Re: The correct sequence of detoxification - what is it?

[Guest guest]

> 1) Alkalize myself with more alkaline forming foods

That seems reasonable, although I wonder about what exactly

people mean when they say " alkalize themselves " , as there

are various parts of the body that are healthiest when they

are acidic -- the stomach and small intestines during

digestion are good examples.

> 2) Do a short water fast

I'd skip that step -- you've probably got too many toxins in

you already, and you should be taking things to bind to them

and support your body in dealing with them. A water fast

will just let them dump into your bloodstream and make

you feel terrible.

> 3) Take a gut-healing formula

Certainly people claim this is good, although the ones I

tried never made much difference.

> 4) Take anti-candida supplements, be it Oil of Oregano, garlic,

> coconut, etc.

I did badly on garlic and coconut -- you might want to add

probiotics and grapefruit seed extract to that list.

> 7) Liver flush (a la Hulda 's Olive Oil, epsom salts, etc.)

Ugh. That brings up some really unpleasant memories... :-(

I suppose some people are helped by this, but I gave up on

it before I noticed any improvements.

> 9) While going after Lyme, try taking Modifilan (brown seaweed

> extract) and perhaps other toxin/bio-toxin/metal binding agents to

> help with possible die-off reaction

And if you cannot tolerate modifilan, there are certainly alternatives,

like activated charcoal, bentonite, apple pectin, etc.

I'd say that you'd do metal detox all by itself, and not just an

adjunct to going after Lyme.

> Throughout all this I'd be trying to eat well, take other general

> detoxing agents such as sprouted broccoli seed, burdock/dandelion/etc.

> tinctures, and so on.

Good ideas, although I don't know how helpful it actually is. It

seems that people can eat really healthy and still stay ill...

Marc

[Guest guest]

I would add some probiotic food such as 'real' sauerkraut, yogurt or

kefir.

>

> It seems that when dealing with EMF issues, detoxification and the

> elimination of pathogenic organisms plays a very important role.

>

> I've tried a little bit of this, a little bit of that - my approach

> has been very sporadic, and I'm not a position which affords me any

> supplement known to man, but I'd like to try to do this a bit more

> logically and sequentially.

>

> I'm going to outline what I think would be a good sequence, and I'd

> like to have some input from you guys about what you think of it:

>

> 1) Alkalize myself with more alkaline forming foods

>

> 2) Do a short water fast

>

> 3) Take a gut-healing formula (quite sure I have some compromised

> intestinal permeability going on, given my reactions to food)

>

> 4) Take anti-candida supplements, be it Oil of Oregano, garlic,

> coconut, etc. (I say with certainty that I've had yeast issues most

of

> my life and still may)

>

> 5) Kidney cleanse (a la Edgar Cayce using watermelon seed tea

>

> 6) Parasite cleanse (black walnut, cloves, et al)

>

> 7) Liver flush (a la Hulda 's Olive Oil, epsom salts, etc.)

>

> 8) Go after suspected Lyme/co-infections, take note of any

improvement

> or herxheimer reaction (worked on farms, recall a strange rash, been

> through the woods off trails plenty of times, and given its ability

to

> imitate, what, three hundred diseases or so, and some people's

> experience with it and ES, I figure it's worth a try)

>

> 9) While going after Lyme, try taking Modifilan (brown seaweed

> extract) and perhaps other toxin/bio-toxin/metal binding agents to

> help with possible die-off reaction

>

> Throughout all this I'd be trying to eat well, take other general

> detoxing agents such as sprouted broccoli seed,

burdock/dandelion/etc.

> tinctures, and so on.

>

> So! What do you think? Any thoughts welcome.

>

> Cheers,

>

> R.

>

[Guest guest]

> I would add some probiotic food such as 'real' sauerkraut, yogurt or

> kefir.

Yes, those can actually be better than many probiotic supplements,

although I think in my own case I gain weight whenever I eat

dairy products (no matter how " low fat " they claim to be).

For supplements, I like " Primal Defense " , which seems strong

enough to counter yeast problems.

Marc

[Guest guest]

Hey Marc. True - when I say alkalize, I just mean eating more

alkaline forming foods, particularly vegetables, not necessarily alter

my entire body's ph.

I've tried something called IntestiNew by Renew Life - it helped in

the past - less skin rashes from random foods, but I think maybe I

fell off again after/should have taken something like it longer.

Could have caused more candida problems when I ate too many

raisins/drank too much rum here and there, yeesh. Not to sound like a

lush or nothin', but I think I react worse to alcohol than some

people, especially if my system's not balanced.

Regarding the metal detox/Lyme - I recall you saying that Modifilan

wasn't for you - I only got one bottle to start with, so I'll see how

it goes. The other things you suggested sound gentle enough. Have

you heard of product called " Metal Magic " ? It's a tincture of Cilantro

and Chlorella -

http://www.baselinenutritionals.com/index.php?display=product & view=category & cat=\

2 & products_ID=16

-does it sound too risky/hardcore to you?

-The first time I ate a spoonful of coconut oil I felt incredibly ill.

I turned ghostly white, felt like I had to vomit and my heart rate

went up to 180 or something. But that was the only time. Mind you, I

just cook with it now, not eat it by the spoonful, though I'm sure

I've consumed the equivalent in finished dishes. Can't say I've felt

ill from it since that one time. Ditto for garlic, though if I chew

it too incompletely, it can upset my stomach. I remember the

Grapefruit Seed Extract - blech! Effective for some.

As for probiotics vs. fermented food - I've tried both, but I think I

need to do it longer term.

The liver flush: Er, care to elaborate upon the bad memories? Or

not, if you don't want. I thought it'd be something easy and cheap

enough to try at home.

I know, I feel frustrated that I don't always feel as good as I think

I should given that I eat better than probably eighty percent of the

town I live in...a very rough observation of what I see people put

into their shopping carts! Mind you, I don't know how they feel. And

some of them look very unhealthy.

I think some of us just have to make a greater effort because of

predispositions, other circumstances, etc.

Thanks! More thoughts welcome.

R.

>

> > 1) Alkalize myself with more alkaline forming foods

>

> That seems reasonable, although I wonder about what exactly

> people mean when they say " alkalize themselves " , as there

> are various parts of the body that are healthiest when they

> are acidic -- the stomach and small intestines during

> digestion are good examples.

>

> > 2) Do a short water fast

>

> I'd skip that step -- you've probably got too many toxins in

> you already, and you should be taking things to bind to them

> and support your body in dealing with them. A water fast

> will just let them dump into your bloodstream and make

> you feel terrible.

>

> > 3) Take a gut-healing formula

>

> Certainly people claim this is good, although the ones I

> tried never made much difference.

>

> > 4) Take anti-candida supplements, be it Oil of Oregano, garlic,

> > coconut, etc.

>

> I did badly on garlic and coconut -- you might want to add

> probiotics and grapefruit seed extract to that list.

>

> > 7) Liver flush (a la Hulda 's Olive Oil, epsom salts, etc.)

>

> Ugh. That brings up some really unpleasant memories... :-(

> I suppose some people are helped by this, but I gave up on

> it before I noticed any improvements.

>

> > 9) While going after Lyme, try taking Modifilan (brown seaweed

> > extract) and perhaps other toxin/bio-toxin/metal binding agents to

> > help with possible die-off reaction

>

> And if you cannot tolerate modifilan, there are certainly alternatives,

> like activated charcoal, bentonite, apple pectin, etc.

>

> I'd say that you'd do metal detox all by itself, and not just an

> adjunct to going after Lyme.

>

> > Throughout all this I'd be trying to eat well, take other general

> > detoxing agents such as sprouted broccoli seed, burdock/dandelion/etc.

> > tinctures, and so on.

>

> Good ideas, although I don't know how helpful it actually is. It

> seems that people can eat really healthy and still stay ill...

>

> Marc

>

[Guest guest]

> Hey Marc. True - when I say alkalize, I just mean eating more

> alkaline forming foods, particularly vegetables

Eating more vegetables is probably something we should all do... :-)

And yes, my questioning alkalizing is a bit odd, as I've purchased

several supplements for that very purpose. I do however note that

an alkaline environment in the digestive tract is not good, so one

has to be careful there.

> Regarding the metal detox/Lyme - I recall you saying that Modifilan

> wasn't for you - I only got one bottle to start with, so I'll see how

> it goes. The other things you suggested sound gentle enough. Have

> you heard of product called " Metal Magic " ? It's a tincture of Cilantro

> and Chlorella -

Hmmm, I've never heard of that... I have however taken thousands of

dollars worth of " NDF " over the years, which has chlorella and

cilantro in it. Seems beneficial enough, but with the amount

I've taken I would have expected to have been completely free

of metal problems by now (Although for all I know, it's been the

NDF that has allowed me to progress as far as I have over the years)

> -The first time I ate a spoonful of coconut oil I felt incredibly ill.

I had an odd reaction to coconut oil. It was not immediate, but

after about a month my legs got very weak, like they could no

longer support my body weight. My nutritionist advised me to

stop the coconut oil and instead use flax oil, and the leg problem

went away.

> The liver flush: Er, care to elaborate upon the bad memories?

Well, it involved vomiting in the toilet in the middle of the night...

those liver flushes can really stir up those toxins. I've seen some

people advise just taking a very small amount of the mixture

prior to every meal, so you're not overwhelming the system,

but helping to clear things slowly over time. Not sure if that

works, though.

Oh, and some things missing on your list -- adrenal support and

thyroid support. I think adrenal support is extremely helpful.

Marc

[Guest guest]

I am of the opinion that no chelation therapy should be attempted until

the intestines and other organs are strong.

I think starting with a colon cleanse is OK and then boosting the

system with probiotics, butyrate, cholostrum, Phosphatidyl Choline,

etc. to make sure there is no leaky gut and the immune system is

strong.

Then, gently support and flush the liver and kidneys BEFORE trashing

them with a flood of heavy metals, viruses, toxins, chemicals, etc.

I am of the belief that it is more the virus/bacteria category eating

the myelin sheath (auto-immune) fed by heavy metals/toxins that leads

to ES. To flood the system with a detox will support the growth of the

virus/bacteria load and spread it wider and deeper and weaken the body

further.

If a person is just starting a healing regimen they are probably very

weak energetically/ physically as well as their cell walls, blood brain

barrier, intestinal walls, etc. The body must be able to handle a detox

or it will get worse.

So, no detox until one is strong. Oh, one more thing, no detox until

all metal has been removed correctly from the mouth.

Here are mercury free dentists that will remove the mercury correctly

without you getting your brain, nerves, lungs fried.

http://www.holisticdentalnetwork.com/directory.php#USA

Here are dentists that won't put mercury in your mouth.

http://mercuryfreedentists.com/listings.asp?StateName=California

my 2 cents,

On Dec 22, 2008, at 9:24 PM, rticleone wrote:

> Hey Marc. True - when I say alkalize, I just mean eating more

> alkaline forming foods, particularly vegetables, not necessarily alter

> my entire body's ph.

>

> I've tried something called IntestiNew by Renew Life - it helped in

> the past - less skin rashes from random foods, but I think maybe I

> fell off again after/should have taken something like it longer.

> Could have caused more candida problems when I ate too many

> raisins/drank too much rum here and there, yeesh. Not to sound like a

> lush or nothin', but I think I react worse to alcohol than some

> people, especially if my system's not balanced.

>

> Regarding the metal detox/Lyme - I recall you saying that Modifilan

> wasn't for you - I only got one bottle to start with, so I'll see how

> it goes. The other things you suggested sound gentle enough. Have

> you heard of product called " Metal Magic " ? It's a tincture of Cilantro

> and Chlorella -

> http://www.baselinenutritionals.com/index.php?

> display=product & view=category & cat=2 & products_ID=16

>

> -does it sound too risky/hardcore to you?

>

> -The first time I ate a spoonful of coconut oil I felt incredibly ill.

> I turned ghostly white, felt like I had to vomit and my heart rate

> went up to 180 or something. But that was the only time. Mind you, I

> just cook with it now, not eat it by the spoonful, though I'm sure

> I've consumed the equivalent in finished dishes. Can't say I've felt

> ill from it since that one time. Ditto for garlic, though if I chew

> it too incompletely, it can upset my stomach. I remember the

> Grapefruit Seed Extract - blech! Effective for some.

>

> As for probiotics vs. fermented food - I've tried both, but I think I

> need to do it longer term.

>

> The liver flush: Er, care to elaborate upon the bad memories? Or

> not, if you don't want. I thought it'd be something easy and cheap

> enough to try at home.

>

> I know, I feel frustrated that I don't always feel as good as I think

> I should given that I eat better than probably eighty percent of the

> town I live in...a very rough observation of what I see people put

> into their shopping carts! Mind you, I don't know how they feel. And

> some of them look very unhealthy.

>

> I think some of us just have to make a greater effort because of

> predispositions, other circumstances, etc.

>

> Thanks! More thoughts welcome.

>

> R.

>

>

>>

>>> 1) Alkalize myself with more alkaline forming foods

>>

>> That seems reasonable, although I wonder about what exactly

>> people mean when they say " alkalize themselves " , as there

>> are various parts of the body that are healthiest when they

>> are acidic -- the stomach and small intestines during

>> digestion are good examples.

>>

>>> 2) Do a short water fast

>>

>> I'd skip that step -- you've probably got too many toxins in

>> you already, and you should be taking things to bind to them

>> and support your body in dealing with them. A water fast

>> will just let them dump into your bloodstream and make

>> you feel terrible.

>>

>>> 3) Take a gut-healing formula

>>

>> Certainly people claim this is good, although the ones I

>> tried never made much difference.

>>

>>> 4) Take anti-candida supplements, be it Oil of Oregano, garlic,

>>> coconut, etc.

>>

>> I did badly on garlic and coconut -- you might want to add

>> probiotics and grapefruit seed extract to that list.

>>

>>> 7) Liver flush (a la Hulda 's Olive Oil, epsom salts, etc.)

>>

>> Ugh. That brings up some really unpleasant memories... :-(

>> I suppose some people are helped by this, but I gave up on

>> it before I noticed any improvements.

>>

>>> 9) While going after Lyme, try taking Modifilan (brown seaweed

>>> extract) and perhaps other toxin/bio-toxin/metal binding agents to

>>> help with possible die-off reaction

>>

>> And if you cannot tolerate modifilan, there are certainly

>> alternatives,

>> like activated charcoal, bentonite, apple pectin, etc.

>>

>> I'd say that you'd do metal detox all by itself, and not just an

>> adjunct to going after Lyme.

>>

>>> Throughout all this I'd be trying to eat well, take other general

>>> detoxing agents such as sprouted broccoli seed,

>>> burdock/dandelion/etc.

>>> tinctures, and so on.

>>

>> Good ideas, although I don't know how helpful it actually is. It

>> seems that people can eat really healthy and still stay ill...

>>

>> Marc

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey , and Marc - thanks.

No, I hadn't considered adrenal support - might be worth it,

especially considering how stressed out I've felt at times. I admit,

it's easier to stress yourself when you realize how stupid and

unhealthy some of the things people embrace are, and that they can

make things harder for...and then rage against the injustice of it

all. Bad habit of mine.

, I do like the idea of a strong system to begin with before a

real cleansing attempt. I've shied away from trying colostrum,

because I have trouble with dairy (except butter, or better, raw milk

butter, which our wise government thinks should be illegal). What are

your thoughts on dairy troubles and colostrum? I know there are mixed

opinions on it.

Fortunately, I have no metal fillings in my mouth (as far as I know,

at least!) I have some " white fillings " , whatever they are...but I see

no amalgam among my teeth. I may have had a couple or few when I was

younger, a lot younger - I'm twenty six - but if I did, they're gone

now. I'd have to ask my parents about that.

Cheers,

R.

> >>

> >>> 1) Alkalize myself with more alkaline forming foods

> >>

> >> That seems reasonable, although I wonder about what exactly

> >> people mean when they say " alkalize themselves " , as there

> >> are various parts of the body that are healthiest when they

> >> are acidic -- the stomach and small intestines during

> >> digestion are good examples.

> >>

> >>> 2) Do a short water fast

> >>

> >> I'd skip that step -- you've probably got too many toxins in

> >> you already, and you should be taking things to bind to them

> >> and support your body in dealing with them. A water fast

> >> will just let them dump into your bloodstream and make

> >> you feel terrible.

> >>

> >>> 3) Take a gut-healing formula

> >>

> >> Certainly people claim this is good, although the ones I

> >> tried never made much difference.

> >>

> >>> 4) Take anti-candida supplements, be it Oil of Oregano, garlic,

> >>> coconut, etc.

> >>

> >> I did badly on garlic and coconut -- you might want to add

> >> probiotics and grapefruit seed extract to that list.

> >>

> >>> 7) Liver flush (a la Hulda 's Olive Oil, epsom salts, etc.)

> >>

> >> Ugh. That brings up some really unpleasant memories... :-(

> >> I suppose some people are helped by this, but I gave up on

> >> it before I noticed any improvements.

> >>

> >>> 9) While going after Lyme, try taking Modifilan (brown seaweed

> >>> extract) and perhaps other toxin/bio-toxin/metal binding agents to

> >>> help with possible die-off reaction

> >>

> >> And if you cannot tolerate modifilan, there are certainly

> >> alternatives,

> >> like activated charcoal, bentonite, apple pectin, etc.

> >>

> >> I'd say that you'd do metal detox all by itself, and not just an

> >> adjunct to going after Lyme.

> >>

> >>> Throughout all this I'd be trying to eat well, take other general

> >>> detoxing agents such as sprouted broccoli seed,

> >>> burdock/dandelion/etc.

> >>> tinctures, and so on.

> >>

> >> Good ideas, although I don't know how helpful it actually is. It

> >> seems that people can eat really healthy and still stay ill...

> >>

> >> Marc

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi, Rticle,

 

You are onto a good thing here.  But first on your list should be to buy books

to learn as much as you can and also to have done various medical testing to

determine what you have medically to work with.  I go for regular blood tests

(not prescribed by my doc, btw--I get these every 6 months thru various civic

organizations.  They are called " multiphasic tests " .  These include basic blood

panels, test bone density, etc.  You can even have your water tested.  I don't

know if Canadians have these or not, but they are popular and relatively

inexpensive in Pennsylvania.)  Once you have basic blood tests, etc, a book like

" Prescriptions for Nutritional Healing " by Phyllis and Balch, is a good

place to study next.  It includes in it various home tests for alkaline/acidic

metabolism and various other mineral tests.  Do all the tests you can find.  It

also gives all the nutrients and their sources (foods mainly), symptoms of

deficiency, and

toxicity.  Study this.  This is very important info.  Make yourself a list of

nutrients which match your symptoms and eating habits (or should I say lack of

eating habit).  Read up on all the various nutrients and helps they have--such

as any info on neurological enzymes, neurotransmitters, etc.  Get a handle on as

much as you can grasp and make a profile of your body profile and needs, areas

which you can see you lack normalcy, etc.  Then you can start your list.  I

mainly see people picking and choosing out of lack of overall knowledge of what

they are dealing with.  You just can't go willy-nilly into taking nutrients,

etc.  You do have to have an idea what you are doing.  One thing you will find

with a book like " Prescriptions.... " is, there is NO WAY you can take all the

nutrients/herbs/etc that they suggest for a particular problem.  Don't worry

about that.  Look instead to which nutrients are listed repeatedly for various

problems you

have.  If you have 5 symptoms, for instance, that all list (for instance) B12

as the most important nutrient need (or one of the top 3 needs), then you will

definitely want to list B12 as something to try.  Then when you have a long list

of nutrients/etc to try, you should watch for nutritional formulas which match

your list.  Go for quality and not for the number of odd ingredient needs.  Make

sure the company you are buying from is first rate.

 

I am personally not able to get docs to do all the work for me on my

particular needs, but when I find an alternative medical source, or doc who will

work with me, I go there.  At one point, I was working with a nutritionist 3

states away by phone.  He was great!  He had worked in nutritional research

under Carlton Fredricks years ago, and had written a book I read and found very

informative.  He was relatively cheap!  I think he charged something like

$65/45-50 min call.  We set up an appt and he called me at that time.  I could

ask him anything (he didn't necessarily know the answer, but he did research

various things for me that he found interesting that I brought up.  One of those

ideas was the connection between serotonin dumping and acid metabolism and how

alkaline water might abate this.)  Be on a quest to gather as much info as you

can, however you can come by it.  Also, spending alot of time on the internet

(if you can stand it) can

get you alot of info--cutting edge info on recent research.

The major thing I disagreed with on your list was your water fast.  I react very

badly to even missing one glass of water/day.  It affects me in many ways over

the next week or so.  I wouldn't consider water fasting to be safe for me

personally.  I like your ideas for the cleanses (tho I agree with Marc that they

can be stressful.)  I especially like the idea you have for gut flora cleansing

(anti-candida, sugarfree, yeastfree, glutenfree diet--very good idea and also

various antifungals/antibacterials/anti-parasitic and viral--all of these are

very good ideas.  I, too, would add the probiotics that others suggested.  I

don't know whether anyone suggested whey powder or monolauren, but I personally

found these helpful in ridding the beasties from my gut. Calcium AEP and

pantethine (and CoQ10) also were good for adrenal support when I was addressing

these problems and cal AEP works as a " trojan horse " to kill candida--the

candida love to side-track

calcium, but the " AEP " is hidden until it is in their biofilms and then

releases and kills them.  I personally would move your bug killing to the top of

your list.  I might add here that alkalization is likely to be more of a help to

people with " bug " issues.  I came to alkalization because I had a dxed condition

called " serotonin dumping " .  I had serotonin in my urine (possibly from gut

damage and bad gut flora caused by celiac disease) which had been dxed by a

5-HIAA 24 hour urine test.  This began my quest to find out what I could do to

cure this problem.  I ultimately found it was tied to metabolic acidity and so

alkalinization helped it.  It was more than just a clinical problem for me, it

severely affected my energy metabolism.  So, do I feel everyone with ES needs

alkalization?  Hmmm....  good question.  Only if one feels that serotonin

problems or acid metabolism is a problem (which is USUALLY the case in lymphatic

overload

conditions).  This is why it is necessary for you to do homework to figure out

your medical profile.  You may be a person for whom alkalization is a bad

thing.  (Tho I suspect that most of us here tend toward adic metabolism.  And

there is a difference, btw, between acid metabolism and acid/alkaline digestion

or stomach.  One doesn't equate with the other.  And that is why you should do

testing and read up on it first.)

 

My 2 cents--but I think you are really on track!

Diane

From: rticleone <rticleone@...>

Subject: The correct sequence of detoxification - what is it?

Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 4:05 PM

It seems that when dealing with EMF issues, detoxification and the

elimination of pathogenic organisms plays a very important role.

I've tried a little bit of this, a little bit of that - my approach

has been very sporadic, and I'm not a position which affords me any

supplement known to man, but I'd like to try to do this a bit more

logically and sequentially.

I'm going to outline what I think would be a good sequence, and I'd

like to have some input from you guys about what you think of it:

1) Alkalize myself with more alkaline forming foods

2) Do a short water fast

3) Take a gut-healing formula (quite sure I have some compromised

intestinal permeability going on, given my reactions to food)

4) Take anti-candida supplements, be it Oil of Oregano, garlic,

coconut, etc. (I say with certainty that I've had yeast issues most of

my life and still may)

5) Kidney cleanse (a la Edgar Cayce using watermelon seed tea

6) Parasite cleanse (black walnut, cloves, et al)

7) Liver flush (a la Hulda 's Olive Oil, epsom salts, etc.)

8) Go after suspected Lyme/co-infections, take note of any improvement

or herxheimer reaction (worked on farms, recall a strange rash, been

through the woods off trails plenty of times, and given its ability to

imitate, what, three hundred diseases or so, and some people's

experience with it and ES, I figure it's worth a try)

9) While going after Lyme, try taking Modifilan (brown seaweed

extract) and perhaps other toxin/bio-toxin/ metal binding agents to

help with possible die-off reaction

Throughout all this I'd be trying to eat well, take other general

detoxing agents such as sprouted broccoli seed, burdock/dandelion/ etc.

tinctures, and so on.

So! What do you think? Any thoughts welcome.

Cheers,

R.