Re: metal roof, metal ceiling, metal 2x4 -- OK?

[Guest guest]

This question is actually urgent now, as I have to make a decision very soon.

We run 3 cell phones, 2 computers, some air purifiers, and a fan.

Will the metal roof, low metal ceiling, and metal 2x4s amplify EMF issues?

A meter test /without/ running those things says it's OK, apparently.

But that might not mean anything.

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry for all your awful troubles. Well, lots of us here that way.

I'm not the best person here at all to answer this, but here's my thought. -

Whether these items bother you or not, esp. the cellphones, and your internet if

it's wireless, you are still exposing yourself to microwaves. They affect

everyone, no one is magically immune from the effects, we only have varying

degrees of resistance to it.

I think that these things when turned on inside a metal room will cause a rise

in the effects as they ricochet off the metal, like you're in an oven, but this

would have a lot of variables, like - Grounding is good - usually.

The metal would be better for keeping things out, but that varies also

with what is coming in, windows, etc. and your own reactions to it.

Hopefully someone here who has more experience dealing with the metal situation

can answer soon.

~ Snoshoe

>

> This question is actually urgent now, as I have to make a decision very soon.

>

> We run 3 cell phones, 2 computers, some air purifiers, and a fan.

>

> Will the metal roof, low metal ceiling, and metal 2x4s amplify EMF issues?

>

> A meter test /without/ running those things says it's OK, apparently.

> But that might not mean anything.

>

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

You live then inside a Faraday cage.

All your self produced elektrosmog will be reflected upon you.

You do not have the right measuring equipment in oder to measure all

elektrosmog.

Those computers as well as the air purifiers do emit a lot of *dirty air* which

I find more devastating than the microwaves.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton

Re: metal roof, metal ceiling, metal 2x4 -- OK?

This question is actually urgent now, as I have to make a decision very soon.

We run 3 cell phones, 2 computers, some air purifiers, and a fan.

Will the metal roof, low metal ceiling, and metal 2x4s amplify EMF issues?

A meter test /without/ running those things says it's OK, apparently.

But that might not mean anything.

Thanks.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Wales wrote:

> We run 3 cell phones, 2 computers, some air purifiers, and a fan.

>

If the situation is urgent, then you will find it necessary to quickly

replace the cell phones with corded phones.

The computers may be okay, each combination of components and boards

inside it make for varied levels of EMF.

http://seahorseCorral.org/ehs2.html#search

Air purifiers usually only have a magnetic field problem, (and electric

field along with it), but unless it has an ion generator, it has no

" wireless " EMF emissions. If it has a chopping transformer, it will send

noise back into the AC wiring, and that dirty power is a separate problem.

Simple fan motors with no transformers are cleaner, and only have

magnetic field issues.

> Will the metal roof, low metal ceiling, and metal 2x4s amplify EMF issues?

>

Absolutely, just like a microwave oven, the waves will reflect back

inward, over and over and over until they run out of energy.

For the simple fans, simple aluminum metals do not have any effect on

magnetic fields.

Electric fields will be blocked if the metal is grounded.

> A meter test /without/ running those things says it's OK, apparently.

> But that might not mean anything.

>

>

Correct. The metal provides shielding, so it is quieter inside the box,

but only when there are No transmissions or emissions on the Inside.

[Guest guest]

Please, what is a chopping transformer and how do I know a device has it? It

sounds like what I suspect about our " wired " router.

[Guest guest]

Update:

Somebody measured with an EMF meter, with (I think) refrigerator,

stove, a metal air purifier (not my plastic ones), and a cell phone or

two (not mine) running, along with 2 laptops (not mine).

Apparently, a few feet away from appliances the measurements were 1-2

milliGauss, which is apparently basically " nothing " . (I know nothing

about this unit.) True?

The stove was apparently impressively low.

The wire conduits are galvanized something. Again, ceiling is metal

and roof is metal, and 2x4s are metal. Likely they are grounded (I

think the house had a lot of care put into it in general) but I don't

know what that entails specifically besides just attaching a wire to

the ground. I don't know what deGaussing is precisely (equalization

of charges or something?) or for certain if that was done.

I'm supposed to make a decision on that basis.

Dunno what else I can do to find out if I will or will not make myself

seriously sensitive to EMF.

If you have ideas of what contingencies to add, I can add them to a contract.

Thanks very much for your comments and please keep them coming.

--

The Kafka Pandemic:

http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-force\

s_9182.html

I support the Whittemore- Institute (WPI)

===

I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV paper.

[Guest guest]

Thanks snoshoe,

I do wonder how list members are able to get online. That must be difficult.

--

The Kafka Pandemic:

http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-force\

s_9182.html

I support the Whittemore- Institute (WPI)

===

I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV paper.

[Guest guest]

--- At 10:10 PM 02 04 2011, Wales wrote:

>

>Update:

>

>Somebody measured with an EMF meter, with (I think) refrigerator,

>stove, a metal air purifier (not my plastic ones), and a cell phone or

>two (not mine) running, along with 2 laptops (not mine).

>

>Apparently, a few feet away from appliances the measurements were 1-2

>milliGauss, which is apparently basically " nothing " . (I know nothing

>about this unit.) True?

only milliGauss?

Also test for RF (Radio Frequencies, KHz - GHZ) and electric fields.

And test for magnetic fields (to see if any exist) due to grounding

errors on all hidden wires and pipes, and metal building components

-- rather than only testing near appliances.

JD

>The stove was apparently impressively low.

>

>The wire conduits are galvanized something. Again, ceiling is metal

>and roof is metal, and 2x4s are metal. Likely they are grounded (I

>think the house had a lot of care put into it in general) but I don't

>know what that entails specifically besides just attaching a wire to

>the ground. I don't know what deGaussing is precisely (equalization

>of charges or something?) or for certain if that was done.

>

>I'm supposed to make a decision on that basis.

>

>Dunno what else I can do to find out if I will or will not make myself

>seriously sensitive to EMF.

>

>If you have ideas of what contingencies to add, I can add them to a contract.

>

>Thanks very much for your comments and please keep them coming.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I do wonder how list members are able to get online. That must be

> difficult.

Yes, some ES sufferers have someone else participate in the

group for them, because they can't stand being on the computer

long enough to participate themselves.

Marc

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> Apparently, a few feet away from appliances the measurements were 1-2

> milliGauss, which is apparently basically " nothing " . (I know nothing

> about this unit.) True?

>

No, I would consider 0.15 milliGauss to be " nothing " , as the lowest

possible reading.

I start reacting at 0.3 mG, and by 1.0 mG it is a serious magnetic field.

2.0 mG is common near power lines, and is the level referred to as

doubling cancer risks, and 10.0 is the usual maximum under small power

lines.

> I don't know what deGaussing is precisely (equalization

> of charges or something?)

>

DeGaussing is the process of removing the magnetic field from an

iron-metal object by reversing the polarity (with a powerful tool

generating the field), with gradually smaller field strengths, until it

is near zero.

> If you have ideas of what contingencies to add, I can add them to a contract.

>

Well the renter's landlord can't be responsible for what devices are on

in the building.

> I do wonder how list members are able to get online. That must be

difficult.

Yes, with a combination of endurance and quieter than normal computers,

it is possible to be on for short periods.

[Guest guest]

Olha wrote:

> Please, what is a chopping transformer and how do I know a device has it? It

sounds like what I suspect about our " wired " router.

>

When the RMS (average) voltage of a sine wave is reduced by cutting off

the waveform abruptly, instead of reducing it's amplitude. Can't find

any pictures...would have to draw one.

Dimmer knobs are notorious for such noise, and can be detected with a

simple AM radio as interference, sounds like buzzing.

This is done to reduce the voltage of AC current, however this technique

can be used in AC to DC transformers, but you'd have to be able to probe

that equipment with an oscilloscope to see for sure how it works.

Maybe not off topic, I have seen some USB chargers that add 150 units to

the GS meter when plugged in, and emit 0.16 V/m as dirty air too.

Really, really stupid design by cheap engineers.

No way really to tell which devices are noisy, without testing them.

[Guest guest]

If you have all those devices operating inside a metal house and you feel no

symptoms from all that electricity bouncing around and reflecting off the metal

walls then you're probably not electrically sensitive. No way could I live

inside that house. I also live inside a metal house that has reflective

aluminum siding on it and two metals roofs. I have most of my electronic

equipment in one room and inside a somewhat shielded rack. I use smart home

technology and infra-red remote controls to operate my receivers from other

rooms. Thee are many other things that I've had to do to be able to live inside

a metal house without getting sick. If you're talking about some other metal

besides aluminum that absorbs and doesn't reflect the way aluminum does that is

probably better. If you're wiring is inside metal conduit that would also be

better than unshielded wires running next to aluminum siding and all that emf

being reflected off the siding and into the interior of the home. If the

ceiling is metal of a different type than aluminum then that is likely better as

well.

>

> Update:

>

> Somebody measured with an EMF meter, with (I think) refrigerator,

> stove, a metal air purifier (not my plastic ones), and a cell phone or

> two (not mine) running, along with 2 laptops (not mine).

>

> Apparently, a few feet away from appliances the measurements were 1-2

> milliGauss, which is apparently basically " nothing " . (I know nothing

> about this unit.) True?

>

> The stove was apparently impressively low.

>

> The wire conduits are galvanized something. Again, ceiling is metal

> and roof is metal, and 2x4s are metal. Likely they are grounded (I

> think the house had a lot of care put into it in general) but I don't

> know what that entails specifically besides just attaching a wire to

> the ground. I don't know what deGaussing is precisely (equalization

> of charges or something?) or for certain if that was done.

>

> I'm supposed to make a decision on that basis.

>

> Dunno what else I can do to find out if I will or will not make myself

> seriously sensitive to EMF.

>

> If you have ideas of what contingencies to add, I can add them to a contract.

>

> Thanks very much for your comments and please keep them coming.

>

>

>

> --

> The Kafka Pandemic:

>

http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-force\

s_9182.html

> I support the Whittemore- Institute (WPI)

> ===

> I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV

paper.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

On 2011-04-03, S son <sandreas41@...> wrote:

>> If you have ideas of what contingencies to add, I can add them to a

>> contract.

>>

> Well the renter's landlord can't be responsible for what devices are on

> in the building.

I am considering a purchase, and the owner said that he doesn't want

us to do any further testing until I make the offer.

So I want to know what conditions to put in the offer, if I make one,

that will protect me from harming myself with EMF due to the metal

ceiling. Such as predicating the sale on further testing.

People with MCS and Canadian Case Criteria (Carruthers et al. 2003)

neuroimmune disease seem more susceptible to EMF and that is why I am

concerned.

This all has to be very soon, possibly today or tomorrow.

Thanks for your comments. Very helpful.

--

The Kafka Pandemic:

http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-force\

s_9182.html

I support the Whittemore- Institute (WPI)

===

I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV paper.

[Guest guest]

> This all has to be very soon, possibly today or tomorrow.

I think there are probably several people on this group

who would NOT choose to live anywhere that had a metal

ceiling.

Marc

[Guest guest]

Just thought, if you can find a building biologist in your vicinity, if they

also measure emf, which may not be available to you, they could do a test

through the house, and around outside to see what is coming in- hitting it from

mast towers, neighbors, etc. (Which can vary with use, and day.)

Maybe the meter that was used already was a trifield? I would want measured

microwave/radar frequencies too if possible.

~ Snoshoe

>

[Guest guest]

A metal shield can keep external microwaves out, but it can amplify internal

microwaves in case you have wi-fi, cordless phones, cell phones, etc. You won't

want to make a cell phone call in a closed metal environment... Some people

warn about making phone calls on cars for that reason.

Metal can also conduct electricity, so if you have a lot of Romex wiring running

in your home, metal can be very bad. You might see the impact with a body

voltage meter.

>

> >

> > This question is actually urgent now, as I have to make a decision very

soon.

> >

> > We run 3 cell phones, 2 computers, some air purifiers, and a fan.

> >

> > Will the metal roof, low metal ceiling, and metal 2x4s amplify EMF issues?

> >

> > A meter test /without/ running those things says it's OK, apparently.

> > But that might not mean anything.

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> I am considering a purchase, and the owner said that he doesn't want

> us to do any further testing until I make the offer.

>

Ah, sounds reasonable.

> So I want to know what conditions to put in the offer, if I make one,

> that will protect me from harming myself with EMF due to the metal

> ceiling. Such as predicating the sale on further testing.

>

>

I would evaluate the Location first and foremost, and if it is a quiet

place outside, then I would consider the quality of the house, checking

for magnetic, and electric fields. I would expect over 99% of houses to

have high electric fields using romex wiring, as the electric fields can

only be reduced by metal conduit or just turning off the power.

The issue of dirty air and wireless emissions are usually only caused by

the homeowner's choices inside the dwelling. (Assuming of course the

first sentence is confirmed, that the outside is quiet.)

If you intend to run appliances that make EMF noise, then you will need

to shield the device, like a computer, with microwave absorbing sheets

to keep it from turning the inside into a microwave oven.

Older travel trailers have metal roofs, it is not necessarily a bad

thing, as long as there are no noise makers inside. However blocking

cosmic rays might not be a good thing, and that area is really not

certain yet how much shielding is too much in a natural environment.

> People with MCS and Canadian Case Criteria (Carruthers et al. 2003)

> neuroimmune disease seem more susceptible to EMF and that is why I am

> concerned.

>

Agreed.

We can only give guidelines, and reasons for making certain choices. I

doubt anyone can tell you if a particular place will work for you. That

would be like playing " armchair quarterback. " You need to feel it out

yourself, assuming you are sensitive enough to feel the difference

between various places.

[Guest guest]

Hi again ,

On 2011-04-03, S son <sandreas41@...> wrote:

> I would evaluate the Location first and foremost, and if it is a quiet

> place outside, then I would consider the quality of the house, checking

Location is probably good. Rural zoning. More than 1 acre. Internet

is fixed wireless. No businesses nearby. Away from town. Did not

see any high voltage lines (did not really look though).

House is small, but was constructed for MCS. The owner put thought

into it. He moved the refrigerator location for EMF purposes. Still,

metal roof, ceiling, and 2x4s.

I will be in the same room as the kitchen (refrigerator, stove,

microwave, dishwasher), with 2 computers and cell phones. I will

switch to ethernet in order to turn off WiFi.

> for magnetic, and electric fields. I would expect over 99% of houses to

> have high electric fields using romex wiring, as the electric fields can

Romex?

> only be reduced by metal conduit or just turning off the power.

> The issue of dirty air and wireless emissions are usually only caused by

> the homeowner's choices inside the dwelling. (Assuming of course the

> first sentence is confirmed, that the outside is quiet.)

Right, hence my concern. I'm willing to shield a computer if I find

out how; dunno how you would shield a Mac laptop though.

>

> If you intend to run appliances that make EMF noise, then you will need

> to shield the device, like a computer, with microwave absorbing sheets

> to keep it from turning the inside into a microwave oven.

>

> Older travel trailers have metal roofs, it is not necessarily a bad

> thing, as long as there are no noise makers inside. However blocking

> cosmic rays might not be a good thing, and that area is really not

> certain yet how much shielding is too much in a natural environment.

This one is new to me. Blocking cosmic rays is bad? Are these beta

rays from space?

> Agreed.

Glad you have heard of CCC.

>

> We can only give guidelines, and reasons for making certain choices. I

> doubt anyone can tell you if a particular place will work for you. That

> would be like playing " armchair quarterback. " You need to feel it out

> yourself, assuming you are sensitive enough to feel the difference

> between various places.

Indeed it is my choice. But you know far more than me and I am

grateful for your advice, armchair quarterback or not. I am NOT

sensitive enough to feel the difference -- not even sure if I am

actually feeling anything (really want to do a test on myself to make

sure). I don't want to develop EMF issues.

And I am bedridden so probably cannot check the place out again

without great difficulty and health consequences. If I do happen to

get that chance (such as staying for a couple of nights) it will be at

the inconvenience of the owner and will be a big deal -- I will have

to extract the most information from it possible.

However, after I make the offer, I can send people to inspect in

various ways, in principle.

--

The Kafka Pandemic:

http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-force\

s_9182.html

I support the Whittemore- Institute (WPI)

===

I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV paper.