Re: A Couple of Newbie Questions

[Guest guest]

Hi Alison: Congrats on delurking and welcome!

Thanks for the compliments to the group!

For alternatives to sandwich spreads there are a zillion alternatives. For

a picky 5 year old, have you tried the allfruit spreads? Other suggestions

are hummous, pure nut butters, spreads made with olive oil such as are found

in Whole foods or Trader Joe's (artichoke spread, vegetable tapenada's found

in TJ's are delish). There are lots of alternatives if you check around.

I dye my hair and I suspect most of the older woman do. I just don't do it

to excess. I wait as long as I can before doing a " touch up " and then I

don't worry about the 20 minutes that only my roots are exposed to the dye

and the 5 minutes the rest of my head is exposed (every couple of months).

on 8/19/2004 6:35 AM, Alison Rowe at amrowe@... wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I'm a newish subscriber and have been lurking for a while. **This is a great

> list**. I'm not quite CRONing yet, but am experimenting, and managing about

> four 1200Kcal days each week. (And with " excessive " eating on the other 3 days

> only reaching around 2000 or less.) I'm 5'4 " and 130lbs.

>

> A couple of questions...

> * What would you recommend as the best alternative for my picky 5 year old as

> a sandwich spread? She's been brought up on margarine, and now refuses to be

> switched to butter on taste grounds. (I myself can do entirely without fat

> spreads quite easily.)

> * I assume you are interested in longevity from all angles, not just purely

> dietary ones...What is the best option in hair dye? Yes I know that it's NONE,

> but failing that...? I'm afraid I'm stubbornly addicted to remaining

> cosmetically youthful at least for while yet. Darest I say that from some of

> the CRON gathering photos I've seen, it appears likely that at least some of

> the CRON veterans resort to some form of hair colouring and have probably

> researched the matter in their usual thorough manner! Please do share.

>

> AMR

[Guest guest]

For a buttery spread, we use Natucol made by Earth Balance. I bought

it for my husband, who is trying to reduce cholesterol (the product

is high in plant sterols), but we liked it so much that we all now

use it, including my 5-year-old. My husband is an even pickier eater

than my 5-year-old.

I dye my hair. I have yet to see a study linking hair dye to

longevity, but if there is one out there, I hope nobody posts it. I

don't want to know about it.

--- In , " Alison Rowe " <amrowe@i...>

wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I'm a newish subscriber and have been lurking for a while. **This

is a great list**. I'm not quite CRONing yet, but am experimenting,

and managing about four 1200Kcal days each week. (And

with " excessive " eating on the other 3 days only reaching around

2000 or less.) I'm 5'4 " and 130lbs.

>

> A couple of questions...

> * What would you recommend as the best alternative for my picky 5

year old as a sandwich spread? She's been brought up on margarine,

and now refuses to be switched to butter on taste grounds. (I myself

can do entirely without fat spreads quite easily.)

> * I assume you are interested in longevity from all angles, not

just purely dietary ones...What is the best option in hair dye? Yes

I know that it's NONE, but failing that...? I'm afraid I'm

stubbornly addicted to remaining cosmetically youthful at least for

while yet. Darest I say that from some of the CRON gathering photos

I've seen, it appears likely that at least some of the CRON veterans

resort to some form of hair colouring and have probably researched

the matter in their usual thorough manner! Please do share.

>

> AMR

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Is anyone here aware of any empirical studies showing the longer term

effects of these plant sterol products?

How do we know they are not just a repeat of the 'margarine is

healthier than butter' advice of thirty years ago? (Of course we now

know that that advice could hardly have been more wrong).

Why does anyone have to use ANY greasy spread of uncertain merit on

anything? IMO it is merely a matter of habit, and habits can be

changed. (Or in the case of children, never formed in the first

place).

fwiw

Rodney.

> > Hi,

> >

> > I'm a newish subscriber and have been lurking for a while. **This

> is a great list**. I'm not quite CRONing yet, but am experimenting,

> and managing about four 1200Kcal days each week. (And

> with " excessive " eating on the other 3 days only reaching around

> 2000 or less.) I'm 5'4 " and 130lbs.

> >

> > A couple of questions...

> > * What would you recommend as the best alternative for my picky 5

> year old as a sandwich spread? She's been brought up on margarine,

> and now refuses to be switched to butter on taste grounds. (I

myself

> can do entirely without fat spreads quite easily.)

> > * I assume you are interested in longevity from all angles, not

> just purely dietary ones...What is the best option in hair dye? Yes

> I know that it's NONE, but failing that...? I'm afraid I'm

> stubbornly addicted to remaining cosmetically youthful at least for

> while yet. Darest I say that from some of the CRON gathering photos

> I've seen, it appears likely that at least some of the CRON

veterans

> resort to some form of hair colouring and have probably researched

> the matter in their usual thorough manner! Please do share.

> >

> > AMR

[Guest guest]

Smart Balance margarine is one of the tastiest trans-fat-free

margarines I've ever tried. It's a mono-poly-sat oils blend

purportedly able to raise HDL and improve the HDL/LDL ratio. I like

it better than butter which is just too annoyingly sweet.

Their patent is at:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?

u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm & Sect1=PTO1 & Sect2=HITOFF & p=1 & r=1 & l=50 & f=G & d=PAL

L & s1=5578334.WKU. & OS=PN/5578334 & RS=PN/5578334

Logan

--- In , " Alison Rowe " <amrowe@i...> >

* What would you recommend as the best alternative for my picky 5

year old as a sandwich spread? She's been brought up on margarine,

and now refuses to be switched to butter on taste grounds. (I myself

can do entirely without fat spreads quite easily.)

[Guest guest]

snip

What is the best option in hair dye? Yes I know that it's NONE, but

failing that...? I'm afraid I'm stubbornly addicted to remaining

cosmetically youthful at least for while yet. Darest I say that from

some of the CRON gathering photos I've seen, it appears likely that at

least some of the CRON veterans resort to some form of hair colouring

and have probably researched the matter in their usual thorough

manner! Please do share.

>

> AMR

I use henna and am very happy with the results. It has substantial

conditioning effects on hair also. I'm not comfortable with what I

have read about the cancer causing potential of most permanant hair

dyes, and am pretty cautious about what I put on my scalp. (sorry,

but don't have any references with me). A good site on using henna is

here: http://www.hennaforhair.com/

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Alison Rowe " <amrowe@i...>

wrote:

....

> * What would you recommend as the best alternative for my picky 5

year old as a sandwich spread? She's been brought up on margarine,

and now refuses to be switched to butter on taste grounds. (I myself

can do entirely without fat spreads quite easily.)

....

Hi All,

Trans-fat-free margarine.

Cheers, Al Pater.

[Guest guest]

I am new to this list and read with interest the numbers presented Aug

20 re: Smart Balance (a use of the Patent Office data base I'd have

never thought of). I'm afraid, though, a lot of the chemical

names/stats went right over my head. Maybe somone can clear up one

point for me: Since there are a number of references on the net (like

http://tinyurl.com/3ngdd ) which suggest that our current diet is

overloaded with Omega 6, so I was wondering if we shouldn't try to

find margarines which have a better ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 than

the 3.1/1 which Smart Balance provides. And, if that's true, what

would be a good candidate?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Trish

[Guest guest]

Trish,

Your reference makes some good points, but it is not what would be

called " reliable source " . In particular, the web page is poorly

worded or misguided: " So how do we get this ratio back in balance? Two

ways; decreasing (but not eliminating!) omega-6 fats such as meat fat

and hydrogenated vegetable oils and increasing food choices of

omega-3-rich foods. "

You DEFINITELY want to *eliminate* from your diet all hydrogenated

fats. They have been shown to double the rate of heart attacks. As

far as getting the right ratios of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids, if

somehow you have determined that you are not getting the right ratios

of these fatty acids, you would be better off by supplementing with

fish oil or flaxseed oil as noted in the reference rather than by

consuming a margarine that may add a lot of undesirable components to

your diet.

Tony

>>>

From: " Pat Conway " <YGroupie@v...>

Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:44 am

Subject: Re: A Couple of Newbie Questions

I am new to this list and read with interest the numbers presented Aug

20 re: Smart Balance (a use of the Patent Office data base I'd have

never thought of). I'm afraid, though, a lot of the chemical

names/stats went right over my head. Maybe somone can clear up one

point for me: Since there are a number of references on the net (like

http://tinyurl.com/3ngdd ) which suggest that our current diet is

overloaded with Omega 6, so I was wondering if we shouldn't try to

find margarines which have a better ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 than

the 3.1/1 which Smart Balance provides. And, if that's true, what

would be a good candidate?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Trish

>>>

[Guest guest]

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your reply. But I'm not sure.... Are you saying that 1) a

3.1/1 ratio is ok for one's overall diet or 2) if the rest of my diet

is so out of wack, that it can't handle a small quantity of a 3.1/1

ration then I best add more omega 3 or subtract omega 6, since there

isn't a margarine with a better ratio that doesn't also have other

more undesirable components.

Thanks again.

Trish

> Trish,

>

> Your reference makes some good points, but it is not what would be

> called " reliable source " . In particular, the web page is poorly

> worded or misguided: " So how do we get this ratio back in balance? Two

> ways; decreasing (but not eliminating!) omega-6 fats such as meat fat

> and hydrogenated vegetable oils and increasing food choices of

> omega-3-rich foods. "

>

> You DEFINITELY want to *eliminate* from your diet all hydrogenated

> fats. They have been shown to double the rate of heart attacks. As

> far as getting the right ratios of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids, if

> somehow you have determined that you are not getting the right ratios

> of these fatty acids, you would be better off by supplementing with

> fish oil or flaxseed oil as noted in the reference rather than by

> consuming a margarine that may add a lot of undesirable components to

> your diet.

>

> Tony

>

> >>>

> From: " Pat Conway " <YGroupie@v...>

> Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:44 am

> Subject: Re: A Couple of Newbie Questions

>

> I am new to this list and read with interest the numbers presented Aug

> 20 re: Smart Balance (a use of the Patent Office data base I'd have

> never thought of). I'm afraid, though, a lot of the chemical

> names/stats went right over my head. Maybe somone can clear up one

> point for me: Since there are a number of references on the net (like

> http://tinyurl.com/3ngdd ) which suggest that our current diet is

> overloaded with Omega 6, so I was wondering if we shouldn't try to

> find margarines which have a better ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 than

> the 3.1/1 which Smart Balance provides. And, if that's true, what

> would be a good candidate?

>

> Thanks a lot for your help.

>

> Trish

> >>>

[Guest guest]

Trish,

The idea that we are not getting the right ratios of omega6 to omega3

fatty acids comes from speculations about what our ancestors might

have eaten thousands of years ago when corn-fed cattle did not exist.

But these are SPECULATIONS. Nobody really knows what people ate

10,000 years ago before agriculture was established. Nomadic people

did not leave many archeological clues, so we assume that they were

mainly hunters/fishermen and ate some plants. Based on the fatty acid

compositions of contemporary corn-fed cattle and free-range, grass-fed

cattle we can assume that today our diets are deficient in omega3

because we get an abundance of omega6 fatty acids in our diet from

most vegetable oils and animal fats. IF this assumption is right, we

would have to increase our consumption of omega3 oils to get the same

fatty acid ratios that our hunter-gatherer ancestors would have eaten.

There are four common oils that have a substantial amount of omega3

(alpha linolenic acid ALA): flaxseed, canola, soybean, and walnut.

Eating one pat (14 grams) of margarine with a 3:1 ratio of

omega6:omega3 is not going to change your lipid profile substantially.

Eating the same 14 grams of flaxseed oil which has a 1:3 ratio of

omega6:omega3 will do more for you for the same number of calories.

As a matter of fact, about 7 of the 14 grams of flaxseed oil are ALA.

But like I said, all this is based on the speculation that we need to

get the fatty acid ratios of our diets closer to those of our

ancestors and that our current diets are deficient.

Tony

>>>

From: " Pat Conway " <YGroupie@v...>

Date: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:43 pm

Subject: Re: A Couple of Newbie Questions

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your reply. But I'm not sure.... Are you saying that 1) a

3.1/1 ratio is ok for one's overall diet or 2) if the rest of my diet

is so out of wack, that it can't handle a small quantity of a 3.1/1

ration then I best add more omega 3 or subtract omega 6, since there

isn't a margarine with a better ratio that doesn't also have other

more undesirable components.

Thanks again.

Trish

> Trish,

>

> Your reference makes some good points, but it is not what would be

> called " reliable source " . In particular, the web page is poorly

> worded or misguided: " So how do we get this ratio back in balance?

Two

> ways; decreasing (but not eliminating!) omega-6 fats such as meat

fat

> and hydrogenated vegetable oils and increasing food choices of

> omega-3-rich foods. "

>

> You DEFINITELY want to *eliminate* from your diet all hydrogenated

> fats. They have been shown to double the rate of heart attacks. As

> far as getting the right ratios of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids, if

> somehow you have determined that you are not getting the right

ratios

> of these fatty acids, you would be better off by supplementing with

> fish oil or flaxseed oil as noted in the reference rather than by

> consuming a margarine that may add a lot of undesirable components

to

> your diet.

>

> Tony

>

> >>>

> From: " Pat Conway " <YGroupie@v...>

> Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:44 am

> Subject: Re: A Couple of Newbie Questions

>

> I am new to this list and read with interest the numbers presented

Aug

> 20 re: Smart Balance (a use of the Patent Office data base I'd have

> never thought of). I'm afraid, though, a lot of the chemical

> names/stats went right over my head. Maybe somone can clear up one

> point for me: Since there are a number of references on the net

(like

> http://tinyurl.com/3ngdd ) which suggest that our current diet is

> overloaded with Omega 6, so I was wondering if we shouldn't try to

> find margarines which have a better ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 than

> the 3.1/1 which Smart Balance provides. And, if that's true, what

> would be a good candidate?

>

> Thanks a lot for your help.

>

[Guest guest]

Trish,

One more thing about omega6:omega3 ratios.

A 3:1 ratio of omega6:omega3 corresponds to the ratio found in beef

fat (tallow). When comparing products, do not look only at the ratios

of the ingredients, look also at the percentage of the the total

amount that they represent.

Beef tallow, has a 3:1 ratio of omega6:omega3, but the omega3 only

constitutes 1% of the total weight. 14 grams of beef tallow would

only have 0.14 grams of omega3 fatty acids (ALA).

Soybean oil which has a 8:1 ratio of omega6:omega3 contains 7% ALA.

The same 14 grams of soybean oil would have almost 1 gram of ALA.

You would get more ALA from the same quantity of soybean oil than from

beef tallow, although beef tallow has a smaller omega6:omega3 ratio.

Tony

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your clarifications, Tony. I think I now understand

where you're coming from - questioning the impact of a mere pat of

butter.

FYI - in just researching this some more, I did come upon another

reference ( http://tinyurl.com/5zwnm ) which gives specific

omega-6/omega-3 ratios which were found to mitigate against certain

diseases. E.g.,

**secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease: a ratio of 4/1

**Reduced rectal cell proliferation in colorectal cancer: 2.5/1

**Suppressing rheumatoid arthritis inflammation: 2-3/1

Thanks again,

Trish

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

The pdf, which is available, presented data and found that the ratio

of omega-6/-3 was 1.9 in Iceland versus an average of 4.7 in the

other four Nordic countries.

Icelandic dairy cows are fed fish-meal and are pasture-raised more

frequently than in the other four Nordic countries. With respect to

the lower diabetes in men in Iceland, the fish meal may be more

relevant than the pasture feeding of the dairy cows. For women, the

presence of lower heart disease could be even more affected by fish-

meal diets than pasture land diets of the dairy cattle used to

provide the milk of Icelanders.

Are the fats in milk a reliable indication of those in the meat of

animals raised in the same conditions? Some here consume meats of

pasture-fed animals. Maybe have fish meal fed animals would be more

important?

Prev Med. 2004 Sep;39(3):630-4.

Omega-3 fatty acid supply from milk associates with lower type 2

diabetes in men

and coronary heart disease in women.

Thorsdottir I, Hill J, Ramel A.

... The omega-3 fatty

acids content was higher and omega-6 fatty acid content was lower in

Icelandic

milk when compared with milk from other Nordic countries. Type 2

diabetes

prevalence in men correlated inversely with the supply of omega-3

fatty acids

and eicosapentaenic acid, but positively with omega-6/omega-3 ratio

in milk. CHD

mortality in women correlated inversely with the supply of

eicosapentaenic acid

but positively with the omega-6/omega-3 ratio. Conclusions. Milk

fatty acids

content can depend upon the origin of the milk. The higher supply of

omega-3

fatty acids from milk might explain the lower type 2 diabetes

prevalence and CHD

mortality in Iceland compared to the other Nordic countries.

PMID: 15313105 [PubMed - in process]

Cheers, Alan Pater