Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Thanks, It occurs to me that these ideas of greatly extended lifespan, and I separate those from medicine which deals with disease, if we get to the point where we cannot die from aging because the telomeres can be lengthened or such, it will not be immortality. We will die of heart disease, cancer, whatever, and the rates of those will rise to accommodate the mass (of people). We don;t know what the risk will be at 140 yo for diseases. regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: aequalsz Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: [ ] Can We Cure Aging? Hi:all CRONies. Here is an interesting article about curing aging, foundwhile looking up "telomere". Totally copyrighted, but the article isat,http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/telomeres.htmNot too much about calorie restriction, so you may not wish to readit.Aequalsz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 You assume advances in control of these disease processes will not also advance? >From: " jwwright " <jwwright@...> >Reply- >< > >Subject: Re: [ ] Can We Cure Aging? >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:42:07 -0500 > >Thanks, >It occurs to me that these ideas of greatly extended lifespan, and I >separate those from medicine which deals with disease, if we get to the >point where we cannot die from aging because the telomeres can be >lengthened or such, it will not be immortality. We will die of heart >disease, cancer, whatever, and the rates of those will rise to accommodate >the mass (of people). We don;t know what the risk will be at 140 yo for >diseases. > >regards. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: aequalsz > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:41 PM > Subject: [ ] Can We Cure Aging? > > > Hi: > > all CRONies. Here is an interesting article about curing aging, found > while looking up " telomere " . Totally copyrighted, but the article is > at, > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/telomeres.htm > > Not too much about calorie restriction, so you may not wish to read > it. > > Aequalsz > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 No, I don't assume anything. I just hypothesize we live in a system and if you poke one area another pops up. Incorporate uterine surgery and you lengthen the lives of women, but they die of different causes later. Maybe increases in breast cancer, maybe something else. About 30 yrs ago the head of the Am Cancer Society said they would never find the cure for cancer. In some minds, they would call that not true now. But we still have many dying of cancer. And it can pop up even if you go to Mayo and get a thorough physical every 6 months. Right now, it seems we can take about 10 x more data than we know what to do with. I wonder if in 2050 they will still be saying "eat more veggies"? Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dowling Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Can We Cure Aging? You assume advances in control of these disease processes will not also advance?>From: "jwwright" <jwwright@...>>Reply- >< >>Subject: Re: [ ] Can We Cure Aging?>Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:42:07 -0500>>Thanks,>It occurs to me that these ideas of greatly extended lifespan, and I >separate those from medicine which deals with disease, if we get to the >point where we cannot die from aging because the telomeres can be >lengthened or such, it will not be immortality. We will die of heart >disease, cancer, whatever, and the rates of those will rise to accommodate >the mass (of people). We don;t know what the risk will be at 140 yo for >diseases.>>regards.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Hi JW: Many of these diseases of aging are the result of a decline in immune system function. I expect that the ultimate cure for aging (of which telomere treatment may be part) will restore the immune system performance (as well as telomere length) to that of a 25 year old. That will solve many of the problems older people tend to suffer from today. Perhaps we will die of the same things teenagers die from today. But we can expect other problems to arise at older ages - 150, 180, etc. - that we may never have heard of before. But they will likely also have solutions. Although the solutions may not, or may, come in time for us here. Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > No, I don't assume anything. I just hypothesize we live in a system and if you poke one area another pops up. > Incorporate uterine surgery and you lengthen the lives of women, but they die of different causes later. Maybe increases in breast cancer, maybe something else. > > About 30 yrs ago the head of the Am Cancer Society said they would never find the cure for cancer. In some minds, they would call that not true now. But we still have many dying of cancer. And it can pop up even if you go to Mayo and get a thorough physical every 6 months. > Right now, it seems we can take about 10 x more data than we know what to do with. > > I wonder if in 2050 they will still be saying " eat more veggies " ? > > Regards. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dowling > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:22 PM > Subject: Re: [ ] Can We Cure Aging? > > > You assume advances in control of these disease processes will not also > advance? > > > >From: " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> > >Reply- > >< > > >Subject: Re: [ ] Can We Cure Aging? > >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:42:07 -0500 > > > >Thanks, > >It occurs to me that these ideas of greatly extended lifespan, and I > >separate those from medicine which deals with disease, if we get to the > >point where we cannot die from aging because the telomeres can be > >lengthened or such, it will not be immortality. We will die of heart > >disease, cancer, whatever, and the rates of those will rise to accommodate > >the mass (of people). We don;t know what the risk will be at 140 yo for > >diseases. > > > >regards. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 >>>> From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> Date: Tue Aug 3, 2004 4:11 pm Subject: Re: Can We Cure Aging? .... But we can expect other problems to arise at older ages - 150, 180, etc. - that we may never have heard of before. But they will likely also have solutions. Although the solutions may not, or may, come in time for us here. >>>> http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/400-499/nb486.htm Nature Bulletin No. 486-A from Forest Preserve District of Cook County Illinois discusses the life span of animals. It is interesting to note that Turkey Buzzards, which are carrion eaters, can live for 118 years, and slow-moving giant tortoises can live for more than 152 years when not killed accidentally. When looking for clues to longevity we may learn something by studying long-lived species. Tony ===== ===== ===== ===== ****:THE LIFE SPAN OF ANIMALS Signs of senility, or extreme old age, are seldom seen in the wild. Animals living under natural conditions rarely approach their maximum possible age because of very high death rates due to infant mortality, diseases, predators, bad weather, accidents, or competition for food and shelter. For this reason, most of the reliable information about the length of the life span comes from zoos, where accurate records are kept and animals live under conditions almost ideally suited to prolong life. A mouse whose life is measured in months in the wild can survive years of captivity. Large animals tend to live longer than their smaller relatives -- but there are many exceptions. For example, man is longer-lived than any other mammal. After him, in age, comes the elephant, hippopotamus, horse, rhinoceros, the bears, the big cats and many others which are larger in size. In general, birds live longer than mammals, and certain reptiles the longest of all. A giant tortoise is known to have lived 152 years on the island of Mauritius and then was killed accidentally or it might have lived a century longer. Even our common box turtle rather frequently reaches the 50-year mark. It is an interesting sidelight that there seems to have been no change in the life span of dogs, cats, horses and cows under thousands of years of domestication by man. The following examples of extreme old age have been chosen from the reliable records of zoos and aquariums all over the world. MAMMALS YEARS Elephant 69 Horse 50 Hippopotamus 49 Chimpanzee 40 Grizzly Bear 32 Bison 30 Lion 30 Tiger 25 Elk 22 Mountain Lion 20 Beaver 19 Wolf 16 Squirrel 16 Chipmunk 12 Cottontail 10 House Mouse 4 BIRDS YEARS Turkey Buzzard 118 Swan 102 Parrot 80 Great Horned Owl 68 Eagle 55 English Sparrow 23 Canary 22 Humming Bird 8 REPTILES YEARS Giant Tortoise 152 Box Turtle 123 Alligator 68 Snapping Turtle 57 Cobra 28 Cottonmouth 21 AMPHIBIANS YEARS Giant Salamander 55 Toad 36 Bullfrog 30 Mud Puppy 23 Green Frog 10 Newt 7 FISH YEARS Catfish 60 Eel 55 Carp 47 Mosquitofish 2 INSECTS YEARS Cicada 17 Ant (queen) 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 I wonder if senility applies if you're not human? Man has an additional brain added to the mammalian. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: citpeks Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Can We Cure Aging? ===== ===== ===== =====****:THE LIFE SPAN OF ANIMALSSigns of senility, or extreme old age, are seldom seen in the wild. Animals living under natural conditions rarely approach their maximum possible age because of very high death rates due to infantmortality, diseases, predators, bad weather, accidents, or competition for foodand shelter. For this reason, most of the reliable information aboutthe length of the life span comes from zoos, where accurate recordsare kept and animals live under conditions almost ideally suited toprolong life. A mouse whose life is measured in months in the wild cansurvive years of captivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 --- In , " aequalsz " <aequalsz@y...> wrote: > Hi: > > all CRONies. Here is an interesting article about curing aging, found > while looking up " telomere " . Totally copyrighted, but the article is > at, > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/telomeres.htm > > Not too much about calorie restriction, so you may not wish to read > it. > > Aequalsz Hi, Also found this article at the antiaging-systems website that explains some of the effects of the CRON diet on aging. (This will also be a handy way for me to " re-find " this article later) :-) http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/calorierestriction.htm Aequalsz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 They have a financial interest in pushing these products. on 8/4/2004 3:15 PM, aequalsz at aequalsz@... wrote: > > > Hi, > > Also found this article at the antiaging-systems website that explains > some of the effects of the CRON diet on aging. (This will also be a > handy way for me to " re-find " this article later) :-) > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/calorierestriction.htm > > Aequalsz > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 In fact they sell Laetrile, long ago dismissed by mainstream medicine as having any effect on curing cancer........... on 8/4/2004 3:43 PM, Francesca Skelton at fskelton@... wrote: > They have a financial interest in pushing these products. > > > on 8/4/2004 3:15 PM, aequalsz at aequalsz@... wrote: > > >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Also found this article at the antiaging-systems website that explains >> some of the effects of the CRON diet on aging. (This will also be a >> handy way for me to " re-find " this article later) :-) >> >> http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/calorierestriction.htm >> >> Aequalsz >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 Hi All, It seems. Cheers, Al. Memory impairment progressing to dementia is the main clinical symptom of Alzheimer's disease (AD). Deposition of the amyloid-beta peptide (Abeta) in brain, particularly its 42-amino acid isoform (Abeta42), has been shown to play a primary and crucial role in the pathogenesis of AD. In this study we have developed a recombinant adeno-associated virus (AAV) vaccine against AD. This vaccine could express CB-Abeta42 (cholera toxin B subunit and Abeta42 fusion protein) in vivo. A single administration of the AAV-CB-Abeta42 vaccine induced a prolonged, strong production of Abeta-specific serum IgG in transgenic mice that overexpressed the London mutant of amyloid precursor protein (APP/V717I), and resulted in improved ability of memory and cognition, decreased Abeta deposition in the brain, and a resultant decrease in plaque-associated astrocytosis. Our results extended the immunological approaches for the treatment and prevention of AD to an oral, intranasal, or intramuscular route that might be better tolerated in human patients than repetitive parental immunizations in the presence of adjuvant. AAV has attracted tremendous interest as a promising vector for gene delivery. Our results raised the possibility that AAV-CB-Abeta42 vector immunization may provide the basis of a novel and promising Alzheimer's disease vaccination program. PMID: 14678754 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > I wonder if senility applies if you're not human? Man has an additional brain added to the mammalian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 > They have a financial interest in pushing these products. > I noticed that too after I had posted the website. More than likely almost all of the sophisticated readers here would recognize such and take all with a grain of salt. I just found the description regarding CRON and genetic consequences as being informative. Didn't mean to mislead anyone. Aequalsz Disclaimer. Have no relationship with anyone or anything on that website, except that my dad owns a 40% share of the parent company. (joke) PS Will try to apply a better high-pass filter to future candidate websites for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 --- In , " aequalsz " <aequalsz@y...> wrote:> Hi, > > Also found this article at the antiaging-systems website that explains > some of the effects of the CRON diet on aging. (This will also be a > handy way for me to " re-find " this article later) :-) > > http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/calorierestriction.htm Hi All, Best Pract Res Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Sep;18 (3) pdfs are available and titles and some other sections of selected ones that I and I hope you are interested in. It sounds going regarding anti- aging medicines. Best Practice & Research Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. 18, Iss 3 (September 2004) Ageing and Endocrinology 3. Androgens and the ageing male Pages 349-362 S. Swerdloff and Wang PDF (141 K) 4. Dehydroepiandrosterone and ageing Pages 363-380 Wiebke Arlt PDF (191 K) 5. Life extension versus improving quality of life Pages 381-391 R. Nass and M. O. Thorner PDF (129 K) 6. The role of insulin and insulin-like growth factor-I in mammalian ageing Pages 393-406 Arlan , Feng Liu, L. Adamo, Holly Van Remmen and F. PDF (155 K) 7. Pitfalls of animal model systems in ageing research Flurkey and Joanne M. Currer Best Pract Res Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Sep;18(3):407-21. PMID: 15261846 [PubMed - in process] ....EXAMPLES OF PURPORTED ANTI-AGEING INTERVENTIONS The previous sections have outlined various guidelines to help evaluate anti-ageing research. To illustrate their use, we will apply these guidelines to three purportedly anti-ageing interventions: resveratrol, which has just recently received considerable publicity; dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), which has had vigorous public support over the past 15-20 years but has been discounted as an anti-ageing treatment; and L-deprenyl, which may be the only anti-ageing drug treatment for which life span and other biomarker testing has been completed in animal models with mild success. A brief analysis of resveratrol research Resveratrol (3,4,4 -trihydroxystilbene) is a polyphenol that is found in red wine (and other foods) that recently has been shown to extend the life span of yeast.23 This compound has attracted the attention of gerontologists because it is the most active of a class of compounds that stimulate yeast SIR2 activity. SIR2 is the product of the ene sir2, a member of the sirtuin gene family, which positively regulates life span in yeast and which is orthologous to another gene, sir-2.1, that positively regulates life span in C. elegans.24 Thus, resveratrol may increase life span in yeast through its action on SIR2. Resveratrol has been associated with cancer protection in mice.25It also affects sirtuin activity in human cells in culture.25It has received considerable public attention recently because it is an attractive candidate as an anti-ageing treatment for humans. However, resveratrol is at a very early stage in the testing process. Tests of resveratrol's effect on life span in fruit flies and roundworms are only now underway and it is not even known if sirtuins regulate ageing in mammals. Even if the studies in invertebrates are successful, it will still be at least 5 years before pre-clinical studies in mice are completed and confirmed. Only then will anti-ageing studies begin in humans. This example highlights the importance of (i) knowing the animal model used in studies and (ii) understanding where this intervention is in the development process for anti-ageing treatments. ....A brief analysis of L-deprenyl (selegiline) L-deprenyl (selegiline) is a dopaminergic agonist used to treat Parkinson's disease that has been shown to increase life span in laboratory animals. Knoll29 first reported that, in male rats, L-deprenyl treatments begun at 24 months of age increased maximum life span. Milgram et al30and Kitani et al31confirmed this observation. Neither food intake, nor body weight, was diminished by the treatment32, ruling out inadvertent diet restriction as the reason for the increased life span. Another study performed on rats reported that oral administration of L-deprenyl, beginning at 12 months of age, improved spatial learning in the water maze when the rats were tested at 20 months of age, but did not affect performance on sensorimotor or motor learning tasks.33In tests with mice of both sexes from two F1 hybrid strains, L-deprenyl treatment, initiated at 20 months of age, increased median and maximum total life span by 5–7% in both sexes,34this was comparable to the increases reported by Milgram et al30and Kitani et al.31However, no beneficial effects were seen on wound healing, open field behaviour, haematocrit or tail collagen denaturation time.34Thus, the beneficial effects of L-deprenyl on normal ageing appear to be limited to aspects of the central nervous system. Furthermore, an L-deprenyl-associated decrease in male fertility demonstrated that agents increasing life span may have detrimental effects.34 Although L-deprenyl was reported to increase life span in most studies that were sufficiently powerful to identify a 5% increase, it shortened life span for Wistar rats, indicating that interactions with genotype may be an important consideration.35 Because L-deprenyl is prescribed for Parkinson's disease, humans are already using the drug for long term treatment. Despite the promise provided by the general agreement among multiple studies of mice and rats, and at least one report of increased life span in dogs treated with L-deprenyl36, evaluation of patient data indicates that it may actually shorten life span in humans,35at least for the limited subpopulation of Parkinsonian patients. Because L-deprenyl affects so few biomarkers of ageing other than life span, because it can have detrimental side effects and because there is no benefit, at least for some genotypes, it should come as no surprise if a more comprehensive evaluation of the clinical data demonstrates that L- deprenyl does not extend human life span. This example highlights the importance of (i) ruling out inadvertent diet restriction as the cause for increased life span in a study; (ii) evaluating multiple animal models; (iii) evaluating multiple biomarkers; and (iv) replicating studies at independent sites. SUMMARY There is no longer any controversy among gerontologists over whether ageing can be retarded in animals, including mammals. We can retard ageing. In fact, anti-ageing breakthroughs are taking place in invertebrates and mammals more rapidly now than ever before. But finding a gene that delays ageing in roundworms is a far cry from an anti-ageing intervention for humans. Furthermore, numerous pitfalls exist in pre-clinical research. This chapter has described the most important of these pitfalls and the strategies needed to avoid them. By keeping these pitfalls in mind, we can analyse ageing research realistically and differentiate weak from robust claims. With a critical eye, we can avoid the cynicism that results from inflated claims with no follow-through and, instead, maintain the optimism of the scientific community that anti- ageing successes realised in lower animal models may someday apply to humans. Practice points The following are guidelines for interpreting the results of anti- ageing research conducted with animal models: For stories in the popular media: †note the animal model used in the research. Successful studies done with rodents are more likely to be applicable to humans than studies done with invertebrates. However, even successful studies in rodents do not guarantee success with humans. Keep in mind that the development cycle for anti- ageing interventions for humans is lengthy †note whether the study was original research or a replication. A report about a replication carries more validity For reports in journals: †note the genotype of the animal used. For studies using mice, the 4- way cross model, which offers controlled genetic variability, provides the most robust results. The next best model would be an F1 hybrid. Inbred strains provide the least robust results †note the type of colony used. In a conventional colony, the effect of pathogens could confound ageing and life span data. In a specific pathogen free (SPF) colony, where pathogens are minimised, ageing and life span data are more valid †note whether the research included a contingency for inadvertent diet restriction. Because diet restriction is so effective as an anti- ageing intervention, a reputable study should include a way to detect and prevent inadvertent diet restriction by the animal subjects 8. Insulin-like growth factor I and bone mineral density: experience from animal models and human observational studies Pages 423-435 Clifford J. Rosen PDF (134 K) 9. Endocrinology of anorexia of ageing Pages 437-452 Ian McPhee Chapman PDF (163 K) 10. Preface • EDITORIAL Page vii O. Thorner It has been a pleasure and excitement to edit this volume. The authors have given of their best and I believe the volume puts the field in context. A major question regarding aging is whether it is reversible or not. Perhaps another way of considering it is whether we can slow the process and allow older people to live healthier lives and thereby enjoy their later years and remain functional for as long as possible. The chapters cover both the clinical aspects of hormone replacement therapy for the menopause, somatopause and andropause. Several chapters cover the question of the possibility of extending life versus improving quality of life. I personally am only interested in the latter. I hope that the volume will be stimulating to the readers and promote more questions and more answers. Cheers, Alan Pater, PhD; 4849 Swanson St., Port Alberni, BC, V9Y 6M7; phone: 250 724-0596; email: old542000@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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