Re: Any body on Calorie Restriction who's on Libido Restriction?

[Guest guest]

Castrate a dog and he lives longer. It's what the testosterone does to our body. I don't think it's what we use it for that shortens our lifespan wrt females, because it uses energy. Like any exercise we have to replace the calories used. So conceivably there might be some slight gain in lifespan with abstinence. But the "monks" who practice that - it would be hard to separate the effect of abstinence from the other things they do, like diet, eg.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: temma675

Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 5:54 AM

Subject: [ ] Any body on Calorie Restriction who's on Libido Restriction?

This is a touchy subject but I would like to know if you know any men who's on CR and has a low libido.I recently found out that controlling my libido (essetinally copying the "ideal" sex life of a priest/monk) has a tremendous benefit to my health. The only problem is it's hard to control libido and food. Has anyone found/know of anyone who can controll those 2 things? I guess I want to know guys on CR who's not married, don't have kids and doesn't go around chasing tail (wishful thinking maybe but you never know).Forgive me from being long winded but I have to tell you that acting on your libido seems to make me weak, almost instaneously. I know its a bit off from CR but it certainly has the benefit of keeping me healthy. I can only speak for myself but it has an instaneous benefit towards my health.Anybody who's in their 20s should be careful of doing this though.

[Guest guest]

> I recently found out that controlling my libido (essetinally copying

> the " ideal " sex life of a priest/monk) has a tremendous benefit to my

> health. The only problem is it's hard to control libido and food.

Did you miss this revolution, a few month ago. I even saw it on the BBC:

" Ejaculation reduces prostate cancer risk "

http://menshealth.about.com/cs/prostatehealth/a/ejaculate_ptate.htm

" Men who ejaculated upwards of 21 times a month had a 33% lower

lifetime risk of prostate cancer than the baseline group. "

Alain R.

[Guest guest]

Hi:

I must say I am confused about the libido issue as it relates to CR.

On the one hand it seems to be widely assumed that CR reduces

libido. On the other it is reported (Al Pater has posted data to

this effect) that DHEA, which I understand is the precursor to

testosterone, declines more slowly with age for those on CR. (Just

like lots of other measures of health that deteriorate more slowly in

those on CR).

I am only in the early stages of CR and so far I have not noticed any

libido effects. And while this would not be a huge issue for me,

either way, I am fairly sure my libido would be a big issue for the

lady of the house around here.

So any efforts to clarify this issue would be helpful to me.

Rodney.

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> Castrate a dog and he lives longer. It's what the testosterone does

to our body. I don't think it's what we use it for that shortens our

lifespan wrt females, because it uses energy. Like any exercise we

have to replace the calories used. So conceivably there might be some

slight gain in lifespan with abstinence. But the " monks " who practice

that - it would be hard to separate the effect of abstinence from the

other things they do, like diet, eg.

>

> Regards.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: temma675

>

> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 5:54 AM

> Subject: [ ] Any body on Calorie Restriction who's

on Libido Restriction?

>

>

> This is a touchy subject but I would like to know if you know any

men

> who's on CR and has a low libido.

>

> I recently found out that controlling my libido (essetinally

copying

> the " ideal " sex life of a priest/monk) has a tremendous benefit

to my

> health. The only problem is it's hard to control libido and food.

Has

> anyone found/know of anyone who can controll those 2 things?

>

> I guess I want to know guys on CR who's not married, don't have

kids

> and doesn't go around chasing tail (wishful thinking maybe but

you

> never know).

>

> Forgive me from being long winded but I have to tell you that

acting

> on your libido seems to make me weak, almost instaneously. I know

its

> a bit off from CR but it certainly has the benefit of keeping me

> healthy. I can only speak for myself but it has an instaneous

benefit

> towards my health.

>

> Anybody who's in their 20s should be careful of doing this though.

[Guest guest]

> This is a touchy subject but I would like to know if you know any men

> who's on CR and has a low libido.

Not yet, but I'll let you know. I don't plan on doing CR to that extent in

any case.

> The only problem is it's hard to control libido and food. Has

> anyone found/know of anyone who can controll those 2 things?

Well it has been suggested that certain foods tend to excite the libido, so

perhaps the lack of the same (or food in general) would tend to deaden the

libido. Whether that is true or not, one could easily suppose that

developing self-control in one area of life (food) could help you have

self-control in others (sex).

>

> I guess I want to know guys on CR who's not married, don't have kids

> and doesn't go around chasing tail (wishful thinking maybe but you

> never know).

Without getting too personal, my libido is just fine, but I am also able to

live what I suppose you would call a celibate lifestyle. I'm not married

and I don't believe it is proper to have sex outside of marriage, therefore

I might be an example of what you are talking about. Not only don't I chase

women, but I also refuse the offers that I get from time to time. It isn't

my diet that enables me to do this, though.

> Anybody who's in their 20s should be careful of doing this though.

>

Why? What difference would it make how old you are? Maybe I don't

understand what you mean. Controlling your libido?

I don't know. Conventional wisdom says that it's unealthy *never* to have

sex, but there is no scientific proof of this. On the contrary, the body is

perfectly capable of dealing without it. Neither is it unhealthy to have

sex as often as you want, under the right circumstances.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> <snip>

And while this would not be a huge issue for me,

> either way, I am fairly sure my libido would be a big issue for the

> lady of the house around here.

>

> So any efforts to clarify this issue would be helpful to me.

>

> Rodney.

>

<snip>.

Since we're getting personal here, I am of the impression that most

men have a higher libido than most women. This is based on many, many

years of girl talk with women that don't necessarily pull punches. I

would think the best scenario is one where a man and women have

libidos that are close to equal. A minor difference would not be a

big deal. I think men assume men's libido is more valuable to women

than it is. Kind of like baldness. Many women like bald men, but men

seem to not believe this. Some reduction in libido for men might be a

very positive thing for relationships.

ly, most women would appreciate more emotional attention and

general companionship from the men in their life. Can you other women

on the list verify this? My impression is that a high male libido

tends to interfere with other aspects of male/female relationships.

If you don't let a reduced libido make you generally ignore your

female companions, then I'm not sure there is a problem.

[Guest guest]

Thanksfor the info guys, I didnt know no-ball dogs lived longer.

I may as well be very specific. When I said controlling libido I

meant " No ejaculation " .

Ejaculation seems to take alot out of me, I feel physically weak

afterwards. Most notably in the first 24 hours. It's like I've been

hit with a nastly cold. There's no science behind this but I

definitely feel week afterwards.

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

It is interesting how people's experiences can be so different. Some

years ago I read a book by a member of a major christian denomination

(I forget which one) which has relevance to this issue. The author

had devoted pretty much his entire working life to marriage

counselling. His reason for writing the book was to elucidate what

in his experience were the three overwhlemingly most common reasons

for marital breakup.

One of these three was that the woman was not getting enough. And in

these cases it was the only real issue. The woman would be more than

happy to stay in the relationship if this one problem could have been

resolved. But was determined to get out of it if it could not be.

The author devoted perhaps 100 pages to each of the three issues

under discussion and went into considerable detail about how the

problem arose, what the couple had done to try to resolve it, and

what the outcome had been of these attempts at resolution. The

almost inevitable result in this particular type of case was that

after years of requests from the woman for more activity the end

result was impotence for the male.

While reading this book I related its contents to a recently divorced

woman acquaintance who responded by saying that that had been

precisely the cause of her marriage breakup. And, while this is not

a frequent topic of conversation, I can immediately think of two

other cases I have run into just in general conversation with

acquaintances, where this was the issue.

So the story related here by Francesca of Sherman's relationship with

his wife seems far from unusual. As Francesca related it, the wife

was more than happy to continue in the relationship if this one

detail could be ironed out. Yet she was more than prepared, at least

as Francesca described it, to pull the plug on her marriage if it was

not resolved. This kind of determination suggests to me that for a

considerable number of women this is a very important part of their

lives. Granted, there are some women for whom sex is an unwelcome

chore. But simply as a result of evolution it would seem that they

are likely to be a rather small minority. It is difficult to imagine

that there could be a survival advantage to an abhorrance of sex.

So, if these types of issues are as relatively common as they appear

to be then this has the potential to be a major (negative) issue for

CR.

Just my take (as JW would say).

Rodney.

> No so, at least not in one case to which I can attest.

>

> Libido may be an very important part of marriage, even after 20

years, in my

> experience, anyway! And I am refering to important to the woman in

the

> relationship as well as to the man.

>

>

> >From: " chris " <motjuste@v...>

> >Reply-

> >< >

> >Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Any body on Calorie Restriction

who's on

> >Libido Restriction?

> >Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 09:38:18 +0300

> >

> >

> >Actually, I usually assume that after the first six months or so

that women

> >couldn't care less if they ever have sex again with their

husbands. I base

> >this on years and years of 'guy talk'.

> >

> >I figure that having a libido at all is about 50th on the list of

desired

> >qualities women desire. Right after #49 (Ability to kill

spiders.) and

> >right before #51 (Ability to sort trash into proper recycling

containers.)

> >

> > (|-|ri5

> >

> > > I think men assume men's libido is more valuable to women

> > > than it is.

> > >

> >

[Guest guest]

Apropos.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Aspirin robs males of libido

Caution urged for pregnant women as rats bear frigid sons.

24 May 2004

HELEN R. PILCHER

Expectant mothers who take aspirin may produce sons with unusually low libidos,

a rat study suggests. It is not known whether a similar effect occurs in humans,

but the research reinforces the need for prudence when taking any medication

during pregnancy.

Pregnant rats supped on water laced with soluble aspirin for two weeks around

the time they gave birth. But as their sons matured, their sex drives didn't.

The males were slower at initiating sex than normal littermates, taking two to

three times longer to mount females. They were also less likely to penetrate

females and less likely to ejaculate, the researchers report in Nature

Neuroscience1.

Mothers took a dose each day that was equivalent to the dose a human would take

for a headache. Even so, " I don't think there's any need to panic, " says

psychologist Marc Breedlove from Michigan State University, who was not involved

in the study. " It is a subtle effect even in rats, but it is a reminder for

pregnant women to use caution. "

Pill poppers

Aspirin lowers levels of prostaglandins, a group of chemicals known to affect

cell signalling and inflammation. This is the first time that prostaglandins

have been implicated in brain development, says the study's co-author, Margaret

McCarthy from the University of land, Baltimore.

But several other over-the-counter medicines also affect prostaglandins.

Millions of people regularly take drugs to counter stomach ulcers, pain and

arthritis, and many of these lower prostaglandin levels.

" There are many different prostaglandins, doing a lot of things that we don't

understand, " says McCarthy. The new result highlights the need to develop drugs

that target specific prostaglandins, so unwanted side-effects can be avoided,

she says.

Gender bender

The study sheds light on how brains become either male or female. Early in

development, the brains of both sexes are identical. But later on, differences

emerge. For example, a region called the sexually dimorphic nucleus is up to

seven times larger in male brains than in female.

The brain of a fetus becomes male as the gonads pump out male sex hormones,

flooding the brain with testosterone. In turn this is converted to estrogen,

which leads to the development of male characteristics. But just how estrogen

triggers masculinization is not known.

Because drugs that lower prostaglandin levels inhibit the development of male

sexual behaviour, McCarthy believes that prostaglandins must be involved in

telling the brain to turn into one sex or the other.

Her team carried out a second experiment that supports this theory. The team

wanted to know how increased prostaglandin levels would affect female

development, so they injected newborn female rat pups with a type of

prostaglandin called PGE2. When the animals grew up their sexual behaviour was

similar to that of males, as they mounted other females and pretended to mate

with them.

Their brain structure was also subtly different. PGE2-treated female rats had

more nerve communication terminals, known as synapses, in the brain area related

to sexual function. So the researchers think that prostaglandins affect

behaviour by altering the brain's wiring.

Drugs that raise prostaglandin levels are sometimes given to infants with a

particular type of heart defect. Care should be taken to make sure these drugs

do not have any untoward effects, McCarthy warns.

References

1. Amateau, S. K. & McCarthy, M. M. Nature Neurosci, 7, 643 - 650,

doi:10.1038/nn1254(2004). |Article|

© Nature News Service / Macmillan Magazines Ltd 2004

http://www.nature.com/nsu/040517/040517-14.html

>

>

>

>

> When I saw, " we are getting personal here " , my eyes opened wide.

>

> Then when I read the remainder, it was a good opening sentence!

>

>

>

> Yes, CR can help personal relationships and improve marital

>

> harmony, and make the match up a little more even-keeled.

>

> CR can have " an upside " , as 's remarks indicate.

>

>

>

> Some have commented that this effect of moderating and smoothing

>

> libido is exhilarating and liberating, and one of the most

>

> pleasant and valuable effects of CR.  Of course, CR will help to

>

> retain libido too into old age, as is proven in the laboratory.

>

> The CR mice are still fecund, even after the adlib mice are dead.

>

>

>

> -- Warren

>

>

>

> ===========================

>

> On 02 June 2004, wrote:

>

>

>

> Since we're getting personal here, I am of the impression that most

>

> men have a higher libido than most women. This is based on many, many

>

> years of girl talk with women that don't necessarily pull punches. I

>

> would think the best scenario is one where a man and women have

>

> libidos that are close to equal. A minor difference would not be a

>

> big deal. I think men assume men's libido is more valuable to women

>

> than it is. Kind of like baldness. Many women like bald men, but men

>

> seem to not believe this. Some reduction in libido for men might be a

>

> very positive thing for relationships.

>

>

>

> ly, most women would appreciate more emotional attention and

>

> general companionship from the men in their life. Can you other women

>

> on the list verify this? My impression is that a high male libido

>

> tends to interfere with other aspects of male/female relationships.

>

> If you don't let a reduced libido make you generally ignore your

>

> female companions, then I'm not sure there is a problem.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Just to clarify. I am not concerned about minor changes in libido.

But I am concerned about the complete disappearance of it.

From what I gather complete disappearance is reported by some

participants on other CR web sites. It would be really helpful if we

had a source that could provide a decent picture of the data in this

regard. I.E. how frequently does total disappearance occur in

serious male CRON practitioners of various ages?

Rodney.

>

> Since we're getting personal here, I am of the impression that most

> men have a higher libido than most women. This is based on many,

many

> years of girl talk with women that don't necessarily pull punches.

I

> would think the best scenario is one where a man and women have

> libidos that are close to equal. A minor difference would not be a

> big deal. I think men assume men's libido is more valuable to women

> than it is. Kind of like baldness. Many women like bald men, but

men

> seem to not believe this. Some reduction in libido for men might be

a

> very positive thing for relationships.

>

> ly, most women would appreciate more emotional attention and

> general companionship from the men in their life. Can you other

women

> on the list verify this? My impression is that a high male libido

> tends to interfere with other aspects of male/female relationships.

> If you don't let a reduced libido make you generally ignore your

> female companions, then I'm not sure there is a problem.

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca:

Thanks for that reassurance. However, I would be more comfortable

about the issue if I saw some data covering a significant number of

people regarding degree of restriction (daily calories, or other

measure if considered more relevant), age (since age is associated

with loss of enthusiasm and/or ability independently of CR), and

associated degree of loss of libido, if any.

Since ability is inversely related to narrowing of arteries (and

Viagra helps open up restricted arteries, I believe) CR, in helping

clean up clogged arteries, might be associated with increased

ability .... possibly. In addition to a slower rate of decline in

DHEA.

But without some data all this is theoretical and therefore next to

useless, IMO (fwiw).

Rodney.

>

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Just to clarify. I am not concerned about minor changes in

libido.

> > But I am concerned about the complete disappearance of it.

> >

> > From what I gather complete disappearance is reported by some

> > participants on other CR web sites. It would be really helpful

if we

> > had a source that could provide a decent picture of the data in

this

> > regard. I.E. how frequently does total disappearance occur in

> > serious male CRON practitioners of various ages?

> >

> > Rodney.