Re: EMF Blocking

[Guest guest]

>If foil only blocks RF radiation then what can you use to block emf say

>coming from your fridge?

You can use Mumetal, but a timer is much lower cost and more effective

http://www.lessemf.com/emf-appl.html#735

Emil

[Guest guest]

Thanks Emil. I think that the timer might be good to have anyway but the fridge

sits near the couch where I watch tv so I can't leave the fridge off for long

periods of time thus I need blocking.

 

Mumetal is pretty expensive isn't it. Does lessemf have something I could use?

 

Loni

 

From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@...>

Subject: Re: EMF Blocking

Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 9:52 AM

 

>If foil only blocks RF radiation then what can you use to block emf say

>coming from your fridge?

You can use Mumetal, but a timer is much lower cost and more effective

http://www.lessemf.com/emf-appl.html#735

Emil

[Guest guest]

>Thanks Emil. I think that the timer might be good to have anyway but the

>fridge sits near the couch where I watch tv so I can't leave the fridge off

>for long periods of time thus I need blocking. Mumetal is pretty expensive

>isn't it. Does lessemf have something I could use?

Yes, see Mag-Stop Plates http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html#277-0

Emil

[Guest guest]

Wow, those are pricey?  Does anything else less expensive block or is that the

only metal?

 

Loni

From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@...>

Subject: Re: EMF Blocking

Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 1:42 PM

 

>Thanks Emil. I think that the timer might be good to have anyway but the

>fridge sits near the couch where I watch tv so I can't leave the fridge off

>for long periods of time thus I need blocking. Mumetal is pretty expensive

>isn't it. Does lessemf have something I could use?

Yes, see Mag-Stop Plates http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html#277-0

Emil

[Guest guest]

Loni wrote:

> Wow, those are pricey? Does anything else less expensive block or is that the

only metal?

>

Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,

and blocking RF or wireless waves.

The only way to block magnetic fields that come from motors, like the

fridge, is very expensive and best used sparingly.

If on the other hand your fridge is the newest with internet connection

and RFID tag readers to email you when you need to buy milk, then your

best bet is to replace the fridge with old tech!!!

If the fridge is next to the couch, then I recommend redecorating.

Seriously. Move it across the room.

Six feet away, or move the couch.

[Guest guest]

Thanks ; answers my question!  Loni

> Wow, those are pricey? Does anything else less expensive block or is that the

only metal?

>

Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,

and blocking RF or wireless waves.

The only way to block magnetic fields that come from motors, like the

fridge, is very expensive and best used sparingly.

If on the other hand your fridge is the newest with internet connection

and RFID tag readers to email you when you need to buy milk, then your

best bet is to replace the fridge with old tech!!!

If the fridge is next to the couch, then I recommend redecorating.

Seriously. Move it across the room.

Six feet away, or move the couch.

[Guest guest]

,

While we are on the subject of refrigerators, I wanted to ask a couple

questions.  The arrangement of my apartment makes it such that I am within 1-4

feet of the refrigerator most of the time.  It is driving me crazy because it

cycles on and off every 20 minutes.  I timed it. 

I have tested this refrigerator with my Gauss Meter while the motor is running 

and it ranges from 3.0 - 8.5 mG in the front and 40.0-60.0mG in the back. 

While the motor is off cycling, the front measures about 1.0mG and the back

about 2.0mG.  What I have been doing is trying to move away from it while it is

cycling on.  But while I am sleeping on the floor, it is about six feet from me

and I seem to be having problems with it even though the Gauss Meter reading is

less than 1.0 in the area.  One of the symptoms I have been noticing is a

fluttering in my eardrum. like the eardrum is spasming.

I have covered myself underneath on the floor and on top of my covers with

Staticoat Material grounded on one edge of each piece to the outlet with an

alligator clip plug.  But is this adequate to keep out the magnetic fields

while I am sleeping?  Maybe I am getting something from wires in the floor or

something travelling through the floor?  The Gauss readings in the sleeping

area are less then 1.0mG. 

What fabrics are good at blocking magnetic fields?

C;

superdrove

> Wow, those are pricey? Does anything else less expensive block or is that the

only metal?

>

Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,

and blocking RF or wireless waves.

The only way to block magnetic fields that come from motors, like the

fridge, is very expensive and best used sparingly.

If on the other hand your fridge is the newest with internet connection

and RFID tag readers to email you when you need to buy milk, then your

best bet is to replace the fridge with old tech!!!

If the fridge is next to the couch, then I recommend redecorating.

Seriously. Move it across the room.

Six feet away, or move the couch.

[Guest guest]

>I have covered myself underneath on the floor and on top of my covers with

>Staticoat Material grounded on one edge of each piece to the outlet with an

>alligator clip plug. But is this adequate to keep out the magnetic fields

>while I am sleeping? Maybe I am getting something from wires in the floor

>or something travelling through the floor? The Gauss readings in the

>sleeping area are less then 1.0mG.

>What fabrics are good at blocking magnetic fields?

There are no fabrics which can shield low frequency magnetic fields. The

shielding fabrics will shield radiowaves.

Emil

[Guest guest]

Hi,

> The arrangement of my apartment makes it such that I am within 1-4 feet of the

refrigerator most of the time.

Oh no, how large is your apartment. Sounds like the fridge is in the

center, or it is a small room.

> It is driving me crazy because it cycles on and off every 20 minutes.

>

I don't doubt it.

> I have tested this refrigerator with my Gauss Meter while the motor is running

and it ranges from 3.0 - 8.5 mG in the front and 40.0-60.0mG in the back.

>

There's the motor.

> What I have been doing is trying to move away from it while it is cycling on.

>

Good.

> even though the Gauss Meter reading is less than 1.0 in the area.

Background levels should be 0.15 mG or less. I have trouble with 1.0 mG

myself.

> One of the symptoms I have been noticing is a fluttering in my eardrum. like

the eardrum is spasming.

>

>

Affecting your nervous system perhaps.

Is it like tinitus? or something more physical?

> is this adequate to keep out the magnetic fields

No.

Shielding fabrics only block RF. Not magnetic.

The only way to block magnetic is with Mu-Metal. It is the specific rare

metals in layers that accomplish the blocking, so there is no way to

make it into a fabric.

Need a different apartment. It is sad the only way to feel better is to

move. At least you're only renting, right?

Sounds similar to the first travel trailer I bought in 1995. Traded it

in, after about 2 months. Tough learning curve.

--

> Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,

>

> and blocking RF or wireless waves.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Affecting your nervous system perhaps.

Is it like tinitus? or something more physical?

It is not tinnitus, or ringing in my ears, it is a spasm of the eardrum like it

is reverberating at a high rate of speed. 

The only way to block magnetic is with Mu-Metal. It is the specific rare

metals in layers that accomplish the blocking, so there is no way to

make it into a fabric.

Well, that is unfortunate because in order to block the refrigerator, I would

have to encase it on 3 or 4 sides with the metal or else buy one huge piece and

move it around to whatever direction I would be sitting in.  In the living room

my back is to the motor so I could put the Mu Metal easily against that wall.

But when in the kitchen and when sleeping, the front of the refer faces me and I

would have to have a piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the

magnetic radiation from bending around the back towards the front.  But, a

piece of Mu Metal large enough to do that would cost about $500 x 2 = $1,000. 

I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are just

as bad as the old ones.

So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal?  Do you suggest

just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you

might be?

C.

Superdrove

Need a different apartment. It is sad the only way to feel better is to

move. At least you're only renting, right?

Sounds similar to the first travel trailer I bought in 1995. Traded it

in, after about 2 months. Tough learning curve.

--

> Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,

>

> and blocking RF or wireless waves.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

C.a.b. wrote:

> piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the magnetic radiation

from bending around the back towards the front.

Magnetic fields move in a circular pattern. Toroids actually. Not in a

straight line from the center.

So it is best to avoid calling it a radiation.

> I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are

just as bad as the old ones.

>

Not always, but in this case it is probably safer to say they all put

out an unwanted magnetic field, as they all have motors. Except the

amonia-based propane burning models for travel trailers and off grid use.

> So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal? Do you suggest

just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you

might be?

>

It is not that simple. One flat sheet, won't cut off very many of the

circular bands, unless the magnetic field is smaller than the mu-metal

sheet. The magnetic force comes AROUND the (fridge/motor/magnet) from

one pole to the other. For mu-metal to be effective, it needs to

encompass the magnetic field without creasing, or sharp bends. (It must

be kept smooth.)

Then the thickness of the mu-metal will also determine how much of the

field is attenuated. I get about 50% reduction with the 0.004 " thick

foil I got wrapped around an AC motor, and in another little project I

made a half cylinder around a transformer. The literature says up to 75%

reduction with one layer.

I still find avoidance is easier.

[Guest guest]

Wow, mu metal is complicated. I guess this whole illness is complicated.

 

I was in a remote area staying few years ago and they had an old fridge and it

did not bother me. But the electricity was not dirty. None of it bothered me up

there.

 

Loni

> piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the magnetic radiation

from bending around the back towards the front.

Magnetic fields move in a circular pattern. Toroids actually. Not in a

straight line from the center.

So it is best to avoid calling it a radiation.

> I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are

just as bad as the old ones.

>

Not always, but in this case it is probably safer to say they all put

out an unwanted magnetic field, as they all have motors. Except the

amonia-based propane burning models for travel trailers and off grid use.

> So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal? Do you suggest

just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you

might be?

>

It is not that simple. One flat sheet, won't cut off very many of the

circular bands, unless the magnetic field is smaller than the mu-metal

sheet. The magnetic force comes AROUND the (fridge/motor/magnet) from

one pole to the other. For mu-metal to be effective, it needs to

encompass the magnetic field without creasing, or sharp bends. (It must

be kept smooth.)

Then the thickness of the mu-metal will also determine how much of the

field is attenuated. I get about 50% reduction with the 0.004 " thick

foil I got wrapped around an AC motor, and in another little project I

made a half cylinder around a transformer. The literature says up to 75%

reduction with one layer.

I still find avoidance is easier.

[Guest guest]

Oh I take that back. The computer did put off emf that I couldn't handle but the

fridge was fine and the elect. from the walls was fine. Loni

> piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the magnetic radiation

from bending around the back towards the front.

Magnetic fields move in a circular pattern. Toroids actually. Not in a

straight line from the center.

So it is best to avoid calling it a radiation.

> I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are

just as bad as the old ones.

>

Not always, but in this case it is probably safer to say they all put

out an unwanted magnetic field, as they all have motors. Except the

amonia-based propane burning models for travel trailers and off grid use.

> So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal? Do you suggest

just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you

might be?

>

It is not that simple. One flat sheet, won't cut off very many of the

circular bands, unless the magnetic field is smaller than the mu-metal

sheet. The magnetic force comes AROUND the (fridge/motor/magnet) from

one pole to the other. For mu-metal to be effective, it needs to

encompass the magnetic field without creasing, or sharp bends. (It must

be kept smooth.)

Then the thickness of the mu-metal will also determine how much of the

field is attenuated. I get about 50% reduction with the 0.004 " thick

foil I got wrapped around an AC motor, and in another little project I

made a half cylinder around a transformer. The literature says up to 75%

reduction with one layer.

I still find avoidance is easier.

[Guest guest]

Loni wrote:

> Wow, mu metal is complicated.

I would say magnetic fields are more complicated, but i think the method

to block magnetics didn't exist before some high-tech discoveries and

methods.

Those with a single axis gauss meter, (directional), may notice that

aiming the meter directly at a motor or power line, does not always get

the highest reading at that location. Rotating the meter, like a cone,

until a higher reading is found, shows the shape of the toroid, and that

it is not linear. More like it travels along a sphere (oversimplified),

so finding the right angle to block that field, is indeed complicated.

Trying to find a picture to better illustrate this...

http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/magnetics/diagrams/magflux.gif

In actuality what the mu metal is needing to do is CUT Across the field

lines.

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:46 PM Emil wrote:

There are no fabrics which can shield low frequency magnetic fields. The

shielding fabrics will shield radiowaves.

Then

On Tue, 9/20/11, S son <sandreas41@...> wrote:

The only way to block magnetic is with Mu-Metal. It is the specific rare 

metals in layers that accomplish the blocking, so there is no way to make it

into a fabric.

Well, it appears there is some misinformation out there from certain sites that

sell RF sheilding fabrics, which has caused me a bit of confusion.  Some of

these sites will say something like:  Grounding this fabric gives the added

benefit of shielding EMF's as well as RF.   Or, it is not necessary to ground

this fabric unless you want to shield EMF's too.  Well, EMF stands for Electro

Magnetic Fields.  So if they are only talking about shielding the Electro part

of EMF they should not imply that it is shielding the Magnetic part too.

Also,  Less EMF sells several products other than Mu Metal for shielding

Magnetic Fields.  Weather they are effective I do not know. 

But I am looking to shield the refrigerator motor, the front floor of my car,

and my body parts.   But, Mu Metal is way out of my price range of

afordability..

On the bottom of the page at http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html

there is a discussion of how to make a fabric that could be used to shield

magnetic fields by gluing Metglas Magnetic Shielding Film, onto shielding

fabric. http://www.lessemf.com/magnetic_shielding.html

It says that Metglas gets saturated easily and is best suited for when the

magnetic field is not strong, so obviously it would not work for refrigerator

motors, or vacuum or car floor, but I wonder if it would work for a mat under my

mattress on the floor to shield from wires in the floor, or to tape onto a

chinese 3 panel screen to put up as a barrier in front of my sleeping area, or

as a hat?  

And then there is Giron at http://www.lessemf.com/magnetic_shielding.html

GIRON at $44.95 per foot instead of about $225 per sq foot for Mu Metal sounds

like a possible alternative. 

It says Giron cuts with snips, can be used flat or molded into shapes. Is

suitable for small shields on magnets, motors, speakers and appliances such as

refrigerators, vacuum cleaners etc. Also great for lining car floor or firewall.

Perfect for full or partial wall / floor shielding in rooms too! Could even be

used to make a (heavy weight) vest to shield a person's torso! Works with AC or

DC magnetic fields (0-1000 Hz).

So do you think these materials are an alternative to Mu Metal that would also

be affordable and effective for blocking Magnetic Fields? 

Also, do these materials have to be grounded if I wear them or otherwise?

Thanks, I would appreciate any input.

C.

Superdrove

I still find avoidance is easier.

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.

[Guest guest]

So putting a slab across the front of fridge might not do the trick?! Loni

> Wow, mu metal is complicated.

I would say magnetic fields are more complicated, but i think the method

to block magnetics didn't exist before some high-tech discoveries and

methods.

Those with a single axis gauss meter, (directional), may notice that

aiming the meter directly at a motor or power line, does not always get

the highest reading at that location. Rotating the meter, like a cone,

until a higher reading is found, shows the shape of the toroid, and that

it is not linear. More like it travels along a sphere (oversimplified),

so finding the right angle to block that field, is indeed complicated.

Trying to find a picture to better illustrate this...

http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/magnetics/diagrams/magflux.gif

In actuality what the mu metal is needing to do is CUT Across the field

lines.

[Guest guest]

Loni wrote:

> So putting a slab across the front of fridge might not do the trick?! Loni

>

Can you see the shape of the magnetic field? Is the motor mounted on the

left side or the right? Is it oriented vertically or horizontally? Is it

made in China or Mexico?

This is the stuff that drives researchers mad, or uh, happy for a long job.

Why does my 20+ year old Frigidaire have a uneven magnetic bubble around

it? It spikes out on the front quarters, but is low directly in the

front of the door. And of course it is very high in back.

I don't have the patience, or the health, to be playing around with

trying to see how this field is oriented, and thus how best to cut the

lines of force, and create a shielded pocket. It's far easier to avoid

the (fridge/transformer/fan/fill-in-the-blank). At least in a large

enough house it is.

If the " slab " is in the right spot, it might do the trick. Simply too

many variables.

[Guest guest]

C.a.b. wrote:

> EMF stands for Electro Magnetic Fields. So if they are only talking about

shielding the Electro part of EMF they should not imply that it is shielding the

Magnetic part too.

>

>

I think we are having a problem with terminology. What name best fits

which new technology?

First everything was EMF. Then wireless needed to be clarified with RF EMF.

Now the term EMR is becoming more used, as when the field sends out

waves for miles, is it still a field? Not really.

At the antenna, the waves are created with the same electricity that

when wound around a coil creates magnetic motors, but instead of a

steady amperage of electricity being drawn, it is chopped up into pulses

of on and off at a specific rate, or frequency. But that magnetic effect

is near-field, only really close to the emitting antenna.

So In this case, the Magnetic part of the name refers to the process of

creating the RF, and not inferring the magnetic field extends for miles.

As to the products you are inquiring about, I'll step back and let

somebody more experienced with them answer.

[Guest guest]

I might be wrong about that. The magnetic component may indeed travel

for miles, but in logrthmic fashion it drops off rapidly with distance.

To quote from a smarter book: " Power flux density (also called

electromagnetic field, measured in W/m2) really consists of two separate

fields: The electric field (measured in V/m) and the magnetic field

(measured in A/m). However, as these do not exist separately anymore at

high frequencies, their separate indication is not really interesting

for RF exposure. "

The distance at which the " near-field " can be calculated is given as a

formula, and is dependant on the frequency. Speed of light (C in m/s) /

frequency (Hz) = wavelength (m)

Then multiply Wavelength x 10 = close-up range, inside of which,

measurements are not accurately possible.

For a 900 MHz cell phone, that is a wavelength of 0.33 meters, so inside

of 3.3 meters (10.8 feet), the magnetic and electric fields are *not*

coupled to each other, and must be measured separately.

Still learning...

S son wrote:

> So In this case, the Magnetic part of the name refers to the process

> of creating the RF, and not inferring the magnetic field extends for

> miles.

>

[Guest guest]

Many years ago, this was explained clearly on my smarter website starting at

Pagina100.html

I have also explained in layman's words which faults were made with the

TNO-Cofam study.

Here they placed the test persons in the near field, without measuring the

magnetical component.

Look also at: http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina301.html

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton

Re: EMF Blocking

I might be wrong about that. The magnetic component may indeed travel

for miles, but in logrthmic fashion it drops off rapidly with distance.

To quote from a smarter book: " Power flux density (also called

electromagnetic field, measured in W/m2) really consists of two separate

fields: The electric field (measured in V/m) and the magnetic field

(measured in A/m). However, as these do not exist separately anymore at

high frequencies, their separate indication is not really interesting

for RF exposure. "

The distance at which the " near-field " can be calculated is given as a

formula, and is dependant on the frequency. Speed of light (C in m/s) /

frequency (Hz) = wavelength (m)

Then multiply Wavelength x 10 = close-up range, inside of which,

measurements are not accurately possible.

For a 900 MHz cell phone, that is a wavelength of 0.33 meters, so inside

of 3.3 meters (10.8 feet), the magnetic and electric fields are *not*

coupled to each other, and must be measured separately.

Still learning...

S son wrote:

> So In this case, the Magnetic part of the name refers to the process

> of creating the RF, and not inferring the magnetic field extends for

> miles.

>

------------------------------------