Re: Re: Good death as important as long life

[Guest guest]

I would advise caution about trying to parse out human QOL from mouse

studies. In some cases the mice strains were selected for susceptibility to

cancer for research purposes.

I prefer the CR dog studies as a more appropriate benchmark. In later life

the restricted animals were much more youthful in energy level and

appearance than the animals fed more calories. This ain't about the end

game, it's about slowing the rate of aging now.

I suspect we will all die (I expect to), and if lucky some of us may even

die of old age. I'm not dwelling on that, I'm focusing on how I'm living.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: aequalsz [mailto:aequalsz@...]

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:10 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Good death as important as long life

> Hi All,

>

> " people are beginning to value a good death as much as they do a long

> life " :

>

> http://edition.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/05/20/good.death.reut/index.html

>

>

> What happens to late-life CRers?

>

> Walford's death was premature for his CR and maybe typical of those

> with his genetic affliction.

>

> How goes the lives of other late-life CRs?

>

> How went late-life CR animals' lives?

>

> Cheers, Al Pater.

Interesting question. Found this about mice.

http://www.lef.org/newsletter/2004/2004_03_22.html

The first study found that within two months of the initiation of the

diets, the rate of age-associated mortality decreased three-fold in

the restricted group, with the average time to death increasing 42

percent. Maximum lifespan was extended from 37.6 to 43.6 months.

The cause of death for both groups of mice was mainly tumors, however

the onset and growth of tumors was delayed in the calorie restricted mice.

Cheers,

Aequalsz

[Guest guest]

Aequalsz: many of us on this particular site agree with your philosophy.

See 's post:

/message/11662

Yes, mind your manners , but a little humor never hurts.

on 5/20/2004 10:21 PM, aequalsz at aequalsz@... wrote:

> That retort begs for a bit of sarcasm since the whole CRON thing has

> never been shown to work on humans, only for animals. But one must

> mind one's manners on this web site.

>

> A lot of people apparently equate the animal studies to apply equally

> well to humans. I don't. So there's nothing for me to be cautious

> about. Have no delusions on my part. I'm certainly not going to

> starve myself and wish to live to be 120 years old - personally I tend

> to think that CRONing actually won't do much for extending life

> expectancies in humans - maybe a few years is all. But will

> " rectangularize " the curve as you CRON aficionados like to say.

>

> my cautious thoughts,

> Aequalsz

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

From: aequalsz [mailto:aequalsz@...]

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:21 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Good death as important as long life

--- In , " john roberts " <johnhrob@n...>

wrote:

> I would advise caution about trying to parse out human QOL from mouse

> studies. In some cases the mice strains were selected for

susceptibility to

> cancer for research purposes.

>

> I prefer the CR dog studies as a more appropriate benchmark. In

later life

> the restricted animals were much more youthful in energy level and

> appearance than the animals fed more calories. This ain't about the end

> game, it's about slowing the rate of aging now.

>

> I suspect we will all die (I expect to), and if lucky some of us may

even

> die of old age. I'm not dwelling on that, I'm focusing on how I'm

living.

>

" I would advise caution about trying to parse out human QOL from mouse

studies. "

That retort begs for a bit of sarcasm since the whole CRON thing has

never been shown to work on humans, only for animals. But one must

mind one's manners on this web site.

A lot of people apparently equate the animal studies to apply equally

well to humans. I don't. So there's nothing for me to be cautious

about. Have no delusions on my part. I'm certainly not going to

starve myself and wish to live to be 120 years old - personally I tend

to think that CRONing actually won't do much for extending life

expectancies in humans - maybe a few years is all. But will

" rectangularize " the curve as you CRON aficionados like to say.

my cautious thoughts,

Aequalsz

================================

I don't normally beg for sarcasm but concede I may not have been my normal

conservative contrarian self. For the record I was advising against reading

too much into mouse experiments, likewise I wouldn't listen to supplement

sales pitches based on worms living a few days longer. The dog studies

resonated with me (I miss my dog) but they fall into the continuum of sundry

mammal studies that have pretty much all had the arrow pointing in the same

direction. Biomarker studies in humans look promising but we are far from

establishing targets, guidelines, etc etc...

Less is better but don't ask me how much less... diet down to Al Pater and

back off half a person... :-) (just kidding Al, but how's your weight

doing?)

JR

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[Guest guest]

The quality of life as one is practicing CRON is important, too. - Ruth

From: " john roberts " <johnhrob@...>

Reply-

Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:21:23 -0500

< >

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Good death as important as long life

-----Original Message-----

From: aequalsz [mailto:aequalsz@...]

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:21 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Good death as important as long life

--- In , " john roberts " <johnhrob@n...>

wrote:

> I would advise caution about trying to parse out human QOL from mouse

> studies. In some cases the mice strains were selected for

susceptibility to

> cancer for research purposes.

>

> I prefer the CR dog studies as a more appropriate benchmark. In

later life

> the restricted animals were much more youthful in energy level and

> appearance than the animals fed more calories. This ain't about the end

> game, it's about slowing the rate of aging now.

>

> I suspect we will all die (I expect to), and if lucky some of us may

even

> die of old age. I'm not dwelling on that, I'm focusing on how I'm

living.

>

" I would advise caution about trying to parse out human QOL from mouse

studies. "

That retort begs for a bit of sarcasm since the whole CRON thing has

never been shown to work on humans, only for animals. But one must

mind one's manners on this web site.

A lot of people apparently equate the animal studies to apply equally

well to humans. I don't. So there's nothing for me to be cautious

about. Have no delusions on my part. I'm certainly not going to

starve myself and wish to live to be 120 years old - personally I tend

to think that CRONing actually won't do much for extending life

expectancies in humans - maybe a few years is all. But will

" rectangularize " the curve as you CRON aficionados like to say.

my cautious thoughts,

Aequalsz

================================

I don't normally beg for sarcasm but concede I may not have been my normal

conservative contrarian self. For the record I was advising against reading

too much into mouse experiments, likewise I wouldn't listen to supplement

sales pitches based on worms living a few days longer. The dog studies

resonated with me (I miss my dog) but they fall into the continuum of sundry

mammal studies that have pretty much all had the arrow pointing in the same

direction. Biomarker studies in humans look promising but we are far from

establishing targets, guidelines, etc etc...

Less is better but don't ask me how much less... diet down to Al Pater and

back off half a person... :-) (just kidding Al, but how's your weight

doing?)

JR

________________________________________________________

This email has been scanned by Internet Pathway's Email

Gateway scanning system for potentially harmful content,

such as viruses or spam. Nothing out of the ordinary was

detected in this email. For more information, call

601-776-3355 or email support@...

________________________________________________________