Re: Petition: the least we can do is sign it? Thanks...

[Guest guest]

Hello

I am sorry, but such actions do not result in effects.

Sure, the awareness under the population grows, but not with the decision

makers.

Beperkdestraling.org does not have its priorities in the right order, and they

do not fully understand our problemacy.

The main point everybody should realise is, *why do we want to lower the EMF

levels?*

For lowering these levels, the cooperation of our politicians is needed. Only

they can change the regulations. The providers are not to blame, they work

within the guide lines.

Again: *why do we want to lower the EMF levels?*

It is because we fear health complications.

But the authorities see this as only fear and underbelly feelings.

It is not substantiated. There is not enough proof of that.

The only *proof* comes from the Health Councils, who state that there is *no

reason for concern*.

In the Netherlands we do have those 5 *nutcases*, who can be seen on television,

and who claim that they are electrosensitive, but cannot prove that.

That is the main point. Even a thousand people who may be electrosenstive, are a

negligible factor, as seen by the authorities. (The officials even refuse

blatantly to examine them.)

A central complaints desk does not seem possible, because every action group has

its own policy.

So, there are no official figures of electrosensitives. We can only guess.

(With others we calculated in the Netherlands and came to the conclusion that a

figure of five thousand persons would be the total amount of concerned people.)

Such a figure is negligible for the politicians.

A petition gives only a figure of discomfort with certain civilians, but no

cause for concern.

Again: *why do we want to lower the EMF levels?*

Our health is at risk. But for that we do need proof. Hard proof, and that is

something we do not have.

Electrosensitivity is an illness.

And only physicians are competent to give statements about health.

Not engineers, not physicists, not biologists, not salesmen, not philosophers,

but only physicians.

So we have to concentrate on the physicians and docters, and let them speak for

us.

We must nourish and cherish those physicians who are willing to stick out their

neck in public.

In Belgium, beperkdestraling.org had launched a petition about wifi, which was

among others also supported by two well-known belgian professors.

In a newspaper article originated by beperkdestraling.org, another article

appeared where those two professors were slandered, ridiculed, affronted and

insulted. Many feel, that it was the obligation of Beperkdestraling.org into

undertaking legal action against this infamous slander, but they did not.

So these two professors wil be lost for any movement, and they will think twice

for supporting any action again.

As I see in other countries, protest demonstrations and petitions against

authorities do not result in any change.

And Belgium takes a different position in Europe.

Where most countries apply the ICNIRP guidelines, as in the Netherlands, the

dutch Health Council advises much higher guide lines than those of the ICNIRP,

because they *feel that they can better read* than other scientists.

In Belgium, there the Health Council has advised for many years for GSM 900

(ICNIRP 41 V/m) a 3 V/m, which the belgian government has adopted 20,6 V/m for

many years. The county of Brussels has adopted this 3 V/m.

The Flanders county has adopted now also 3 V/m per antenna for GSM900, 4,12 V/m

for GSM1800 and 4,34 V/m for 3G.

In a sneaky way, the flemish ministry has added a cumulative guidline for GSM900

20,6 V/m, for GSM1800 29,1 V/m and for 3G 30,7 V/m.

Nobody realised in Belgium what this implicates.

People in the street would think; 20,6 devided by 3 V/m will give a maximum of 7

GSM 900 antennas at 3 V/m.

Such a calculation is false. 20,6 V/m means 47 GSM900 antennas at 3 V/m each,

and 50 antennas of GSM1800 or 3G.

Now, some groups want 0,6 V/m.

In my opinion, that will not happen, till the belgian Health Councel also

advises 0,6 V/m.

So, the recommendations of the Health Councils seem to be the most important

parts in our struggle.

In the Netherlands a legal action is running against the health Council, because

members do have *conflicts of interest*.

One member has an advisary company to the telecom industry, and another is

member of the ICNIRP.

So, wake up your physicians, enlighten them, and let them give their

conclusions.

Only when persons in a white coat, supplied with the necessary titles claim that

one may get sick from EMF, the politicians will listen.

Anecdote (from Germany)

Mr. Niemann, also previous Siemens Ingenieur, and elektrosensible, said around

1993, that in Bonn a " well-known Symposium " was held, at that time

electrosensibility could not be denied , and they deliberated, how many % of the

population could be electrosensible, and they concluded about 4 - 7%, and

concluded that as neglectable.

Let us take as realistic comparison our little friends, the mites. When in the

whole of Germany a 100 persons will get meningitis, after they have been bitten

by a mite, many physicians want direct to inject 80 million as also with the

supposed birds flu - and what with the pandemonium Elektrosmog?

1993 4-7% ca. 3.000.000 persons continuous ill - nothing, neglectable small!

A revolt or uprising like in Egypt, Tunesia, Lybia, in order to overthrow

ministry LNE in Flanders seems far from realistic.

Most people do not want to get rid of their *toys*. They even give them to their

youngest children!

The problem is not with the mobile phone masts, but lies in the extensive use of

the mobile phones.

The providers are not our enemy. It is the lawmakers.

And the urgence to change the law can only be given by the physicians.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton

Petition: the least we can do is sign it? Thanks...

Hi,

Pretty soon, we're starting a petition in Flanders (Brussels/Belgium/Europe)

against emf (lower emissions, against 4G,...),

We will go on the streets for signatures + also on-line petition-site (linked

with the Flemish anti emf organisation beperkdestraling.org),

The site will be built by Gert Droessaert, who already made a petition-site

against high decibels and raising the awareness on long term effects,

Actually long term effects from too high decibels seem partially similar to

these of emf, in both cases central nervous system is affected,

Thank you Gert for setting up our petition site as well, I think the least we

can do is sign your petition?

To everybody who reads this, please sign on Gert's petition site against

outrageously high decibels, you can vote on:

http://www.gertdroessaert.be/petitiedecibel_sign.php?l=en

You only have to fill in your name and your e-mail and that's it!

And please forward this to YOUR friends/family as well,

Thanks a lot,

greetings,

.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

concluded:

The providers are not our enemy. It is the lawmakers.

And the urgence to change the law can only be given by the physicians.

writes:

I completely agree. It's the lawmakers, it's the politicians.

And if we get the physicians convinced we are one big step further.

I think the politicans can also be urged by any attention of the media.

Once 15,000 signatures we get a press release and the Flemish Parliament

(Commission) will have to look into it thoroughly and " one of us " have to be

heard in the Commission.

I know 15,000 signatures is a lot, it's pretty impossible, but ask me again in 1

year okey and I'll let you know,

If we don't get 15,000 signatures we still can have some attention from media

with a few thousand signatures, and every person to whom we ask to sign the

petition will receive an info-sheet regards dect and wifi.

Look, if I'm honest (and I'm not always honest here!) I'm VERY pessimistic

regards emf and the future. It's funny but I was just e-mailing on this with

somebody else here (in private!). I may be wrong it's difficult to forecast the

future! but I think most likely it will only get worse the amount of emf the

next 50 years or so, for the reasons you mention, it's bloody complicated (the

non-measurable longitudinal waves), technology just gets worse 3G, 4G/... (all

this to compensate for the rising amount of smart phones), there's one heck a

lot of money behind it in the economy and also directly in governments pockets,

and a lot of other reasons I'm not gonna mention...

BUT I just have to do something. I look at it as a hobby. As a release of some

frustration?! And any movement always have to start somewhere. So in the end I

think every effort is useful, how unsignificant it may be... although it may

take much longer until harmful emf will be lower...

.

>

> Hello

>

> I am sorry, but such actions do not result in effects.

> Sure, the awareness under the population grows, but not with the decision

makers.

> Beperkdestraling.org does not have its priorities in the right order, and they

do not fully understand our problemacy.

>

> The main point everybody should realise is, *why do we want to lower the EMF

levels?*

> For lowering these levels, the cooperation of our politicians is needed. Only

they can change the regulations. The providers are not to blame, they work

within the guide lines.

>

> Again: *why do we want to lower the EMF levels?*

> It is because we fear health complications.

> But the authorities see this as only fear and underbelly feelings.

> It is not substantiated. There is not enough proof of that.

> The only *proof* comes from the Health Councils, who state that there is *no

reason for concern*.

>

> In the Netherlands we do have those 5 *nutcases*, who can be seen on

television, and who claim that they are electrosensitive, but cannot prove that.

> That is the main point. Even a thousand people who may be electrosenstive, are

a negligible factor, as seen by the authorities. (The officials even refuse

blatantly to examine them.)

> A central complaints desk does not seem possible, because every action group

has its own policy.

> So, there are no official figures of electrosensitives. We can only guess.

> (With others we calculated in the Netherlands and came to the conclusion that

a figure of five thousand persons would be the total amount of concerned

people.)

>

> Such a figure is negligible for the politicians.

> A petition gives only a figure of discomfort with certain civilians, but no

cause for concern.

>

> Again: *why do we want to lower the EMF levels?*

> Our health is at risk. But for that we do need proof. Hard proof, and that is

something we do not have.

> Electrosensitivity is an illness.

> And only physicians are competent to give statements about health.

> Not engineers, not physicists, not biologists, not salesmen, not philosophers,

but only physicians.

> So we have to concentrate on the physicians and docters, and let them speak

for us.

>

> We must nourish and cherish those physicians who are willing to stick out

their neck in public.

> In Belgium, beperkdestraling.org had launched a petition about wifi, which was

among others also supported by two well-known belgian professors.

> In a newspaper article originated by beperkdestraling.org, another article

appeared where those two professors were slandered, ridiculed, affronted and

insulted. Many feel, that it was the obligation of Beperkdestraling.org into

undertaking legal action against this infamous slander, but they did not.

> So these two professors wil be lost for any movement, and they will think

twice for supporting any action again.

>

> As I see in other countries, protest demonstrations and petitions against

authorities do not result in any change.

>

> And Belgium takes a different position in Europe.

> Where most countries apply the ICNIRP guidelines, as in the Netherlands, the

dutch Health Council advises much higher guide lines than those of the ICNIRP,

because they *feel that they can better read* than other scientists.

> In Belgium, there the Health Council has advised for many years for GSM 900

(ICNIRP 41 V/m) a 3 V/m, which the belgian government has adopted 20,6 V/m for

many years. The county of Brussels has adopted this 3 V/m.

> The Flanders county has adopted now also 3 V/m per antenna for GSM900, 4,12

V/m for GSM1800 and 4,34 V/m for 3G.

> In a sneaky way, the flemish ministry has added a cumulative guidline for

GSM900 20,6 V/m, for GSM1800 29,1 V/m and for 3G 30,7 V/m.

> Nobody realised in Belgium what this implicates.

> People in the street would think; 20,6 devided by 3 V/m will give a maximum of

7 GSM 900 antennas at 3 V/m.

> Such a calculation is false. 20,6 V/m means 47 GSM900 antennas at 3 V/m each,

and 50 antennas of GSM1800 or 3G.

>

> Now, some groups want 0,6 V/m.

> In my opinion, that will not happen, till the belgian Health Councel also

advises 0,6 V/m.

>

> So, the recommendations of the Health Councils seem to be the most important

parts in our struggle.

>

> In the Netherlands a legal action is running against the health Council,

because members do have *conflicts of interest*.

> One member has an advisary company to the telecom industry, and another is

member of the ICNIRP.

>

> So, wake up your physicians, enlighten them, and let them give their

conclusions.

> Only when persons in a white coat, supplied with the necessary titles claim

that one may get sick from EMF, the politicians will listen.

>

>

> Anecdote (from Germany)

>

> Mr. Niemann, also previous Siemens Ingenieur, and elektrosensible, said around

1993, that in Bonn a " well-known Symposium " was held, at that time

electrosensibility could not be denied , and they deliberated, how many % of the

population could be electrosensible, and they concluded about 4 - 7%, and

concluded that as neglectable.

>

> Let us take as realistic comparison our little friends, the mites. When in the

whole of Germany a 100 persons will get meningitis, after they have been bitten

by a mite, many physicians want direct to inject 80 million as also with the

supposed birds flu - and what with the pandemonium Elektrosmog?

> 1993 4-7% ca. 3.000.000 persons continuous ill - nothing, neglectable small!

>

> A revolt or uprising like in Egypt, Tunesia, Lybia, in order to overthrow

ministry LNE in Flanders seems far from realistic.

> Most people do not want to get rid of their *toys*. They even give them to

their youngest children!

> The problem is not with the mobile phone masts, but lies in the extensive use

of the mobile phones.

>

> The providers are not our enemy. It is the lawmakers.

> And the urgence to change the law can only be given by the physicians.

>

> Greetings,

> Claessens

> member Verband Baubiologie

> www.milieuziektes.nl

> www.milieuziektes.be

> www.hetbitje.nl

> checked by Norton

>

>

> Petition: the least we can do is sign it? Thanks...

>

>

> Hi,

>

> Pretty soon, we're starting a petition in Flanders (Brussels/Belgium/Europe)

against emf (lower emissions, against 4G,...),

>

> We will go on the streets for signatures + also on-line petition-site

(linked with the Flemish anti emf organisation beperkdestraling.org),

>

> The site will be built by Gert Droessaert, who already made a petition-site

against high decibels and raising the awareness on long term effects,

>

> Actually long term effects from too high decibels seem partially similar to

these of emf, in both cases central nervous system is affected,

>

> Thank you Gert for setting up our petition site as well, I think the least

we can do is sign your petition?

>

> To everybody who reads this, please sign on Gert's petition site against

outrageously high decibels, you can vote on:

> http://www.gertdroessaert.be/petitiedecibel_sign.php?l=en

>

> You only have to fill in your name and your e-mail and that's it!

>

> And please forward this to YOUR friends/family as well,

>

> Thanks a lot,

> greetings,

> .

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sure, we have to undertake action.

But in the right direction. And together.

That is a hard and very difficult way to go.

But it is, in my opinion, the only way.

We have to concentrate on our physicans, where the most part is unwilling to

accept our grieves.

In 2002 the Freiburger Appell appeared, but I was very disappointed, that a year

later, it collapsed totally.

In the Netherlands the NPS started the Medical Appeal, but after they delivered

50 signatures to the dutch Health Council, it collapsed, and the man behind it

found the netherlands too small for his interests, so he started the IEMFA, more

internationally orientated, but with no results whatsoever.

I have seen so many Burgerinitiative start in Germany, which started with a lot

of energy, but which collapsed also after a while. If I look at their websites,

the last entries are from 2003 or 2004.

I see so many groups run to the courts, and backed out. Then they went to the

Suppreme Court, and left there also with their tales between the legs.

The judges rule all the time:

1. Do the providers work according to the rules? Yes.

2. Are there health consequences to be expected? No, says the Health Council.

So the claims are dismissed (except when building regulations do play a role).

I see a black future.

Children are getting dumb, agressive and depressive.

In order to pay for their phone bills, they lent money.

But so many children are now so overloaned, that they are registered with the

Loan-Registry as Bad-Payer.

Those teens who cannot manage their finances, will get married some time later

and start a family.

How in heaven do they manage their finances?

There are so many sick children nowadays, with illnesses we did not know decades

before.

ADHD is very common now.

In Germany, the daily dosis for Ritalin was 0,3 million in 1990, it was 25,8

million in 2004.

Remember, 60 % of the customers of the mobile phone companies are children.

Some scientists have found, that certain DNA damages with girls are not repaired

by the body, and the results will come to the surface after some 4 generations

later. Think about that.

If we continue with living as we do now, the biblical *End of Times* will come

soon.

Sooner than many suppose.

Think about the bees, birds and trees.

I am sorry to sound pessimistic, but I am now twelve years following this track.

And in my opinion, many actions were just spilled energy.

I follow a great many international forums, and it is a relief that Marc has set

up this one, where electrosensitives can write unhindered their experiences and

get good advice, without being harassed by unbelievers and sceptics.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton

Petition: the least we can do is sign it? Thanks...

>

>

> Hi,

>

> Pretty soon, we're starting a petition in Flanders

(Brussels/Belgium/Europe) against emf (lower emissions, against 4G,...),

>

> We will go on the streets for signatures + also on-line petition-site

(linked with the Flemish anti emf organisation beperkdestraling.org),

>

> The site will be built by Gert Droessaert, who already made a

petition-site against high decibels and raising the awareness on long term

effects,

>

> Actually long term effects from too high decibels seem partially similar

to these of emf, in both cases central nervous system is affected,

>

> Thank you Gert for setting up our petition site as well, I think the least

we can do is sign your petition?

>

> To everybody who reads this, please sign on Gert's petition site against

outrageously high decibels, you can vote on:

> http://www.gertdroessaert.be/petitiedecibel_sign.php?l=en

>

> You only have to fill in your name and your e-mail and that's it!

>

> And please forward this to YOUR friends/family as well,

>

> Thanks a lot,

> greetings,

> .

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

So how do we proceed? How do we get the physicians to understand & back us?

Naturopathic physicians seem to get it but mainstream medicine is stubborn.

 

I, also, am fearful of the next generations & their health. Loni

From: charles <charles@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Petition: the least we can do is sign it? Thanks...

Date: Monday, February 28, 2011, 9:23 AM

 

Sure, we have to undertake action.

But in the right direction. And together.

That is a hard and very difficult way to go.

But it is, in my opinion, the only way.

We have to concentrate on our physicans, where the most part is unwilling to

accept our grieves.

In 2002 the Freiburger Appell appeared, but I was very disappointed, that a year

later, it collapsed totally.

In the Netherlands the NPS started the Medical Appeal, but after they delivered

50 signatures to the dutch Health Council, it collapsed, and the man behind it

found the netherlands too small for his interests, so he started the IEMFA, more

internationally orientated, but with no results whatsoever.

I have seen so many Burgerinitiative start in Germany, which started with a lot

of energy, but which collapsed also after a while. If I look at their websites,

the last entries are from 2003 or 2004.

I see so many groups run to the courts, and backed out. Then they went to the

Suppreme Court, and left there also with their tales between the legs.

The judges rule all the time:

1. Do the providers work according to the rules? Yes.

2. Are there health consequences to be expected? No, says the Health Council.

So the claims are dismissed (except when building regulations do play a role).

I see a black future.

Children are getting dumb, agressive and depressive.

In order to pay for their phone bills, they lent money.

But so many children are now so overloaned, that they are registered with the

Loan-Registry as Bad-Payer.

Those teens who cannot manage their finances, will get married some time later

and start a family.

How in heaven do they manage their finances?

There are so many sick children nowadays, with illnesses we did not know decades

before.

ADHD is very common now.

In Germany, the daily dosis for Ritalin was 0,3 million in 1990, it was 25,8

million in 2004.

Remember, 60 % of the customers of the mobile phone companies are children.

Some scientists have found, that certain DNA damages with girls are not repaired

by the body, and the results will come to the surface after some 4 generations

later. Think about that.

If we continue with living as we do now, the biblical *End of Times* will come

soon.

Sooner than many suppose.

Think about the bees, birds and trees.

I am sorry to sound pessimistic, but I am now twelve years following this track.

And in my opinion, many actions were just spilled energy.

I follow a great many international forums, and it is a relief that Marc has set

up this one, where electrosensitives can write unhindered their experiences and

get good advice, without being harassed by unbelievers and sceptics.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton

Petition: the least we can do is sign it? Thanks...

>

>

> Hi,

>

> Pretty soon, we're starting a petition in Flanders (Brussels/Belgium/Europe)

against emf (lower emissions, against 4G,...),

>

> We will go on the streets for signatures + also on-line petition-site (linked

with the Flemish anti emf organisation beperkdestraling.org),

>

> The site will be built by Gert Droessaert, who already made a petition-site

against high decibels and raising the awareness on long term effects,

>

> Actually long term effects from too high decibels seem partially similar to

these of emf, in both cases central nervous system is affected,

>

> Thank you Gert for setting up our petition site as well, I think the least we

can do is sign your petition?

>

> To everybody who reads this, please sign on Gert's petition site against

outrageously high decibels, you can vote on:

> http://www.gertdroessaert.be/petitiedecibel_sign.php?l=en

>

> You only have to fill in your name and your e-mail and that's it!

>

> And please forward this to YOUR friends/family as well,

>

> Thanks a lot,

> greetings,

> .

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>