Re: Why has shielding made things worse?

[Guest guest]

--- At 11:08 PM 21 03 2011, cris_aov wrote:

>

>Hi everyone havnt posted in a while.

>

>I live on the same block as 2 cell towers and a 3 story building called earth

connections which has a few big satelite recievers that are visible on the roof

and there may also have antennas. They are like half a block from my house and

my room is on the side of the house closest to them. ......

What carrier frequencies do you need to shield?

This material should help, for up to at least 10 GHz:

LAMINATED MICROWAVE ABSORBING SHEET for RF Shielding with Minimal Reflection

Has non-woven carbon fibers, to achieve both good microwave shielding and high

absorption

Carbon base material - this improved version is plastic laminated on both sides

Double or triple the layers of MW Absorbing Sheet to increase effectiveness.

http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html#259N

http://www.lessemf.com/259.pdf

JD

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Cris!

Welcome to the Club! :-) Your description fully matches my experience (described

at previous " Faraday Cage " threads, and also several others presented already at

Esens... When I had raised that issue a long time ago, the " Club " was rather

small, at least - people were reluctant to accept that the stereotype of EM

waves harming us is not fully applicable... We have to say that we don't know

enough about the ES mechanisms...

Just have in mind that there is no measurable effect of the " gadgets " , some of

which are obvious to be efficient... Just imagine the Faraday cages could have

worked the unknown way (besides shielding) in sense that they act as some weird

gadgets, but in counter-direction... So I am not proposing any solution, just

insisting that shielding is problematic. It is not the issue of reflection, I

have tried non reflective layers (LaVita gypsum boards)... Also, reflections

should have appeared at the meter.

You have the interesting observation of high-pitched " sound " remaining inside,

it is exactly what I observe, but theoretically there is no way to shield the

carrier while passing as you call it " the modulation " . So I have no guess why it

appears...

As I had once mentioned, I have a strange feeling that overhead shields are

specially tormenting, but I didn't have time to further experiment with cages

without ceiling... Anyway, I would appreciate any observations on the issue!

Last year I wanted to research all that further, but didn't catch up with

time... Maybe we can start a research group dedicated to the issue, some of next

days...

Regards,

Drasko

>

> Hi everyone havnt posted in a while.

>

> I live on the same block as 2 cell towers and a 3 story building called earth

connections which has a few big satelite recievers that are visible on the roof

and there may also have antennas. They are like half a block from my house and

my room is on the side of the house closest to them.

>

> I had painted my room with y-shield about 2 years ago grounded to a 5ft ground

rod outside and also tried it ungrounded but both ways made things worse. The

best way I can explain it is that it felt like some of the radiation was blocked

but a portion was amplified and made worse. It was more intolerable to be inside

the room with the paint than when it didnt have the paint. After about 1 year of

sleeping in that room I stripped the paint and felt better.

>

> Ive also tried sleeping with a copper fabric blanket grounded and ungrounded

and it was very similar feeling but more intense to when I was sleeping in the

room with the y-shield.

>

> Ive had some mild success with the naturashield fabric and copper fabric only

when covering certain parts of my body but not as a blanket.

>

> I figured that my unsuccesful attempts at shielding were maybe because Ive

been using materials that reflect rf and my understanding is that they can cause

resonances and if there is a leak then those waves can bounce around inside

until they are absorbed.

>

> Now my next attempt is by using materials that will absorb the rf waves

instead. I figured an absorptive material should not cause these problems and it

doesnt need to be grounded.

>

> So I bought a queen loft bed which is basically a bunk bed without the bottom

bunk. My plan was too cover it on every side with cement board and sleep inside

on the bottom. I started by covering the top with two hardibacker 500

cementboards I already had and there was about a 10% drop on the readings on my

rf meter. So I slept under this for a week and its actually somewhat worse!

Similar to how it was in the room with the paint. I decided to try some natural

stone slate tile on top which Ive been sleeping under for about 1 week now and

same! It just feels more uncomfortable, at first it felt like there was a

noticeable decrease in symptoms like the fields just got quieter but after a

while of being under there it got more uncomfortable , also the slight high

pitched ringing in my ears is louder and much more noticeable. This does not

give me hope that covering all sides will make things better or that an

absorption approach will work.

>

> Ive slept in the living room which is on the side of the house furthest from

the cell towers and is about 20 feet away from my room. I feel more comfortable

there the only thing I could explain is that the extra drywall is absorbing more

of the rf fields. The rf readings are slightly lower there than in my room like

10-20% lower.

>

>

> So my understanding is that cell phone signals and the like are composed of a

carrier signal which is usually high frequency and the modulated signal which is

a lower frequency. The modulated signal being what affects us the most. When we

are shielding we are shielding the r signal right? So is it possible that

the modulated signal is not being blocked or absorbed and possible made more

powerful in some way?

>

> The rf signal is composed also of a electric and a magnetic portion is maybe

the electric portion being absorbed and not the magnetic?

>

>

> -Cris

>

[Guest guest]

I used the y-shield paint in my room & I can't sleep in there either.

Interesting you had the same experience with it.

 

Have you shielded the windows at all?

 

Loni

From: cris_aov <cris_aov@...>

Subject: Why has shielding made things worse?

Date: Monday, March 21, 2011, 11:08 PM

 

Hi everyone havnt posted in a while.

I live on the same block as 2 cell towers and a 3 story building called earth

connections which has a few big satelite recievers that are visible on the roof

and there may also have antennas. They are like half a block from my house and

my room is on the side of the house closest to them.

I had painted my room with y-shield about 2 years ago grounded to a 5ft ground

rod outside and also tried it ungrounded but both ways made things worse. The

best way I can explain it is that it felt like some of the radiation was blocked

but a portion was amplified and made worse. It was more intolerable to be inside

the room with the paint than when it didnt have the paint. After about 1 year of

sleeping in that room I stripped the paint and felt better.

Ive also tried sleeping with a copper fabric blanket grounded and ungrounded and

it was very similar feeling but more intense to when I was sleeping in the room

with the y-shield.

Ive had some mild success with the naturashield fabric and copper fabric only

when covering certain parts of my body but not as a blanket.

I figured that my unsuccesful attempts at shielding were maybe because Ive been

using materials that reflect rf and my understanding is that they can cause

resonances and if there is a leak then those waves can bounce around inside

until they are absorbed.

Now my next attempt is by using materials that will absorb the rf waves instead.

I figured an absorptive material should not cause these problems and it doesnt

need to be grounded.

So I bought a queen loft bed which is basically a bunk bed without the bottom

bunk. My plan was too cover it on every side with cement board and sleep inside

on the bottom. I started by covering the top with two hardibacker 500

cementboards I already had and there was about a 10% drop on the readings on my

rf meter. So I slept under this for a week and its actually somewhat worse!

Similar to how it was in the room with the paint. I decided to try some natural

stone slate tile on top which Ive been sleeping under for about 1 week now and

same! It just feels more uncomfortable, at first it felt like there was a

noticeable decrease in symptoms like the fields just got quieter but after a

while of being under there it got more uncomfortable , also the slight high

pitched ringing in my ears is louder and much more noticeable. This does not

give me hope that covering all sides will make things better or that an

absorption approach will work.

Ive slept in the living room which is on the side of the house furthest from the

cell towers and is about 20 feet away from my room. I feel more comfortable

there the only thing I could explain is that the extra drywall is absorbing more

of the rf fields. The rf readings are slightly lower there than in my room like

10-20% lower.

So my understanding is that cell phone signals and the like are composed of a

carrier signal which is usually high frequency and the modulated signal which is

a lower frequency. The modulated signal being what affects us the most. When we

are shielding we are shielding the r signal right? So is it possible that

the modulated signal is not being blocked or absorbed and possible made more

powerful in some way?

The rf signal is composed also of a electric and a magnetic portion is maybe the

electric portion being absorbed and not the magnetic?

-Cris

[Guest guest]

Cris, do you turn off the electric at night. That would help also. Loni

From: Drasko <cvijovic@...>

Subject: Re: Why has shielding made things worse?

Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 7:10 AM

 

Hi, Cris!

Welcome to the Club! :-) Your description fully matches my experience (described

at previous " Faraday Cage " threads, and also several others presented already at

Esens... When I had raised that issue a long time ago, the " Club " was rather

small, at least - people were reluctant to accept that the stereotype of EM

waves harming us is not fully applicable... We have to say that we don't know

enough about the ES mechanisms...

Just have in mind that there is no measurable effect of the " gadgets " , some of

which are obvious to be efficient... Just imagine the Faraday cages could have

worked the unknown way (besides shielding) in sense that they act as some weird

gadgets, but in counter-direction... So I am not proposing any solution, just

insisting that shielding is problematic. It is not the issue of reflection, I

have tried non reflective layers (LaVita gypsum boards)... Also, reflections

should have appeared at the meter.

You have the interesting observation of high-pitched " sound " remaining inside,

it is exactly what I observe, but theoretically there is no way to shield the

carrier while passing as you call it " the modulation " . So I have no guess why it

appears...

As I had once mentioned, I have a strange feeling that overhead shields are

specially tormenting, but I didn't have time to further experiment with cages

without ceiling... Anyway, I would appreciate any observations on the issue!

Last year I wanted to research all that further, but didn't catch up with

time... Maybe we can start a research group dedicated to the issue, some of next

days...

Regards,

Drasko

>

> Hi everyone havnt posted in a while.

>

> I live on the same block as 2 cell towers and a 3 story building called earth

connections which has a few big satelite recievers that are visible on the roof

and there may also have antennas. They are like half a block from my house and

my room is on the side of the house closest to them.

>

> I had painted my room with y-shield about 2 years ago grounded to a 5ft ground

rod outside and also tried it ungrounded but both ways made things worse. The

best way I can explain it is that it felt like some of the radiation was blocked

but a portion was amplified and made worse. It was more intolerable to be inside

the room with the paint than when it didnt have the paint. After about 1 year of

sleeping in that room I stripped the paint and felt better.

>

> Ive also tried sleeping with a copper fabric blanket grounded and ungrounded

and it was very similar feeling but more intense to when I was sleeping in the

room with the y-shield.

>

> Ive had some mild success with the naturashield fabric and copper fabric only

when covering certain parts of my body but not as a blanket.

>

> I figured that my unsuccesful attempts at shielding were maybe because Ive

been using materials that reflect rf and my understanding is that they can cause

resonances and if there is a leak then those waves can bounce around inside

until they are absorbed.

>

> Now my next attempt is by using materials that will absorb the rf waves

instead. I figured an absorptive material should not cause these problems and it

doesnt need to be grounded.

>

> So I bought a queen loft bed which is basically a bunk bed without the bottom

bunk. My plan was too cover it on every side with cement board and sleep inside

on the bottom. I started by covering the top with two hardibacker 500

cementboards I already had and there was about a 10% drop on the readings on my

rf meter. So I slept under this for a week and its actually somewhat worse!

Similar to how it was in the room with the paint. I decided to try some natural

stone slate tile on top which Ive been sleeping under for about 1 week now and

same! It just feels more uncomfortable, at first it felt like there was a

noticeable decrease in symptoms like the fields just got quieter but after a

while of being under there it got more uncomfortable , also the slight high

pitched ringing in my ears is louder and much more noticeable. This does not

give me hope that covering all sides will make things better or that an

absorption approach will work.

>

> Ive slept in the living room which is on the side of the house furthest from

the cell towers and is about 20 feet away from my room. I feel more comfortable

there the only thing I could explain is that the extra drywall is absorbing more

of the rf fields. The rf readings are slightly lower there than in my room like

10-20% lower.

>

>

> So my understanding is that cell phone signals and the like are composed of a

carrier signal which is usually high frequency and the modulated signal which is

a lower frequency. The modulated signal being what affects us the most. When we

are shielding we are shielding the r signal right? So is it possible that

the modulated signal is not being blocked or absorbed and possible made more

powerful in some way?

>

> The rf signal is composed also of a electric and a magnetic portion is maybe

the electric portion being absorbed and not the magnetic?

>

>

> -Cris

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Chris

That is the problem I am trying to solve.

Several summers I have slept in my camper out in the yard. It is aluminum

covered--I didn't know that would be a Faraday cage, next summer I will ground

it.

Sleeping in the camper I noticed that the low grinding frequency I hear is gone

but I hear a high frequency instead. The high frequency actually feels good but

speeds me up to the point where I can't go to sleep.

The first year I decided to ride it out, I spent 3 to 5 days awake but eventualy

the high frequency got weaker and I was able to sleep. I pressume my body must

have to heal and rebalance and needs several days to recover. When the world

wakes up around 8:am there is too much noise for me to sleep.

Last year I did the same thing, out in the camper, awake for about 3 days and

then was able to sleep.

This winter I lined one wall of the bedroom with household aluminim foil and

grounded it.

I feel better sleeping but hear a high frequency. It has been about a month now,

The high frequency did drop off after about 2 weeks. I think it is easier to do

in the camper because there is less electricity out there to affect me.

Now in the house I am sleeping better with one wall covered but the high

frequency has dropped off got stronger and then dropped a little, still a

problem, but better.

A new problem is that the rest of the house is worse now in comparison because I

feel better in the bedroom.

I was not able to take melatonin but following advice I found the weakest

avaliable, 3mg and take 1/2 of that and find it works.

I wish I understood this low--high frequency thing. A low frequency wave may be

say- 8 feet a high frequency wave may be say- 2 inches, certain thinkness

materials will block one but not the other. If a wave is 8 feet it will bounce

in an 8 foot high room, but will not bounce in a 10 foot room. Does anyone

understand this ??

Best Wishes, XYZ

> >

> > Hi everyone havnt posted in a while.

> >

> > I live on the same block as 2 cell towers and a 3 story building called

earth connections which has a few big satelite recievers that are visible on the

roof and there may also have antennas. They are like half a block from my house

and my room is on the side of the house closest to them.

> >

> > I had painted my room with y-shield about 2 years ago grounded to a 5ft

ground rod outside and also tried it ungrounded but both ways made things worse.

The best way I can explain it is that it felt like some of the radiation was

blocked but a portion was amplified and made worse. It was more intolerable to

be inside the room with the paint than when it didnt have the paint. After about

1 year of sleeping in that room I stripped the paint and felt better.

> >

> > Ive also tried sleeping with a copper fabric blanket grounded and ungrounded

and it was very similar feeling but more intense to when I was sleeping in the

room with the y-shield.

> >

> > Ive had some mild success with the naturashield fabric and copper fabric

only when covering certain parts of my body but not as a blanket.

> >

> > I figured that my unsuccesful attempts at shielding were maybe because Ive

been using materials that reflect rf and my understanding is that they can cause

resonances and if there is a leak then those waves can bounce around inside

until they are absorbed.

> >

> > Now my next attempt is by using materials that will absorb the rf waves

instead. I figured an absorptive material should not cause these problems and it

doesnt need to be grounded.

> >

> > So I bought a queen loft bed which is basically a bunk bed without the

bottom bunk. My plan was too cover it on every side with cement board and sleep

inside on the bottom. I started by covering the top with two hardibacker 500

cementboards I already had and there was about a 10% drop on the readings on my

rf meter. So I slept under this for a week and its actually somewhat worse!

Similar to how it was in the room with the paint. I decided to try some natural

stone slate tile on top which Ive been sleeping under for about 1 week now and

same! It just feels more uncomfortable, at first it felt like there was a

noticeable decrease in symptoms like the fields just got quieter but after a

while of being under there it got more uncomfortable , also the slight high

pitched ringing in my ears is louder and much more noticeable. This does not

give me hope that covering all sides will make things better or that an

absorption approach will work.

> >

> > Ive slept in the living room which is on the side of the house furthest from

the cell towers and is about 20 feet away from my room. I feel more comfortable

there the only thing I could explain is that the extra drywall is absorbing more

of the rf fields. The rf readings are slightly lower there than in my room like

10-20% lower.

> >

> >

> > So my understanding is that cell phone signals and the like are composed of

a carrier signal which is usually high frequency and the modulated signal which

is a lower frequency. The modulated signal being what affects us the most. When

we are shielding we are shielding the r signal right? So is it possible

that the modulated signal is not being blocked or absorbed and possible made

more powerful in some way?

> >

> > The rf signal is composed also of a electric and a magnetic portion is maybe

the electric portion being absorbed and not the magnetic?

> >

> >

> > -Cris

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I won't claim to understand all this, but here are some thoughts.

It may be that a 10 or 20 % reduction is completely insignificant.

You can barely see a 10% reduction in lighting, and won't tell

the difference between two sounds differing 10% in volume unless

they are one right after the other. How quiet the background is would

matter more, so a bed with cement board around it may be quieter

and that may make the ringing sound worse.

As for grounding, if there is an RF resonance, you need a path to ground

that is at least 1/8 times as wide as it is long. A skinny grounding rod is

not very good at high frequencies. You want that plus some metal flashing.

A serious RF ground will have multiple ground rods connected by thick wires,

usually welded.

Long wires have inductance and it's the combination of inductance and

capacitance that gives you resonance. Putting ferrites on wires can disrupt

the resonance by adding damping.

As for more exotic speculative explanations, many materials like quartz

are piezoelectric. If the quartz is all oriented (which is unlikely) it

will rectify the RF and generated a demodulated signal. Your bones and

tendons may be doing this too, which may be what you can hear. It seems

unlikely that cement board would play any role in this, but not

inconceivable.

Bill

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:03 PM, xyzxyz12311@... <

xyzxyz12311@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hello Chris

>

> That is the problem I am trying to solve.

>

> Several summers I have slept in my camper out in the yard. It is aluminum

> covered--I didn't know that would be a Faraday cage, next summer I will

> ground it.

>

> Sleeping in the camper I noticed that the low grinding frequency I hear is

> gone but I hear a high frequency instead. The high frequency actually feels

> good but speeds me up to the point where I can't go to sleep.

>

> The first year I decided to ride it out, I spent 3 to 5 days awake but

> eventualy the high frequency got weaker and I was able to sleep. I pressume

> my body must have to heal and rebalance and needs several days to recover.

> When the world wakes up around 8:am there is too much noise for me to sleep.

>

> Last year I did the same thing, out in the camper, awake for about 3 days

> and then was able to sleep.

>

> This winter I lined one wall of the bedroom with household aluminim foil

> and grounded it.

>

> I feel better sleeping but hear a high frequency. It has been about a month

> now, The high frequency did drop off after about 2 weeks. I think it is

> easier to do in the camper because there is less electricity out there to

> affect me.

>

> Now in the house I am sleeping better with one wall covered but the high

> frequency has dropped off got stronger and then dropped a little, still a

> problem, but better.

>

> A new problem is that the rest of the house is worse now in comparison

> because I feel better in the bedroom.

>

> I was not able to take melatonin but following advice I found the weakest

> avaliable, 3mg and take 1/2 of that and find it works.

>

> I wish I understood this low--high frequency thing. A low frequency wave

> may be say- 8 feet a high frequency wave may be say- 2 inches, certain

> thinkness materials will block one but not the other. If a wave is 8 feet it

> will bounce in an 8 foot high room, but will not bounce in a 10 foot room.

> Does anyone understand this ??

>

> Best Wishes, XYZ

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi everyone havnt posted in a while.

> > >

> > > I live on the same block as 2 cell towers and a 3 story building called

> earth connections which has a few big satelite recievers that are visible on

> the roof and there may also have antennas. They are like half a block from

> my house and my room is on the side of the house closest to them.

> > >

> > > I had painted my room with y-shield about 2 years ago grounded to a 5ft

> ground rod outside and also tried it ungrounded but both ways made things

> worse. The best way I can explain it is that it felt like some of the

> radiation was blocked but a portion was amplified and made worse. It was

> more intolerable to be inside the room with the paint than when it didnt

> have the paint. After about 1 year of sleeping in that room I stripped the

> paint and felt better.

> > >

> > > Ive also tried sleeping with a copper fabric blanket grounded and

> ungrounded and it was very similar feeling but more intense to when I was

> sleeping in the room with the y-shield.

> > >

> > > Ive had some mild success with the naturashield fabric and copper

> fabric only when covering certain parts of my body but not as a blanket.

> > >

> > > I figured that my unsuccesful attempts at shielding were maybe because

> Ive been using materials that reflect rf and my understanding is that they

> can cause resonances and if there is a leak then those waves can bounce

> around inside until they are absorbed.

> > >

> > > Now my next attempt is by using materials that will absorb the rf waves

> instead. I figured an absorptive material should not cause these problems

> and it doesnt need to be grounded.

> > >

> > > So I bought a queen loft bed which is basically a bunk bed without the

> bottom bunk. My plan was too cover it on every side with cement board and

> sleep inside on the bottom. I started by covering the top with two

> hardibacker 500 cementboards I already had and there was about a 10% drop on

> the readings on my rf meter. So I slept under this for a week and its

> actually somewhat worse! Similar to how it was in the room with the paint. I

> decided to try some natural stone slate tile on top which Ive been sleeping

> under for about 1 week now and same! It just feels more uncomfortable, at

> first it felt like there was a noticeable decrease in symptoms like the

> fields just got quieter but after a while of being under there it got more

> uncomfortable , also the slight high pitched ringing in my ears is louder

> and much more noticeable. This does not give me hope that covering all sides

> will make things better or that an absorption approach will work.

> > >

> > > Ive slept in the living room which is on the side of the house furthest

> from the cell towers and is about 20 feet away from my room. I feel more

> comfortable there the only thing I could explain is that the extra drywall

> is absorbing more of the rf fields. The rf readings are slightly lower there

> than in my room like 10-20% lower.

> > >

> > >

> > > So my understanding is that cell phone signals and the like are

> composed of a carrier signal which is usually high frequency and the

> modulated signal which is a lower frequency. The modulated signal being what

> affects us the most. When we are shielding we are shielding the r

> signal right? So is it possible that the modulated signal is not being

> blocked or absorbed and possible made more powerful in some way?

> > >

> > > The rf signal is composed also of a electric and a magnetic portion is

> maybe the electric portion being absorbed and not the magnetic?

> > >

> > >

> > > -Cris

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Drasko wrote:

> So I am not proposing any solution, just insisting that shielding is

problematic.

I will agree with that.

I too get the feeling it is better, then feel later it is not enough.

Perhaps this is why I prefer to emphasize getting some Distance between

you and the tower, or any strong carrier signal that meters Can pick up.

[Guest guest]

Shielding concerns only half of the problem.

With shielding, one holds the transversal waves.

And the body reacts to that.

But the longitudinal waves go right through the shielding, and continue to work

on the body.

The properties of the longitudinal waves may change when they pass a shielding.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton

Re: Re: Why has shielding made things worse?

Drasko wrote:

> So I am not proposing any solution, just insisting that shielding is

problematic.

I will agree with that.

I too get the feeling it is better, then feel later it is not enough.

Perhaps this is why I prefer to emphasize getting some Distance between

you and the tower, or any strong carrier signal that meters Can pick up.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

> So I am not proposing any solution, just insisting that shielding

> is problematic.

It sounds like some people have benefited from " shielding " with wood.

For those of you didn't like what happened after shielding with

normal shielding materials, have you tried using wood instead and

seen if it helped/hurt/didn't make a difference?

Marc

[Guest guest]

PUK repllies - I am with Bill all the way, sheilding is probably best left

to highly experienced experts, not diy.

In a message dated 22/03/2011 19:16:22 GMT Standard Time, wbruno@...

writes:

I won't claim to understand all this, but here are some thoughts.

It may be that a 10 or 20 % reduction is completely insignificant.

You can barely see a 10% reduction in lighting, and won't tell

the difference between two sounds differing 10% in volume unless

they are one right after the other. How quiet the background is would

matter more, so a bed with cement board around it may be quieter

and that may make the ringing sound worse.

As for grounding, if there is an RF resonance, you need a path to ground

that is at least 1/8 times as wide as it is long. A skinny grounding rod

is

not very good at high frequencies. You want that plus some metal flashing.

A serious RF ground will have multiple ground rods connected by thick

wires,

usually welded.

Long wires have inductance and it's the combination of inductance and

capacitance that gives you resonance. Putting ferrites on wires can

disrupt

the resonance by adding damping.

As for more exotic speculative explanations, many materials like quartz

are piezoelectric. If the quartz is all oriented (which is unlikely) it

will rectify the RF and generated a demodulated signal. Your bones and

tendons may be doing this too, which may be what you can hear. It seems

unlikely that cement board would play any role in this, but not

inconceivable.

Bill

[Guest guest]

" " What carrier frequencies do you need to shield? " " "

The carrier signals from the cell towers and maybe from the earth connections

building. I dont have a spectrum analyzer or anything like that so I cant say

what frequencies they are.

" This material should help, for up to at least 10 GHz: " " "

Ive tried the carbon material from lessemf a while back and I also have some

graphite felt that is like 1/10 " thick and I made cover me on top but that also

caused the same uncomfortable feeling.

" " Hi, Cris!

Welcome to the Club! :-) Your description fully matches my experience

(described at previous " Faraday Cage " threads, and also several others presented

already at Esens... When I had raised that issue a long time ago, the " Club " was

rather small, at least - people were reluctant to accept that the stereotype of

EM waves harming us is not fully applicable... We have to say that we don't know

enough about the ES mechanisms...

Just have in mind that there is no measurable effect of the " gadgets " , some of

which are obvious to be efficient... Just imagine the Faraday cages could have

worked the unknown way (besides shielding) in sense that they act as some weird

gadgets, but in counter-direction... So I am not proposing any solution, just

insisting that shielding is problematic. It is not the issue of reflection, I

have tried non reflective layers (LaVita gypsum boards)... Also, reflections

should have appeared at the meter " " "

-Hi Drasko! Ive read your posts before, yes this is a sad club to be in. The

lavita does have a conductive layer on it though that needs to be grounded from

what Ive read, I figured if I used a non conductive absorber I might have better

success but so far not so much. I figured that maybe the conductive material

around us was have the problem since it is not a natural thing, throughout our

evolution we have always lived in stone, adobe, or some type of brick or

concrete habitat and many people live in stone or brick/concrete homes to this

day with no problem.

Have you tried concrete or some type of natural stone or ceramic as an

absorber before?

" " " You have the interesting observation of high-pitched " sound " remaining

inside, it is exactly what I observe, but theoretically there is no way to

shield the carrier while passing as you call it " the modulation " . So I have no

guess why it appears... " " "

Oh ok so if you shield the carrier signal " the modulation " or the other pulses

on the carrier signal will be reduced or blocked to the same degree as the

carrier signal, would this be correct? And would this be because the modulated

signal cant travel without the carrier even a small distance?

" " " As I had once mentioned, I have a strange feeling that overhead shields are

specially tormenting, but I didn't have time to further experiment with cages

without ceiling... Anyway, I would appreciate any observations on the issue! " " "

Ive observed the same thing when I was in the room with the paint I felt as if

the negative energy or whatever was coming from the top. I had figured this was

maybe because there is more radiation coming from the ceiling since the outside

walls of my house have stucco which can absorb some rf, so the rf fields reacted

with the paint on the ceiling much stronger.

I cant compare right now since I only have the top of the loft bed covered.

" " Last year I wanted to research all that further, but didn't catch up with

time... Maybe we can start a research group dedicated to the issue, some of next

days...

Regards,

Drasko " " " " "

Definitely! Im in. I want to solve this issue.

" " Sleeping in the camper I noticed that the low grinding frequency I hear is

gone but I hear a high frequency instead. The high frequency actually feels good

but speeds me up to the point where I can't go to sleep. " "

I also feel like It speeds me up, my heart beats a bit faster and more

adrenaline is being produced its uncomfortable and makes it harder to sleep.

" " " Have you shielded the windows at all? " " "

Yes. Ive also turned off the breaker to my room and this does provide a small

measure of relief in some way but I still have the main problem. I also have

almost everything in the house connected to isobar power strips to reduce dirty

electricity. Im pretty sure dirty electricity is not the main issue since I

sleep better in the living room and in another bedroom and they have share the

same circuit as my room and have the same level of dirty electricity.

Bill, , Marc I will do a little more research and try responding to your

posts tomorrow.

[Guest guest]

Just want to add one more question.

My understanding is that when an absorber absorbs an rf signal it converts it

into current which then gets converted to heat, is it possible that this current

that is produced could somehow be causing the problems were experiencing with

shielding? Is the current maybe creating some type of magnetic field?

[Guest guest]

Cris,

That with adsorption is something I was also thinking about!! I am now too busy,

but hope to get in touch with you more soon! Meanwhile, yes, you are right -

there is a difference between conductive and non-conductive shields, in sense

that micro currents induced in conductive ones would necessarily have micro

magnetic fields around them!! Still, such magnetic fields are extremely low, and

also unable to propagate as a wave further, they propagate as static magnetic

field which diminishes fast with distance, but there is some food for thoughts

in it, maybe...

Per your question, I have underground room with meter thick concrete walls, and

feel more or less ok there... But it not as good as one should think according

to the meter... Anyway, such adsorbing shields I consider much better...

Drasko

>

> Just want to add one more question.

>

> My understanding is that when an absorber absorbs an rf signal it converts it

into current which then gets converted to heat, is it possible that this current

that is produced could somehow be causing the problems were experiencing with

shielding? Is the current maybe creating some type of magnetic field?

>

[Guest guest]

Shielding may cause what I call *dirty air* measurable at 1 meter distance.

Especially carbon.

Be also aware that the steel reinforcement bars in concrete do work like a

secundary antenna , and do transmit elektrosmog.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton

Re: Why has shielding made things worse?

Cris,

That with adsorption is something I was also thinking about!! I am now too

busy, but hope to get in touch with you more soon! Meanwhile, yes, you are right

- there is a difference between conductive and non-conductive shields, in sense

that micro currents induced in conductive ones would necessarily have micro

magnetic fields around them!! Still, such magnetic fields are extremely low, and

also unable to propagate as a wave further, they propagate as static magnetic

field which diminishes fast with distance, but there is some food for thoughts

in it, maybe...

Per your question, I have underground room with meter thick concrete walls,

and feel more or less ok there... But it not as good as one should think

according to the meter... Anyway, such adsorbing shields I consider much

better...

Drasko

>

> Just want to add one more question.

>

> My understanding is that when an absorber absorbs an rf signal it converts

it into current which then gets converted to heat, is it possible that this

current that is produced could somehow be causing the problems were experiencing

with shielding? Is the current maybe creating some type of magnetic field?

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

What kind of material would you suggest for a radio tower? I have a tower that

looks like a radio tower probably a mile away.

[Guest guest]

>

> > So I am not proposing any solution, just insisting that shielding

> > is problematic.

>

> It sounds like some people have benefited from " shielding " with wood.

> For those of you didn't like what happened after shielding with

> normal shielding materials, have you tried using wood instead and

> seen if it helped/hurt/didn't make a difference?

>

> Marc

>

I'm hearing a lot of advice from people who haven't had success with shielding.

My shielding works great. I've been working on it for a long time. I don't

think you want to shield with wood. But you do want to cover the shielding with

something like wood. Also, my bedroom is shielding with many layers of

microwave blocking velostat on the ceiling. Once I started covering up the

shielding with tongue and groove wood and a layer of pink panther insulation

between the wood and the shielding I noticed one of the atomic clocks in that

room stop working correctly. It lost the signal for a couple days and then got

it again and worked for awhile. The house is a mobile home and the floors

aren't much more than a subfloor. I've been putting in flooring and in that

room I put a layer of aluminum foil under the hardwood floor. This seemed to

help quite a bit and the atomic clock stopped for good after I did this. The

home has two metal roofs and so I have to think that reflection was a problem

coming off the shielding and the metal roofs from inside the house. The wood

definately helped but I would not use wood as a shielding material by itself and

expect much. I've noticed that everything gets real quiet inside my head when

I'm inside a wooden house that has lots of thick insulation in the walls and

above the ceiling. I would include insulation with the wood and put this over

the shielding. This has worked for me.