Re: Re: Importance of salt

[Guest guest]

Good post.

One thing that's often ignored is that sodium is in everything, even though it may not be on the label. Most producers post that added sodium. If you have HTN, there is a point you can find that will effect your BP, right or wrong, so intake can be manipulated to lower BP and maybe duck a med or two. Some claim very low levels like 300 mg. My feeling is if it works for those it should work for anyone except maybe a marine walking 30 miles thru heat carrying a pack.

I like 1250+/- 250 to balance the potassium in veggies to a 4:1 ratio, K/Na.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:42 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Importance of salt

Hi Temma:A study in Japan showed a pretty clear correlation between variations in dietary salt consumption by region and the incidence of stomach cancer. Many molecules that contain chlorine atoms are known carcinogens - polychlorinated biphenyls, carbon tetrachloride, vinyl chloride, dioxin .......... table salt is sodium chloride. Since the introduction of refridgeration (and therefore the reduced use of salt in food preservation) the incidence of stomach cancer has declined appreciably.For the above reason I limit my use of salt as much as possible, use much less of it than a recipe suggests for example. But of course we do need limited amounts of the sodium it contains, and it is also a good source of essential iodine. But there are other places we can get these nutrients. And while a salt deficiency can be a cause of cramp, not all cramp is caused by salt deficiency (probably most isn't). Given the 'average intake' numbers below it is doubtful many in the US are deficient in sodium. Just my take. Perhaps I am mistaken. I welcome hearing alternative views on this.Information on sodium:"Sodium Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA)The current recommendation is to consume less than 2,400 milligrams (mg) of sodium a day. This is about 1 teaspoon of table salt per day. It includes ALL salt and sodium consumed, including sodium used in cooking and at the table."UK Sodium RDAThe US sodium RDA of less than 2,400 mg is higher than the UK Recommended Nutritional Intake (RNI) whose upper limit for sodium is 1,600 mg."Sodium RDA - Lower for Those with Blood PressurePeople with high blood pressure should consume less sodium as recent research has shown that people consuming diets of 1,500 mg of sodium had better blood pressure lowering benefits. These lower-sodium diets also can keep blood pressure from rising and help blood pressure medicines work better."Sodium RDA - National Research CouncilThe National Research Council of the National Academy of Sciences recommends an approximate daily range of 1,100 to 3,300 mg of sodium for adults."Sodium RDA - American Heart AssociationThe American Heart Association recommends that for every 1,000 Calories of food consumed, the sodium intake should be 1,000 mg and should not exceed the 3,000 mg limit."Sodium RDA vs. Average IntakeThe average intake in the United States is between 4,000 and 5,000 mg of sodium per day."No Specific Sodium RDA for ChildrenSpecific recommendations regarding sodium intake do not exist for infants, children, and adolescents. However, since eating habits and attitudes about food formed during childhood are likely to influence eating habits for life, moderate intake of sodium is suggested."Note: Sodium DeficiencySodium deficiency is not common but can occur during heavy/prolonged exercise, due to loss in sweat and in high temperatures. Signs of sodium deficiency include: cramps, weakness, fatigue, nausea and thirst."Sources include:US Dept of HealthNational Institutes of HealthNational Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute"Sodium Diet Related

[Guest guest]

From birth, in this country we get sodium added, or did, and we have had little opportunity to avoid it. But we certainly don't need to add any now. There are peoples who excrete 1 (ONE) mEq of sodium per day (and have no HTN), while users (with HTN) excrete 186. I'd say that's a large difference.

Braunwald: Heart Disease: A Textbook of Cardiovascular Medicine, 6th ed., Copyright © 2001

pg 977

"Therefore, I consider sodium restriction to be useful for all persons, as a preventive measure in those who are normotensive and, more certainly, as partial therapy in those who are hypertensive. The easiest way to accomplish moderate sodium restriction is to substitute natural foods for processed foods, because natural foods are low in sodium and high in potassium whereas most processed foods have had sodium added and potassium removed. It is hoped that food processors will gradually reduce the large amounts of salt they often add to processed foods, but in the meantime, patients should be asked to avoid those foods whose label indicates more than 300 mg of sodium per portion. Additional guidelines include the following:

Add no sodium chloride to food during cooking or at the table. If a salty taste is desired, use a half sodium and half potassium chloride preparation (such as Lite Salt) or a pure potassium chloride substitute. Avoid or minimize the use of “fast foods,” many of which have high sodium content. Recognize the sodium content of some antacids and proprietary medications. (For example, Alka-Seltzer contains more than 500 mg of sodium; Rolaids is virtually sodium free.) "

"On page 952 , evidence incriminating the typically high sodium content of the diet of persons living in developed, industrialized societies was presented as a cause of hypertension. "

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: temma675

Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:54 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Importance of salt

> Good post.> One thing that's often ignored is that sodium is in everything, even though it may not be on the label. Most producers post that added sodium. If you have HTN, there is a point you can find that will effect your BP, right or wrong, so intake can be manipulated to lower BP and maybe duck a med or two. Some claim very low levels like 300 mg. My feeling is if it works for those it should work for anyone except maybe a marine walking 30 miles thru heat carrying a pack. > I like 1250+/- 250 to balance the potassium in veggies to a 4:1 ratio, K/Na. > >Sorry, I may have used sodium and salt in the same context. I realize the incidence of stomach cancer in Japan but I heard that this was more to do with the fact that we eat char-grilled fish (Almost burnt fish grilled above a fire, this is a common site in japan).The type of cooking you get at a camp site).

[Guest guest]

Your beginning to sound like a one note banjo... if you are hypertensive yes it may be a good idea to watch salt consumption.

If you are CR or already careful about nutrition, lower BMI and/or operating at an energy deficit, practicing regular aerobic exercise, and already have low BP you may be at as much risk of not getting enough as getting too much.

This has been discussed at length before. FWIW a friend of mine is CR, low BMI, active, etc for several years and still has high/moderate BP so there is no doubt a significant genetic component to BP. Just to confuse issues this same individual also suffered some perceived side effects from a period of too low sodium, YMMV.

As usual moderation. If you are consuming processed foods you are getting tons of salt (read the label). If you are cooking everything you eat and don't add salt you might want to run your numbers in a diet planner to see what you get. You're probably still ok unless you do a lot of sweaty work/exercise.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: jwwright [mailto:jwwright@...]Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Importance of salt

From birth, in this country we get sodium added, or did, and we have had little opportunity to avoid it. But we certainly don't need to add any now. There are peoples who excrete 1 (ONE) mEq of sodium per day (and have no HTN), while users (with HTN) excrete 186. I'd say that's a large difference.

Braunwald: Heart Disease: A Textbook of Cardiovascular Medicine, 6th ed., Copyright © 2001

pg 977 "Therefore, I consider sodium restriction to be useful for all persons, as a preventive measure in those who are normotensive and, more certainly, as partial therapy in those who are hypertensive. The easiest way to accomplish moderate sodium restriction is to substitute natural foods for processed foods, because natural foods are low in sodium and high in potassium whereas most processed foods have had sodium added and potassium removed. It is hoped that food processors will gradually reduce the large amounts of salt they often add to processed foods, but in the meantime, patients should be asked to avoid those foods whose label indicates more than 300 mg of sodium per portion. Additional guidelines include the following:

Add no sodium chloride to food during cooking or at the table. If a salty taste is desired, use a half sodium and half potassium chloride preparation (such as Lite Salt) or a pure potassium chloride substitute. Avoid or minimize the use of “fast foods,” many of which have high sodium content. Recognize the sodium content of some antacids and proprietary medications. (For example, Alka-Seltzer contains more than 500 mg of sodium; Rolaids is virtually sodium free.) "

"On page 952 , evidence incriminating the typically high sodium content of the diet of persons living in developed, industrialized societies was presented as a cause of hypertension. "

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: temma675

Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:54 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Importance of salt

> Good post.> One thing that's often ignored is that sodium is in everything, even though it may not be on the label. Most producers post that added sodium. If you have HTN, there is a point you can find that will effect your BP, right or wrong, so intake can be manipulated to lower BP and maybe duck a med or two. Some claim very low levels like 300 mg. My feeling is if it works for those it should work for anyone except maybe a marine walking 30 miles thru heat carrying a pack. > I like 1250+/- 250 to balance the potassium in veggies to a 4:1 ratio, K/Na. > >Sorry, I may have used sodium and salt in the same context. I realize the incidence of stomach cancer in Japan but I heard that this was more to do with the fact that we eat char-grilled fish (Almost burnt fish grilled above a fire, this is a common site in japan).The type of cooking you get at a camp site).

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[Guest guest]

If you eat ANY processed foods at all (or canned goods) you're getting

plenty. BTW Chinese restaurant food is notorious for salt (as well as

sugar).

on 3/22/2004 2:51 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> ometime I am going to have to check where I am getting it all from.

[Guest guest]

I'm sure the person who tried to blow the whistle on tobacco had a note banjo also.

These folks used 1 mEq per day. I don't recall off hand what that equates too in mgs per day, but I know it's low. Americans > 100 mEq per day. I ask, how could these people survive on ONE mEq per day?

Circulation. 1975 Jul;52(1):146-51. Blood pressure, sodium intake, and sodium related hormones in the Yanomamo Indians, a "no-salt" culture.Oliver WJ, Cohen EL, Neel JV.The Yanomamo Indians are an unacculturated tribe inhabiting the tropical equatorial rain forest of northern Brazil and southern Venezuela who do not use salt in their diet. The group therefore presented an unusual opportunity to study the hormonal regulation of sodium metabolism in a culture with life-long extreme restriction of dietary sodium, with parallel observations on blood pressure. Blood pressures increased from the first to second decade but, in contrast to civilized populations, do not systematically increase during subsequent years of life. In twenty-four hour urine collections on adult male Indians, excretion of sodium averaged only 1 plus or minus 1.5 (SD) mEq. Simultaneous plasma renin activities were elevated and comparable to those of civilized subjects placed for brief periods on 10 mEq sodium diets. Similarly, excretion rates of aldosterone equaled those of acculturated subjects on low sodium diets. The findings suggest that the hormonal adjustments to life-long low sodium intakes are similar to those achieved in acute sodium restriction of civilized man. Parenthetically, these elevated levels of aldosterone and renin were probably the norm for man during much of human evolution and suggest that the values observed in civilized controls are depressed by an excessive salt intake in contemporary diets.PMID: 1132118

----- Original Message -----

From: john roberts

Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:03 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Importance of salt

Your beginning to sound like a one note banjo... if you are hypertensive yes it may be a good idea to watch salt consumption.

If you are CR or already careful about nutrition, lower BMI and/or operating at an energy deficit, practicing regular aerobic exercise, and already have low BP you may be at as much risk of not getting enough as getting too much.

This has been discussed at length before. FWIW a friend of mine is CR, low BMI, active, etc for several years and still has high/moderate BP so there is no doubt a significant genetic component to BP. Just to confuse issues this same individual also suffered some perceived side effects from a period of too low sodium, YMMV.

As usual moderation. If you are consuming processed foods you are getting tons of salt (read the label). If you are cooking everything you eat and don't add salt you might want to run your numbers in a diet planner to see what you get. You're probably still ok unless you do a lot of sweaty work/exercise.

JR

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I think my body makes it(ha) . But I'm down to a point where my forehead sweat is almost tasteless and that means to me <50mg per oz. I can recall my eyes burning from salt 20 yrs ago in Texas sun. Now I can work outside in 98 deg, sweat very little on low fat CR.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:51 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Importance of salt

Hi JR:So it doesn't seem to me that I am in much danger of being sodium deficient.Sometime I am going to have to check where I am getting it all from. From my food logged in so far today I am getting only about one mg of sodium per calorie. Perhaps it will be 1700 mg for the day. Even that is above the UK's upper limit. Rodney.