RE: Re: Any body on Calorie Restriction who's on Libido Restriction?

[Guest guest]

I'm confused about a lot of claims that we must reach the levels attained by the aged to be in CR. I think aggressive CR, as in a lot of weight loss, especially below "nominal" induces a libido problem. And there have been discussions about the lady of the house not liking ones CR results.

Weight loss is probably essential down to a nominal for max lifespan. That's because the heart muscle ages - maybe 1% per year. Obviously. CR or not we eventually reach a point where the heart cannot serve all the cells, so some have to go and old folks do shrink. But excessive shrinking earlier is questionable, IMO.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:03 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Any body on Calorie Restriction who's on Libido Restriction?

Hi:I must say I am confused about the libido issue as it relates to CR.On the one hand it seems to be widely assumed that CR reduces libido. On the other it is reported (Al Pater has posted data to this effect) that DHEA, which I understand is the precursor to testosterone, declines more slowly with age for those on CR. (Just like lots of other measures of health that deteriorate more slowly in those on CR).I am only in the early stages of CR and so far I have not noticed any libido effects. And while this would not be a huge issue for me, either way, I am fairly sure my libido would be a big issue for the lady of the house around here.So any efforts to clarify this issue would be helpful to me.Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Agree. And well said. Of course there are many individual variables -

including women who are sex addicts - but in general I'd say hit the

nail on the head.

wrote:

> ly, most women would appreciate more emotional attention and

> general companionship from the men in their life. Can you other women

> on the list verify this? My impression is that a high male libido

> tends to interfere with other aspects of male/female relationships.

> If you don't let a reduced libido make you generally ignore your

> female companions, then I'm not sure there is a problem.

[Guest guest]

Actually, I usually assume that after the first six months or so that women

couldn't care less if they ever have sex again with their husbands. I base

this on years and years of 'guy talk'.

I figure that having a libido at all is about 50th on the list of desired

qualities women desire. Right after #49 (Ability to kill spiders.) and

right before #51 (Ability to sort trash into proper recycling containers.)

(|-|ri5

> I think men assume men's libido is more valuable to women

> than it is.

>

[Guest guest]

No so, at least not in one case to which I can attest.

Libido may be an very important part of marriage, even after 20 years, in my

experience, anyway! And I am refering to important to the woman in the

relationship as well as to the man.

>From: " chris " <motjuste@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Any body on Calorie Restriction who's on

>Libido Restriction?

>Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 09:38:18 +0300

>

>

>Actually, I usually assume that after the first six months or so that women

>couldn't care less if they ever have sex again with their husbands. I base

>this on years and years of 'guy talk'.

>

>I figure that having a libido at all is about 50th on the list of desired

>qualities women desire. Right after #49 (Ability to kill spiders.) and

>right before #51 (Ability to sort trash into proper recycling containers.)

>

> (|-|ri5

>

> > I think men assume men's libido is more valuable to women

> > than it is.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rodney: please understand that the story I related was one that was in turn

related to the group by a male, Sherm. It could very well have seemed in

his eyes that his return to a normal libido signified all that was necessary

to win his wife back. We never heard directly from his wife, who could very

well have been dissatisfied with his obsessiveness of all things CRON, and

not just his lack of libido. That would have explained his very abrupt

departure from the CR Society List at that time (after explaining the reason

to everyone). Certainly leaving the group has nothing to do with libido,

but everything to do with Sherm's over involvement in his life with CRON

extremism.

on 6/3/2004 8:20 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi folks:

> So the story related here by Francesca of Sherman's relationship with

> his wife seems far from unusual. As Francesca related it, the wife

> was more than happy to continue in the relationship if this one

> detail could be ironed out. Yet she was more than prepared, at least

> as Francesca described it, to pull the plug on her marriage if it was

> not resolved. This kind of determination suggests to me that for a

> considerable number of women this is a very important part of their

> lives. Granted, there are some women for whom sex is an unwelcome

> chore. But simply as a result of evolution it would seem that they

> are likely to be a rather small minority. It is difficult to imagine

> that there could be a survival advantage to an abhorrance of sex.

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I saw, " we are getting personal here " , my eyes opened wide.

Then when I read the remainder, it was a good opening sentence!

Yes, CR can help personal relationships and improve marital

harmony, and make the match up a little more even-keeled.

CR can have " an upside " , as 's remarks indicate.

Some have commented that this effect of moderating and smoothing

libido is exhilarating and liberating, and one of the most

pleasant and valuable effects of CR. Of course, CR will help to

retain libido too into old age, as is proven in the laboratory.

The CR mice are still fecund, even after the adlib mice are dead.

-- Warren

===========================

On 02 June 2004, wrote:

Since we're getting personal here, I am of the impression that most

men have a higher libido than most women. This is based on many, many

years of girl talk with women that don't necessarily pull punches. I

would think the best scenario is one where a man and women have

libidos that are close to equal. A minor difference would not be a

big deal. I think men assume men's libido is more valuable to women

than it is. Kind of like baldness. Many women like bald men, but men

seem to not believe this. Some reduction in libido for men might be a

very positive thing for relationships.

ly, most women would appreciate more emotional attention and

general companionship from the men in their life. Can you other women

on the list verify this? My impression is that a high male libido

tends to interfere with other aspects of male/female relationships.

If you don't let a reduced libido make you generally ignore your

female companions, then I'm not sure there is a problem.

[Guest guest]

Rodney: unless you become " concentration camp thin " , such as the more

extreme CRONIES, you needn't worry. From what you've reported so far,

you're a long way from that.

Moderation/Variety/QoL

on 6/3/2004 9:06 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> Just to clarify. I am not concerned about minor changes in libido.

> But I am concerned about the complete disappearance of it.

>

> From what I gather complete disappearance is reported by some

> participants on other CR web sites. It would be really helpful if we

> had a source that could provide a decent picture of the data in this

> regard. I.E. how frequently does total disappearance occur in

> serious male CRON practitioners of various ages?

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

on 6/4/2004 10:41 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

These " human " side effects are only recently discovered (with us CRONIES as

the guinea pigs), so the only data we have are the extremists; this

" sampling " is small. But since these side effects are easily reversed (as

noted with the example of Sherm), why would anyone need to worry about it?

> Hi Francesca:

>

> Thanks for that reassurance. However, I would be more comfortable

> about the issue if I saw some data covering a significant number of

> people regarding degree of restriction (daily calories, or other

> measure if considered more relevant), age (since age is associated

> with loss of enthusiasm and/or ability independently of CR), and

> associated degree of loss of libido, if any.

>

> Since ability is inversely related to narrowing of arteries (and

> Viagra helps open up restricted arteries, I believe) CR, in helping

> clean up clogged arteries, might be associated with increased

> ability .... possibly. In addition to a slower rate of decline in

> DHEA.

>

> But without some data all this is theoretical and therefore next to

> useless, IMO (fwiw).

>

> Rodney.