Re: Whey; was: Protein - Now I am confused!

[Guest guest]

This is great for those looking to lose body fat. Other anecdotal stories

reported the same with links to dietary calcium. Here is one such study

from PubMed that supports such a phenomenon. http://snipurl.com/714e

My interest in whey is for the calcium (allergic to casein/milk). Would

you mind sharing how you eat your whey & if you have a preference for

how the whey is processed? I mix with water & sometimes fruit... but

plan to explore other options.

jwwright wrote:

I think I'm allergic to "it" too,

because the weight loss is more than I expected.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi Apricot:

Do we know, for the 'high dairy' supplemented diet in your link, the

form of the dairy products added? Whey? Casein? Skim?

Whole? ..........

Rodney.

>

> > I think I'm allergic to " it " too, because the weight loss is more

than

> > I expected.

> >

> > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Rodney, I do not have the full paper, only the abstract in the link.

Here is more on the subject from one of the same researcers:

http://snipurl.com/71l6 Both summaries identify the key point of

dietary calcium from dairy sources, rather than a specific food. Since

the scientists that conducted the research also wrote the paper &

summary, I have to trust that they say what they mean.

It seems to me that this study says something similar:

http://snipurl.com/71le

Rodney wrote:

>Hi Apricot:

>

>Do we know, for the 'high dairy' supplemented diet in your link, the form of

the dairy products added? Whey? Casein? Skim? Whole? ..........

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Apricot:

Thank you. Very interesting. So in that study what happened to the

calories consumed by the dairy product eaters, that are no longer in

the form of adipose tissue? Were they converted to bone or muscle?

(Desirable, but unlikely I would think). Were they burnt off via a

higher body temperature, or thinking faster? (That could be

considered undesirable). Were they perhaps never absorbed in the

intestine in the first place (if so this would imply that milk

products diminish intestinal absorption - interesting if true).

For certain, if I understand correctly what they are saying, those

calories must have gone SOMEWHERE. So for us here, who would like to

have more bone/muscle mass and less fat, this may have considerable

relevance - which is, of course, why you posted it in the first

place! Hmmmmm.

Rodney.

--- In , apricot85 <apricot85@a...>

wrote:

> Rodney, I do not have the full paper, only the abstract in the

link.

> Here is more on the subject from one of the same researcers:

> http://snipurl.com/71l6 Both summaries identify the key point of

> dietary calcium from dairy sources, rather than a specific food.

Since

> the scientists that conducted the research also wrote the paper &

> summary, I have to trust that they say what they mean.

>

> It seems to me that this study says something similar:

> http://snipurl.com/71le

[Guest guest]

Hi Apricot:

From reading the abstract I am not certain that another possibility

might not be that the consumption of milk products diminished

appetite and overall caloric intake, and thereby adipose tissue.

Rodney.

> > Rodney, I do not have the full paper, only the abstract in the

> link.

> > Here is more on the subject from one of the same researcers:

> > http://snipurl.com/71l6 Both summaries identify the key point

of

> > dietary calcium from dairy sources, rather than a specific

food.

> Since

> > the scientists that conducted the research also wrote the paper &

> > summary, I have to trust that they say what they mean.

> >

> > It seems to me that this study says something similar:

> > http://snipurl.com/71le

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Rodney, I can send the pdf if you wish to see it.

When you say energy not in adipose tissue is in bones or muscle, may

overlook other organs such as liver and intestines.

Cheers, Al Pater.

> > > Rodney, I do not have the full paper, only the abstract in the

> > link.

> > > Here is more on the subject from one of the same researcers:

> > > http://snipurl.com/71l6 Both summaries identify the key point

> of

> > > dietary calcium from dairy sources, rather than a specific

> food.

> > Since

> > > the scientists that conducted the research also wrote the paper

&

> > > summary, I have to trust that they say what they mean.

> > >

> > > It seems to me that this study says something similar:

> > > http://snipurl.com/71le

[Guest guest]

Hi Al:

Yes please, I would very much like to see the details of what they

did. The pdf would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Rodney.

(If I learn anything more from it I will post my conclusions)

> > > > Rodney, I do not have the full paper, only the abstract in

the

> > > link.

> > > > Here is more on the subject from one of the same researcers:

> > > > http://snipurl.com/71l6 Both summaries identify the key

point

> > of

> > > > dietary calcium from dairy sources, rather than a specific

> > food.

> > > Since

> > > > the scientists that conducted the research also wrote the

paper

> &

> > > > summary, I have to trust that they say what they mean.

> > > >

> > > > It seems to me that this study says something similar:

> > > > http://snipurl.com/71le

[Guest guest]

Me too, and I think I might eventually find how to do that. My comment about the "wheys" are that they are not whey. Just because they contain something derived from whey (the effluent from cheese making), does not mean they ARE whey. Most are "nutrient" preparations that may or may not be very good. I'm finding the additives make each product different from the other. And I haven't found whey "the effluent from cheese" sold.

What IS sold is a product, the result of filtering out the remaining small amount of protein from the predominantly lactose solution and addition of amino acids, vitamins and minerals. Then the lactose is converted by yeast that makes more protein. I think that's why the "fitness wheys" have increased isoleucine, leucine, and valine (the BCAAs).

It was reported by Dean that he lost weight and we pretty well figured out why, but not completely. I think there's another factor in the additives. I basically repeated what Dean experienced. If you eat the whey he ate, and you're at a CR intake, it MAYBE causes the loss of fat. BUT, I have a lot more aft than Dean and I havene't seen any large loss of that, while Dean, I'm sure does not have as much fat available to lose.

So did he lose fat or muscle? Don't know.

The "whey" I used is "Precision Engineered Whey Protein" form vitamin world (by U/S, Nutrition). I used a 22 gram scoop in 8 oz of milk, blended with fruit, morning and supper.

It took away the cold feeling, and weight loss was too fast for me.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: apricot85

Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 12:20 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Whey; was: Protein - Now I am confused!

This is great for those looking to lose body fat. Other anecdotal stories reported the same with links to dietary calcium. Here is one such study from PubMed that supports such a phenomenon. http://snipurl.com/714eMy interest in whey is for the calcium (allergic to casein/milk). Would you mind sharing how you eat your whey & if you have a preference for how the whey is processed? I mix with water & sometimes fruit... but plan to explore other options. jwwright wrote:

I think I'm allergic to "it" too, because the weight loss is more than I expected.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Regular sweet dairy whey is only 12% protein. It could be argued the

>=80% whey protein isolates act more like drugs than food due to the

anabolic effects.

I have personally found insufficient protein intake to be the cause

of being chronically cold. Sometimes I even feel my thyroid gland

buzzing after eating more protein than normal. However, I'm now

wondering if any CRONers have had their thyroid glands tested for

being underactive? It wouldn't surprise me given the number of

overweight people with slowed-down metabolisms and underactive

thyroid glands. A good question is, is an underactive thyroid gland

a good or bad effect in relation to calorie restriction?

It may be that with very little body fat and muscles already as a

CRONer, it doesn't take much to be anabolic from increased protein

quality/quantity to rev things up and burn the remaining fat off.

There are clearly different metabolic effects in the body depending

on the quality/quantity of protein consumed, but it seems to be

relative to other existing factors. e.g. If overweight/obese people

need to eat 50% of calories as protein to change their fat-conserving

metabolic state to a superior fat-burning state, the same would

likely kill a below-average-weight CRONer if it went on long enough.

Logan

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> Me too, and I think I might eventually find how to do that. My

comment about the " wheys " are that they are not whey. Just because

they contain something derived from whey (the effluent from cheese

making), does not mean they ARE whey. Most are " nutrient "

preparations that may or may not be very good. I'm finding the

additives make each product different from the other. And I haven't

found whey " the effluent from cheese " sold.

[Guest guest]

Hi Logan,

I've been taking synthroid for at least 10 yrs. My coldness was directly related to low fat intake, I am sure. But eating "precision engineered whey" did turn up the heat. Good for losing weight - not so good perhaps for lifespan.

I eat plenty of dairy protein and calcium.

Just my experience.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: beneathremains

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:47 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Whey; was: Protein - Now I am confused!

Regular sweet dairy whey is only 12% protein. It could be argued the >=80% whey protein isolates act more like drugs than food due to the anabolic effects.I have personally found insufficient protein intake to be the cause of being chronically cold. Sometimes I even feel my thyroid gland buzzing after eating more protein than normal. However, I'm now wondering if any CRONers have had their thyroid glands tested for being underactive? It wouldn't surprise me given the number of overweight people with slowed-down metabolisms and underactive thyroid glands. A good question is, is an underactive thyroid gland a good or bad effect in relation to calorie restriction? It may be that with very little body fat and muscles already as a CRONer, it doesn't take much to be anabolic from increased protein quality/quantity to rev things up and burn the remaining fat off. There are clearly different metabolic effects in the body depending on the quality/quantity of protein consumed, but it seems to be relative to other existing factors. e.g. If overweight/obese people need to eat 50% of calories as protein to change their fat-conserving metabolic state to a superior fat-burning state, the same would likely kill a below-average-weight CRONer if it went on long enough.Logan> Me too, and I think I might eventually find how to do that. My comment about the "wheys" are that they are not whey. Just because they contain something derived from whey (the effluent from cheese making), does not mean they ARE whey. Most are "nutrient" preparations that may or may not be very good. I'm finding the additives make each product different from the other. And I haven't found whey "the effluent from cheese" sold.

[Guest guest]

- In , " jwwright "

<jwwright@e...>

> wrote:

> Me too, and I think I might eventually find how to do that. My

> comment about the " wheys " are that they are not whey. Just

because

> they contain something derived from whey (the effluent from

cheese

> making), does not mean they ARE whey. Most are " nutrient "

> preparations that may or may not be very good. I'm finding the

> additives make each product different from the other. And I

haven't

> found whey " the effluent from cheese " sold.

Well the answer might be to do a bit of your own cheese-making.

It's been many years since I tried it but this thread about pure

whey is getting me motivated to try again.

Canary Peg

[Guest guest]

If I made cheese, I'd throw out the whey and eat the cheese.

I'd really like to get real cottage cheese again. I settle for ricotta.

Ten years ago the hot item was designer protein - soy, egg whites, even beef protein powder - about 10$+ per pound. Then came "whey" at half that.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Peg Diamond

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 2:13 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Whey; was: Protein - Now I am confused!

Well the answer might be to do a bit of your own cheese-making. It's been many years since I tried it but this thread about pure whey is getting me motivated to try again.Canary Peg

[Guest guest]

Remember the nursery rhyme " Little Miss Muffit " eating her curds

and whey. As a child I remember my mother making curd tarts

which I believe had currants in them. I'll have to get to my Bero

cookbook - online and see if theres a recipe there.

Canary Peg

> If I made cheese, I'd throw out the whey and eat the cheese.

> I'd really like to get real cottage cheese again. I settle for ricotta.

>

> Ten years ago the hot item was designer protein - soy, egg

whites, even beef protein powder - about 10$+ per pound. Then

came " whey " at half that.

>

[Guest guest]

I have made soft cheese from kefir and IMO it was remarkably good. Since I

rarely eat foods that I would put cream cheese on I didn't repeat the

experiment but it was pretty simple, just separate and drain the solids for

a few days in the refrigerator...

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Peg Diamond [mailto:enmuffins@...]

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 2:13 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Whey; was: Protein - Now I am confused!

- In , " jwwright "

<jwwright@e...>

> wrote:

> Me too, and I think I might eventually find how to do that. My

> comment about the " wheys " are that they are not whey. Just

because

> they contain something derived from whey (the effluent from

cheese

> making), does not mean they ARE whey. Most are " nutrient "

> preparations that may or may not be very good. I'm finding the

> additives make each product different from the other. And I

haven't

> found whey " the effluent from cheese " sold.

Well the answer might be to do a bit of your own cheese-making.

It's been many years since I tried it but this thread about pure

whey is getting me motivated to try again.

Canary Peg

________________________________________________________

This email has been scanned by Internet Pathway's Email

Gateway scanning system for potentially harmful content,

such as viruses or spam. Nothing out of the ordinary was

detected in this email. For more information, call

601-776-3355 or email support@...

________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Please see:

Serum T(3) and T(4) levels were lower in food-restricted animals

pointing out to a major role of thyroid hormones in the mechanism of

energy conservation exhibited by food-restricted animals.

Conclusions: The mechanism of energy conservation takes place in all

restricted animals and is very important for survival and for species

preservation, mainly in aged animals in which food restriction is

frequently aggravated by senescence-related organic disorders.

PMID: 15180791 [PubMed - in process]

In , " beneathremains "

<beneathremains@y...> wrote:

> Regular sweet dairy whey is only 12% protein. It could be argued

the

> >=80% whey protein isolates act more like drugs than food due to

the

> anabolic effects.

>

> I have personally found insufficient protein intake to be the cause

> of being chronically cold. Sometimes I even feel my thyroid gland

> buzzing after eating more protein than normal. However, I'm now

> wondering if any CRONers have had their thyroid glands tested for

> being underactive? It wouldn't surprise me given the number of

> overweight people with slowed-down metabolisms and underactive

> thyroid glands. A good question is, is an underactive thyroid

gland

> a good or bad effect in relation to calorie restriction?

>

> It may be that with very little body fat and muscles already as a

> CRONer, it doesn't take much to be anabolic from increased protein

> quality/quantity to rev things up and burn the remaining fat off.

> There are clearly different metabolic effects in the body depending

> on the quality/quantity of protein consumed, but it seems to be

> relative to other existing factors. e.g. If overweight/obese

people

> need to eat 50% of calories as protein to change their fat-

conserving

> metabolic state to a superior fat-burning state, the same would

> likely kill a below-average-weight CRONer if it went on long enough.

>

> Logan

>

>

> > Me too, and I think I might eventually find how to do that. My

> comment about the " wheys " are that they are not whey. Just because

> they contain something derived from whey (the effluent from cheese

> making), does not mean they ARE whey. Most are " nutrient "

> preparations that may or may not be very good. I'm finding the

> additives make each product different from the other. And I haven't

> found whey " the effluent from cheese " sold.