Re: Caloric Intake Cycles

[Guest guest]

Just to clarify, I recall Lee saying he would delay until 6PM to get his BG down. As long as it was high he wouldn't eat. He might be eating 100 kcals now at 6AM, but I understand what you're trying.

I don't like to eat my big meal after 6 PM simply because I want to stop any acid reflux. I never have that now eating the big meal at noon. It may also be the reduced calories.

MY H-B ( benedict eq) BMR is 1570 + 200 base activity = 1770 for 175#. If I eat 1000 kcals /day, I would lose 2.4 # per day, mostly water. In 5 days I'd lose 12 # and supposing I made the calories back up on the weekend, I would gain that back. Just looking at the weight fluctuation, I question if that amount of weight fluctuation is good.

Typically in a day I lose and make back up 4 - 5 #. Maybe your plan would result in drinking more water to hold weight? But maybe, it would result in less water "retention" over time. IMO, a good thing. There was one comment about the fat cells holding water after losing the fat in the cell -taking a while to shrink.

No article.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:35 AM

Subject: [ ] Caloric Intake Cycles

Hi folks:Further to Lee Shurie's suggestion to delay eating until 6 pm: this really does seem, tentatively, to have some very interesting and helpful implications, suggesting an excellent way to reconcile caloric restriction with some QOL issues. (As I said, tentative for now, subject to change in the light of further experience).The particular QOL issue here is that I enjoy 'pigging out' from time to time on healthy food. For example, I like to make the occasional visit to an excellent local all-you-can-eat chinese food establishment. Also, I have noticed that I often find I consume a large number of calories on Friday evenings, and on Saturdays as well. It is something I have found enjoyable over the years and would like to continue, if possible, while complying with a CR diet. 'Shurie's Solution' looks to be the key to how to do it. Here it is. Let's say I want to consume 1500 calories a day when established on CRON (this can be adapted to whatever you choose to be your personal caloric intake, I still do not know what mine will be). An intake of 1500 per day is 10,500 per week. Now suppose I can successfully adopt 'Shurie's Solution' and not eat prior to 6 pm. If so, then how many calories of healthy, nutrient-dense food do I find I want to eat between 6 pm and bedtime? For me 1000 calories is more than plenty in that five hour period. So let's assume that Monday through Thursday I eat 1000 calories a day, all of it after 6 pm, and do not eat on Friday until 6 pm also. This means that from Monday 12:01 am to Friday 5:59 pm I will have consumed about 4,000 calories. So, for the remainder of the week - 6:00 pm Friday to 11:59 pm Sunday - I can consume 6,500 calories and still hit my weekly caloric intake objective of 10,500.Each of us can choose how to allocate those calories. My choice might be to really pig out Friday evening and eat double the 1000 calories I would normally eat on a weekday evening. Then eat a huge 3000 on Saturday (sometimes at the Chinese restaurant) and another 1500 on Sunday.So my typical daily caloric intake cycle might look as follows:(please excuse the added markers designed to try to force the thing to format properly):Mon -- Tue -- Wed -- Thu -- Fri -- Sat -- Sun------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------1000 - 1000 - 1000 - 1000 - 2000 - 3000 - 1500I suppose there are three issues related to this:1. Can I abstain from eating, most days of the week, until 6 pm?2. Are there any known risks associated with eating only once a day at 6 pm?3. Are there any nutrient deficiencies that could be a problem in as few as five days of 1000 calorie intake (I doubt it, but am interested to hear opposing views.) If there are it might be necessary to supplement those nutrients daily. It is Lee's suggestion to refrain from eating until 6 pm that is the critical component to the puzzle here.Rodney.

[Guest guest]

I also was intrigued by Lee's program of mealtimes, and a few

days ago I thought I'd try it. The first two days were easy in that I

managed to keep myself busy and felt quite energetic. On the

third day I was feeling quite hungry by 3PM so decided to start

cooking anticipating a 4 PM meal. I ate 'off and on' for the next

few hrs but only one food type at each meal. The next day I

started eating at 4 PM and that seems to be the time for my first

meal. I dont miss the breakfast or lunch at all. This is just th first

week but I think it's going to work for me. I already informed my

youngest son of my eating practice as I'll be returning to the US

and living with him for a while. I just wanted to prepare him for

another of his mom's weird practices.

On another note: I had been taking Lipomol - an anti cholesterol

med - for about a year but decided to stop the medication. I'd

read some of the controversial lit on muscle probs. Anyway the

outcome has been that I no longer have an 'achey' hip/leg and

arm. It was just on one side but has disappeared since I quit the

Lipomol. From now on I figure my cholest has to be controlled by

diet alone.

Canary Peg

PS Re Lee's type 2 diabetes. The diabetic diet is said to be

excellent for every one eh.

> Hi folks:

>

> Further to Lee Shurie's suggestion to delay eating until 6 pm:

this

> really does seem, tentatively, to have some very interesting and

> helpful implications, suggesting an excellent way to reconcile

> caloric restriction with some QOL issues. (As I said, tentative

for

> now, subject to change in the light of further experience).

>

> The particular QOL issue here is that I enjoy 'pigging out' from

time

> to time on healthy food. For example, I like to make the

occasional

> visit to an excellent local all-you-can-eat chinese food

> establishment. Also, I have noticed that I often find I consume

a

> large number of calories on Friday evenings, and on Saturdays

as

> well. It is something I have found enjoyable over the years and

> would like to continue, if possible, while complying with a CR

diet.

>

> 'Shurie's Solution' looks to be the key to how to do it. Here it

> is. Let's say I want to consume 1500 calories a day when

established

> on CRON (this can be adapted to whatever you choose to be

your

> personal caloric intake, I still do not know what mine will be).

An

> intake of 1500 per day is 10,500 per week.

>

> Now suppose I can successfully adopt 'Shurie's Solution' and

not eat

> prior to 6 pm. If so, then how many calories of healthy, nutrient-

> dense food do I find I want to eat between 6 pm and bedtime?

For me

> 1000 calories is more than plenty in that five hour period. So

let's

> assume that Monday through Thursday I eat 1000 calories a

day, all of

> it after 6 pm, and do not eat on Friday until 6 pm also.

>

> This means that from Monday 12:01 am to Friday 5:59 pm I will

have

> consumed about 4,000 calories. So, for the remainder of the

week -

> 6:00 pm Friday to 11:59 pm Sunday - I can consume 6,500

calories and

> still hit my weekly caloric intake objective of 10,500.

>

> Each of us can choose how to allocate those calories. My

choice

> might be to really pig out Friday evening and eat double the

1000

> calories I would normally eat on a weekday evening. Then eat

a huge

> 3000 on Saturday (sometimes at the Chinese restaurant) and

another

> 1500 on Sunday.

>

> So my typical daily caloric intake cycle might look as follows:

> (please excuse the added markers designed to try to force the

thing

> to format properly):

>

> Mon -- Tue -- Wed -- Thu -- Fri -- Sat -- Sun

> ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------

> 1000 - 1000 - 1000 - 1000 - 2000 - 3000 - 1500

>

> I suppose there are three issues related to this:

>

> 1. Can I abstain from eating, most days of the week, until 6

pm?

>

> 2. Are there any known risks associated with eating only once

a day

> at 6 pm?

>

> 3. Are there any nutrient deficiencies that could be a problem

in as

> few as five days of 1000 calorie intake (I doubt it, but am

> interested to hear opposing views.) If there are it might be

> necessary to supplement those nutrients daily.

>

> It is Lee's suggestion to refrain from eating until 6 pm that is

the

> critical component to the puzzle here.

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Just to clarify, which diabetic diet?

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: Peg Diamond

Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:06 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Caloric Intake Cycles

I also was intrigued by Lee's program of mealtimes, and a few days ago I thought I'd try it. The first two days were easy in that I managed to keep myself busy and felt quite energetic. On the third day I was feeling quite hungry by 3PM so decided to start cooking anticipating a 4 PM meal. I ate 'off and on' for the next few hrs but only one food type at each meal. The next day I started eating at 4 PM and that seems to be the time for my first meal. I dont miss the breakfast or lunch at all. This is just th first week but I think it's going to work for me. I already informed my youngest son of my eating practice as I'll be returning to the US and living with him for a while. I just wanted to prepare him for another of his mom's weird practices. On another note: I had been taking Lipomol - an anti cholesterol med - for about a year but decided to stop the medication. I'd read some of the controversial lit on muscle probs. Anyway the outcome has been that I no longer have an 'achey' hip/leg and arm. It was just on one side but has disappeared since I quit the Lipomol. From now on I figure my cholest has to be controlled by diet alone.Canary PegPS Re Lee's type 2 diabetes. The diabetic diet is said to be excellent for every one eh.

[Guest guest]

JW this is something I've picked up on in the past few years. My

husband was diabetic and when we consulted a dietician were

made aware that his diet would be excellent for me also. I've

also seen this stated in other medical info. Are you asking me to

quote ?

Canary Peg.

> Just to clarify, which diabetic diet?

>

> Regards

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Peg Diamond

>

> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:06 AM

> Subject: [ ] Re: Caloric Intake Cycles

>

>

> I also was intrigued by Lee's program of mealtimes, and a

few

> days ago I thought I'd try it. The first two days were easy in

that I

> managed to keep myself busy and felt quite energetic. On the

> third day I was feeling quite hungry by 3PM so decided to start

> cooking anticipating a 4 PM meal. I ate 'off and on' for the next

> few hrs but only one food type at each meal. The next day I

> started eating at 4 PM and that seems to be the time for my

first

> meal. I dont miss the breakfast or lunch at all. This is just th

first

> week but I think it's going to work for me. I already informed

my

> youngest son of my eating practice as I'll be returning to the

US

> and living with him for a while. I just wanted to prepare him

for

> another of his mom's weird practices.

>

> On another note: I had been taking Lipomol - an anti

cholesterol

> med - for about a year but decided to stop the medication. I'd

> read some of the controversial lit on muscle probs. Anyway

the

> outcome has been that I no longer have an 'achey' hip/leg and

> arm. It was just on one side but has disappeared since I quit

the

> Lipomol. From now on I figure my cholest has to be controlled

by

> diet alone.

>

> Canary Peg

>

> PS Re Lee's type 2 diabetes. The diabetic diet is said to be

> excellent for every one eh.

[Guest guest]

Yes. There seems to be no concensus on a good diabetic diet (at least in the U.S.).

I was just wondering what you thought was a good diet.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Peg Diamond

Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:32 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Caloric Intake Cycles

JW this is something I've picked up on in the past few years. My husband was diabetic and when we consulted a dietician were made aware that his diet would be excellent for me also. I've also seen this stated in other medical info. Are you asking me to quote ?Canary Peg.> Just to clarify, which diabetic diet?> > Regards> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peg Diamond > > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:06 AM> Subject: [ ] Re: Caloric Intake Cycles> > > I also was intrigued by Lee's program of mealtimes, and a few > days ago I thought I'd try it. The first two days were easy in that I > managed to keep myself busy and felt quite energetic. On the > third day I was feeling quite hungry by 3PM so decided to start > cooking anticipating a 4 PM meal. I ate 'off and on' for the next > few hrs but only one food type at each meal. The next day I > started eating at 4 PM and that seems to be the time for my first > meal. I dont miss the breakfast or lunch at all. This is just th first > week but I think it's going to work for me. I already informed my > youngest son of my eating practice as I'll be returning to the US > and living with him for a while. I just wanted to prepare him for > another of his mom's weird practices. > > On another note: I had been taking Lipomol - an anti cholesterol > med - for about a year but decided to stop the medication. I'd > read some of the controversial lit on muscle probs. Anyway the > outcome has been that I no longer have an 'achey' hip/leg and > arm. It was just on one side but has disappeared since I quit the > Lipomol. From now on I figure my cholest has to be controlled by > diet alone.> > Canary Peg> > PS Re Lee's type 2 diabetes. The diabetic diet is said to be > excellent for every one eh.

[Guest guest]

Despite all the advantages, I would be seriously

concerned about the bioavailability of nutrients in a one meal a day

plan. For example you got your fiber combining with the

fat possibly reducing the minerals. There are so many combinations that

prevent absorbtion of one or more nutrient even if your meal contains adequate

nutrition I question if it is all going to be absorbed in one

setting. You might be creating a deficiency despite your best

efforts?

-------- Original Message --------Subject:

[ ] Caloric Intake CyclesFrom: "Rodney" perspect1111@...3.

Are there any nutrient deficiencies that could be a problem in as

few as five days of 1000 calorie intake (I doubt it, but am

interested to hear opposing views.) If there are it might be

necessary to supplement those nutrients

daily.

[Guest guest]

JW,

I'm trying to incorporate the info I get here on this list. It's quite a

job as there doesn't seem to be too much concensus on articles

I read. Then I use 'Fit Day' to enter my eating for the day. I'm still

not sure of the ratio of Protein/Carbs/Fat that is optimal. I guess it

depends on many factors such as how physically active one is

and for me that would probably be the main decider. In the

beginning I was consuming lots of almonds which made my

'fats' column look way out of proportion so I've cut back there.

Also I am considering the G.I and more importantly the G.L.

when buying foods.This has meant an emphasis on more

veggies. My intake varies between 1200 and 1400 calories but I

think that's OK considering my age and the need for gradual

reduction. I haven't noticed much of a weght loss at this time -

just 3 kilos.

Another factor I have to consider is how well I metabolize my

foods. I've a feeling that once I get back to the US I'll want to have

some tests done - including the '' for allergies. It's amazing

how much I have learned by being on this list and all quite

recently.

Canary Peg.

> Yes. There seems to be no concensus on a good diabetic diet

(at least in the U.S.).

> I was just wondering what you thought was a good diet.

>

> Regards.

[Guest guest]

1. It sounds suspiciously like a yo-yo diet and that you want to

rationalize pigging out for a huge serotonin release. I don't recall

if you have excess body fat, but this is not exactly the optimal way

of dieting, perhaps unless you're maintaining a clear and big calorie

deficit on a weekly basis below your BMR. I read somewhere that

it's " good " to have a weekly cheat day to fool your body into

thinking its not starving, but that could very well be anti-thesis to

CRON.

2. The worst thing you can have is elevated blood glucose or insulin

in the nighttime hours (post 6PM), especially during sleep, if you

want to lose body fat. The levels may not be back to the optimal

range by morning (note that Lee's BG is not in the optimal range at

all so it's still a problem in my book), hence perpetuating the

method of why you have to wait until 6PM to eat. I would think

taking metformin or aminoguaridine and eating low-insulinic foods

ought to be much, much easier and they have life extension benefits

as well.

From your your other post on post-prandial sleepiness, it seems to be

like 1) you're insulin-resistant [syndrome-X or Type II] and/or 2)

you need to take digestive enzymes with your cooked food because your

pancreas is no longer producing enough (it has a limited lifetime

supply like sperm/eggs, excaberated by eating cooked food).

Digestion is the most energy expensive activity in the body.

3. If you meet at least the RDA on 1000 calories a day without

relying on a (preferably whole food) multi-vitamin, I'd be truly

amazed. :-)

Logan

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> I suppose there are three issues related to this:

>

> 1. Can I abstain from eating, most days of the week, until 6 pm?

>

> 2. Are there any known risks associated with eating only once a

day

> at 6 pm?

>

> 3. Are there any nutrient deficiencies that could be a problem in

as

> few as five days of 1000 calorie intake (I doubt it, but am

> interested to hear opposing views.) If there are it might be

> necessary to supplement those nutrients daily.

[Guest guest]

Good luck Peg!

It's interesting to hear your experience.

Best,

Lee

-----Original Message-----From: Peg Diamond [mailto:pegdiamond@...]Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 8:07 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Caloric Intake CyclesI also was intrigued by Lee's program of mealtimes, and a few days ago I thought I'd try it. The first two days were easy in that I managed to keep myself busy and felt quite energetic. On the third day I was feeling quite hungry by 3PM so decided to start cooking anticipating a 4 PM meal. I ate 'off and on' for the next few hrs but only one food type at each meal. The next day I started eating at 4 PM and that seems to be the time for my first meal. I dont miss the breakfast or lunch at all. This is just th first week but I think it's going to work for me. I already informed my youngest son of my eating practice as I'll be returning to the US and living with him for a while. I just wanted to prepare him for another of his mom's weird practices. On another note: I had been taking Lipomol - an anti cholesterol med - for about a year but decided to stop the medication. I'd read some of the controversial lit on muscle probs. Anyway the outcome has been that I no longer have an 'achey' hip/leg and arm. It was just on one side but has disappeared since I quit the Lipomol. From now on I figure my cholest has to be controlled by diet alone.Canary PegPS Re Lee's type 2 diabetes. The diabetic diet is said to be excellent for every one eh. > Hi folks:> > Further to Lee Shurie's suggestion to delay eating until 6 pm: this > really does seem, tentatively, to have some very interesting and > helpful implications, suggesting an excellent way to reconcile > caloric restriction with some QOL issues. (As I said, tentative for > now, subject to change in the light of further experience).> > The particular QOL issue here is that I enjoy 'pigging out' from time > to time on healthy food. For example, I like to make the occasional > visit to an excellent local all-you-can-eat chinese food > establishment. Also, I have noticed that I often find I consume a > large number of calories on Friday evenings, and on Saturdays as > well. It is something I have found enjoyable over the years and > would like to continue, if possible, while complying with a CR diet. > > 'Shurie's Solution' looks to be the key to how to do it. Here it > is. Let's say I want to consume 1500 calories a day when established > on CRON (this can be adapted to whatever you choose to be your > personal caloric intake, I still do not know what mine will be). An > intake of 1500 per day is 10,500 per week. > > Now suppose I can successfully adopt 'Shurie's Solution' and not eat > prior to 6 pm. If so, then how many calories of healthy, nutrient-> dense food do I find I want to eat between 6 pm and bedtime? For me > 1000 calories is more than plenty in that five hour period. So let's > assume that Monday through Thursday I eat 1000 calories a day, all of > it after 6 pm, and do not eat on Friday until 6 pm also. > > This means that from Monday 12:01 am to Friday 5:59 pm I will have > consumed about 4,000 calories. So, for the remainder of the week - > 6:00 pm Friday to 11:59 pm Sunday - I can consume 6,500 calories and > still hit my weekly caloric intake objective of 10,500.> > Each of us can choose how to allocate those calories. My choice > might be to really pig out Friday evening and eat double the 1000 > calories I would normally eat on a weekday evening. Then eat a huge > 3000 on Saturday (sometimes at the Chinese restaurant) and another > 1500 on Sunday.> > So my typical daily caloric intake cycle might look as follows:> (please excuse the added markers designed to try to force the thing > to format properly):> > Mon -- Tue -- Wed -- Thu -- Fri -- Sat -- Sun> ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------> 1000 - 1000 - 1000 - 1000 - 2000 - 3000 - 1500> > I suppose there are three issues related to this:> > 1. Can I abstain from eating, most days of the week, until 6 pm?> > 2. Are there any known risks associated with eating only once a day > at 6 pm?> > 3. Are there any nutrient deficiencies that could be a problem in as > few as five days of 1000 calorie intake (I doubt it, but am > interested to hear opposing views.) If there are it might be > necessary to supplement those nutrients daily. > > It is Lee's suggestion to refrain from eating until 6 pm that is the > critical component to the puzzle here.> > Rodney.