Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi folks: Ooops. Now I see I missed grape seed oil. Apparently not a bad choice, even if the saturated is a bit on the high side ........ it has zero ALA; 12% saturated; and 73% linoleic. Rodney. --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> wrote: > Hi folks: > > Having not stirred things up enough for one day with my post that > appeared to recommend Mcs as the ideal source of nutrition (!) > here is another attempt. What is the optimal way to make up one's > required intake of fats? > > My purpose here is NOT to make an authoritative post on the topic - > since I am no kind of authority on this - but instead to make a > rather simple case and hope it will provoke someone with much greater > knowledge than mine to straighten me (and anyone else in need of it) > out. > > As I understand it there are two essential fats. Some say they are > linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). However, others say > that it is not the ALA that is essential, but rather the EPA and DHA > which the body can make from the ALA. I am not certain this is > correct. If inaccurate then please correct. > > But assuming this is correct then let's move the argument forward. > In addition to the essential fats there are also harmful fats. > Hydrogenated oils are very seriously harmful as demonstrated clearly > in the Nurses' Health Study. Saturated fats are also unhealthy, > although nowhere nearly as bad as the hydrogenated 'trans-fats'. > Other fats may also be *marginally* harmful in the sense that they > are not essential, and if eaten will add unnecessary calories that > serve no useful purpose. > > [There are some who claim that there are some beneficial saturated > fats. But I have not seen what I would call SERIOUS EMPIRICAL > evidence that confirms that. (And the argument that they are good to > use in an IV feed if you are stranded on a desert island is NOT the > kind of evidence I am looking for). If anyone has, please post it. > I will ignore them here]. > > In addition, data from a number of sources now indicate that men who > eat larger quantities of, or have higher levels in their blood of, > ALA have a markedly higher incidence of prostate cancer - a cancer > almost as common in men as breast cancer is in women, so not to be > lightly ignored. > > The above no doubt are not the only factors that should be taken into > consideration regarding choice of fats. Flavor is another, where all > agree olive oil wins hands down - and butter also on those rare > occasions where it is an indispensible flavor component. But for the > purposes of this post, flavor issues will not be taken into account > in trying to choose the healthiest fats. > > So what do the above issues suggest might be the healthiest fats for > MEN (taking the ALA problem into account) to consume? The following > is what logic (sometimes a poor guide) suggests to me: > > One needs a source with the lowest trans, saturated and ALA fats, but > with the highest proportion of essential linoleic acid. (One wants > the highest proportion because one wants to get one's allocation of > essential linoleic with the least amount possible of other non- > essential fats that are serving no useful purpose we know of, beyond > their calories). And in addition we need a good source of EPA and > DHA. > > The solution seems to be clear. The data I am using come from the > second large table at Tony Zamora's website health section on fats: > > http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/fattyacids.html > > http://snipurl.com/5kpl > > The three oils that have the highest levels of ALA are ruled > unacceptable as part of a healthy diet for males: they are flax (a > HUGE 53% ALA!!!); canola (10%); and soy (7%). > > Oils containing the larger amounts of saturated fats are also to be > avoided (unless/until I see persuasive evidence for some of them to > the contrary). This includes all animal fats as well as quite a few > plant based fats including tropical oils like palm oil and avocado. > Olive oil is 16% saturated, more than we would like. Soybean oil > 15%. Corn oil 13%. The two vegetable sourced oils containing less > than 10% saturated fat are safflower (9%) and canola (6%). But we > have already ruled out canola because of its ALA content. > > Oils with the highest percentages of essential linoleic acid are also > to be favored. So, which oils contain the highest linoleic acid > content? Safflower (78%); sunflower (68%); and corn (58%). > > For an excellent source of EPA and DHA (while avoiding ALA) the > answer would appear to be either fish oil or fish itself. (I choose > the latter because of a Physicians Health Study report that fish oil > *supplements* made no difference to the cardiovascular health those > who supplemented with them). But from the 'essential fats' point of > view the supplement should be just as good. > > So the conclusion I draw from this line of argument is to use > predominantly safflower oil (with olive oil where necessary and > butter on rare occasions) along with fish/fish oil regularly for the > EPA and DHA. I eat a small amount of fish, most of it canned, pretty > much every day. > > So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ ))) > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Continuing the stir here: I seem to remember - a few years back when I was living in the US that I bought Spectrums Cold-pressed oil as they were considered more healthily processed than the other oils. At that time I was not using olive oil though now i use it exclusively. I can remember watching a video at a 7th Day Adventist workshop showing the tremendous heat that oils were exposed to in order to increase their shelf life. Spanish cooking is all about oil so I have 3 different kinds. The Mediterranean diet is losing out in some parts of the Mediterranean especially with the young people. There's Mc s and Buger King right in the town where i live. Type 2 diabetes rate is 4 times higher here than in other parts of Europe due to the sweet pastries etc. How about almonds for fats - I know they are high in calories but I eat about 30 a day. I've also got back to taking Brewers yeast - cant miss out on all those B vitamins and minerals. > Hi folks: > > Having not stirred things up enough for one day with my post that > appeared to recommend Mcs as the ideal source of nutrition (!) > here is another attempt. What is the optimal way to make up one's > required intake of fats? > > My purpose here is NOT to make an authoritative post on the topic - > since I am no kind of authority on this - but instead to make a > rather simple case and hope it will provoke someone with much greater > knowledge than mine to straighten me (and anyone else in need of it) > out. > > As I understand it there are two essential fats. Some say they are > linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). However, others say > that it is not the ALA that is essential, but rather the EPA and DHA > which the body can make from the ALA. I am not certain this is > correct. If inaccurate then please correct. > > But assuming this is correct then let's move the argument forward. > In addition to the essential fats there are also harmful fats. > Hydrogenated oils are very seriously harmful as demonstrated clearly > in the Nurses' Health Study. Saturated fats are also unhealthy, > although nowhere nearly as bad as the hydrogenated 'trans-fats'. > Other fats may also be *marginally* harmful in the sense that they > are not essential, and if eaten will add unnecessary calories that > serve no useful purpose. > > [There are some who claim that there are some beneficial saturated > fats. But I have not seen what I would call SERIOUS EMPIRICAL > evidence that confirms that. (And the argument that they are good to > use in an IV feed if you are stranded on a desert island is NOT the > kind of evidence I am looking for). If anyone has, please post it. > I will ignore them here]. > > In addition, data from a number of sources now indicate that men who > eat larger quantities of, or have higher levels in their blood of, > ALA have a markedly higher incidence of prostate cancer - a cancer > almost as common in men as breast cancer is in women, so not to be > lightly ignored. > > The above no doubt are not the only factors that should be taken into > consideration regarding choice of fats. Flavor is another, where all > agree olive oil wins hands down - and butter also on those rare > occasions where it is an indispensible flavor component. But for the > purposes of this post, flavor issues will not be taken into account > in trying to choose the healthiest fats. > > So what do the above issues suggest might be the healthiest fats for > MEN (taking the ALA problem into account) to consume? The following > is what logic (sometimes a poor guide) suggests to me: > > One needs a source with the lowest trans, saturated and ALA fats, but > with the highest proportion of essential linoleic acid. (One wants > the highest proportion because one wants to get one's allocation of > essential linoleic with the least amount possible of other non- > essential fats that are serving no useful purpose we know of, beyond > their calories). And in addition we need a good source of EPA and > DHA. > > The solution seems to be clear. The data I am using come from the > second large table at Tony Zamora's website health section on fats: > > http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/fattyacids.html > > http://snipurl.com/5kpl > > The three oils that have the highest levels of ALA are ruled > unacceptable as part of a healthy diet for males: they are flax (a > HUGE 53% ALA!!!); canola (10%); and soy (7%). > > Oils containing the larger amounts of saturated fats are also to be > avoided (unless/until I see persuasive evidence for some of them to > the contrary). This includes all animal fats as well as quite a few > plant based fats including tropical oils like palm oil and avocado. > Olive oil is 16% saturated, more than we would like. Soybean oil > 15%. Corn oil 13%. The two vegetable sourced oils containing less > than 10% saturated fat are safflower (9%) and canola (6%). But we > have already ruled out canola because of its ALA content. > > Oils with the highest percentages of essential linoleic acid are also > to be favored. So, which oils contain the highest linoleic acid > content? Safflower (78%); sunflower (68%); and corn (58%). > > For an excellent source of EPA and DHA (while avoiding ALA) the > answer would appear to be either fish oil or fish itself. (I choose > the latter because of a Physicians Health Study report that fish oil > *supplements* made no difference to the cardiovascular health those > who supplemented with them). But from the 'essential fats' point of > view the supplement should be just as good. > > So the conclusion I draw from this line of argument is to use > predominantly safflower oil (with olive oil where necessary and > butter on rare occasions) along with fish/fish oil regularly for the > EPA and DHA. I eat a small amount of fish, most of it canned, pretty > much every day. > > So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ ))) > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 >>>So the conclusion I draw from this line of argument is to use predominantly safflower oil (with olive oil where necessary and butter on rare occasions) along with fish/fish oil regularly for the EPA and DHA. I eat a small amount of fish, most of it canned, pretty much every day. Hypothetical question (maybe) What if you were about to get in all your EFAs without specifically eating a food that is considered " high fat " like oil or nuts or seeds. What if it was possible to consume some whole foods that were very low in calories but very rich in nutrients and while they were lower in fat, they were still able to meet your EFA needs? If it is possible, wouldn't you save alot of calories by not having to consume concentrated oils/fats? Jeff PS EPA and DHA are not considered " essential " right now because they body can synthesize them if an adequate amount of EFAs were consumed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Checkout a Sears book, like the Anti Aging Zone. EPA and DHA are made by the body assuming you don't lack the desaturases. LA and ALA are precursors. Excess of LA makes more Arachidonic acid > bad eicosanoids. The Harvard women's study showed 12 grams LA and 1.1 ALA. The IOM states 17, 1.6. Modern Nutrition states 8.0, 2.0. A tbls of soy provides 7, 1. If I wanted more fat than that it'd be olive oil. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodney Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:47 PM Subject: [ ] Ideal Fats Intake Hi folks:Having not stirred things up enough for one day with my post that appeared to recommend Mcs as the ideal source of nutrition (!) here is another attempt. What is the optimal way to make up one's required intake of fats?My purpose here is NOT to make an authoritative post on the topic - since I am no kind of authority on this - but instead to make a rather simple case and hope it will provoke someone with much greater knowledge than mine to straighten me (and anyone else in need of it) out. As I understand it there are two essential fats. Some say they are linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). However, others say that it is not the ALA that is essential, but rather the EPA and DHA which the body can make from the ALA. I am not certain this is correct. If inaccurate then please correct.But assuming this is correct then let's move the argument forward. In addition to the essential fats there are also harmful fats. Hydrogenated oils are very seriously harmful as demonstrated clearly in the Nurses' Health Study. Saturated fats are also unhealthy, although nowhere nearly as bad as the hydrogenated 'trans-fats'. Other fats may also be *marginally* harmful in the sense that they are not essential, and if eaten will add unnecessary calories that serve no useful purpose.[There are some who claim that there are some beneficial saturated fats. But I have not seen what I would call SERIOUS EMPIRICAL evidence that confirms that. (And the argument that they are good to use in an IV feed if you are stranded on a desert island is NOT the kind of evidence I am looking for). If anyone has, please post it. I will ignore them here].In addition, data from a number of sources now indicate that men who eat larger quantities of, or have higher levels in their blood of, ALA have a markedly higher incidence of prostate cancer - a cancer almost as common in men as breast cancer is in women, so not to be lightly ignored. The above no doubt are not the only factors that should be taken into consideration regarding choice of fats. Flavor is another, where all agree olive oil wins hands down - and butter also on those rare occasions where it is an indispensible flavor component. But for the purposes of this post, flavor issues will not be taken into account in trying to choose the healthiest fats. So what do the above issues suggest might be the healthiest fats for MEN (taking the ALA problem into account) to consume? The following is what logic (sometimes a poor guide) suggests to me:One needs a source with the lowest trans, saturated and ALA fats, but with the highest proportion of essential linoleic acid. (One wants the highest proportion because one wants to get one's allocation of essential linoleic with the least amount possible of other non-essential fats that are serving no useful purpose we know of, beyond their calories). And in addition we need a good source of EPA and DHA.The solution seems to be clear. The data I am using come from the second large table at Tony Zamora's website health section on fats:http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/fattyacids.htmlhttp://snipurl.com/5kplThe three oils that have the highest levels of ALA are ruled unacceptable as part of a healthy diet for males: they are flax (a HUGE 53% ALA!!!); canola (10%); and soy (7%).Oils containing the larger amounts of saturated fats are also to be avoided (unless/until I see persuasive evidence for some of them to the contrary). This includes all animal fats as well as quite a few plant based fats including tropical oils like palm oil and avocado. Olive oil is 16% saturated, more than we would like. Soybean oil 15%. Corn oil 13%. The two vegetable sourced oils containing less than 10% saturated fat are safflower (9%) and canola (6%). But we have already ruled out canola because of its ALA content.Oils with the highest percentages of essential linoleic acid are also to be favored. So, which oils contain the highest linoleic acid content? Safflower (78%); sunflower (68%); and corn (58%). For an excellent source of EPA and DHA (while avoiding ALA) the answer would appear to be either fish oil or fish itself. (I choose the latter because of a Physicians Health Study report that fish oil *supplements* made no difference to the cardiovascular health those who supplemented with them). But from the 'essential fats' point of view the supplement should be just as good.So the conclusion I draw from this line of argument is to use predominantly safflower oil (with olive oil where necessary and butter on rare occasions) along with fish/fish oil regularly for the EPA and DHA. I eat a small amount of fish, most of it canned, pretty much every day.So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ )))Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hi Peg: Great point about nuts for fat. I wish I could find a detailed listing for the types of fat in each kind of nut. (And in each type of fish too). I know walnuts have a lot of ALA becuase I have seen people brag about it. So I know I should avoid them! But is there a list for nuts somewhere that is as good as the one on Tony's website that gives the breakdown for the oils? Rodney. > > Hi folks: > > > > Having not stirred things up enough for one day with my post > that > > appeared to recommend Mcs as the ideal source of > nutrition (!) > > here is another attempt. What is the optimal way to make up > one's > > required intake of fats? > > > > My purpose here is NOT to make an authoritative post on the > topic - > > since I am no kind of authority on this - but instead to make a > > rather simple case and hope it will provoke someone with > much greater > > knowledge than mine to straighten me (and anyone else in > need of it) > > out. > > > > As I understand it there are two essential fats. Some say they > are > > linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). However, others > say > > that it is not the ALA that is essential, but rather the EPA and > DHA > > which the body can make from the ALA. I am not certain this is > > correct. If inaccurate then please correct. > > > > But assuming this is correct then let's move the argument > forward. > > In addition to the essential fats there are also harmful fats. > > Hydrogenated oils are very seriously harmful as demonstrated > clearly > > in the Nurses' Health Study. Saturated fats are also unhealthy, > > although nowhere nearly as bad as the hydrogenated > 'trans-fats'. > > Other fats may also be *marginally* harmful in the sense that > they > > are not essential, and if eaten will add unnecessary calories > that > > serve no useful purpose. > > > > [There are some who claim that there are some beneficial > saturated > > fats. But I have not seen what I would call SERIOUS > EMPIRICAL > > evidence that confirms that. (And the argument that they are > good to > > use in an IV feed if you are stranded on a desert island is NOT > the > > kind of evidence I am looking for). If anyone has, please post > it. > > I will ignore them here]. > > > > In addition, data from a number of sources now indicate that > men who > > eat larger quantities of, or have higher levels in their blood of, > > ALA have a markedly higher incidence of prostate cancer - a > cancer > > almost as common in men as breast cancer is in women, so > not to be > > lightly ignored. > > > > The above no doubt are not the only factors that should be > taken into > > consideration regarding choice of fats. Flavor is another, > where all > > agree olive oil wins hands down - and butter also on those > rare > > occasions where it is an indispensible flavor component. But > for the > > purposes of this post, flavor issues will not be taken into > account > > in trying to choose the healthiest fats. > > > > So what do the above issues suggest might be the healthiest > fats for > > MEN (taking the ALA problem into account) to consume? The > following > > is what logic (sometimes a poor guide) suggests to me: > > > > One needs a source with the lowest trans, saturated and ALA > fats, but > > with the highest proportion of essential linoleic acid. (One > wants > > the highest proportion because one wants to get one's > allocation of > > essential linoleic with the least amount possible of other non- > > essential fats that are serving no useful purpose we know of, > beyond > > their calories). And in addition we need a good source of EPA > and > > DHA. > > > > The solution seems to be clear. The data I am using come > from the > > second large table at Tony Zamora's website health section on > fats: > > > > http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/fattyacids.html > > > > http://snipurl.com/5kpl > > > > The three oils that have the highest levels of ALA are ruled > > unacceptable as part of a healthy diet for males: they are flax > (a > > HUGE 53% ALA!!!); canola (10%); and soy (7%). > > > > Oils containing the larger amounts of saturated fats are also to > be > > avoided (unless/until I see persuasive evidence for some of > them to > > the contrary). This includes all animal fats as well as quite a > few > > plant based fats including tropical oils like palm oil and > avocado. > > Olive oil is 16% saturated, more than we would like. Soybean > oil > > 15%. Corn oil 13%. The two vegetable sourced oils > containing less > > than 10% saturated fat are safflower (9%) and canola (6%). > But we > > have already ruled out canola because of its ALA content. > > > > Oils with the highest percentages of essential linoleic acid are > also > > to be favored. So, which oils contain the highest linoleic acid > > content? Safflower (78%); sunflower (68%); and corn (58%). > > > > For an excellent source of EPA and DHA (while avoiding ALA) > the > > answer would appear to be either fish oil or fish itself. (I > choose > > the latter because of a Physicians Health Study report that fish > oil > > *supplements* made no difference to the cardiovascular > health those > > who supplemented with them). But from the 'essential fats' > point of > > view the supplement should be just as good. > > > > So the conclusion I draw from this line of argument is to use > > predominantly safflower oil (with olive oil where necessary and > > butter on rare occasions) along with fish/fish oil regularly for > the > > EPA and DHA. I eat a small amount of fish, most of it canned, > pretty > > much every day. > > > > So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ ))) > > > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Rodney: I agree with the idea of eating fish every day. I am also very impressed by the research on coconut oil. There apears to be a substantial amount of empirical research to support the health benefits of coconut oil. Refer to www.coconutoil.com for an overwhelming amount of research on coconut oil. I would certainly be interested if you could find flaws in this research. I have used coconut oil for 6 months with positive results. Tim --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> wrote: > So the conclusion I draw from this line of argument is to use > predominantly safflower oil (with olive oil where necessary and > butter on rare occasions) along with fish/fish oil regularly for the > EPA and DHA. I eat a small amount of fish, most of it canned, pretty > much every day. > > So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ ))) > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hi Jeff: Responses below: --- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...> wrote: > Hypothetical question (maybe) > > What if you were about to get in all your EFAs without specifically > eating a food that is considered " high fat " like oil or nuts or > seeds. What if it was possible to consume some whole foods that > were very low in calories but very rich in nutrients and while they > were lower in fat, they were still able to meet your EFA needs? > > If it is possible, wouldn't you save alot of calories by not > having to consume concentrated oils/fats? Yes that would be the ideal solution. Do you have foods you could suggest for that purpose? > > Jeff > > PS EPA and DHA are not considered " essential " right now because > they body can synthesize them if an adequate amount of EFAs were > consumed. Well .............. am I correct in believing that EPA and DHA are synthesized by the body **FROM ALA**? I am trying to avoid ALA like the plague because of its apparent causal connection to prostate cancer. So I would want to consume as little ALA as possible, and instead get the EPA and DHA directly, from fish perhaps. At least that is my current strategy, based on the above reasoning. (Females probably don't need to be concerned about this). Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 > [There are some who claim that there are some beneficial saturated > fats. But I have not seen what I would call SERIOUS EMPIRICAL > evidence that confirms that. (And the argument that they are good to > use in an IV feed if you are stranded on a desert island is NOT the > kind of evidence I am looking for). If anyone has, please post it. So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ ))) > > Rodney. _________________________________________________________ Rodney: Does the following count as SERIOUS EMPIRICAL evidence? See www.coconutoil.com for links. Tim ------------------------------- Abstracts from Peer Reviewed Literature Coconut Oil Cholesterol, coconuts, and diet on Polynesian atolls: a natural experiment: the Pukapuka and Tokelau island studies. Am J Clin Nutr 1981 Aug;34(8):1552-61 Choice of cooking oils--myths and realities. J Indian Med Assoc 1998 Oct;96(10):304-7 The role of coconut and coconut oil in coronary heart disease in Kerala, south India. Trop Doct. 1997 Oct;27(4):215-7. Coconut oil compound may treat STDs AIDS Patient Care STDS 1999 Sep;13(9):572 Chirurg 2002 Apr;73(4):387-92 Coconut oil used in Indonesia for treatment of wounds and to preserve medicinal herbs Effect of mineral oil, sunflower oil, and coconut oil on prevention of hair damage. J Cosmet Sci. 2003 Mar-Apr;54(2):175-92 Energy restriction with high-fat diet enriched with coconut oil gives higher UCP1 and lower white fat in rats. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1998 Oct;22(10):974-9. Intestinal adaptation in short bowel syndrome without tube feeding or home parenteral nutrition: report of four consecutive cases. Nutrition. 1998 Jun;14(6):508-12. Saturated Fats Consumption of a Solid Fat Rich in Lauric Acid Results in a More Favorable Serum Lipid Profile in Healthy Men and Women than Consumption of a Solid Fat Rich in trans-Fatty Acids Journal of Nutrition. 2001;131:242-245 Dietary fat intake and risk of stroke in male US healthcare professionals: 14 year prospective cohort study. BMJ. 2003 Oct 4;327(7418):777-82 Lauric Acid Consumption of a Solid Fat Rich in Lauric Acid Results in a More Favorable Serum Lipid Profile in Healthy Men and Women than Consumption of a Solid Fat Rich in trans-Fatty Acids Journal of Nutrition. 2001;131:242-245 Effect of fatty acids on arenavirus replication: inhibition of virus production by lauric acid Arch Virol 2001;146(4):777-90 MCTs Consumption of an oil composed of medium chain triacyglycerols, phytosterols, and N-3 fatty acids improves cardiovascular risk profile in overweight women. Metabolism. 2003 Jun;52(6):771-7. Medium-Chain Oil Reduces Fat Mass and Down-regulates Expression of Adipogenic Genes in Rats. Obes Res. 2003 Jun;11(6):734-44. An enteral therapy containing medium-chain triglycerides and hydrolyzed peptides reduces postprandial pain associated with chronic pancreatitis. Pancreatology. 2003;3(1):36-40. Protective effects of medium-chain triglycerides on the liver and gut in rats administered endotoxin. Ann Surg. 2003 Feb;237(2):246-55. Medium-chain triglycerides increase energy expenditure and decrease adiposity in overweight men. Obes Res. 2003 Mar;11(3):395-402. Larger diet-induced thermogenesis and less body fat accumulation in rats fed medium-chain triacylglycerols than in those fed long-chain triacylglycerols. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2002 Dec;48(6):524-9. Comparison of diet-induced thermogenesis of foods containing medium- versus long-chain triacylglycerols. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2002 Dec;48(6):536-40. Short-term efficacy of enteral nutrition in the treatment of active Crohn's disease: a randomized, controlled trial comparing nutrient formulas. JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr 2002 Mar-Apr;26(2):98-103 Effects of intravenous supplementation with alpha-tocopherol in patients receiving total parenteral nutrition containing medium- and long-chain triglycerides Eur J Clin Nutr 2002 Feb;56(2):121-8 Killing of Gram-positive cocci by fatty acids and monoglycerides APMIS 2001 Oct;109(10):670-8 Physiological effects of medium-chain triglycerides: potential agents in the prevention of obesity. J Nutr 2002 Mar;132(3):329-32 Value of VLCD supplementation with medium chain triglycerides Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 2001 Sep;25(9):1393-400 In vitro killing of Candida albicans by fatty acids and monoglycerides. Antimicrob Agents Chemother 2001 Nov;45(11):3209-12 Effects of different lipid sources in total parenteral nutrition on whole body protein kinetics and tumor growth. JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 1992 Nov-Dec;16(6):545-51 Enhanced thermogenesis and diminished deposition of fat in response to overfeeding with diet containing medium chain triglyceride. Am J Clin Nutr. 1982 Apr;35(4):678-82 Thermogenesis in humans during overfeeding with medium-chain triglycerides. Metabolism. 1989 Jul;38(7):641-8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hi JW: My view on olive oil is that it is probably not actively harmful. But it is 16% saturated - more than safflower oil (9%); and only 10% linoleic (which you want) compared with 78% for safflower oil. So, compared with olive oil, you can get your RDA for (essential) linoleic acid from safflower oil with 87% fewer calories and 93% less saturated fat. Of course it would be nice to see some empirical evidence among humans, monkeys or some other species that is a good analogue to humans re fat (pigs perhaps?) that showed that safflower fed animals live longer, or are healthier, than olive oil fed specimens. I am just trying to be rational here. Of course that may have nothing to do with being right. Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > Checkout a Sears book, like the Anti Aging Zone. EPA and DHA are made by the body assuming you don't lack the desaturases. LA and ALA are precursors. Excess of LA makes more Arachidonic acid > bad eicosanoids. > > The Harvard women's study showed 12 grams LA and 1.1 ALA. The IOM states 17, 1.6. Modern Nutrition states 8.0, 2.0. > > A tbls of soy provides 7, 1. > If I wanted more fat than that it'd be olive oil. > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 I did not suggest olive oil for EFA. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodney Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Ideal Fats Intake Hi JW:My view on olive oil is that it is probably not actively harmful. But it is 16% saturated - more than safflower oil (9%); and only 10% linoleic (which you want) compared with 78% for safflower oil.So, compared with olive oil, you can get your RDA for (essential) linoleic acid from safflower oil with 87% fewer calories and 93% less saturated fat.Of course it would be nice to see some empirical evidence among humans, monkeys or some other species that is a good analogue to humans re fat (pigs perhaps?) that showed that safflower fed animals live longer, or are healthier, than olive oil fed specimens.I am just trying to be rational here. Of course that may have nothing to do with being right.Rodney. > Checkout a Sears book, like the Anti Aging Zone. EPA and DHA are made by the body assuming you don't lack the desaturases. LA and ALA are precursors. Excess of LA makes more Arachidonic acid > bad eicosanoids. > > The Harvard women's study showed 12 grams LA and 1.1 ALA. The IOM states 17, 1.6. Modern Nutrition states 8.0, 2.0. > > A tbls of soy provides 7, 1. > If I wanted more fat than that it'd be olive oil. > > Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 I kinda liked this site http://www.freshhempfoods.com/nutrition/comp-table.html Rodney wrote: >But is there a list for nuts somewhere that is as good as the one on Tony's website that gives the breakdown for the oils? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Not Enig again! We've been over this. Again, not recognized or esteemed in the mainstream scientfic community! Folks, it doesn't cost us anything to go to the top sources/scientists for our info. Enig is not one of them. on 7/9/2004 11:21 PM, mountainsport500 at tjordanprescott@... wrote: > > Rodney: > > I agree with the idea of eating fish every day. I am also very > impressed by the research on coconut oil. There apears to be a > substantial amount of empirical research to support the health > benefits of coconut oil. > > Refer to www.coconutoil.com for an overwhelming amount of research > on coconut oil. I would certainly be interested if you could find > flaws in this research. > > I have used coconut oil for 6 months with positive results. > > Tim > > > > >> So the conclusion I draw from this line of argument is to use >> predominantly safflower oil (with olive oil where necessary and >> butter on rare occasions) along with fish/fish oil regularly for > the >> EPA and DHA. I eat a small amount of fish, most of it canned, > pretty >> much every day. >> >> So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ ))) >> >> Rodney. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 > So now you can shoot me down, folks, please : ^ ))) It's not the kind of fat per se, but the ratios. All saturated fats raise both HDL and LDL, except for palm oil. All polyunsaturated fats reduce both HDL and LDL. All trans fats raise raise LDL and lower HDL. All monounsaturated fats are more neutral in effect. Vegetable polyunsaturated fats are too high in non-GLA Omega 6's. Thus your idea of using regular safflower oil will just worsen your Omega 3/6 ratio. Instead, I would ingest (and do) cold-pressed: Fish Oil (EPA/DHA), Borage Oil (GLA), Red Kernal Palm Oil, High Oleic Safflower Oil and/or Extra Virgin Olive Oil. In actual food, you'd want to eat only grass-fed meats and dairy which have a more favorable polyunsaturated Omega3/6 ratios. I do not believe relying on LA and ALA for conversion into GLA/EPA/DHA is supported by the anthropological evidence of our earlier diets. Native American Indians lack the enzyme to convert to GLA and the Eskimos lack the enzyme to convert to EPA/DHA. And with our melting pot, mixed-race, modern junk diets and xenobiotic environmental pollution, it seems prudent not to rely on the long conversion process to occur for EFA's. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 BTW, there are enough studies demonstrating the virtures of ingesting fish oil if the Physicians Health Study allegedly found no benefit. Besides, why should we care about physicians anyway? They die at the average age of 57! Nonetheless, fish oil as free fatty acid and ethyl fish oils isn't that great in terms bioavailabity, so may I suggest ingesting fish oil as mixed glycerides (Jarrow) or as Krill Oil. Logan --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> > For an excellent source of EPA and DHA (while avoiding ALA) the > answer would appear to be either fish oil or fish itself. (I choose > the latter because of a Physicians Health Study report that fish oil > *supplements* made no difference to the cardiovascular health those > who supplemented with them). But from the 'essential fats' point of > view the supplement should be just as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 I think that statistic (life expectancy of physicians) is some kind of urban myth. >From: " beneathremains " <beneathremains@...> >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Re: Ideal Fats Intake >Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:15:58 -0000 > >BTW, there are enough studies demonstrating the virtures of ingesting >fish oil if the Physicians Health Study allegedly found no benefit. >Besides, why should we care about physicians anyway? They die at the >average age of 57! > >Nonetheless, fish oil as free fatty acid and ethyl fish oils isn't >that great in terms bioavailabity, so may I suggest ingesting fish >oil as mixed glycerides (Jarrow) or as Krill Oil. > >Logan > >--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> > > For an excellent source of EPA and DHA (while avoiding ALA) the > > answer would appear to be either fish oil or fish itself. (I >choose > > the latter because of a Physicians Health Study report that fish >oil > > *supplements* made no difference to the cardiovascular health those > > who supplemented with them). But from the 'essential fats' point >of > > view the supplement should be just as good. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 I have seen many good reports on coconut oil on the Hypothyroid lists. Canary PS does anyone on the list subscribe to the Berkeley Newsletter about vitamin issues? I notice that they are very cautionary about most supplements. > > Rodney: > > I agree with the idea of eating fish every day. I am also very > impressed by the research on coconut oil. There apears to be a > substantial amount of empirical research to support the health > benefits of coconut oil. > > Refer to www.coconutoil.com for an overwhelming amount of research > on coconut oil. I would certainly be interested if you could find > flaws in this research. > > I have used coconut oil for 6 months with positive results. > > Tim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 The internet is full of good advice. Lots of " helpful " people, some of whom even make a dollar or two on the side :-). Of course the hard part is always separating out the wheat from the chaff. Enig's claims about coconut (yes, I read the book) may sound too good to be true but that doesn't mean they aren't. Mercola's pillory of sucralose likewise sounds too bad to be true (considering the amount of testing). Who knows? They are both data points that should be considered along with everything else. Perhaps even more valuable IMO than his CR message, Dr. Walford describes how to evaluate such claims. Mercola seems to be tapped into a number of popular health trends and throwing out everything he says because he has been wrong on a few and is more than a little mercenary might throw out the baby with the bath water. There are so many sources of information on the web that you don't have to rely on any single source for anything. Rank him lower on your list for reliability but don't ignore everything he says. Enig, made some remarkable statements about fats and coconut oil specifically. I am not qualified to discredit her work and she doesn't seem to be with the crowd on several issues. I am sympathetic to her dislike of trans-fats. Time will tell if sucralose is bad and coconut good. In the meanwhile we have to make our own reasoned choices, trust (or not) but verify (always). Good luck all. JR -----Original Message----- From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...] Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Ideal Fats Intake Not Enig again! We've been over this. Again, not recognized or esteemed in the mainstream scientfic community! Folks, it doesn't cost us anything to go to the top sources/scientists for our info. Enig is not one of them. on 7/9/2004 11:21 PM, mountainsport500 at tjordanprescott@... wrote: > ________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Internet Pathway's Email Gateway scanning system for potentially harmful content, such as viruses or spam. Nothing out of the ordinary was detected in this email. For more information, call 601-776-3355 or email support@... ________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 > Enig's claims about coconut (yes, I read the book) may sound too good > to be true but that doesn't mean they aren't. > Time will tell if sucralose is bad and coconut good. In the meanwhile we > have to make our own reasoned choices, trust (or not) but verify (always). > Good luck all. > > JR > __________________________________________________________________ The following studies suggest coconut oil use in the diet combined with fruits and vegetables as a carbohydrate source can lead to unusually low levels of heart disease. Coconut oil in combination with cholesterol and refined carbohydrates especially lactose lead to high levels of heart disease. Regards, Tim __________________________________________________________ 1: Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 1992;31(1-2):79-102. Medium chain triglycerides (MCT) in aging and arteriosclerosis. Kaunitz H. Some of the nutritional work with triglycerides consisting mainly of C8 and C10 fatty acids (MCT) lends itself to speculations about their influence on arteriosclerosis. Arteriosclerosis is thought to be part of the normal aging process which is due to age associated molecular biological changes. The lipid theory of arteriosclerosis is rejected. Pertinent studies with MCT include these observations. Feeding of MCT to rats resulted in animals of low body weight, small fat deposits and excellent survival rate. This deserves emphasis because of the beneficial influence of low body weight on aging and arteriosclerosis. MCT feeding was associated with low linoleate and low tocopherol requirements in rats. This may lead to reduced formation of those linoleate derived prostaglandins which favor thrombosis formation. Lower linoleate requirements may also lead to the presence of fewer uncontrolled free radicals in the cells. MCT feeding is associated with low levels of serum and liver cholesterol involving speculations that tissue conditions are such that an adaptive increase of cholesterol is unnecessary. The Demographic Yearbook of the United Nations (1978) reported that Sri Lanka has the lowest death rate from ischemic heart disease. Sri Lanka is the only of the countries giving reliable data where coconut oil (containing over 50% medium chain fatty acids) is the main dietary fat. Publication Types: Review PMID: 3519928 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] __________________________________________________________ 1: Am J Clin Nutr. 1980 Aug;33(8):1869-87. Influence of type of carbohydrate on atherosclerosis in baboons fed semipurified diets plus 0.1% cholesterol. Kritchevsky D, son LM, Kim HK, Krendel DA, Malhotra S, Mendelsohn D, van der Watt JJ, duPlessis JP, Winter PA. Five groups of six (three male, three female) baboons (Papio ursinus) were maintained for 17 months on a semipurified diet containing 40% carbohydrate, 25% casein, 13.9% coconut oil, 0.1% cholesterol, 15% cellulose, 5% salt mix (USP XIV) and 1% vitamin mix. The carbohydrates fed were: fructose, sucrose, starch, glucose, and lactose. A fifth group was used as control and was fed bread, fruit, and vegetables. Serum, liver, and tissue lipids were analyzed at the end of the feeding period as were cholesterol absorption (as 3H-cholesterol) and synthesis (from 14C-mevalonic acid). Serum cholesterol and beta-lipoprotein levels were elevated in all the test groups compared to final control levels or to starting levels for all the baboons. Average serum cholesterol levels of the test groups were not significantly different. Liver lipids were elevated in all test groups except that fed glucose. Baboons on the test diets absorbed more exogenous cholesterol (3H) but biosynthesis of this sterol was not inhibited. The ratio of biliary primary/secondary bile acids was below normal levels only in the animals fed fructose and sucrose. Cholesteryl ester fatty acid spectra of serum and liver reflected the dietary fat. Fecal weight was 69% higher in lactose fed animals and 31% lower in sucrose fed animals than in the controls. The ratio of endogenous or exogenous neutral/acid steroids was considerably lower in the fructose-fed baboons than in the other animals. On this diet average aortic sudanophilia (percentage of surface) was: fructose, 11.3; sucrose, 10.4; starch, 21.3; glucose, 17.2 lactose, 65.8; and control, 1.4. Gross atheromatous lesions were seen in five of six baboons fed lactose; three of six baboons fed fructose; two of six baboons fed sucrose, and one of six baboons fed starch. In a second experiment three groups of baboons were fed the control diet, the semipurified diet in which the carbohydrate was lactose, and the semipurified diet containing lactose plus 0.1% cholesterol for 8.5 months. Serum lipids were elevated in the two test groups but liver lipids were not significantly different from control levels. Average aortic sudanophilia (percentage of area) was: lactose, 2.2; lactose- cholesterol, 20.8; and control, 0.3%. One of the six baboons in the lactose-cholesterol group had visible atherosclerotic lesions. These experiments represent the first successful attempt to produce severe atherosclerosis in baboons by dietary means alone. PMID: 7405889 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Hi All, Much has been said regarding fats. Here is a paper suggesting that breast cancer increases for a number of fats among which monounsaturated fats that are a risk, in the better cohort studies versus case-control studies. Cheers, Al Pater. The analysis was based on 3 cohort and 7 case-control studies including 2,031 cases and 2,334 controls. The summary statistic used was the average of the relative risk estimated for each level of the fatty acid on study, weighted by the inverse of its variance. Random effect models were assumed when the test for heterogeneity was significant. Overall relative risks were estimated for studies including pre- and post-menopausal breast cancer and separately for post-menopausal women. In cohort studies, a significant protective effect was found for total n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, while total monounsaturated fatty acids, oleic acid (C18:1 n-9c) and palmitic acid (C16:0) were significantly associated with an increase of breast cancer risk. Total saturated fatty acids were significantly associated with breast cancer risk in cohort studies only in postmenopausal women. For case-control studies, the only finding was for alpha linolenic acid (C18:3, n-3), which showed an inverse association bordering on statistical significance. ... PMID: 15239137 [PubMed - in process] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Not to disagree. My first impression of Enig was formed when I first read her 1970 dissertation on trans fats. That was about 1993. I wondered why so little had been done to repress the use of hydrogenated fat, but the fact is, an enormous number of servings of that fat has been eaten and not everyone has died from it. Some people apparently can burn it, but excess consumption of that and sugar and corn sweetener may have caused the obesity epidemic. As to essential fatty acids, there hasn't been a large number of people anywhere suffer from EFAD symptoms. Maybe that's due to the extensive use of soy oil, sesame oil, etc. The EFA's 18:2 and 18:3, according to Modern Nutrition can be made from 16:2 and 16:3 found in green veggies. There may be some people who lack the desaturases to make EPA/DHA, but I wonder how they have survived all these years without fish oil. Perhaps, that observed deficiency is due to eating fish for a number of years, suppressing the EPA mfg process. Those individuals perhaps need to add EPA/DHA, however, as I recall, a prime function of EPA is to suppress arachidonic acid production. In any case, I can't see a reason for me and maybe the average person to fear they may not be making EPA/DHA. The only way I could incite dusty elbows was to abstain for several months from all fat sources and that is NOT easy to do. Adding back just 1 tbls of soy alleviated that. According to the Harvard women's study, the req't is 11.1 omega 6, 2.2 omega 3. Those are averages, some may need more. With the amount of soy oil used in this country, I just can't see it's the major health problem depicted by the EFA marketers. Surely, if we don't eat at Mac's, or others, we'll need to analyze our diet. It seems to me the opposite is the big health problem - too much fat, sugars with too many calories. And maybe we need to separate ideas about American Indians into the individual tribes. I believe a lot of them may have survived on a lot of corn and no fish. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: john roberts Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Ideal Fats Intake The internet is full of good advice. Lots of "helpful" people, some of whomeven make a dollar or two on the side :-). Of course the hard part is alwaysseparating out the wheat from the chaff. Enig's claims about coconut (yes, I read the book) may sound too goodto be true but that doesn't mean they aren't. Mercola's pillory of sucraloselikewise sounds too bad to be true (considering the amount of testing). Whoknows? They are both data points that should be considered along witheverything else.Perhaps even more valuable IMO than his CR message, Dr. Walford describeshow to evaluate such claims.Mercola seems to be tapped into a number of popular health trends andthrowing out everything he says because he has been wrong on a few and ismore than a little mercenary might throw out the baby with the bath water.There are so many sources of information on the web that you don't have torely on any single source for anything. Rank him lower on your list forreliability but don't ignore everything he says. Enig, made some remarkable statements about fats and coconut oilspecifically. I am not qualified to discredit her work and she doesn't seemto be with the crowd on several issues. I am sympathetic to her dislike oftrans-fats.Time will tell if sucralose is bad and coconut good. In the meanwhile wehave to make our own reasoned choices, trust (or not) but verify (always).Good luck all.JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 No one has mentioned CLA. It's not technically essential but probably a good idea, and look, colon cancer protection in rodent models. CLA A number of roles for CLA have been proposed (British Nutrition Foundation 2003). A potential role in cancer protection has been reported based on studies with rodent models of mammary and colon cancer, and also various in vitro models of cancer (Sebedio et al. 1999). More recently, the ability of CLA to influence the lean: fat tissue ratio, in favour of lean tissue, has been shown in animal models and humans (Roche et al. 2001). Interest has also focused on cardiovascular risk factors and inflammatory markers. Much of this work has been conducted in animal models and encouraging findings have prompted a series of studies in humans (Calder 2002). A consistent result emerging from the various studies in humans is the ability of CLA to reduce body fatness, regardless of whether the subjects are lean or overweight. There have also been some inconsistent findings with regard to blood lipids which might be attributed to the variability of the dose level and/ or the mix of CLA isomers used, particularly as results from animal studies show that specific isomers of CLA may be responsible for specific biological effects (De Deckere et al. 1999, Park et al. 1999). The main dietary sources of CLA in the human diet are meat from ruminant animals and dairy products, particularly cheese. The amount present varies with the breed and the animals' diet, being high in grass-fed animals (Lawson et al. 2001). As CLA is present in milk fat, the amount present is also directly affected by processing. More than 90% of the CLA present in cow's milk is in the cis-9, trans-11 form and the majority is produced within the mammary gland itself from the rumen-derived substrate vaccenic acid, although small amounts derive directly from biohydrogenation of linoleic acid in the rumen. From: http://www.nutrition.org.uk/obage/report1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Hi folks: OK then. Three questions: 1. What foods/substances do people think are the best to eat to get the required amounts of the essential fats (hopefully without using appreciable amounts of ALA) while consuming the smallest amount of calories - i.e. incorporating the assumption that CR is desirable. 2. Should we go out of our way to supplement additional amounts, i.e. amounts beyond the required amount, of any specific fats because of a perceived health benefit, even though doing so will cause an increase in total caloric intake? If we should, which fats are they, and what are the perceived benefits? 3. To JW ........... what are the units associated with the 11.1 and 2.2 in the quote from your post below, please? TIA. Rodney. (I will not be taking the opposite side of any views expressed here. This is a simple genuine request for input. I have said more than enough on this topic already!). --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > According to the Harvard women's study, the req't is 11.1 omega 6, 2.2 omega 3. Those are averages, some may need more ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> > According to the Harvard women's study, the req't is 11.1 omega 6, > 2.2 omega 3. Those are averages, some may need more. With the > amount of soy oil used in this country, I just can't see it's the > major health problem depicted by the EFA marketers. Surely, if we > don't eat at Mac's, or others, we'll need to analyze our diet. The main problem I have with these kind of " RDA " recommendations is the apparant mixing of apples and oranges. The Omega 6's are very likely to be meant as LA and the Omega 3's are very likely to be meant as EPA/DHA. Even if such recommendations are meant to be LA and ALA, it's easy to misrepresent the science based on DHA/EPA for ALA, or GLA for LA, etc.. Does anyone know if there has been any in-depth studies specifically comparing LA and ALA to the various components of the EFA cascade in terms of efficacy? > And maybe we need to separate ideas about American Indians into the > individual tribes. I believe a lot of them may have survived on a > lot of corn and no fish. Well, corn does contain GLA, but it allegedly cannot be utilized in the same way as the GLA in Evening Primrose or Borage. So Indians ate the seeds of either plants to get their GLA. Another problem is optimal health requires both GLA and DHA/EPA. The Indians/Eskimos onset health problems (before modern diets) are good examples of lopside consumption of either. In the modern American diet, there is clearly a major excess of LA. If we need only small quantities of either LA/ALA or GLA/DHA/EPA, then the rest of the fat in our diet has to be made up of saturated and monounsaturated fats. So it seems to me that GLA/DHA/EPA's major role is in suppressing inflammation and the HDL/LDL increase resulting the ingestion of saturated fats. I have not seen any anthropological evidence that our modern homo sapiens brain evolved from eating ALA as opposed to DHA. So there is cleary efficacy differences among the EFA cascade components. I'm not going to personally bet on LA/ALA making it all the way down to GLA/DHA/EPA and/or in health optimizing quantities. Mere survivability by avoiding deficiencies or depletions is not the same as life extension. So one great reason to specifically ingest GLA as opposed to LA is because GLA increases the specific HDL subfraction that centenarians have (genetically). Logan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 > No one has mentioned CLA. It's not technically essential but > probably a good idea, and look, colon cancer protection in rodent > models. Where and how does CLA fit into the EFA cascade, if at all? What does it mean that LA is " conjugated " ? Logan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 As you know Linoleic acid is an unsaturated fat, which means it has at least one double bond between two carbons instead of a single bond to hydrogen or another carbon. The Linoleic molecule has a double bond between 9 and 10 then two single bonds then a double bond. Conjugated in this regards means there are two double bonds separated by only one single bond instead of two. Theoretically there could be several isomers of CLA but only two (as far as I know) are natural occurring. Check out this PDF that has a structural diagram of the Linoleic acid and the two main isomers. It's published by the National Cattleman's Beef Association and is EXTREMELY one sided in terms CLA beneficial effects and there citations to back up their claims, but, you can see diagrammatically the molecules. A PDF is worth at least a couple hundred words: http://www.beef.org/documents/23348_Conjugated.pdf.pdf There are over 800 pubmed independent citations on CLA, some with human subjects and positive results and some suggest that the supplement industry is basing it`s hype on bovine scatology. > What does it mean that LA is " conjugated " ? > > Logan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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