Re: Plea for New RDA for Vitamin C

[Guest guest]

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> I have to ask why I need a higher vit c concentration. Why MUST the

> RDA be raised? Every time I look at this I fail to be convinced,

> maybe because vit c gives me mouth sores using a 200 mg supplement.

I can think of several compelling reasons:

1. The large disconnect between the massive quantities of ascorbate

produced endogenously in mammals who haven't lost the ability to do

so (99.95%) and the very low quantities in available in food to

humans. A genetic mutation is a very fundamental event in terms of

etiology.

2. The correlation between ascorbate intake, endothelial dysfunction

and thrombosis formation (i.e. CVD, CHD, et al.) likely due to

ascorbate's supercritical role in collagen synthesis and repair.

[PMID: 12074599, PMID: 11444422, PMID: 9667240, PMID: 8821982, PMID:

2147514].

3. The necessity of ascorbyl palmitate [PMID: 12445183, PMID:

10769642] to co-function with amino acids L-lysine & L-proline

[building blocks of collagen and elastin fibers] and EGCG from green

tea [PMID: 10719174] to inhibit cancer from metastatizing across

tissue. Cancer is likely to be the #1 problem for life-extensionists.

4. Given ascorbate's increasing role in anti-aging skin care, I don't

think it's farfetched to look at all the older people with skin

wrinkling and anecdotally determine they're suffering chronic

ascorbate defenciency. Notice how the better looking people (i.e.

most celebrities before plastic surgery) generally eat relatively

healthier diets which contain relatively more ascorbate. Maybe it

won't offset collagen crosslinking, maybe it will.

5. As for your mouth sores, it sounds like you were taking isolated,

synthetic ascorbate which is very acidic and poorly bioutilized, but

is the form used in the mainstream studies. That's one reason why

the half-life is so terribly short. Plus, serum levels alone don't

necessarily indicate optimal bioutilization by the organs or

intracellularly.

The big problem right now with trying to get large quantities of

ascorbate in its matrixed natural form with bonded protein carriers,

co-factors, et al. is the lack of economical concentrated food or

supplements. The best I've come across so far is a 4:1 powder

extract of acerola cherry which only provides a measly 180mg per

teaspoon. Perhaps ascorbyl palmitate powder alone or in mixture

thereof is more practical.

Logan

[Guest guest]

> > I have to ask why I need a higher vit c concentration. Why MUST

the

> > RDA be raised? Every time I look at this I fail to be convinced,

> > maybe because vit c gives me mouth sores using a 200 mg

supplement.

>

> I can think of several compelling reasons

...

Hi All,

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/2/1/7

suggests the reasonable course of action that I

take of not exceeding the RDA of supplemental

vitamin C.

Vitamin C (mg) 1187% of RDA was my latest analysis

of my intake.

Cheers, Al.

[Guest guest]

>>>and the very low quantities in available in food to humans.

I am not sure what " food " you are talking about.

Without even trying, I can easily get about 7-10x the RDA in whole foods

at a CR level. And someone just posted they got 11-12x the RDA.

So, while I may agree that the " stuff " most people eat is nutrient

deficient, I am not sure it is what I would call " food " .

The answer is to have them eat more nutrient dense whole foods and not

just to supplement.

Jeff

[Guest guest]

All food is relatively inadequate in ascorbate compared to general

endogenous production in animals (184.2 mg/kg/day).

Even a range of 7x-12x the RDA acquired solely through extreme

vegetarian diets only match the endogenous production of a snake or a

tortoise. It doesn't look to be a strict linear relationship between

higher life forms and increased endogenous ascorbate, but we're

certainly not reptiles!

A mere 76 years since the discovery of ascorbate can't compete with

45 million years, but the continual prejudice against our requirement

for large amounts of ascorbate is still absurd. Some consolation:

" Mutations, induced by free radicals, provide a rich molecular

palette that other evolutionary forces can select for or against. A

recent hypothesis proposed that large numbers of free radicals were

produced when, millions of years ago, Anthropoidea lost the ability

to produce endogenous ascorbate, increasing the frequency of

mutations and accelerating the evolution of higher primates.

Recognizing that retroviruses have been active throughout the period

of primate evolution, we suggest that an endogenous retrovirus or

other retroviral-like element may have been involved in mutating the

gene coding for gulonolactone oxidase (GLO), the terminal step in

ascorbate synthesis, approximately 45 million years ago. This

possibility is supported by the presence of Alu elements (a common

primate retroelement) adjacent to the site of a missing segment of

the nonfunctional GLO gene. Although Homo sapiens and other higher

primates produce other endogenous antioxidants, including superoxide

dismutase and uric acid, they do not quench the same radicals as

ascorbate and cannot fully compensate for a lack of endogenous

ascorbate. As a consequence, a retrovirus may have played a pivotal

role in primate and H. sapiens evolution, and the absence of

endogenous ascorbate may be continuing to accelerate the rate of H.

sapiens and primate evolution. " [PMID: 9655531]

Logan

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> I am not sure what " food " you are talking about.

>

> Without even trying, I can easily get about 7-10x the RDA in whole

foods

> at a CR level. And someone just posted they got 11-12x the RDA.