having a bowel movement could perhaps be phrased differently.

You have mentioned for some time now that you are trying to gain weight from

<100 pounds. It's taken me a week a lose the 5 lbs I gained last weekend....

So if you want to fast track, first you take some tortillas... a little sour

cream....

I worry about you and hope you gain all the weight you want and a few pounds

extra for me.

Be well..

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: old542000 [mailto:apater@...]

Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 7:11 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: 4 years on CRON