Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Hi JW: Well if I decided on the kelp route I would eat the kelp just on the first of the month. Or perhaps blend one gram of kelp into my soup once a month. But even if you totally avoid salt in any form you will still be getting iodine from other sources. Francesca suggested fish for example. So an ounce of pistachios a week would be more than enough. It is beginning to look like certain nuts, even in moderate quantities, may be dangerous by providing excessive amounts of micronutrients you don't want too much of - pistachios for iodine and brazils for selenium are two examples. I wonder if there are others. Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > And considering that I like pistachios, 1 oz per day, this is a shock. > But I want to see you eat 0.83 gm of anything spread over a month. > > Regards. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rodney > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:43 PM > Subject: [ ] Re: Sodium/Cancer > > > Hi folks: > > So, in short, the table posted by JW shows that the entire iodine > requirement can be satisfied by MONTHLY ingestion of: > > 0.83 g kelp, or > 88 g pistachios, or > 281 g soybeans, or ........... > 4.5 kg cinnamon. > > I hope I have gotten that right. > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Yes, and no.... as Francesca has already mentioned saltwater fish is a good source. While I don't know if this is why, it seems to me trying to accurately predict the micronutrients in foods could be very difficult. In some cases generations of farming have depleted the soil, which wasn't that consistent to start with. Depending upon the time of the year our " fresh " vegetables could come from another continent. Iodine is pretty interesting since it's essential for proper thyroid function. It is instructive (to me) that it has been artificially supplemented into several western country's food supply to improve the general health (Iodized salt). Micromanagement of micronutrients is IMO a bit of a fools game. To start with the targets are fudged for some " average " everyman (every-age and every-sex too), and then the food data has huge sources of errors. As I have mentioned before we probably need to be alert to serious deficiencies or gross excesses, but don't lose too much sleep trying to attain perfection. Moderation in all things but living.... JR -----Original Message----- From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:58 PM Subject: [ ] Iodine Hi folks: It seems I am beating the iodine issue to death here. But here is an excerpt from an email I received today: " The Nutrient Data Laboratory does not include iodine content of foods in their database. When we inquired as to why, we got the following response from D. Haytowitz, one of the researchers there: 'We do not include iodine in our database due to the limited amount of available data and difficulties with the analytical method. One source is: Pennington, J.A.T. et al. 1990. Iron, zinc, copper, manganese, selenium, and iodine in foods from the United States Total Diet Study. J. Food Composition and Analysis. June 1990. v. 3 (2):166-184' . " If anyone is able to get the data from that article then we can get off the topic for a while! Thanks. Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 I very much appreciate this discussion on salt & iodine. , you've suggested that iodine additives were designed to assist thyroid & general health. Do you believe that excess iodine is linked to adverse thyroid disorders? john roberts wrote >Iodine is pretty interesting since it's essential for proper thyroid function. It is instructive (to me) that it has been artificially supplemented into several western country's food supply to improve the general health (Iodized salt). > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Hi JR: The iodine issue here seems to me to be this: In countries where iodine is added to the salt supply, those who eat salt have no need to be concerned about their iodine intake. But many people at are actively trying to minimize, if not totally eliminate, salt from their diet because of its sodium (or in some cases chlorine) content. In countries where iodine is NOT added to the salt supply there are massive health problems resulting from iodine deficiency. As time goes by more and more countries are coming to realize they can eliminate much ill health by iodizing their salt. If you need confirmation of this go to Google and enter 'iodine deficiency'. There is extensive coverage of many many health issues resulting from iodine deficiency affecting billions of the world's population. By dramatically reducing our salt intake we are placing ourselves in the same situation as those in under-developed countries who do not, yet, add iodine to their diet - unless of course we make sure we get it some other way. Rodney. --- In , " john roberts " <johnhrob@n...> wrote: > Yes, and no.... as Francesca has already mentioned saltwater fish is a good > source. > > While I don't know if this is why, it seems to me trying to accurately > predict the micronutrients in foods could be very difficult. In some cases > generations of farming have depleted the soil, which wasn't that consistent > to start with. Depending upon the time of the year our " fresh " vegetables > could come from another continent. > > Iodine is pretty interesting since it's essential for proper thyroid > function. It is instructive (to me) that it has been artificially > supplemented into several western country's food supply to improve the > general health (Iodized salt). > > Micromanagement of micronutrients is IMO a bit of a fools game. To start > with the targets are fudged for some " average " everyman (every-age and > every-sex too), and then the food data has huge sources of errors. As I have > mentioned before we probably need to be alert to serious deficiencies or > gross excesses, but don't lose too much sleep trying to attain perfection. > > Moderation in all things but living.... > > JR > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@y...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:58 PM > > Subject: [ ] Iodine > > > Hi folks: > > It seems I am beating the iodine issue to death here. But here is an > excerpt from an email I received today: > > " The Nutrient Data Laboratory does not include iodine content of > foods in their database. When we inquired as to why, we got the > following response from D. Haytowitz, one of the researchers > there: 'We do not include iodine in our database due to the limited > amount of available data and difficulties with the analytical > method. One source is: Pennington, J.A.T. et al. 1990. Iron, zinc, > copper, manganese, selenium, and iodine in foods from the United > States Total Diet Study. J. Food Composition and Analysis. June > 1990. v. 3 (2):166-184' . " > > If anyone is able to get the data from that article then we can get > off the topic for a while! > > Thanks. > > Rodney. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Not so. Most of us occasionally eat out, eat at people's houses (social situations etc.) . If you're alive and breathing in an industrialized country, you're getting plenty of salt (and iodine). on 3/25/2004 8:08 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote: > By dramatically reducing our salt intake we are placing ourselves in > the same situation as those in under-developed countries who do not, > yet, add iodine to their diet - unless of course we make sure we get > it some other way. > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 I suggest caution about knocking out completely or eating too much of any single food component. I read on another list about an individual who was eating too much seaweed and noted consequences from too much iodine. I have tried to soften this debate about salt. Yes it should be watched but IMO not driven to zero in our diets, especially if you are physically active. I have traded emails with JWW off list and we agree to disagree on this point. About the only food (and I use that term loosely) that I'm trying to zero out is transfats, and even there I will tolerate any naturally occurring transfats which are pretty rare. Anyone looking for precise answers about nutrition is likely to be disappointed, most simple answers are incomplete or wrong. Good luck, JR -----Original Message----- From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:09 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Iodine Hi JR: The iodine issue here seems to me to be this: In countries where iodine is added to the salt supply, those who eat salt have no need to be concerned about their iodine intake. But many people at are actively trying to minimize, if not totally eliminate, salt from their diet because of its sodium (or in some cases chlorine) content. In countries where iodine is NOT added to the salt supply there are massive health problems resulting from iodine deficiency. As time goes by more and more countries are coming to realize they can eliminate much ill health by iodizing their salt. If you need confirmation of this go to Google and enter 'iodine deficiency'. There is extensive coverage of many many health issues resulting from iodine deficiency affecting billions of the world's population. By dramatically reducing our salt intake we are placing ourselves in the same situation as those in under-developed countries who do not, yet, add iodine to their diet - unless of course we make sure we get it some other way. Rodney. --- In , " john roberts " <johnhrob@n...> wrote: > Yes, and no.... as Francesca has already mentioned saltwater fish is a good > source. > > While I don't know if this is why, it seems to me trying to accurately > predict the micronutrients in foods could be very difficult. In some cases > generations of farming have depleted the soil, which wasn't that consistent > to start with. Depending upon the time of the year our " fresh " vegetables > could come from another continent. > > Iodine is pretty interesting since it's essential for proper thyroid > function. It is instructive (to me) that it has been artificially > supplemented into several western country's food supply to improve the > general health (Iodized salt). > > Micromanagement of micronutrients is IMO a bit of a fools game. To start > with the targets are fudged for some " average " everyman (every-age and > every-sex too), and then the food data has huge sources of errors. As I have > mentioned before we probably need to be alert to serious deficiencies or > gross excesses, but don't lose too much sleep trying to attain perfection. > > Moderation in all things but living.... > > JR > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@y...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:58 PM > > Subject: [ ] Iodine > > > Hi folks: > > It seems I am beating the iodine issue to death here. But here is an > excerpt from an email I received today: > > " The Nutrient Data Laboratory does not include iodine content of > foods in their database. When we inquired as to why, we got the > following response from D. Haytowitz, one of the researchers > there: 'We do not include iodine in our database due to the limited > amount of available data and difficulties with the analytical > method. One source is: Pennington, J.A.T. et al. 1990. Iron, zinc, > copper, manganese, selenium, and iodine in foods from the United > States Total Diet Study. J. Food Composition and Analysis. June > 1990. v. 3 (2):166-184' . " > > If anyone is able to get the data from that article then we can get > off the topic for a while! > > Thanks. > > Rodney. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 The funny thing about plants is they tend to not be same, whereas meats are much the same. I would expect each nut to be specialized in some way. Most have too many calories (and they're not cheap). So I have avoided getting too fond of one or the other. I didn't pick up on pistachios because the Iodine data is not in SR16. I've added other things to my spreadsheet as they come up, but the data is sketchy. Relying on one brazil nut to have the selenium I want is silly also - like God made all brazil nuts the same. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodney Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Iodine Hi JW:Well if I decided on the kelp route I would eat the kelp just on the first of the month. Or perhaps blend one gram of kelp into my soup once a month. But even if you totally avoid salt in any form you will still be getting iodine from other sources. Francesca suggested fish for example. So an ounce of pistachios a week would be more than enough. It is beginning to look like certain nuts, even in moderate quantities, may be dangerous by providing excessive amounts of micronutrients you don't want too much of - pistachios for iodine and brazils for selenium are two examples. I wonder if there are others.Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Very easy in a MV pill. The crux here is too much I, ie, <1100. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodney Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:08 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Iodine By dramatically reducing our salt intake we are placing ourselves in the same situation as those in under-developed countries who do not, yet, add iodine to their diet - unless of course we make sure we get it some other way.Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Growing up in Wisconsin in the late 30s early 40s, we were given chocolate flavored iodine pills once a week in school to help prevent goiter. We didn't have access to the saltwater fish that we ate when we lived in New Jersey. - Ruth From: apricot85 <apricot85@...> Reply- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:43:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [ ] Iodine I very much appreciate this discussion on salt & iodine. , you've suggested that iodine additives were designed to assist thyroid & general health. Do you believe that excess iodine is linked to adverse thyroid disorders? john roberts wrote >Iodine is pretty interesting since it's essential for proper thyroid function. It is instructive (to me) that it has been artificially supplemented into several western country's food supply to improve the general health (Iodized salt). > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 JW: let's not get fanatical here. So what if one Brazil nut has more/less selenium than the next one? Do you really think it'll matter over your lifetime? (IMHO no!) Moderation also extends to not obsessing over minutae - after all mental health counts too. on 3/25/2004 12:57 PM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote: > The funny thing about plants is they tend to not be same, whereas meats are > much the same. I would expect each nut to be specialized in some way. Most > have too many calories (and they're not cheap). So I have avoided getting too > fond of one or the other. I didn't pick up on pistachios because the Iodine > data is not in SR16. I've added other things to my spreadsheet as they come > up, but the data is sketchy. Relying on one brazil nut to have the selenium I > want is silly also - like God made all brazil nuts the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 My perception is that, other than aflatoxin, toxicity from commonly consumed nuts is pretty hard to acheive. All the epidemiological studies I've seen show better health parameters in those reporting consumption of nuts. >From: "Rodney" <perspect1111@...> >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Re: Iodine >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:45:39 -0000 > >Hi JW: > >Well if I decided on the kelp route I would eat the kelp just on the >first of the month. Or perhaps blend one gram of kelp into my soup >once a month. But even if you totally avoid salt in any form you >will still be getting iodine from other sources. Francesca suggested >fish for example. So an ounce of pistachios a week would be more >than enough. > >It is beginning to look like certain nuts, even in moderate >quantities, may be dangerous by providing excessive amounts of >micronutrients you don't want too much of - pistachios for iodine and >brazils for selenium are two examples. I wonder if there are others. > >Rodney. > >--- In , "jwwright" <jwwright@e...> >wrote: > > And considering that I like pistachios, 1 oz per day, this is a >shock. > > But I want to see you eat 0.83 gm of anything spread over a month. > > > > Regards. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rodney > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:43 PM > > Subject: [ ] Re: Sodium/Cancer > > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > So, in short, the table posted by JW shows that the entire iodine > > requirement can be satisfied by MONTHLY ingestion of: > > > > 0.83 g kelp, or > > 88 g pistachios, or > > 281 g soybeans, or ........... > > 4.5 kg cinnamon. > > > > I hope I have gotten that right. > > > > Rodney. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Hi Francesca: In my opinion it is not fanatical to try to make sure one's consumption of some nutrient is not above the Academy of Sciences' safe upper limit for that nutrient over an extended period. (That is 400 mcg for selenium. For me three brazils a day would put me over that). (Nor is it fanatical to check to make sure one's consumption is not below the RDA). Just my opinion. Rodney. > > > The funny thing about plants is they tend to not be same, whereas meats are > > much the same. I would expect each nut to be specialized in some way. Most > > have too many calories (and they're not cheap). So I have avoided getting too > > fond of one or the other. I didn't pick up on pistachios because the Iodine > > data is not in SR16. I've added other things to my spreadsheet as they come > > up, but the data is sketchy. Relying on one brazil nut to have the selenium I > > want is silly also - like God made all brazil nuts the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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