Re: Electrical appliances and grounding

[Guest guest]

Noone has any bits of knowledge, speculation, etc. to share on this?

Thanks,

~Svetaswan

>

> Hi,

>

> It's not difficult to notice that many electronics and electrical appliances

that are sold today come with 2-prong power cords (ungrounded) - as opposed to

the 3-pronged cords that have a prong that connects to " ground " . Even some

relatively-large, major electronics - like TVs, and VCR-DVD combo players - are

manufactured with 2-pronged cords. Why are so many electronics manufacturers

opting for the 2-pronged power cords over 3-pronged cords? Is it simply a

matter of cost-cutting?

>

> Are there reasons other than cost-related ones why manufacturers would opt for

the 2-prong power cord? Are there actually any benefits to having a 2-prong

cord?

>

> I recently bought this VCR-DVD-recorder combo that - unfortunately - I often

feel when it's in operation (or when it's simply powered on). Back in the " good

old days " - I would have 2 VCRs in my room at the same time (and one of those

VCRs was a dual-deck one) with no obvious problems - so I didn't really

anticipate that this VCR-DVD player would give me symptoms. And I noticed,

despite it being a relatively-large device (by today's standards) that I guess

uses a fair amount of power - it has a 2-pronged power cord. I'm wondering if

figuring out some way to " ground " this device would make a difference.

>

> But I don't want to do anything to harm or shorten the lifespan of these

devices. Would " grounding " a device that isn't " supposed " to be grounded (that

wasn't manufactured with a grounded cord) be harmful?

>

> Thanks,

>

> ~Svetaswan

>

[Guest guest]

> Noone has any bits of knowledge, speculation, etc. to share on this?

It all seems rather random as to which electrical appliances have

a grounded (3-pin) plug and which have an ungrounded (2-pin)

plug. I've had an old 32 " cathode-ray-tube television that had

a 2-pin plug, and also a new 37 " LCD HDTV with a 2-pin plug.

Yet, I've got a 23 " and 26 " LCD HDTV that have 3-pin plugs! (???)

Marc

[Guest guest]

Yeah - I saw some LCD TVs in the store during my big search that had 3-pin plugs

- too bad none of those models seemed to be " The One " for me.

Do you think your appliances with 3-pin plugs are less bothersome than they

would be if they used 2-pin plugs? Does grounding a device make a difference as

far as symptoms?

The " TCO " organization, I think - will only certify products that have 3-pin

power cords. According to an email response I once received from them,

connecting an appliance to " ground " can reduce its electrical field

substantially.

~Svetaswan

>

> > Noone has any bits of knowledge, speculation, etc. to share on this?

>

> It all seems rather random as to which electrical appliances have

> a grounded (3-pin) plug and which have an ungrounded (2-pin)

> plug. I've had an old 32 " cathode-ray-tube television that had

> a 2-pin plug, and also a new 37 " LCD HDTV with a 2-pin plug.

> Yet, I've got a 23 " and 26 " LCD HDTV that have 3-pin plugs! (???)

>

> Marc

>

[Guest guest]

> Do you think your appliances with 3-pin plugs are less bothersome than they

> would be if they used 2-pin plugs? Does grounding a device make a difference

> as far as symptoms?

Not that I've noticed -- however, if you really want to " ground " a device that

only has a 2-pin prong, you can buy something from LessEMF.com that will

do that (I think!). What you'd need is a plug with just the ground pin on

one end, and you'd connect that to part of the metal chasis on the device

(assuming you can access something metal on the device).

Marc

[Guest guest]

Here's a brief guide to grounding your appliances:

http://www.wireless-precaution.com/main/electric.php#grounding

BTW, the building biology checklist does recommend 3-pin over 2-pin prongs.

With electric fields, remember from a recent study on EHS and electric fields

that the on/off field transitions themselves may have effects. So it might be

good if there is a way to turn on and off a switch from a distance. I remember

an old video of Per Segerback where he used a stick to turn on and off the

switch of a power outlet.

>

> > Do you think your appliances with 3-pin plugs are less bothersome than they

> > would be if they used 2-pin plugs? Does grounding a device make a

difference

> > as far as symptoms?

>

> Not that I've noticed -- however, if you really want to " ground " a device that

> only has a 2-pin prong, you can buy something from LessEMF.com that will

> do that (I think!). What you'd need is a plug with just the ground pin on

> one end, and you'd connect that to part of the metal chasis on the device

> (assuming you can access something metal on the device).

>

> Marc

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Sveta,

I am way behind in my email, since I haven't been online due to family

illness.  Thanks for your other email you sent me, btw.  I have some info to

write you on that, but it might be a week or so before I can get to it. 

The only thing I do know about the 2 prong plugs is, even tho an appliance has a

2 prong plug, it still works best in one particular direction.  So try the

appliance plug both directions, and if you feel a difference, tape the top of

the plug or paint it with a dot of nail polish, so you can easily distinguish

it.  Back when I was working on making my laptop more usable for me, a Dell

tech told me to do this and that it would make a difference.  It does.

I often plug 2 prong plugs into a grounded power block (same as a power strip

except it is square and uses both sockets of an outlet).  The only problem with

this is sometimes power strips or blocks cause their own bad frequencies, so you

might have to buy and return some before you find one which works without

causing you symptoms.  I especially like to do this with tvs/ vcrs/ other

electronics.

Diane

From: svetaswan <svetaswan@...>

Subject: Re: Electrical appliances and " grounding "

Date: Thursday, September 8, 2011, 6:12 PM

 

Noone has any bits of knowledge, speculation, etc. to share on this?

Thanks,

~Svetaswan

>

> Hi,

>

> It's not difficult to notice that many electronics and electrical appliances

that are sold today come with 2-prong power cords (ungrounded) - as opposed to

the 3-pronged cords that have a prong that connects to " ground " . Even some

relatively-large, major electronics - like TVs, and VCR-DVD combo players - are

manufactured with 2-pronged cords. Why are so many electronics manufacturers

opting for the 2-pronged power cords over 3-pronged cords? Is it simply a

matter of cost-cutting?

>

> Are there reasons other than cost-related ones why manufacturers would opt for

the 2-prong power cord? Are there actually any benefits to having a 2-prong

cord?

>

> I recently bought this VCR-DVD-recorder combo that - unfortunately - I often

feel when it's in operation (or when it's simply powered on). Back in the " good

old days " - I would have 2 VCRs in my room at the same time (and one of those

VCRs was a dual-deck one) with no obvious problems - so I didn't really

anticipate that this VCR-DVD player would give me symptoms. And I noticed,

despite it being a relatively-large device (by today's standards) that I guess

uses a fair amount of power - it has a 2-pronged power cord. I'm wondering if

figuring out some way to " ground " this device would make a difference.

>

> But I don't want to do anything to harm or shorten the lifespan of these

devices. Would " grounding " a device that isn't " supposed " to be grounded (that

wasn't manufactured with a grounded cord) be harmful?

>

> Thanks,

>

> ~Svetaswan

>

[Guest guest]

Appliances are " grounded " to earth for safety/

If an appliance isn't earthedd then if the appliance suffered some damage that

caused a short circuit between the mains power and the case of the appliance,

the damage would make the case live and it would cause an electrical shock to

anyone who touched it.

If the case is earthed, if that same damage occurred the mains would be shorted

to ground and in theory cause the fuse to blow or circuit breaker to trip, thus

eliminating the danger of a live case.

Many items nowadays have entirely plastic cases and thus the risk of electrical

shock due to short is nil thus its perfectly reasonable for manufacturers to not

provide an earth as there is no need from a safety perspective.

Regards

Mike

>

> Hi,

>

> It's not difficult to notice that many electronics and electrical appliances

that are sold today come with 2-prong power cords (ungrounded) - as opposed to

the 3-pronged cords that have a prong that connects to " ground " . Even some

relatively-large, major electronics - like TVs, and VCR-DVD combo players - are

manufactured with 2-pronged cords. Why are so many electronics manufacturers

opting for the 2-pronged power cords over 3-pronged cords? Is it simply a

matter of cost-cutting?

>

> Are there reasons other than cost-related ones why manufacturers would opt for

the 2-prong power cord? Are there actually any benefits to having a 2-prong

cord?

>

> I recently bought this VCR-DVD-recorder combo that - unfortunately - I often

feel when it's in operation (or when it's simply powered on). Back in the " good

old days " - I would have 2 VCRs in my room at the same time (and one of those

VCRs was a dual-deck one) with no obvious problems - so I didn't really

anticipate that this VCR-DVD player would give me symptoms. And I noticed,

despite it being a relatively-large device (by today's standards) that I guess

uses a fair amount of power - it has a 2-pronged power cord. I'm wondering if

figuring out some way to " ground " this device would make a difference.

>

> But I don't want to do anything to harm or shorten the lifespan of these

devices. Would " grounding " a device that isn't " supposed " to be grounded (that

wasn't manufactured with a grounded cord) be harmful?

>

> Thanks,

>

> ~Svetaswan

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > Do you think your appliances with 3-pin plugs are less bothersome than they

> > would be if they used 2-pin plugs? Does grounding a device make a

difference

> > as far as symptoms?

>

> Not that I've noticed -- however, if you really want to " ground " a device that

> only has a 2-pin prong, you can buy something from LessEMF.com that will

> do that (I think!). What you'd need is a plug with just the ground pin on

> one end, and you'd connect that to part of the metal chasis on the device

> (assuming you can access something metal on the device).

>

> Marc

>

Thanks Marc - I just may try this. It's possible - though I won't hold my

breath on that - that I could feel some difference - since there have been times

when I seemed to react instantly to the most " trivial " adjustments. And I know

that I can't necessarily use your personal reactions - or lack thereof (in this

case) - as a foolproof indication of how I would react. (And of course this

doesn't only apply for you - we're all different when it comes to what we do or

do not react to.) For ex. - you don't seem to experience any symptoms from

dimming the backlight of a LCD TV - whereas I do in a lot of instances (at least

to some degree).

I think I'm going to buy a Furman PST-8 first - perhaps the power strip could

make some difference on its own. I'm not crazy about shelling out the $$ - but

perhaps it would be worth it in some ways (not just from an e.s. standpoint).

And the power strip will give me some needed ground pins in which to ground my

devices - with the set-up I have now, I don't have all of the " grounding

connections " I need.

~Svetaswan

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link emraware. Perhaps an effective " On/Off " switch would be a

power strip with an on/off switch? Does switching off a power strip have the

same effect as unplugging devices altogether?

Yeah - it's something how I've felt a difference just from unplugging my

already- " off " LED TV from the wall. I guess this is illustrative of the fact

that devices emit electrical fields even when they are " turned off " .

It's also something how I can " feel " appliances from clear across the room. I

mean - it seems pretty implausible that I can be affected by a VCR/DVD player

that I'm sitting some 7, 8, or 9 feet (about 2 or 3 meters) from - but such is

the " surreal " nature of my e.s.. (I often feel TVs from this distance, too.)

What I'm feeling can't be the actual electromagnetic field, can it? I just

didn't think that the magnetic, or electromagnetic field reaches that far.

~Svetaswan

> >

> > > Do you think your appliances with 3-pin plugs are less bothersome than

they

> > > would be if they used 2-pin plugs? Does grounding a device make a

difference

> > > as far as symptoms?

> >

> > Not that I've noticed -- however, if you really want to " ground " a device

that

> > only has a 2-pin prong, you can buy something from LessEMF.com that will

> > do that (I think!). What you'd need is a plug with just the ground pin on

> > one end, and you'd connect that to part of the metal chasis on the device

> > (assuming you can access something metal on the device).

> >

> > Marc

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for the tips, Diane - I'll look into this. Sometimes, I've

noticed that plugs don't seem to be able to " fit " into an outlet in one

direction - and you have to " flip " it, or turn it around in order to fit the

plug into the outlet. It's like you're " locked " into one direction. IIRC, that

seemed to be the case with the power cord of my LED TV. So I'm not sure if this

option is available to me - but I'll take a closer look.

From what I understand - I didn't think that plugging an ungrounded cord into a

grounded power strip served to ground the device - but maybe there is some other

positive effect from doing this? I know that I prefer to see electronics

plugged into a " quality " power strip with a thick, grounded cord vs. a " flimsy " ,

ungrounded extension cord - but I wasn't sure how much this preference

translated into actual symptom-relief. I'm going to try out a Furman power

strip, though - hopefully it doesn't make things worse!

~Svetaswan

>

> >

>

> > Hi,

>

> >

>

> > It's not difficult to notice that many electronics and electrical appliances

that are sold today come with 2-prong power cords (ungrounded) - as opposed to

the 3-pronged cords that have a prong that connects to " ground " . Even some

relatively-large, major electronics - like TVs, and VCR-DVD combo players - are

manufactured with 2-pronged cords. Why are so many electronics manufacturers

opting for the 2-pronged power cords over 3-pronged cords? Is it simply a

matter of cost-cutting?

>

> >

>

> > Are there reasons other than cost-related ones why manufacturers would opt

for the 2-prong power cord? Are there actually any benefits to having a 2-prong

cord?

>

> >

>

> > I recently bought this VCR-DVD-recorder combo that - unfortunately - I often

feel when it's in operation (or when it's simply powered on). Back in the " good

old days " - I would have 2 VCRs in my room at the same time (and one of those

VCRs was a dual-deck one) with no obvious problems - so I didn't really

anticipate that this VCR-DVD player would give me symptoms. And I noticed,

despite it being a relatively-large device (by today's standards) that I guess

uses a fair amount of power - it has a 2-pronged power cord. I'm wondering if

figuring out some way to " ground " this device would make a difference.

>

> >

>

> > But I don't want to do anything to harm or shorten the lifespan of these

devices. Would " grounding " a device that isn't " supposed " to be grounded (that

wasn't manufactured with a grounded cord) be harmful?

>

> >

>

> > Thanks,

>

> >

>

> > ~Svetaswan

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Many items nowadays have entirely plastic cases and thus the risk of

electrical shock due to short is nil thus its perfectly reasonable for

manufacturers to not provide an earth as there is no need from a safety

perspective.

>

> Regards

> Mike

Two-pin cords may be " perfectly-reasonable " if all you're concerned about is

preventing " instant death " . But in the interests of our long-term health, it

may not be the best option. In this " modern " society, we see this same scenario

play out over and over again - doing things to prevent a quick death, but

without much regard for our long-term health/quality-of-life.

I guess industry much prefers to kill us (very) slowly rather than quickly -

after all, causes of slow deaths/deteriorations are more difficult to prove in a

court-of-law. (wink)

~Svetaswan

[Guest guest]

The Furman works great on my TV, VCR, etc. I may get one for my computer as

well.

Steve

> >

> > > Do you think your appliances with 3-pin plugs are less bothersome than

they

> > > would be if they used 2-pin plugs? Does grounding a device make a

difference

> > > as far as symptoms?

> >

> > Not that I've noticed -- however, if you really want to " ground " a device

that

> > only has a 2-pin prong, you can buy something from LessEMF.com that will

> > do that (I think!). What you'd need is a plug with just the ground pin on

> > one end, and you'd connect that to part of the metal chasis on the device

> > (assuming you can access something metal on the device).

> >

> > Marc

> >

>

>

> Thanks Marc - I just may try this. It's possible - though I won't hold my

breath on that - that I could feel some difference - since there have been times

when I seemed to react instantly to the most " trivial " adjustments. And I know

that I can't necessarily use your personal reactions - or lack thereof (in this

case) - as a foolproof indication of how I would react. (And of course this

doesn't only apply for you - we're all different when it comes to what we do or

do not react to.) For ex. - you don't seem to experience any symptoms from

dimming the backlight of a LCD TV - whereas I do in a lot of instances (at least

to some degree).

>

> I think I'm going to buy a Furman PST-8 first - perhaps the power strip could

make some difference on its own. I'm not crazy about shelling out the $$ - but

perhaps it would be worth it in some ways (not just from an e.s. standpoint).

And the power strip will give me some needed ground pins in which to ground my

devices - with the set-up I have now, I don't have all of the " grounding

connections " I need.

>

> ~Svetaswan

>

[Guest guest]

It's true that the safety ground only makes sense for

something that is conductive on the outside. But in

that case, it provides both a safety ground and a grounded

shield. If you have metal conduit wiring and a

shielded power cord, the shield may be impressively good.

Otherwise, it won't be great but can still block the low

frequency electric fields.

For devices that don't draw much current, it's also possible

to have a shielded 2 prong device, but if there's something

nearby contaminating the neutral, then the shield will

radiate that field. Ground wires can be contaminated too,

unfortunately. So it's really more important how the device

is designed, and what kind of power supply it uses. 12 years

ago linear supplies were the norm, but after that it's been

SMPS which are usually terrible.

It is true that sometimes the 60 Hz electric field will be

much lower if you flip the cord around. For the plugs

that have one prong bigger you can't flip them, and

the idea is they only go in the safe way, which should

also mean less electric field (unless your outlet is wired

backwards, which I'm told does happen).

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:58 AM, ukcompbits <ukcompbits@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> Appliances are " grounded " to earth for safety/

>

> If an appliance isn't earthedd then if the appliance suffered some damage

> that caused a short circuit between the mains power and the case of the

> appliance, the damage would make the case live and it would cause an

> electrical shock to anyone who touched it.

>

> If the case is earthed, if that same damage occurred the mains would be

> shorted to ground and in theory cause the fuse to blow or circuit breaker to

> trip, thus eliminating the danger of a live case.

>

> Many items nowadays have entirely plastic cases and thus the risk of

> electrical shock due to short is nil thus its perfectly reasonable for

> manufacturers to not provide an earth as there is no need from a safety

> perspective.

>

> Regards

> Mike

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > It's not difficult to notice that many electronics and electrical

> appliances that are sold today come with 2-prong power cords (ungrounded) -

> as opposed to the 3-pronged cords that have a prong that connects to

> " ground " . Even some relatively-large, major electronics - like TVs, and

> VCR-DVD combo players - are manufactured with 2-pronged cords. Why are so

> many electronics manufacturers opting for the 2-pronged power cords over

> 3-pronged cords? Is it simply a matter of cost-cutting?

> >

> > Are there reasons other than cost-related ones why manufacturers would

> opt for the 2-prong power cord? Are there actually any benefits to having a

> 2-prong cord?

> >

> > I recently bought this VCR-DVD-recorder combo that - unfortunately - I

> often feel when it's in operation (or when it's simply powered on). Back in

> the " good old days " - I would have 2 VCRs in my room at the same time (and

> one of those VCRs was a dual-deck one) with no obvious problems - so I

> didn't really anticipate that this VCR-DVD player would give me symptoms.

> And I noticed, despite it being a relatively-large device (by today's

> standards) that I guess uses a fair amount of power - it has a 2-pronged

> power cord. I'm wondering if figuring out some way to " ground " this device

> would make a difference.

> >

> > But I don't want to do anything to harm or shorten the lifespan of these

> devices. Would " grounding " a device that isn't " supposed " to be grounded

> (that wasn't manufactured with a grounded cord) be harmful?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > ~Svetaswan

> >

>

>

>