Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Hi, folks. I'm Marty from N. Virginia, and recently started receiving daily emails following the Wash Post article. I can't hardly read them all! I am not following a strictly CR diet, but thought someone might find my form of eating interesting. I use a Vitamix appliance, a super- blender, to make one of two meals daily. (There is a group for the Vitamix, in case anyone is interested.) The Vitamix is considered a " juicer " , but it does not separate the pulp from the juice. One learns how to make tasty high-nutrition fruit and vegetable drinks and soups with the Vitamix with some trial and error and experimenting, or by following recipes. Benefits for me: By including the pulp, fruits don't send the blood sugar level wayyy up. I can prepare and clean-up after a meal in about 10 - 15 minutes... sometimes less. I thought about posting some information on the Vitamix here on the CR site, as it is a way to combine a lot of nutrition in a concentrated way. The Vitamix 5000 (latest model) is capable of blending whole nuts and seeds (flaxseeds for example) right into the drink, from seed to liquid, with no gritty parts left over). Using almost all organic produce, My current daily drink is approximately this: Cup or 2 of Aloe vera juice. inch or two of peeled Ginger root. whole orange with outer peel shaved off, but leaving the white underneath whole or 1/2 apple, cored to remove bitter seeds. 2 carrots, cleaned but not peeled, ends removed 1/4 cup pomegranate juice pineapple chunks (6 - 7) unfortunately canned, for convenience handful baby spinach leaves, or red or green kale, 2 or 3 large leaves. 1/8 cup golden flax seeds, whole 1/8 cup sunflower seeds 1/8 cup pumpkin seeds 1/4 tsp cinnamon powder Blended for a minute and a half, this comes out as smooth as silk, though with some " body " from the pulp that is included. I have been doing this for 4 - 5 months, and have found I have been losing some weight (not a goal of mine, particularly) and the look of my skin has been improving. For someone like me, who doesn't like to cook, the Vitamix has been a great way to get a huge amount of nutrition into my diet with minimal effort. The cleanup of the Vitamix, by the way, is one of its great differences from other " juicers " ... a few drops of dishwashing liquid into a 3/4 full blender, turn on high, and it takes about a minute total. I would welcome any comments from CRoners re advice on additions or subtractions from my daily drink (probably too many seeds, right?). Great group! Have discovered very interesting things here. Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Looks like a great meal..... you might consider exchanging pineapple and apple for berries (blue, straw, wolf, etc.) Have you tested your blood sugars following ingestion of this mix? It's likely the high seed component keeps the glycemic index of the mix down. >From: " martyg05 " <martyg-01@...> >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Using the Vitamix with CR >Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:25:50 -0000 > >Hi, folks. I'm Marty from N. Virginia, and recently started receiving >daily emails following the Wash Post article. I can't hardly read >them all! > >I am not following a strictly CR diet, but thought someone might find >my form of eating interesting. I use a Vitamix appliance, a super- >blender, to make one of two meals daily. (There is a group for >the Vitamix, in case anyone is interested.) > >The Vitamix is considered a " juicer " , but it does not separate the >pulp from the juice. One learns how to make tasty high-nutrition >fruit and vegetable drinks and soups with the Vitamix with some trial >and error and experimenting, or by following recipes. > >Benefits for me: By including the pulp, fruits don't send the blood >sugar level wayyy up. I can prepare and clean-up after a meal in >about 10 - 15 minutes... sometimes less. I thought about posting some >information on the Vitamix here on the CR site, as it is a way to >combine a lot of nutrition in a concentrated way. The Vitamix 5000 >(latest model) is capable of blending whole nuts and seeds (flaxseeds >for example) right into the drink, from seed to liquid, with no >gritty parts left over). > >Using almost all organic produce, >My current daily drink is approximately this: > >Cup or 2 of Aloe vera juice. >inch or two of peeled Ginger root. >whole orange with outer peel shaved off, but leaving the white >underneath >whole or 1/2 apple, cored to remove bitter seeds. >2 carrots, cleaned but not peeled, ends removed >1/4 cup pomegranate juice >pineapple chunks (6 - 7) unfortunately canned, for convenience >handful baby spinach leaves, or red or green kale, 2 or 3 large >leaves. >1/8 cup golden flax seeds, whole >1/8 cup sunflower seeds >1/8 cup pumpkin seeds >1/4 tsp cinnamon powder > >Blended for a minute and a half, this comes out as smooth as silk, >though with some " body " from the pulp that is included. I have been >doing this for 4 - 5 months, and have found I have been losing some >weight (not a goal of mine, particularly) and the look of my skin has >been improving. > >For someone like me, who doesn't like to cook, the Vitamix has been a >great way to get a huge amount of nutrition into my diet with minimal >effort. The cleanup of the Vitamix, by the way, is one of its great >differences from other " juicers " ... a few drops of dishwashing liquid >into a 3/4 full blender, turn on high, and it takes about a minute >total. > >I would welcome any comments from CRoners re advice on additions or >subtractions from my daily drink (probably too many seeds, right?). > >Great group! Have discovered very interesting things here. Keep up >the good work. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 > Looks like a great meal..... > > you might consider exchanging pineapple and apple for berries (blue, straw, > wolf, etc.) > > Have you tested your blood sugars following ingestion of this mix? It's > likely the high seed component keeps the glycemic index of the mix down. > > Hi Thanks for the ideas. I take your point with the berries - very insteresting and healthful phytochemicals contained in them. I live on the East Coast, and find that strawberries and blueberries (especially when ORganic) are very seasonal and expensive to boot, although I love to get them when I can. Pineapple and apple, besides being easy to obtain, have a significant effect when included in a drink that might include kale or spinach - including them and/or a slice of lemon (peel included) will " brighten " the taste, taking away a possible nausea effect that fresh greens can bring in a drink. I should also have mentioned that I DO get protein, but usually not in the drink. My second meal of the day might be a chicken or turkey sandwich or fish patties cooked from frozen. Yesterday added Walnuts to the mix and will add some brewer's yeast today. NOTE: One important fact I left out re the Vitamix. The motor is so strong that if you throw in a bunch of vegetables and liquid for soup and let it run for 2 or 3 minutes, the heat of the spinning blades actually cooks the soup right in the blender, but uses no heating elements - only friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Vita-Mix sounds good in theory. It's high speed action however, to break foods into the very tiniest particles, tends to cause sky-rocketing glycemic loads, as measured by glucose blood tests. Thus the machine which works wonderfully well, but tends to turn foods into sugar basically, so far as the glucose blood testing results confirm. An unfortunate consequence for a wonderful device. -- Warren On 17 May 2004, Marty wrote: > > ... I use a VitaMix appliance, a super-blender, to make one of > two meals daily. (There is a group for the VitaMix, in case > anyone is interested.) > > The VitaMix is considered a " juicer " , but it does not separate the > pulp from the juice. One learns how to make tasty high-nutrition > fruit and vegetable drinks and soups with the VitaMix with some trial > and error and experimenting, or by following recipes. > > Benefits for me: By including the pulp, fruits don't send the blood > sugar level wayyy up. I can prepare and clean-up after a meal in > about 10 - 15 minutes... sometimes less... If you use glucose blood sugar test strips, your blood sugar jumps up dramatically when using the Vita-Mix blender. Eat a normal meal where you chew. Eat the same meal with Vita-mix. Test your blood sugar after each meal. Experiments show that the smaller the food particles, the faster sugar gets released into the blood. This is the glycemic load, blood sugar, insulin release conundrum suffered when processed foods are introduced into the diet. A food processor makes a raw food into a processed food. A high-speed blender turns (Churns) a " raw product " into a " refined product " . The blenders are great for quick meals, so all is not lost. For meals every day however, there is the down-side of drinking sugar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Warren, do you have a medical reference for this? This seems counter intuitive to the position of other soluble fiber. Extracts such as guar gum, are sold as a fine powder. Just because it's been extracted & micronized, makes the fiber no less effective. Similarly, I don't see how fiber in food would become any less effective. It doesn't " go away " . It only gets smaller & continues to serve a positive influence. The carbohydrate content of leafy greens will not change after puree in the vitamixer. And you yourself claim to puree your vegetable soups. Warren wrote: >Vita-Mix sounds good in theory. It's high speed action however, to break foods into the very tiniest particles, tends to cause sky-rocketing glycemic loads, as measured by glucose blood tests. > >Thus the machine which works wonderfully well, but tends to turn foods into sugar basically, so far as the glucose blood testing results confirm. An unfortunate consequence for a wonderful device. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I have heard similar discussion before along these lines. It's not that very fine juicing destroys the nutritional value of the vegetables but by breaking down the cellular structures it increases the bioavailability of the carbohydrate content. Probably not unlike the difference between cooked and raw vegetables (cooking also breaks down cell walls). It could also be argued that this may make some nutrients more available to raw foodists. So perhaps bad if you're sensitive to sugar swings, perhaps useful if you're trying to get decent nutrition from a raw food diet. I have done some experiments with freezing vegetables to break down cellular structure thanks to water inside cells expanding when frozen. I'm actually trying to get " mushy " vegetables with a cooked texture but still having raw flavors. I use these in cooked dishes since I'm not much of a salad eater, or into daily food prep. Another personal observation related to glycemic index sensitivity, we may already be familiar with the sugar donut effect where some period of time after snacking on a sugary treat we actually feel bad due to blood sugar being depressed by an over response to the sudden rise. I recently identified that I was having a negative energy spike from snacking on raw carrots while I was doing my food prep. Since I can't remember the last time I ate sugar or refined carbs I may be growing more sensitive to GI. YMMV JR -----Original Message----- From: apricot85 [mailto:apricot85@...] Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR Warren, do you have a medical reference for this? This seems counter intuitive to the position of other soluble fiber. Extracts such as guar gum, are sold as a fine powder. Just because it's been extracted & micronized, makes the fiber no less effective. Similarly, I don't see how fiber in food would become any less effective. It doesn't " go away " . It only gets smaller & continues to serve a positive influence. The carbohydrate content of leafy greens will not change after puree in the vitamixer. And you yourself claim to puree your vegetable soups. Warren wrote: >Vita-Mix sounds good in theory. It's high speed action however, to break foods into the very tiniest particles, tends to cause sky-rocketing glycemic loads, as measured by glucose blood tests. > >Thus the machine which works wonderfully well, but tends to turn foods into sugar basically, so far as the glucose blood testing results confirm. An unfortunate consequence for a wonderful device. > > > ________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Internet Pathway's Email Gateway scanning system for potentially harmful content, such as viruses or spam. Nothing out of the ordinary was detected in this email. For more information, call 601-776-3355 or email support@... ________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I think it will probably increase the rate of glucose transport, but I still think that if the pancreas is working right, the rate may not be that great. It still has to be digested and absorbed, right? "skyrocketing" may be exaggeration. And some people don't worry GI. Some greens without blending may not be broken down that much if just chewed. Example is some times chunks of undigested food get thru. I think it would be nice if it would grind the raspberry or tomato seeds - never got an answer on that. I have to guess it doesn't. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: apricot85 Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR Warren, do you have a medical reference for this? This seems counter intuitive to the position of other soluble fiber. Extracts such as guar gum, are sold as a fine powder. Just because it's been extracted & micronized, makes the fiber no less effective. Similarly, I don't see how fiber in food would become any less effective. It doesn't "go away". It only gets smaller & continues to serve a positive influence. The carbohydrate content of leafy greens will not change after puree in the vitamixer. And you yourself claim to puree your vegetable soups. Warren wrote:>Vita-Mix sounds good in theory. It's high speed action however, to break foods into the very tiniest particles, tends to cause sky-rocketing glycemic loads, as measured by glucose blood tests.>>Thus the machine which works wonderfully well, but tends to turn foods into sugar basically, so far as the glucose blood testing results confirm. An unfortunate consequence for a wonderful device.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 The "feeling bad" is a hypogly effect, right? Due to "over response" of insulin sucking BS lower? Would that be more insulin sensitive or less? Seems like that would be better to be more sensitive. Just wondering. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: john roberts Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR I have heard similar discussion before along these lines.It's not that very fine juicing destroys the nutritional value of thevegetables but by breaking down the cellular structures it increases thebioavailability of the carbohydrate content. Probably not unlike thedifference between cooked and raw vegetables (cooking also breaks down cellwalls). It could also be argued that this may make some nutrients moreavailable to raw foodists. So perhaps bad if you're sensitive to sugarswings, perhaps useful if you're trying to get decent nutrition from a rawfood diet.I have done some experiments with freezing vegetables to break down cellularstructure thanks to water inside cells expanding when frozen. I'm actuallytrying to get "mushy" vegetables with a cooked texture but still having rawflavors. I use these in cooked dishes since I'm not much of a salad eater,or into daily food prep.Another personal observation related to glycemic index sensitivity, we mayalready be familiar with the sugar donut effect where some period of timeafter snacking on a sugary treat we actually feel bad due to blood sugarbeing depressed by an over response to the sudden rise.I recently identified that I was having a negative energy spike fromsnacking on raw carrots while I was doing my food prep. Since I can'tremember the last time I ate sugar or refined carbs I may be growing moresensitive to GI. YMMVJR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Guar and cellulose that come in powdered form have no digestible carbohydrate (zero). They are completely non-caloric, except for fermentation at the end of the alimentary canal. These powder fibers provide the benefits we need for digestion, colon, and bowel health. Extra fiber does not raise blood sugar at all. Just the reverse; it lowers blood sugar. Extra fiber delays the absorption of food and of food calories, which is why blood sugar decreases when the guar and cellulose are added to the meal. Extra fiber also helps by lowering cholesterol, especially for hypercholesterolemic individuals. And fiber does it all with no calories -- zero calories -- except for the healthful bacterial fermentation that is essential for human life to produce short chain fatty acids. Fiber also interacts with bile from the liver to lower the cholesterol levels -- helping reduce the BAD cholesterol only. The benefits of firm stools and improved bowel regularity are legendary too. That is why (in part) we use guar, cellulose, and other such helpers in our CR dietary programs. ------- On the other hand, pulverized food whipped into tiny particulates by a VitaMix blender is a different story. Our food put into a blender does have calories. And when caloric food of any kind is whipped into a liquid suspension with very fine microscopic particulates, then consuming the mixture is like drinking sugar water. The thought almost provokes a shudder. Hence we see the spike in blood sugar. That is the reason why the blood glucose reading jumps on our glucose test strip. The phenomenon is like an intense intravenous (IV) feeding at the hospital from a bottle of pure glucose solution. Except with the hospital IV, it is dripped in slowly. When you drink from the blender, you get a caloric rush, like a wildfire. But normal food is fine, if we simply chew our food and allow for slow natural absorption of nutrients. Saliva is also good for digestion, which comes from the chewing. And we certainly get to taste and enjoy our food longer, if we just allow ourselves the luxury of chewing our food. If you are trying to puree (as for a jelly or recipe etc), or trying to produce an ice slurry, or trying to grind to a fine powder, and for many other uses, a blender does a really great job. A blender does have good uses, and can save both time and labor. -- Warren Yes, many references are available. Websites on diabetes are excellent resources, since spiking blood sugar is contrarian for this susceptible medical condition. The Glycemic Index books referenced in CRSupport resource files provide excellent references too. ===================== > -----Original Message----- > From: apricot85 [mailto:apricot85@...] > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 2:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR > > Warren, do you have a medical reference for this? This seems > counter intuitive to the position of other soluble fiber. > Extracts such as guar gum, are sold as a fine powder. Just > because it's been extracted & micronized, makes the fiber no > less effective. Similarly, I don't see how fiber in food > would become any less effective. It doesn't " go > away " . It only gets smaller & continues to serve a positive > influence. See the above. Two entirely different stories. > > The carbohydrate content of leafy greens will not change > after puree in the vitaMixer. And you yourself claim to > puree your vegetable soups. I have used a blender in the past for my home grown sprouts to reduce the chewing. A blender is not used for soups, where the veggies are already soft but still firm. I have been avoiding a blender completely, ever since helpful postings came from the group here -- Thank you! The blender in my home sits idle, and has never been used even once within the last 3 months. If I made fancier recipes, I could find uses for it however. And it is available if needed. > > Warren wrote: > > Vita-Mix sounds good in theory. It's high speed action > however, to break foods into the very tiniest particles, > tends to cause sky-rocketing glycemic loads, as measured by > glucose blood tests. > > Thus the machine which works wonderfully well, but tends to > turn foods into sugar basically, so far as the glucose blood > testing results confirm. An unfortunate consequence for a > wonderful device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Yes, I'm inclined to consider it evidence that my insulin/blood sugar system is working fine. I consider momentary low blood sugar preferable to high blood sugar. The brief drop in energy was not severe and only noticeable since it occurred in the middle of a prolonged period of standing while prepping the week's vegetables. It might not have happened at all if I ate more carrots. Perhaps I'll experiment, some other time. JR -----Original Message-----From: jwwright [mailto:jwwright@...]Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR The "feeling bad" is a hypogly effect, right? Due to "over response" of insulin sucking BS lower? Would that be more insulin sensitive or less? Seems like that would be better to be more sensitive. Just wondering. Regards. ________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Internet Pathway's Email Gateway scanning system for potentially harmful content, such as viruses or spam. Nothing out of the ordinary was detected in this email. For more information, call 601-776-3355 or email support@... ________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 The point about guar gum was not all the wonderful things it will do or that it has no calories. The point is that it does work even though is is micronized flour. Similarly, the fiber in vegetables does not "go away" when micronized & will work to slow down glucose absorption in the gut. Vita mixer does not make the fiber go away. The problem here may be that I assumed we were both talking about low carb vegetables (what I prefer). Perhaps you are talking about other foods. Using your own reference of Mendosa, there are "free food" vegetables that have little to no impact on glycemic index. See, http://snipurl.com/7ckh According to Mendosa, particle size is most relevant to grains. Now if you have anecdotal evidence to support that a combo of leafy greens, avocado, that would be one thing. But that is not supported at the Mendosa site. I wouldn't discount anecdotal. But you did not provide any reference links that support the "skyrocketing" of glucose levels from the low carb vegetables. Warren wrote: Guar and cellulose that come in powdered form have no digestible carbohydrate (zero). They are completely non-caloric, except for fermentation at the end of the alimentary canal. These powder fibers provide the benefits we need for digestion, colon, and bowel health. Extra fiber does not raise blood sugar at all. Just the reverse; it lowers blood sugar. Extra fiber delays the absorption of food and of food calories, which is why blood sugar decreases when the guar and cellulose are added to the meal. Extra fiber also helps by lowering cholesterol, especially for hypercholesterolemic individuals. And fiber does it all with no calories -- zero calories -- except for the healthful bacterial fermentation that is essential for human life to produce short chain fatty acids. Fiber also interacts with bile from the liver to lower the cholesterol levels -- helping reduce the BAD cholesterol only. The benefits of firm stools and improved bowel regularity are legendary too. That is why (in part) we use guar, cellulose, and other such helpers in our CR dietary programs. ------- On the other hand, pulverized food whipped into tiny particulates by a VitaMix blender is a different story. Our food put into a blender does have calories. And when caloric food of any kind is whipped into a liquid suspension with very fine microscopic particulates, then consuming the mixture is like drinking sugar water. The thought almost provokes a shudder. Hence we see the spike in blood sugar. That is the reason why the blood glucose reading jumps on our glucose test strip. The phenomenon is like an intense intravenous (IV) feeding at the hospital from a bottle of pure glucose solution. Except with the hospital IV, it is dripped in slowly. When you drink from the blender, you get a caloric rush, like a wildfire. But normal food is fine, if we simply chew our food and allow for slow natural absorption of nutrients. Saliva is also good for digestion, which comes from the chewing. And we certainly get to taste and enjoy our food longer, if we just allow ourselves the luxury of chewing our food. If you are trying to puree (as for a jelly or recipe etc), or trying to produce an ice slurry, or trying to grind to a fine powder, and for many other uses, a blender does a really great job. A blender does have good uses, and can save both time and labor. -- Warren Yes, many references are available. Websites on diabetes are excellent resources, since spiking blood sugar is contrarian for this susceptible medical condition. The Glycemic Index books referenced in CRSupport resource files provide excellent references too. ===================== -----Original Message----- From: apricot85 [mailto:apricot85@...] Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR Warren, do you have a medical reference for this? This seems counter intuitive to the position of other soluble fiber. Extracts such as guar gum, are sold as a fine powder. Just because it's been extracted & micronized, makes the fiber no less effective. Similarly, I don't see how fiber in food would become any less effective. It doesn't "go away". It only gets smaller & continues to serve a positive influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I was speaking more in terms of general principles, rather that speaking about specific food choices. The principle is that decreasing food particulate size raises glycemic index, and hence raises the speed of absorption into the blood. The amount the glycemic index rises depends on the food. If one whipped butter or avocado in a Vita-Mix, the glycemic index would probably change very little. For other foods, it would probably have to be sorted out with a measurement that one would look up in a table. The answer would depend on the average particulate mesh size (how finely ground up) and the particular food consumed, and whether cooked or not. The general principle is simple. The specific answer for each particular food is complex. Here I have no answers and no expertise at all. One could use a blood glucose test strip to find out for a sample meal, and then report back. That would be useful for all of us to know. Has anyone done it? Or would anyone like to do it? You take blood glucose samples every 10 minutes over a 2 hour time frame, and then plot the results on a chart. -- Warren ========================== On 26 Jun 2004, Apricot85 wrote: > ... I assumed we were both talking about low carb vegetables > (what I prefer). Perhaps you are talking about other foods. > > Using your own reference of Mendosa, there are " free food " > vegetables that have little to no impact on glycemic index. > See, http://snipurl.com/7ckh > > According to Mendosa, particle size is most relevant to grains. > Now if you have anecdotal evidence to support that a combo of > leafy greens, avocado, that would be one thing. But that is not > supported at the Mendosa site. I wouldn't discount anecdotal. > But you did not provide any reference links that support the > " skyrocketing " of glucose levels from the low carb vegetables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 The Mendosa site shows that glycemic index applies first and foremost to food choices, but would be influenced by particle size and cooking, as well as individual processing. To discount the Vita mixer in general misrepresents important factors about glycemic index. As you now indicate, the types of foods are the most important influence in the matter. Also, if one chooses smoothies, juices, vegetable soups, and makes it in a blender or Vita Mixer, there will probably be very little difference in glycemic reaction in comparing the two different appliances. Should you decide to conduct your own blood glucose test, please write share your results. Warren wrote: >I was speaking more in terms of general principles, rather that speaking about specific food choices. The principle is that decreasing food particulate size raises glycemic index, and hence raises the speed of absorption into the blood. > >The amount the glycemic index rises depends on the food. >If one whipped butter or avocado in a Vita-Mix, the glycemic index would probably change very little. For other foods, it would probably have to be sorted out with a measurement that one would look up in a table. The answer would depend on the average particulate mesh size (how finely ground up) and the particular food consumed, and whether cooked or not. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 >>The Mendosa site shows that glycemic index applies first and foremost to food choices, but would be influenced by particle size and cooking, as well as individual processing. The Mendosa site is a excellent collection of information but it is in no way the definitive resource on a topic. Particle size is an important consideration in how a food may influence the GI, (but again, remember, the GI is a poor tool to base food choices on, especially if one is not overweight, or if one is practicing CR-ON). Again, GL is a better tool, but still faulty. Warren is correct and there is data out there (that I will find and post) showing exactly what he said. The more you process a food and increase surface area, the quicker it is absorbed, the quicker (and higher) the resulting rise in blood sugar, and the quicker the food is absorbed (decreasing longterm satiety). I will post some of it later when I am at my desk. Even factors like how long a food is cooked, how long after the food is cooked that you eat it, and at what temperature, all effect glycemic index/load. A cooled down baked potato has a much lower GI/GL than a hot one right out of the oven. >>To discount the Vita mixer in general misrepresents important factors about glycemic index. The sounds like an oxymoron to me. I dont know any important factors about the glycemic index. >Also, if one chooses smoothies, juices, vegetable soups, and makes it in a blender or Vita Mixer, there will probably be very little difference in glycemic reaction in comparing the two different appliances. This is true, and thats because IMHO, the Vita Mix has never been anything more than a very expenisve blender to me. I found some $40 blenders that did what I needed just as good if not better. They cant heat foods like the Vita Mix, but I never needed my blender to do that for me. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I was reading that glycemic load is more important than glycemic index re watermelon as an example. Canary Peg > > >I was speaking more in terms of general principles, rather that speaking about specific food choices. The principle is that decreasing food particulate size raises glycemic index, and hence raises the speed of absorption into the blood. > > > >The amount the glycemic index rises depends on the food. > >If one whipped butter or avocado in a Vita-Mix, the glycemic index would probably change very little. For other foods, it would probably have to be sorted out with a measurement that one would look up in a table. The answer would depend on the average particulate mesh size (how finely ground up) and the particular food consumed, and whether cooked or not. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004  I'm getting confused, Jeff. Let's suppose I use the vitamix to make a v-8 juice? ( if that's possible) Am I concerned about GL or GI there? I mean, if I eat a carrot, the GL is the same whether I grind it with my teeth or grind it small. The BG might rise faster (MAYBE - depends on the enzymes action and absorption), but in the end the amount of insulin required is the same, right? Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Novick Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:33 AM Subject: RE: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR >>The Mendosa site shows that glycemic index applies first and foremost to food choices, but would be influenced by particle size and cooking, as well as individual processing. The Mendosa site is a excellent collection of information but it is in no way the definitive resource on a topic. Particle size is an important consideration in how a food may influence the GI, (but again, remember, the GI is a poor tool to base food choices on, especially if one is not overweight, or if one is practicing CR-ON). Again, GL is a better tool, but still faulty. Warren is correct and there is data out there (that I will find and post) showing exactly what he said. The more you process a food and increase surface area, the quicker it is absorbed, the quicker (and higher) the resulting rise in blood sugar, and the quicker the food is absorbed (decreasing longterm satiety). I will post some of it later when I am at my desk. Even factors like how long a food is cooked, how long after the food is cooked that you eat it, and at what temperature, all effect glycemic index/load. A cooled down baked potato has a much lower GI/GL than a hot one right out of the oven. >>To discount the Vita mixer in general misrepresents important factors about glycemic index. The sounds like an oxymoron to me. I dont know any important factors about the glycemic index. >Also, if one chooses smoothies, juices, vegetable soups, and makes it in a blender or Vita Mixer, there will probably be very little difference in glycemic reaction in comparing the two different appliances. This is true, and thats because IMHO, the Vita Mix has never been anything more than a very expenisve blender to me. I found some $40 blenders that did what I needed just as good if not better. They cant heat foods like the Vita Mix, but I never needed my blender to do that for me. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 >>I'm getting confused, Jeff. Let's suppose I use the vitamix to make a v-8 juice? ( if that's possible) Am I concerned about GL or GI there? My comments were in relation to the same " food " being blended in the Vita-Mix versus a regular blender, using the whole food without discarding any of it. I said there wouldnt be much difference cause they are doing the same thing. So, the concern is equal, either way you want to look at it. Juicing is another story. And, of course, if you make " juice " in a Vita-Mix and use the whole foods and not discard any pulp, than that is completely different that making the juice in a regular juicer that discards most of the pulp/fibers. And you would be better off because with the VitaMix you are getting the everything, just blended up real good. Technically, I wouldnt think of that as " juice " . So, I guess if I were to " rank " them, the whole food would be best, " blended " would be second, and juice would be last. There was an actually study that compared apples, applesauce, and apple juice which I will post soon as I get to it. But, as Warren said, the test is easy to do at home, just test blood sugars after the ingestion of each one of them Jeff I Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Novick <mailto:jnovick@...> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:33 AM Subject: RE: [ ] Using the VitaMix with CR >>The Mendosa site shows that glycemic index applies first and foremost to food choices, but would be influenced by particle size and cooking, as well as individual processing. The Mendosa site is a excellent collection of information but it is in no way the definitive resource on a topic. Particle size is an important consideration in how a food may influence the GI, (but again, remember, the GI is a poor tool to base food choices on, especially if one is not overweight, or if one is practicing CR-ON). Again, GL is a better tool, but still faulty. Warren is correct and there is data out there (that I will find and post) showing exactly what he said. The more you process a food and increase surface area, the quicker it is absorbed, the quicker (and higher) the resulting rise in blood sugar, and the quicker the food is absorbed (decreasing longterm satiety). I will post some of it later when I am at my desk. Even factors like how long a food is cooked, how long after the food is cooked that you eat it, and at what temperature, all effect glycemic index/load. A cooled down baked potato has a much lower GI/GL than a hot one right out of the oven. >>To discount the Vita mixer in general misrepresents important factors about glycemic index. The sounds like an oxymoron to me. I dont know any important factors about the glycemic index. >Also, if one chooses smoothies, juices, vegetable soups, and makes it in a blender or Vita Mixer, there will probably be very little difference in glycemic reaction in comparing the two different appliances. This is true, and thats because IMHO, the Vita Mix has never been anything more than a very expenisve blender to me. I found some $40 blenders that did what I needed just as good if not better. They cant heat foods like the Vita Mix, but I never needed my blender to do that for me. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Apricot wrote: The Mendosa site shows that glycemic index applies first and foremost to food choices, but would be influenced by particle size and cooking, as well as individual processing. Jeff said: Particle size is an important consideration in how a food may influence the GI, (but again, remember, the GI is a poor tool to base food choices on, especially if one is not overweight, or if one is practicing CR-ON). Again, GL is a better tool, but still faulty. Warren is correct and there is data out there (that I will find and post) showing exactly what he said. The more you process a food and increase surface area, the quicker it is absorbed, the quicker (and higher) the resulting rise in blood sugar, and the quicker the food is absorbed (decreasing longterm satiety). I will post some of it later when I am at my desk. Apricot says: Yes, basically, you are agreeing with my first sentence.  All of these things count.  Again, as far as particle size, the data shows that this is most significant to grains.  If you are looking, could you see how the evidence applies to "free foods" (previously posted) with respect to glycemic index.  I would like to know this, and can't find that this is addressed one way or the other.  Jeff says Even factors like how long a food is cooked, how long after the food is cooked that you eat it, and at what temperature, all effect glycemic index/load. A cooled down baked potato has a much lower GI/GL than a hot one right out of the oven. Apricot says: Again, you are agreeing with my first sentence.  Ripeness of fruit & so forth.  Particl size is but one factor. Apricot said: To discount the Vita mixer in general misrepresents important factors about glycemic index. Jeff said: The sounds like an oxymoron to me. I don't know any important factors about the glycemic index. Apricot said: In your email, you've mentioned other important factors that play a role in glycemic index.  I agree with those.  Particle size is but one that is acknowledged for some foods.  So, if you've been following the thread, I would appreciate any input you might find on those free foods. Also, if one chooses smoothies, juices, vegetable soups, and makes it in a blender or Vita Mixer, there will probably be very little difference in glycemic reaction in comparing the two different appliances. Jeff says: This is true, and that's because IMHO, the Vita Mix has never been anything more than a very expenisve blender to me. I found some $40 blenders that did what I needed just as good if not better. They cant heat foods like the Vita Mix, but I never needed my blender to do that for me. Jeff Apricot says: To me, it mostly represents a personal choice...  users seem to like capacity & clean up features.  I'm not a user, & can't see any reason to pass judgment on the personal preferences of others.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 >>Apricot says: Yes, basically, you are agreeing with my first sentence. All of these things count. Again, as far as particle size, the data shows that this is most significant to grains. If you are looking, could you see how the evidence applies to " free foods " (previously posted) with respect to glycemic index. I think you are misunderstanding what I said. First and foremost is that I disagree almost competely with any emphasis on GI or GL in respect to making healthy food choices, especially if one is not obese and limiting caloric intake. I did agree with Warren that increasing particle size, and so increasing surface area may impact digestion and absorbtion speed which also impacts satiety. But, GI/GL is not an accurate measure of these. And I will post info on the effects of these onthe food (which BTW, includes no discussion on GI or GL) In my example, the Apple is better than the Applesauce, and both better than the Apple Juice, NOT because of GI/GL but because of more important issues, like satiety and calorie density, which BTW, along with nutrient density, I think, are important points to consider when making food choices. I want to fill up the most for the least calories, while getting the most satiety for each of those calories, while also getting the most nutrients for each of those calories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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