Re: Rename: Required macro Nutrient ratio

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Not to disagree.

Let me tell you my approach and you tell me where my error is.

I figure my ancestors are more like the Finlander's then Eskimos, so I give the Fin fat study more weight than stories about Eskimos, Okinawans, Japanese, or any other non - northern European. The fin study resulted in a <30% fat diet recommendation and they think that has improved cardio problems. So I think maybe that's a good limit.

That leaves P and C, and I sorta lean toward a Sear's ratio.

70% of 1800 kcals is 1260. That could be 540 P and 720 C or 720 P and 540 C.

I know there may be no req't for carbs, per se, but in the carbs lies a lot of other things - the known vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, AND thousands of chemicals there we don't know the function of. There are also probably thousands more that have not been identified and exist in such small quantities that scientists give them no credit for any function.

But I also know that 640 kcals is enough romaine lettuce to provide a very large part of the RDAs of vit, mins, aminos, and fatty acids. IMO, focusing on the carbs in a plant is not the right approach.

So I add 540 kcals of olive oil to the romaine.

To continue, that leaves 620 kcals for Protein. I'll pick 47 gms of egg white in deference to MR, but mostly because it's been thought of as a "perfect" protein.

I end up with 128 oz of romaine, 47 oz of egg white and 2.14 oz of olive oil. Because romaine actually has some protein and fat, the ratio ends up at 44% P/ 34% fat / 22% carbs. And that's where Sears has lost me. He left out the protein and fats in plants in his dissertation.

So I ask myself: Do I adjust the components to 40P/30F/30C? The protein is at 199 grams, much higher than anyone has touted even for CR. Essential aminos are 400% by the most stringent RDA. I GUESS that I can use 1 gram P per pound of the weight I eventually want to get to (148#).

I swap sugar, a pure carb, for some fat and some protein, so I can change just the ratio.

That gives me 33% Protein, 30% fat, and 37% carbs. Using 2.55 oz sugar, 1.9 olive oil, 30 oz egg whites (fresh), and 128 oz romaine.

Just a theoretical way of getting a ratio - not suggesting this as a diet. I don't think I can eat 128 oz of romaine and I couldn't afford it, and I'd get tired of it anyway. And it might be different for Eskimos.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Orfilio Franco

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:00 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi JW

I agree with your coments. In my personal point of view the most important is prevent the rapid increases on Glucose, utilizing complex carb and high fiber intake.

I don't know wich is the "perfect diet" but it's seems to be quite different for each person, genetics determinants, ancestors, social and enviromental factors, costumes, stress level, lives styles, sedentarism, diseases and go on.

Basically my actual objetives are 40p/30c/30f.

Thoughs make muscless with more protein and fisical activity.

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: jwwright

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:02 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi ,

An intake of any carb effects insulin, right? "High GI" may be important to an insulin user, but only because of the quick rise of BG. In fact all carbs raise BG albeit over time. In fact, all calories raise BG, right? Granted a higher BG average may tend to raise trigs if we eat too much. So it would seem the concept of spacing of meals is opposed to several small meals?

Do you think the Sears's ratio 30P/30F/40C is near the best? The last time I tried to figure out what he was talking about, I ended up at 1200 kcals intake. The only way I could balance all his requirements. A little low for me.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Orfilio Franco

Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:55 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Logan thanks for your comments, as apricot says fructose is fruits carb, the glucemic index is 23 and 100 for glucose, the amount of the income is very important to and the worriest profile is Tg increment and hepatic FFA. The references are in relationship with aislated fructose and in more elevated incomes.

The main idea or the strategy I'm following is deppress insuline levels and estimulates glucagon ones as Barry Sears proposed in the Zone series.

Again my thougts are directed to a simple way to CR with supplemets, as partial meal replacement, because I suppose that we can't offer another stressful activity at the moment of food selection or at the meal time selection. Ours is very high ones by this latitudes actually.

By the way copper and zinc deficiencies are related with the arthitis magnitud and the extension in AR patients.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW

Let me point some statement.

the most important aspects building health :calorie restriction

maybee low carb low fat diet are better ( just maybee) so what about proteins??

A diet that promotes glucagon and low insulin levels, is good for the health too ( Sears and eicosanoids)

I agree in " the are a lot of things we don't know, the bigger one"

whit respect to your theoretical construction, i't seems a lot of math to me ( just a little fun)

In that order I disagree I don't like took my meals with a palm in the hand. ( " " " ).

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: jwwright

Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 1:51 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Rename: Required macro Nutrient ratio

Hi ,

Not to disagree.

Let me tell you my approach and you tell me where my error is.

I figure my ancestors are more like the Finlander's then Eskimos, so I give the Fin fat study more weight than stories about Eskimos, Okinawans, Japanese, or any other non - northern European. The fin study resulted in a <30% fat diet recommendation and they think that has improved cardio problems. So I think maybe that's a good limit.

That leaves P and C, and I sorta lean toward a Sear's ratio.

70% of 1800 kcals is 1260. That could be 540 P and 720 C or 720 P and 540 C.

I know there may be no req't for carbs, per se, but in the carbs lies a lot of other things - the known vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, AND thousands of chemicals there we don't know the function of. There are also probably thousands more that have not been identified and exist in such small quantities that scientists give them no credit for any function.

But I also know that 640 kcals is enough romaine lettuce to provide a very large part of the RDAs of vit, mins, aminos, and fatty acids. IMO, focusing on the carbs in a plant is not the right approach.

So I add 540 kcals of olive oil to the romaine.

To continue, that leaves 620 kcals for Protein. I'll pick 47 gms of egg white in deference to MR, but mostly because it's been thought of as a "perfect" protein.

I end up with 128 oz of romaine, 47 oz of egg white and 2.14 oz of olive oil. Because romaine actually has some protein and fat, the ratio ends up at 44% P/ 34% fat / 22% carbs. And that's where Sears has lost me. He left out the protein and fats in plants in his dissertation.

So I ask myself: Do I adjust the components to 40P/30F/30C? The protein is at 199 grams, much higher than anyone has touted even for CR. Essential aminos are 400% by the most stringent RDA. I GUESS that I can use 1 gram P per pound of the weight I eventually want to get to (148#).

I swap sugar, a pure carb, for some fat and some protein, so I can change just the ratio.

That gives me 33% Protein, 30% fat, and 37% carbs. Using 2.55 oz sugar, 1.9 olive oil, 30 oz egg whites (fresh), and 128 oz romaine.

Just a theoretical way of getting a ratio - not suggesting this as a diet. I don't think I can eat 128 oz of romaine and I couldn't afford it, and I'd get tired of it anyway. And it might be different for Eskimos.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Orfilio Franco

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:00 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi JW

I agree with your coments. In my personal point of view the most important is prevent the rapid increases on Glucose, utilizing complex carb and high fiber intake.

I don't know wich is the "perfect diet" but it's seems to be quite different for each person, genetics determinants, ancestors, social and enviromental factors, costumes, stress level, lives styles, sedentarism, diseases and go on.

Basically my actual objetives are 40p/30c/30f.

Thoughs make muscless with more protein and fisical activity.

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: jwwright

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:02 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Hi ,

An intake of any carb effects insulin, right? "High GI" may be important to an insulin user, but only because of the quick rise of BG. In fact all carbs raise BG albeit over time. In fact, all calories raise BG, right? Granted a higher BG average may tend to raise trigs if we eat too much. So it would seem the concept of spacing of meals is opposed to several small meals?

Do you think the Sears's ratio 30P/30F/40C is near the best? The last time I tried to figure out what he was talking about, I ended up at 1200 kcals intake. The only way I could balance all his requirements. A little low for me.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Orfilio Franco

Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:55 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Required Nutrient Intake Frequency

Logan thanks for your comments, as apricot says fructose is fruits carb, the glucemic index is 23 and 100 for glucose, the amount of the income is very important to and the worriest profile is Tg increment and hepatic FFA. The references are in relationship with aislated fructose and in more elevated incomes.

The main idea or the strategy I'm following is deppress insuline levels and estimulates glucagon ones as Barry Sears proposed in the Zone series.

Again my thougts are directed to a simple way to CR with supplemets, as partial meal replacement, because I suppose that we can't offer another stressful activity at the moment of food selection or at the meal time selection. Ours is very high ones by this latitudes actually.

By the way copper and zinc deficiencies are related with the arthitis magnitud and the extension in AR patients.

Regards.