Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

[Guest guest]

>>>

From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

Date: Sat Jul 3, 2004 10:58 pm

Subject: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

[snip]

Are there nutrients, beyond straight calories, that we really do need

to get our appropriate allocation of weekly? Any thoughts?

Rodney.

>>>

My initial thought was that on a hot day, even if you had plenty of

water, the first deficiency would be in the electrolytes like sodium

and potassium since they would be eliminated in the sweat. Heat

exhaustion, which is characterized by cramps, etc., is normally a

deficiency of electrolytes. Hyponitremia is a common problem for

athletes who drink too much water without replacing salt. In a 12

hour endurance race, an athlete can lose 30 or 40 grams of salt.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa070703a.htm

My second thought was " are you a growing boy or girl? " . Growing

children have high protein requirements, and this is why kwashiorkor

is very common among children in famine areas.

The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy is a good source of a lot of

medical information, and it contains a section on nutritional

disorders which may address your question.

Main page:

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/sections.jsp

Nutritional Disorders:

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section1/sec1.jsp

1. Nutrition: General Considerations

2. Malnutrition

3. Vitamin Deficiency, Dependency, and Toxicity

4. Mineral Deficiency and Toxicity

5. Obesity

Chapter 12 has information on Water, Electrolyte, Mineral, And

Acid-Base Metabolism, including hyponatremia.

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section2/chapter12/12a.jsp

Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi folks

First at all I apologize for my english. Let me introduce my self ( sortly) I'm a 57 y/old men from Argentina, medical doctor working on nephrology, dialysis and kidney transplantation field, and during last years very entusiastic learning about mind and body relationship (PNIE).I'd been suffering a very stressful activity and develop a cronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia and metabolic syndrome ( TC 270, TG 270 mg%. HDL colest 35. vascular calcifications from lumbar aortic and pelvic arteries 86 kg of BW BMI 29 WC 96. I received sertraline and atorvastatin during 2000-2002 period with regular results.

On december 2002 I began a form of CR diet that consist on partial meal replacement with dietary supplements ( N.American origin) with fructose as carb and pure soy protein, plus fiber and herbs, vitamins and mineral, traces elements requieriments coverered. In 3 months I lose 10 kg. more energy left all medicines, actual colest.175 mg% HDL 48 mg% TG 112 mg%.

I'm going now by 10 kg more.

This was a simple way to get a CR benefits without worry about a complicated diet prescription. The supplement contents allow me to rest about my nutrients incomes, I now that the company have a great group of colleagues implicated in the development of this food( including a Nobel laureates one).

I'm convinced that we have to make this approach very simple for all the people, my tougth about is that partial meal replacement wit a formula wiht very low calorie density and a high nutrients one is the simple one.

As M.D, I found a very effective way to construct a very healthy people whitout colateral damage, and really it's amazing. Now as Hipocrates said I recomend all my patients and friends and famility " the food has to be your medicine and not the medicine you food ".

Regards

O.Franco

Buenos Aires

Argentina

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:58 PM

Subject: [ ] Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi folks:Here is an issue I have not seen discussed here. Can anyone enlighten us as to whether there any nutrients (apart from air and water) for which the body's storage capacity is so low that they should be consumed with great frequency?Say we ate just corn starch (the near perfect source of empty calories!) to fully satisfy our need for energy, what nutrients would we become deficient in first, and how soon would that be?As an example, three months without vitamin C precipitates scurvy. But I am thinking rather more short term than three months. Are there nutrients, beyond straight calories, that we really do need to get our appropriate allocation of weekly? Any thoughts? Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hi .  Thank you for sharing your story.  Congratulations on your success

with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia & metabolic syndrome.  These are very

difficult to manage, & I compliment you on your efforts to pursue relief

with diet.  The foods you eat are consistent with other information I've

read in the matter.  Most effective are the foods that you eliminate from

the diet (such as gluten, sulfites, casein).  I and others on this list have

had to eliminate certain foods to avoid similar related conditions.  Good

luck to you.  

Orfilio Franco wrote:

Hi folks

 First at all I apologize for my english. Let me introduce

my self ( sortly) I'm a 57 y/old men from Argentina, medical doctor working

on nephrology, dialysis and kidney transplantation field, and during last

years very enthusiastic learning about mind and body relationship (PNIE).I'd

been suffering a very stressful activity and develop a cronic fatigue syndrome,

fibromyalgia and metabolic syndrome ( TC 270, TG 270 mg%. HDL colest 35.

vascular calcifications from lumbar aortic and pelvic arteries 86 kg of

BW BMI 29 WC 96. I received sertraline and atorvastatin during 2000-2002

period with regular results.

On december 2002 I began a form of CR diet that consist

on partial meal replacement with dietary supplements ( N.American origin)

with fructose as carb and pure soy protein, plus fiber and herbs, vitamins

and mineral, traces elements requieriments coverered. In 3 months I lose

10 kg. more energy left all medicines, actual colest.175 mg% HDL 48 mg%

TG 112 mg%.

I'm going now by 10 kg more.

This was a simple way to get a CR benefits without

worry about a complicated diet prescription. The supplement contents allow

me to rest about my nutrients incomes, I now that the company have a great

group of colleagues implicated in the development of this food( including

a Nobel laureates one).

I'm convinced that we have to make this approach very

simple for all the people, my tougth about is that partial meal replacement

wit a formula wiht very low calorie density and a high nutrients one is

the simple one.

As M.D, I found a very effective way to construct a

very healthy people whitout colateral damage, and really it's amazing. Now

as Hipocrates said  I recomend all my patients and friends and famility "

the food has to be your medicine and not the medicine you food ".

Regards

O.Franco

Buenos Aires

Argentina

[Guest guest]

I find your experience very interesting for three reasons. According

to the Life Extension Foundation:

1) Isolated fructose can increase triglycerides, yet your TG levels

decreased.

2) Isolated fructose can cause glycation up to 10 times faster than

glucose. (This could be significant because Type I diabetics

allegedly have glycation occuring 4 times faster than non-diabetics,

hence a primary cause of their rapid aging and early death.)

3) Isolated fructose can cause copper deficiency.

Unfortunately, they don't provide any references for these statements.

Logan

> Hi folks

> On december 2002 I began a form of CR diet that consist on partial

meal replacement with dietary supplements ( N.American origin) with

fructose as carb and pure soy protein, plus fiber and herbs, vitamins

and mineral, traces elements requieriments coverered. In 3 months I

lose 10 kg. more energy left all medicines, actual colest.175 mg% HDL

48 mg% TG 112 mg%.

> I'm going now by 10 kg more.

> This was a simple way to get a CR benefits without worry about a

complicated diet prescription. The supplement contents allow me to

rest about my nutrients incomes, I now that the company have a great

group of colleagues implicated in the development of this food(

including a Nobel laureates one).

> I'm convinced that we have to make this approach very simple for

all the people, my tougth about is that partial meal replacement wit

a formula wiht very low calorie density and a high nutrients one is

the simple one.

> As M.D, I found a very effective way to construct a very healthy

people whitout colateral damage, and really it's amazing. Now as

Hipocrates said I recomend all my patients and friends and

famility " the food has to be your medicine and not the medicine you

food " .

> Regards

> O.Franco

> Buenos Aires

> Argentina

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Rodney

>

> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:58 PM

> Subject: [ ] Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

>

>

> Hi folks:

>

> Here is an issue I have not seen discussed here. Can anyone

> enlighten us as to whether there any nutrients (apart from air

and

> water) for which the body's storage capacity is so low that they

> should be consumed with great frequency?

>

> Say we ate just corn starch (the near perfect source of empty

> calories!) to fully satisfy our need for energy, what nutrients

would

> we become deficient in first, and how soon would that be?

>

> As an example, three months without vitamin C precipitates

scurvy.

> But I am thinking rather more short term than three months. Are

> there nutrients, beyond straight calories, that we really do need

to

> get our appropriate allocation of weekly? Any thoughts?

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Thank you for that interesting post. Some questions:

1) What do you use, on this diet, as your source of fat? And how

much of it per day?

2) How much soy protein per day?

3) How much fructose per day?

4) How do you make sure you get all the micro-nutrients (vitamins,

trace elements) that you need? Are they supplied in the " dietary

supplements " to which you refer? If so, then what is the name of the

supplement, please?

The diet you describe reminds me of Dr. Spindler's mice. They ate

soybean oil for fat; casein for protein; either starch or sucrose for

carbohydrate; and a 'chemically defined' diet for all the vitamins

and trace elements. And they seemed to survive quite well on this!

Rodney.

> On december 2002 I began a form of CR diet that consist on partial

meal replacement with dietary supplements ( N.American origin) with

fructose as carb and pure soy protein, plus fiber and herbs, vitamins

and mineral, traces elements requieriments coverered. In 3 months I

lose 10 kg. more energy left all medicines, actual colest.175 mg% HDL

48 mg% TG 112 mg%.

> I'm going now by 10 kg more.

> This was a simple way to get a CR benefits without worry about a

complicated diet prescription. The supplement contents allow me to

rest about my nutrients incomes, I now that the company have a great

group of colleagues implicated in the development of this food(

including a Nobel laureates one).

> I'm convinced that we have to make this approach very simple for

all the people, my tougth about is that partial meal replacement wit

a formula wiht very low calorie density and a high nutrients one is

the simple one.

> As M.D, I found a very effective way to construct a very healthy

people whitout colateral damage, and really it's amazing. Now as

Hipocrates said I recomend all my patients and friends and

famility " the food has to be your medicine and not the medicine you

food " .

[Guest guest]

In general water soluble vitamins (like C) need to be consumed regularly.

Fat soluble Vits (like E) are stored.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...]

Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 9:59 PM

Subject: [ ] Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi folks:

Here is an issue I have not seen discussed here. Can anyone

enlighten us as to whether there any nutrients (apart from air and

water) for which the body's storage capacity is so low that they

should be consumed with great frequency?

Say we ate just corn starch (the near perfect source of empty

calories!) to fully satisfy our need for energy, what nutrients would

we become deficient in first, and how soon would that be?

As an example, three months without vitamin C precipitates scurvy.

But I am thinking rather more short term than three months. Are

there nutrients, beyond straight calories, that we really do need to

get our appropriate allocation of weekly? Any thoughts?

Rodney.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney. the answers.

Fructose 35 grs, day with fibers and other nutrients.

Soy protein at least 50% of total income that's about 35-40 grs/day ( pure protein powder)

Other sources 30 grs from lean meat ( cow or chicken, eggs, defat chesse etc.

Fats mainly from olive oil, nuts, almond.

Another tabletes from herbs named lipo-bond working as chelator from the gut ( similar to the actual ezetimibe).

Vitamins, mineral and heerbs, traces by label on supplements, y would scan the label for the group tomerrow

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 11:53 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi :Thank you for that interesting post. Some questions:1) What do you use, on this diet, as your source of fat? And how much of it per day?2) How much soy protein per day?3) How much fructose per day?4) How do you make sure you get all the micro-nutrients (vitamins, trace elements) that you need? Are they supplied in the "dietary supplements" to which you refer? If so, then what is the name of the supplement, please?The diet you describe reminds me of Dr. Spindler's mice. They ate soybean oil for fat; casein for protein; either starch or sucrose for carbohydrate; and a 'chemically defined' diet for all the vitamins and trace elements. And they seemed to survive quite well on this!Rodney.> On december 2002 I began a form of CR diet that consist on partial meal replacement with dietary supplements ( N.American origin) with fructose as carb and pure soy protein, plus fiber and herbs, vitamins and mineral, traces elements requieriments coverered. In 3 months I lose 10 kg. more energy left all medicines, actual colest.175 mg% HDL 48 mg% TG 112 mg%.> I'm going now by 10 kg more.> This was a simple way to get a CR benefits without worry about a complicated diet prescription. The supplement contents allow me to rest about my nutrients incomes, I now that the company have a great group of colleagues implicated in the development of this food( including a Nobel laureates one).> I'm convinced that we have to make this approach very simple for all the people, my tougth about is that partial meal replacement wit a formula wiht very low calorie density and a high nutrients one is the simple one.> As M.D, I found a very effective way to construct a very healthy people whitout colateral damage, and really it's amazing. Now as Hipocrates said I recomend all my patients and friends and famility " the food has to be your medicine and not the medicine you food ".

[Guest guest]

Logan thanks for your comments, as apricot says fructose is fruits carb, the glucemic index is 23 and 100 for glucose, the amount of the income is very important to and the worriest profile is Tg increment and hepatic FFA. The references are in relationship with aislated fructose and in more elevated incomes.

The main idea or the strategy I'm following is deppress insuline levels and estimulates glucagon ones as Barry Sears proposed in the Zone series.

Again my thougts are directed to a simple way to CR with supplemets, as partial meal replacement, because I suppose that we can't offer another stressful activity at the moment of food selection or at the meal time selection. Ours is very high ones by this latitudes actually.

By the way copper and zinc deficiencies are related with the arthitis magnitud and the extension in AR patients.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: beneathremains

Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 11:18 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Wouldn't 's message # 13409 have a bearing on what you

say here about glucose.

" Dr Rosedale lecture from a seminar in Boulder '99. He

specializes in diabetes and focuses onÊinsulin metabolism....ÊÊ

Ê

http://www.rosedalemetabolics.com/moreinfo.asp

Canary Peg

Ê

> Logan thanks for your comments, as apricot says fructose is

fruits carb, the glucemic index is 23 and 100 for glucose, the

amount of the income is very important to and the worriest profile

is Tg increment and hepatic FFA. The references are in

relationship with aislated fructose and in more elevated

incomes.

> The main idea or the strategy I'm following is deppress

insuline levels and estimulates glucagon ones as Barry Sears

proposed in the Zone series.

>

> Again my thougts are directed to a simple way to CR with

supplemets, as partial meal replacement, because I suppose

that we can't offer another stressful activity at the moment of food

selection or at the meal time selection. Ours is very high ones by

this latitudes actually.

> By the way copper and zinc deficiencies are related with the

arthitis magnitud and the extension in AR patients.

> Regards.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

An intake of any carb effects insulin, right? "High GI" may be important to an insulin user, but only because of the quick rise of BG. In fact all carbs raise BG albeit over time. In fact, all calories raise BG, right? Granted a higher BG average may tend to raise trigs if we eat too much. So it would seem the concept of spacing of meals is opposed to several small meals?

Do you think the Sears's ratio 30P/30F/40C is near the best? The last time I tried to figure out what he was talking about, I ended up at 1200 kcals intake. The only way I could balance all his requirements. A little low for me.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Orfilio Franco

Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:55 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Logan thanks for your comments, as apricot says fructose is fruits carb, the glucemic index is 23 and 100 for glucose, the amount of the income is very important to and the worriest profile is Tg increment and hepatic FFA. The references are in relationship with aislated fructose and in more elevated incomes.

The main idea or the strategy I'm following is deppress insuline levels and estimulates glucagon ones as Barry Sears proposed in the Zone series.

Again my thougts are directed to a simple way to CR with supplemets, as partial meal replacement, because I suppose that we can't offer another stressful activity at the moment of food selection or at the meal time selection. Ours is very high ones by this latitudes actually.

By the way copper and zinc deficiencies are related with the arthitis magnitud and the extension in AR patients.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW

I agree with your coments. In my personal point of view the most important is prevent the rapid increases on Glucose, utilizing complex carb and high fiber intake.

I don't know wich is the "perfect diet" but it's seems to be quite different for each person, genetics determinants, ancestors, social and enviromental factors, costumes, stress level, lives styles, sedentarism, diseases and go on.

Basically my actual objetives are 40p/30c/30f.

Thoughs make muscless with more protein and fisical activity.

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: jwwright

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:02 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi ,

An intake of any carb effects insulin, right? "High GI" may be important to an insulin user, but only because of the quick rise of BG. In fact all carbs raise BG albeit over time. In fact, all calories raise BG, right? Granted a higher BG average may tend to raise trigs if we eat too much. So it would seem the concept of spacing of meals is opposed to several small meals?

Do you think the Sears's ratio 30P/30F/40C is near the best? The last time I tried to figure out what he was talking about, I ended up at 1200 kcals intake. The only way I could balance all his requirements. A little low for me.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Orfilio Franco

Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:55 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Logan thanks for your comments, as apricot says fructose is fruits carb, the glucemic index is 23 and 100 for glucose, the amount of the income is very important to and the worriest profile is Tg increment and hepatic FFA. The references are in relationship with aislated fructose and in more elevated incomes.

The main idea or the strategy I'm following is deppress insuline levels and estimulates glucagon ones as Barry Sears proposed in the Zone series.

Again my thougts are directed to a simple way to CR with supplemets, as partial meal replacement, because I suppose that we can't offer another stressful activity at the moment of food selection or at the meal time selection. Ours is very high ones by this latitudes actually.

By the way copper and zinc deficiencies are related with the arthitis magnitud and the extension in AR patients.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Peg I do it and is a very good talk

Thanks

----- Original Message -----

From: Peg Diamond

Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:18 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi ,Wouldn't 's message # 13409 have a bearing on what you say here about glucose. "Dr Rosedale lecture from a seminar in Boulder '99. He specializes in diabetes and focuses onÊinsulin metabolism....ÊÊ Êhttp://www.rosedalemetabolics.com/moreinfo.aspCanary PegÊ> Logan thanks for your comments, as apricot says fructose is fruits carb, the glucemic index is 23 and 100 for glucose, the amount of the income is very important to and the worriest profile is Tg increment and hepatic FFA. The references are in relationship with aislated fructose and in more elevated incomes.> The main idea or the strategy I'm following is deppress insuline levels and estimulates glucagon ones as Barry Sears proposed in the Zone series.> > Again my thougts are directed to a simple way to CR with supplemets, as partial meal replacement, because I suppose that we can't offer another stressful activity at the moment of food selection or at the meal time selection. Ours is very high ones by this latitudes actually.> By the way copper and zinc deficiencies are related with the arthitis magnitud and the extension in AR patients.> Regards.>