Re: Re: Fat as Proportion of Weight Lost

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney ~

Thanks for the input. Your point touches on a question I had for my trainer. When he computed my percentage of body fat, he used measurements taken with calipers at various points around my body. I asked him if he knew how the results he obtained might compare with the water-tank (hydro-something-or-other) method that is the most accurate. He replied that he did not know. My guess is that the differece between the subjects in the studies you quote (7%) and my current level (11%) may be attributable to the method used to measure. In any event, it did not seem to matter because the same trainer will use the same method each time he measures me, allowing an apples-to-apples comparison.

You can be sure that I will continue working on getting it down!

Mark

-------------- Original message -------------- Hi Mark:One additional point. The 17 subjects of the WUSTL study had BF%s of 7% I seem to remember. Yet none of them reported having to resort to 'special effects' in order to get down there. It seems all they had to do was restrict their calories, with ON, and wait for the fat to drop. Not that I know anything about your situation, but why would you be different from the WUSTL subjects?Or is there reason to suppose they had to do more than simply a CRON diet?Rodney.> Having just had my semi-annual measurement session, this is a subject I have to comment on. First some background: when I began CR (November, '02) I weighed 157. For Christmas that year, my wife gave me five sessions with her personal trainer. I've been working with him since January '03, regularly twice per week.> > The first time he measured my body fat was July '03. At that time, my bf percentage was 18.3% (my weight was 146. Lost 11 pounds in eight months, from start.) Six months later (January 04), when measured again, my body fat was down to 13.1% and my weight was 135. Steady progress. Most recently (July '04) my weight had plateaued, staying at 135 but my body fat was down to 11.1%. > > I was somewhat disappointed that my body fat percentage had not gone down more, given the twice weekly workouts (strength training w/ free weights & machines). I also do cardio (walking and/or jogging) 2-3 times per week. This prompted a long discussion with my trainer. He pointed out, correctly, that it was much more difficult to lose fat when there is less fat to lose. Put another way, as the total amount of body fat is reduced, any weight lost will be more lean body mass simply because there is less fat to lose.> > His advice to me, if I wanted to get my percentage of body fat even lower, was to do what body builders do, which is to "bulk up" then "lean down." This would mean gaining a few pounds by eating more, then strictly controlling my diet to lose the weight gained while keeping the increased muscle. The weight lost in this process would be a higher percentage of fat than simply losing more weight from my present level. I told him, frankly, that eating more and gaining weight was out of the question.> > We compromised. He recommended that I add a protein shake daily to increase my total protein intake while maintaining my present CRON diet. I accepted this solution, and dutifully trotted off to GNC and purchased a canister of whey protein powder. (I chose the chocolate flavor, in light of recent discussions about being able to tolerate the flavor of whey drinks. No problem with the taste.) The daily shake is 120 calories, but provides 23 grams of protein. > > I will closely continue to monitor my weight, to insure that it does not increase. I won't know for six months whether my percentage of body fat has gone down, replaced by increased lean body mass (muscle). Meanwhile, all I have to go on is watching the amount of weight I lift increase. This is a crude indication of increased muscle mass, as "strength" can come from increased muscle efficiency as well as increased muscle mass. Either way, it is a kick to be able to press more than my body ways! Pretty cool for a 52 year old man!> > Sorry for the long winded response.> > Mark> > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi folks:> > Further to this issue, it occurs to me that this can be calculated > (maybe) from the WUSTL data. Unfortunately, they do not give weight > and BF% for the subjects for both pre-CR and at established CR weight.> > But they do give data for the subjects at CR weight and for the > controls, who are supposed to represent pre-CR. If the controls are > a good sample, representative of the CR subjects before they started > CR, then we can calculate what proportion of the weight that was lost > by the WUSTL CR subjects was fat (and how much was LBM).> > The number based on those data is that 66% was fat; 34% LBM. Since > it seems I have lost about 80% fat so far, this does suggest the > proportion of fat lost will decline as fat reserves decline, as Tony > had suggested. I will have a reasonably decent number for myself > when I eventually get down to established CR weight, which likely > will not be for another twelve months.> > The number for 'percentage of weight lost that is fat' is important > if one wishes to figure out ahead of time what one's weight will be > at whatever body fat number one is aiming for. (It cannot be > calculated without it). In my case, using the 66% number, after > starting at what I used to believe was my ideal weight of 172 pounds > (WC/H = 0.50; BF% = 20.4) ............. at 10% body fat I will > weigh ~139 pounds; and at 7% BF about 132 pounds. Difficult to > believe. I haven't weighed that much since I was 14!> > Rodney.> > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tony! While I always considered myself to be one, it is nice to have "official" certification that I am an athlete! On the other hand, after watching the gymnasts and swimmers at the Olympics the past few nights, I know I am not in their category! Gives me motivation.

Mark

-------------- Original message -------------- >>>> The first time he measured my body fat was July '03. At that time,my bf percentage was 18.3% (my weight was 146. Lost 11 pounds ineight months, from start.) Six months later (January 04), whenmeasured again, my body fat was down to 13.1% and my weight was 135.Steady progress. Most recently (July '04) my weight had plateaued,staying at 135 but my body fat was down to 11.1%.> I was somewhat disappointed that my body fat percentage had notgone down more,>>>Congratulations! You are now in the "athlete" body fat class.The American Council on Exercise uses the following categories basedon percentage of body fat:. . . . . . . . . . Women MenEssential fat . . . 10-12% 2-4%Athletes. . . . . . 14-20% 6-13%Fitness . . . . . . 21-24% 14-17%Acceptable . . . . .25-31% 18-25%Obese. . . . . 32% or more 26% or moreTo protect your brain and nerves, I don't think that you want to getdown to only your "essential fat". Also, in the study by Masoro,below (p 4240), it mentions that rats fed ad libitum averaged 15% bodyfat, whereas the 40% CR rats averaged 10% body fat. From the numbers,it looks like you are at the level of a 40% CR rat, if the percent ofbody fat for rats can be compared to humans.You can probably build more muscle by adding protein and some EFA's,but your calorie consumption is going to go up. However, that is notas bad as you might imagine, because rats that are 40% calorierestricted also eat more calories per body weight than rats fedad-libitum. (this is also in the Masoro paper).Tony====E J Masoro, et al, "Action of food restriction indelaying the aging process"Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1982 July; 79 (13):4239–4241(http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=346614)