Re: Dark chocolate is good for the heart

[Guest guest]

I eat my yummy pudding with Warren's cocoa before noon now or I'm staring at the ceiling way into the night!! Peg

[Guest guest]

Larger daily doses are not so good (at least for me). I have recently

realized that chocolate in more than the tiniest doses makes me lethargic

and somewhat depressed for a day or two afterward. Also gives me even more

trouble sleeping than I already have (probably due to the large amt of

caffeine). I have experimented several times and now have no doubt that

cocoa or chocolate is the culprit. I hope this revelation is helpful to

others but YMMV. Anyone else have trouble with chocolate or any comments ?

Of course in very large doses a very common reaction to chocolate is

constipation.

Ironically, one of the dishes I'm bringing to today's local DC Cronie

meeting is strawberries with low cal-no sugar chocolate sauce.

on 6/13/2004 12:42 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> So if small daily doses of dark chocolate are shown to be beneficial

> in as little as two weeks, imagine what larger daily doses of

> Warren's DE-FATTED cocoa powder could do for you over longer

> periods! YUM!

>

> Rodney.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe nothing, or maybe something bad. The common extrapolation that if a

little of something is good than more must be better is often faulty, thus

the upper limits for most fat soluble vitamins.

Regarding chocolate, a recent book I read about cooking science pointed out

one negative to chocolate is that oxalic acid binds to calcium in milk

making it unavailable to the body.

I already eat a small daily dose of chocolate (one " Sherm's binging

brownie " ). I am not inclined to increase or decrease that. I assume that

chocolate is like so many other foods with positive and negative aspects.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...]

Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:42 AM

Subject: [ ] " Dark chocolate is good for the heart "

http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-detail.cfm?

reutersid=4423 & nl=4

http://snipurl.com/71us

" Researchers from the University of California -- San Francisco found

that small daily doses of dark chocolate, eaten over a two-week

period, improved the blood vessels' ability to dilate. Improved

dilation improves blood flow, which is good for the heart. Better

circulation can lower blood pressure and reduce the heart's workload. "

So if small daily doses of dark chocolate are shown to be beneficial

in as little as two weeks, imagine what larger daily doses of

Warren's DE-FATTED cocoa powder could do for you over longer

periods! YUM!

Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Now that you mention it, yes. I respond that way when I get too much

coffee. And I have tried putting the cocoa in with some coffee. I

LEARNED that I have to dilute the coffee a LOT by adding a lot of water

when I do that. I don't get jittery, just tired like you say. I didn't

pay attention to the day after effect, but recovery the same day takes a

while. I theorize some relationship with restriction of blood vessels.

Francesca Skelton wrote:

>Larger daily doses are not so good (at least for me). I have recently realized

that chocolate in more than the tiniest doses makes me lethargic and somewhat

depressed for a day or two afterward. Also gives me even more

>trouble sleeping than I already have (probably due to the large amt of

caffeine). I have experimented several times and now have no doubt that cocoa

or chocolate is the culprit. I hope this revelation is helpful to

>others but YMMV. Anyone else have trouble with chocolate or any comments ?

>

>Of course in very large doses a very common reaction to chocolate is

constipation.

>

>Ironically, one of the dishes I'm bringing to today's local DC Cronie meeting

is strawberries with low cal-no sugar chocolate sauce.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was asked off list to provide the recipe for Sherm's brownies

http://recipes.calorierestriction.org/r.view?_mode=details & r=241

Over the years I have changed it some, due to availability of ingredients,

and from time to time I'll mix it up just for variety. Last time I threw in

a little coconut, I've substituted sprouts for the endive when I couldn't

get them. Have fun but try it to the recipe first invested a lot of

time in tweaking it.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: john roberts [mailto:johnhrob@...]

Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 12:07 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] " Dark chocolate is good for the heart "

Maybe nothing, or maybe something bad. The common extrapolation that if a

little of something is good than more must be better is often faulty, thus

the upper limits for most fat soluble vitamins.

Regarding chocolate, a recent book I read about cooking science pointed out

one negative to chocolate is that oxalic acid binds to calcium in milk

making it unavailable to the body.

I already eat a small daily dose of chocolate (one " Sherm's binging

brownie " ). I am not inclined to increase or decrease that. I assume that

chocolate is like so many other foods with positive and negative aspects.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...]

Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:42 AM

Subject: [ ] " Dark chocolate is good for the heart "

http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-detail.cfm?

reutersid=4423 & nl=4

http://snipurl.com/71us

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[Guest guest]

It's interesting that several people are reporting this super stimulation by

chocolate.

As you know chocolate contains the stimulants caffeine, theobromine,

methylxanthines, and phenylethylamine. I have read that normally one would have

to eat the equivalent of 12 Hershey bars to get as much caffeine as there is in

one cup of coffee. Surely there's not that much chocolate (caffeine) in Warren's

cocoa, is there?

It makes one wonder if advanced CRON makes a person more sensitive to stimulants

than the average ad libber. Maybe hypersensitivity to stimulants is another

marker for CRON?

> I eat my yummy pudding with Warren's cocoa before noon now or I'm staring at

>

> the ceiling way into the night!! Peg

>

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This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

[Guest guest]

Many people do not realize how labor intensive chocolate is to make.

The following is taken from the website from Center for a New

Ameircan Dream and has links to fairly traded chocolate:

http://www.newdream.org/consumer/cocoa.html

" Most of our chocolate comes from the Ivory Coast region of West

Africa, where cocoa production is an enormous part of the economy. In

Ghana, 40 percent of the country's export revenues come from the sale

of cocoa. Unfortunately, very little of the profit goes to the

farmers who grow the cocoa beans. Cocoa farmers receive about a penny

for a candy bar selling for 60 cents.

In fact, the difficulty in making a living at cocoa farming has

spawned an increase in child and even slave labor drawn from poor

neighboring countries such as Mali, Burkina Faso, Benin and Togo.

Children and other workers are forced to work long days picking and

processing cocoa beans (it takes 400 of these pods to make just one

pound of chocolate). Very few of the children have the opportunity to

attend school.

Fair Trade cocoa offers farmers an opportunity to make a real living.

The Fair Trade Certified production criteria guarantee a minimum

price and insure that no child or forced labor is used. "

Peace,

> " Researchers from the University of California -- San Francisco

found

> that small daily doses of dark chocolate, eaten over a two-week

> period, improved the blood vessels' ability to dilate. Improved

> dilation improves blood flow, which is good for the heart. Better

> circulation can lower blood pressure and reduce the heart's

workload. "

>

> So if small daily doses of dark chocolate are shown to be

beneficial

> in as little as two weeks, imagine what larger daily doses of

> Warren's DE-FATTED cocoa powder could do for you over longer

> periods! YUM!

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the great reference Rodney. This study on how cocoa

(dark chocolate) improves blood flow is brand newly published.

It should be bias-free. It was NOT funded by the cocoa industry.

Here is the Univ of Calif at San Francisco tech reference:

http://pub.ucsf.edu/newsservices/releases/200405267/

The study was the longest-term study ever performed.

There was a control group who ate chocolate low in

bioflavenoids. The control group experienced no benefit.

A blended cocoa will give better bioflavenoids. The best

is a defatted cocoa powder (not candy bars!), which has as

few as only 10 Cal/TBL.

-- Warren

=======================

On 13 June 2004, Rodney wrote:

>

>

http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-detail.cfm?reutersi

d=4423 & nl=4

>

> http://snipurl.com/71us

>

> " Researchers from the University of California -- San Francisco found

> that small daily doses of dark chocolate, eaten over a two-week

> period, improved the blood vessels' ability to dilate. Improved

> dilation improves blood flow, which is good for the heart. Better

> circulation can lower blood pressure and reduce the heart's workload. "

>

> So if small daily doses of dark chocolate are shown to be beneficial

> in as little as two weeks, imagine what larger daily doses of

> Warren's DE-FATTED cocoa powder could do for you over longer

> periods! YUM!

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Interesting information. I notice that Rodney recommends your

(Warren's) defatted cocoa powder as a good source of chocolate with

better bioflavenoids. Does one drink this as in hot cocoa? Any

suggestions on where we can purchase (at grocers, for example) cocoa

like this? What brands? I've been, occasionally following

Weil's suggestion regarding eating very small portions (1-2 oz a

day) of dark chocolate. But Dr. Weil doesn't recommend a brand. Now,

after reading the linked article, and an article at

www.chocolateinfo.com, I'm wondering if the dark chocolate I

purchased is high or low in flavenoids.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Marilyn

> >

> >

> http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-

detail.cfm?reutersi

> d=4423 & nl=4

> >

> > http://snipurl.com/71us

> >

> > " Researchers from the University of California -- San Francisco

found

> > that small daily doses of dark chocolate, eaten over a two-week

> > period, improved the blood vessels' ability to dilate. Improved

> > dilation improves blood flow, which is good for the heart.

Better

> > circulation can lower blood pressure and reduce the heart's

workload. "

> >

> > So if small daily doses of dark chocolate are shown to be

beneficial

> > in as little as two weeks, imagine what larger daily doses of

> > Warren's DE-FATTED cocoa powder could do for you over longer

> > periods! YUM!

> >

> > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hi Marilyn:

Contact Warren off-list. You can get the de-fatted cocoa from him.

Rodney.

> > >

> > >

> > http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-

> detail.cfm?reutersi

> > d=4423 & nl=4

> > >

> > > http://snipurl.com/71us

> > >

> > > " Researchers from the University of California -- San Francisco

> found

> > > that small daily doses of dark chocolate, eaten over a two-week

> > > period, improved the blood vessels' ability to dilate. Improved

> > > dilation improves blood flow, which is good for the heart.

> Better

> > > circulation can lower blood pressure and reduce the heart's

> workload. "

> > >

> > > So if small daily doses of dark chocolate are shown to be

> beneficial

> > > in as little as two weeks, imagine what larger daily doses of

> > > Warren's DE-FATTED cocoa powder could do for you over longer

> > > periods! YUM!

> > >

> > > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Chocolate does not contain caffeine. It is an urban legend.

CRON could make you more hypersensitive to akaloid stimulants due to

chronically elevated cortisol levels. So there's less of a buffer to

deal with the stress. Has any else had their cortisol levels tested?

I've found Yerba Mate tea to be the only akaloid stimulant without

any negative side-effects. The noradrenaline precursors work too,

but it is not too economical to drink throughout the day.

Logan

> As you know chocolate contains the stimulants caffeine, theobromine,

> methylxanthines, and phenylethylamine. I have read that normally

one would have

> to eat the equivalent of 12 Hershey bars to get as much caffeine as

there is in

> one cup of coffee. Surely there's not that much chocolate

(caffeine) in Warren's

> cocoa, is there?

>

> It makes one wonder if advanced CRON makes a person more sensitive

to stimulants

> than the average ad libber. Maybe hypersensitivity to stimulants is

another

> marker for CRON?

[Guest guest]

>>Chocolate does not contain caffeine. It is an urban legend.

Chocolate does contain caffeine..

The following information is from Bowes and Church's Food values of portions

commonly used, by De Planter Bowes. Lippincott, Phila. 1989. Pages 261-2:

Caffeine.

Candy:

Chocolate mg caffeine

baking choc, unsweetened, Bakers--1 oz(28 g) 25

german sweet, Bakers -- 1 oz (28 g) 8

semi-sweet, Bakers -- 1 oz (28 g) 13

Choc chips

Bakers -- 1/4 cup (43 g) 13

german sweet, Bakers -- 1/4 cup (43 g) 15

Chocolate bar, Cadbury -- 1 oz (28 g) 15

Chocolate milk 8oz 8

Desserts:

Jello Pudding Pops, Choc (47 g) 2

Choc mousse from Jell-O mix (95 g) 6

Jello choc fudge mousse (86 g) 12

Beverages

3 heaping teaspoons of choc powder mix 8

2 tablespoons choc syrup 5

1 envelope hot cocoa mix 5

Also...

Prog Clin Biol Res. 1984;158:149-78.

Methylxanthine composition and consumption patterns of cocoa and chocolate

products.

Shively CA, Tarka SM Jr.

This chapter has compiled and evaluated the current information on the

methylxanthine composition of cocoa and various chocolate foods and beverages,

as well as the consumption pattern for these commodities. Although the earliest

recorded reference to cacao was in 1502, it was not until 1876 that milk

chocolate was invented, an event that formed the backbone of the chocolate

industry today. The consumption of cocoa throughout the world has been

influenced by a number of factors, and the period of peak consumption occurred

during the early to mid-1960s when these factors were highly favorable. The

greatest consumption of cocoa in metric tons over the past 10 yr has been in the

United States, although the highest per capita consumer during this period was

Switzerland. The African continent has been historically the primary producer of

raw cocoa, with the Ivory Coast currently being the largest individual supplier.

Limited marketing survey data is available for the consumption of

methylxanthines in chocolate foods and beverages. In children and teenagers, the

major dietary source of caffeine was found to be tea, followed by soft drinks

and coffee, respectively. Although chocolate foods and beverages ranked the

lowest of these dietary sources to provide caffeine, they do constitute the

major source of dietary theobromine. Cacao is the major natural source of the

xanthine base theobromine. Small amounts of caffeine are present in the bean

along with trace amounts of theophylline. The methylxanthine content of beans

varies with the varietal type, and is influenced by the fermentation process.

Chocolate liquor is a semifinished product commonly called " baking " or " cooking "

chocolate. The average theobromine and caffeine content of liquors has been

reported at 1.2% and 0.21%, respectively. Cocoa powder, which is prepared after

removal of the cocoa butter, contains about 1.9% theobromine and 0.21% caffeine.

Chocolate beverages comprise the most widely studied category of chocolate

products. Hot cocoa provides 62 mg/serving of theobromine and 4 mg/serving of

caffeine when prepared from commercial instant mixes. Instant cold chocolate

milk mixes supply an average of 58 mg/serving of theobromine and 5 mg/serving of

caffeine. The methylxanthine content of chocolate foods has received only slight

attention in the literature. The methylxanthine content of sweet chocolate

ranges from 0.359 to 0.628% for theobromine and 0.017 to 0.125% for

caffeine.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)

>>I've found Yerba Mate tea to be the only akaloid stimulant without

any negative side-effects.

Yerba Mate alos contains caffeine.

J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Aug 14;50(17):4820-6. Related Articles, Links

Extraction of methylxanthines from guarana seeds, mate leaves, and cocoa beans

using supercritical carbon dioxide and ethanol.

Saldana MD, Zetzl C, Mohamed RS, Brunner G.

New experimental data on the extraction of caffeine from guarana seeds and mate

tea leaves, and theobromine from cocoa beans, with supercritical CO2 were

obtained using a high-pressure extraction apparatus. The effect of the addition

of ethanol to carbon dioxide on the extraction efficiency was also investigated.

Caffeine extraction yields of 98% of the initial caffeine content in both wet

ground guarana seeds and mate tea leaves were obtained. Extractions of caffeine

from guarana seeds and mate tea leaves also exhibited a retrograde behavior for

the two temperatures considered in this work. In the removal of theobromine from

cocoa beans, a much smaller extraction yield was obtained with longer extraction

periods and consequently larger solvent requirements. The results of this study

confirm the higher selectivity of CO2 for caffeine in comparison with that for

theobromine, and also the influence of other components in each particular

natural product on the extraction of methylxanthines. The effect of the addition

of ethanol to carbon dioxide on the extraction of methylxanthines was

significant, particularly in the extraction of theobromine from cocoa beans. In

general, the use of ethanol results in lower solvent and energy requirements and

thereby improved extraction efficiency.

[Guest guest]

> Chocolate does contain caffeine.

Some references claim that chocolate has .2% of caffeine but it is

inaccurate. Some references don't properly distinguish between

natural and added caffeine. Some references don't properly

distinguish between theobromine and caffeine due to having similar

structures. Some references show caffeine as an ingredient, but it

is actually in microscopic, inactive amounts.

Nonetheless, let me rephrase my original statements. The dominating

akaloid in chocolate (theobromine) and yerba mate (xanthine) is NOT

caffeine, thus they have noticeably different effects on the body

than caffeine-dominating beverages.

Logan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/16/2004 12:58:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, beneathremains@... writes:

The dominating

akaloid in chocolate (theobromine) and yerba mate (xanthine) is NOT

caffeine, thus they have noticeably different effects on the body

than caffeine-dominating beverages.

You could've fooled me. Peg

[Guest guest]

Just trying to clairfy.

I understand that the " dominating " alkaloid in chocolate and mate may not be

caffeine. I was under the impression that was well understood and was not

disagreeing. I am also aware of some of the " myths " around it, such as some of

these alkaloids being " stereo-isomers " of caffeine, which is chemically

impossible.

However, several of the studies I have looked at differentiated between the

different alkaloids and have identified caffeine in both of them. Mate

beverages I " beleive " are required to state that they do contain caffeine now.

I will check on this one to be sure.

But they both do have caffeine in them, which you said was an urban myth, not

that it wasnt the " dominating " alkaloid.

>>some references show caffeine as an ingredient, but it is actually in

microscopic, inactive amounts.

I would agree that the " dose makes the poison " but I wouldnt agree that small

amounts of a active alkaloid, make it inactive. It may not be enough to produce

an effect, but its still active. The amounts in some of the references seemed to

be more than microscopic

Thanks

jeff

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Here is another source for caffeine in chocolate. It says there is a

range of 5 to 35 mg of caffeine per ounce of semi-sweet dark

chocolate. It gives the original source as the FDA.

http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/dp_fnut/_timely/CAFFEINE.htm

And the 'Mars' website says 50 g of dark chocolate contains between

10 and 60 mg of caffeine per ounce, as well as 250 mg of theobromine.

http://www.chocolateinfo.com/cf/cf_article_02.jsp

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> Just trying to clairfy.

>

> I understand that the " dominating " alkaloid in chocolate and mate

may not be caffeine. I was under the impression that was well

understood and was not disagreeing. I am also aware of some of

the " myths " around it, such as some of these alkaloids being " stereo-

isomers " of caffeine, which is chemically impossible.

>

> However, several of the studies I have looked at differentiated

between the different alkaloids and have identified caffeine in both

of them. Mate beverages I " beleive " are required to state that they

do contain caffeine now. I will check on this one to be sure.

>

> But they both do have caffeine in them, which you said was an urban

myth, not that it wasnt the " dominating " alkaloid.

>

> >>some references show caffeine as an ingredient, but it is

actually in microscopic, inactive amounts.

>

> I would agree that the " dose makes the poison " but I wouldnt agree

that small amounts of a active alkaloid, make it inactive. It may

not be enough to produce an effect, but its still active. The amounts

in some of the references seemed to be more than microscopic

>

> Thanks

> jeff